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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
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Please Fix Cooking you need a forest to make a sandwich
KrystalKitten
Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
So in the recent update some Apprentice skills needed 2x the materials to make some things, and I know some of my Apprentice friends who are complaining that you need 40 trees to make something that took 20 trees...but really....that's nothing when you need to deforest willows to make a sandwich..
For those that don't know cooking, its complex and honestly fun...but with changing something now its a nightmare..
here we go.
To make 1 Beef Steak Sandwich you need 2 Grilled Beef Steaks, 1 Bread which doesn't sound like much....BUT
To make 1 Bread you need 2 Doughs
To make 1 Dough you need 2 Flours (starting to get the picture?)
To make 1 Flour you need 2 Wheat
To make 1 Wheat you need 2 Weeping Willow Mulch
To make 1 Weeping Willow Mulch you need 2 Weeping willow Woodchips
To make 1 Weeping Willow Woodchips you need 2 Weeping Willow
so if you do the math 1 Sandwich takes 64 trees.....so a stack of 250 sandwiches is....16,000 Trees
"But Kala you PsycoMathChef on a spreadsheet (I see you Margret-Senpai) what about the rest" you ask and to you i say "AWWWWW Thank You *blush*" (SENPAI NOTICED ME!!! *DIES*)
Glad you asked
with how beef is 5 beef per cow you only need 1 cow carcass per sandwich or about 200 Carcasses for 250 steaks because you need 1000 Beef for 500 Grilled Beef Steaks for the 250 sandwiches...
So a spreadsheet later for 250 Sandwiches you need
250 Salt
500 Pepper, Daffodil, Snowdrops
2,000 Wheat Seeds
4,000 Droppings
4,400 Baby cow, Water, Hay
16,000 Weeping Willow
I hope you like your Sandwiches cause its gonna cost about a 1 Gold each to craft and this is an Apprentice Recipe (and yes i have mapped out Journeyman cooking already)
oh and since Cooking is a process...this all has to be the same rarity so kiss anything but common food goodbye
~Kala, Head Chef of the Legendary Two Tailed Fox Inn
For those that don't know cooking, its complex and honestly fun...but with changing something now its a nightmare..
here we go.
To make 1 Beef Steak Sandwich you need 2 Grilled Beef Steaks, 1 Bread which doesn't sound like much....BUT
To make 1 Bread you need 2 Doughs
To make 1 Dough you need 2 Flours (starting to get the picture?)
To make 1 Flour you need 2 Wheat
To make 1 Wheat you need 2 Weeping Willow Mulch
To make 1 Weeping Willow Mulch you need 2 Weeping willow Woodchips
To make 1 Weeping Willow Woodchips you need 2 Weeping Willow
so if you do the math 1 Sandwich takes 64 trees.....so a stack of 250 sandwiches is....16,000 Trees
"But Kala you PsycoMathChef on a spreadsheet (I see you Margret-Senpai) what about the rest" you ask and to you i say "AWWWWW Thank You *blush*" (SENPAI NOTICED ME!!! *DIES*)
Glad you asked
with how beef is 5 beef per cow you only need 1 cow carcass per sandwich or about 200 Carcasses for 250 steaks because you need 1000 Beef for 500 Grilled Beef Steaks for the 250 sandwiches...
So a spreadsheet later for 250 Sandwiches you need
250 Salt
500 Pepper, Daffodil, Snowdrops
2,000 Wheat Seeds
4,000 Droppings
4,400 Baby cow, Water, Hay
16,000 Weeping Willow
I hope you like your Sandwiches cause its gonna cost about a 1 Gold each to craft and this is an Apprentice Recipe (and yes i have mapped out Journeyman cooking already)
oh and since Cooking is a process...this all has to be the same rarity so kiss anything but common food goodbye
~Kala, Head Chef of the Legendary Two Tailed Fox Inn
4
Comments
This is fine up until the farming, and nothing has been said about that part because it was simply assumed that this was more in line with the 'we need a way to make people actually care about rarer trees before furnishings and other stuff come in'.
So if you say 'go make 100 sandwiches', we're expecting to need to gather those 100 Salt, those 200 Pepper and Daffodils, and somewhere around 400 Wheat.
What we aren't currently expecting is that the Wheat phase is crushingly hard outside of 'what farming feels like'. As a processor I personally would also greatly appreciate that if you (the devs) know a food Step-1-processed ingredient is nearly never going to be used 'raw' in singles (think wheat/grapes/processed eggs becoming flour, juice/extract, mayo) that you just don't put the raw ingredient to be '4 in, 4 out' individually and then require multiples of the Step-1.
Basically, if you know all the 'end' uses of wheat will take maybe 5 flour each, just make the processing be putting in 10 wheat and 1 Fuel and take 1 minute to get that 5 flour (if you want to have an alternate method that makes it take long, maybe a free version at the windmill or something).
Simply because taking 10 ingame minutes, which is at LEAST a game-hour if not more, to make just the Flour to start making the sandwich, will result in the BDO outcome for processors. It doesn't need to be as 'short' as TL or 'exactly match Fairyland/FF11/etc', but we would much like it to not be BDO.
As for the Farming aspect, we would definitely prefer to wait to see what is actually implemented in terms of 'fertilizer and similar in->plants out', since we're too used to FFXI's Gardening glory to have any fair assessment of anything current (and probably even anything in the upcoming revamp). But ofc it would be nice, as always, to very roughly know in August if the revamp is also intended roughly toward the direction/state of Farming.
Ofc, we'll just ask again then.
How the economy was arranged before made more sense. Right now players are being asked to go above and beyond what's needed IRL to make a similar product. Also... again actual crafting vs essence shaping a ton of materials, Forged in Fire ha plenty of episodes where there's a bucket of scrap metal the smiths must choose from to work into a competent blade. They aren't using a tree to make the hilt either, just some scrap wood from a different bucket. Almost more like Iron Chef but they're cooking a complete sword. So why in twelve hells does every metal item need to be cast in a mold? That further indicates that there's no trained skill and crafting is just essence shaping. And I never see casts in stone anyway, these days it is all 3d prints cut in half and pressed into red casting sand that is highly reusable, I don't know why a similar technique couldn't be used in Verra.
Oh i can show them my spreadsheet, Journeyman cooking has 20 steps to it, Apprentice has about 10-12 so when they doubled somethings they made more then 5x the price of some recopies. I would be happy to talk to them. about it.
Oh and I figured out a way to kind of fix farming. Like life make it so that not just poop but we can use fish as a base for fertilizer. and instead of all the different kinds of fertilizer, just one....Fertilizer it can be refined from poop and any tree or fish and any tree.
1 Hay, 1 Water, 1 baby cow = 1 adult cow
1 adult cow = 1 glass of milk
1 glass of milk = 1 stick of butter
Make it make sense you need to kill a cow to get 1 glass of milk...but could also turn the same cow into 5 meats.....
The problem, in the end, is that the only thing we know about 'why it is the way that it is now' is that the updated version hasn't been put live yet.
I want to say that we shouldn't be so 'nervous' as players about it, based on that, but we don't know how or why it was put out this way to begin with (I'm guessing just AI + basic Alpha testing, i.e. 'can you even get an adult cow').
In the end, not much we can do but wait until September, but I'll definitely request that you stick around for a while when the next iteration releases, even if it's bad. (I'm just tired of watching games lose their Crafters because they don't realize how 'silently' frustrated the Crafters are).
Well a few times ago Steven said "you can raise a Pig on your Freehold" but PIGS are Journeyman Farming, and no one cares for that so it hasn't even been in the game...so the thing Steven said 100% works you can't even test...and this was MONTHS AGO! how hard would it be to swap the cows and chickens to work so we could actually test this stuff...but noooooo
If you're referring to the Freeholds LiveStream, those LiveStreams have been demonstrated to be moreso 'aspirational' at least relative to 'what we would experience in the Alpha', certainly the Network Testing focused Phase.
If he's said something else since then, I probably just forgot or don't know about it, but I'm moreso saying that this is just how development goes sometimes. Devs often have much less time for things than users can really 'estimate'. Even for my own projects, I 'only have time to make the spreadsheets', I don't actually write most of the code that transforms them into player experience, not because I can't (though that's true for quite a bit of it now), but because it's just an inefficient use of my time since I'm the one who has to focus on the design phase.
It's easily possible that if I transpose two cells in that spreadsheet (let's say Cow and Pig) and I don't realize it, that a test version can go out with that transposition in place and it just 'not be worth anyone's time to change it until the next spreadsheet'.
I'm not saying it would really be 'hard', but a change is a change, and sometimes it gets weird. Plenty of games out there with 'load-bearing errors' in Live, far less Alpha.
Possibly the same problem.
The launch build that was integrated for P2 start had the chickens working, someone in Econ was trying out some stuff in a build that didn't have the Chickens (or wasn't stable enough for integration) and whoever was in charge of build integration fell back a branch to something possibly prior to when Chickens worked, and the main build line just hasn't been set to integrate a different Econ build since then (or grabs a sub-branch without the Chickens active).
Basically I'm saying that there are times when something doesn't seem to make sense from a Design standpoint mostly because it got knocked around from the Development/Integration standpoint.
I think that we should view things that we 'saw working once, but then mysteriously disappeared' as generally being positives, even if only because it proves their ability to implement the things.