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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
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Ashes Terrain Topography and Cohesion
Snekkers
Member, Alpha Two
This forum post is about some issues I see with the current terrain in Ashes of Creation. Some of these problems can probably be fixed later in development, but others need strong foundations from the start. These foundation-level problems are what I will focus on here.
If we look at a screenshot from Crimson Desert, we can clearly see how the terrain builds up in a natural way. Every hill, every valley has a smooth transition. The land slowly rises or drops, and nothing feels out of place. Big elevation changes don’t just appear out of nowhere—they are prepared by smaller slopes or rolling terrain that leads up to them. This kind of buildup makes the world feel more believable and realistic, like something shaped by nature over time, not just placed by a level editor. It also helps with exploration and navigation, because the land has a clear shape and flow that makes sense to the eye.
In contrast, Ashes of Creation flat terrain is often very flat and that also doesn’t feel natural. In the real world, even flat areas usually have small changes in height, gentle slopes, or soft curves. But in Ashes, these flat zones often feel empty and artificial, like a flat sheet stretched between hills. If we look at the screenshots below from Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, we can see how immersive and natural the terrain looks. Even areas that are supposed to be flat have small ups and downs that make them feel alive and believable. I also want to make it clear that I understand Ashes can't match Crimson Desert or Kingdom Come in terms of graphic quality or visual fidelity—that’s not the point here. What I’m focusing on is just the shape and layout of the terrain. It’s not about textures or lighting, but about how the land flows and how natural it feels to move through.
Ashes terrain also lacks any interesting points of interest, especially natural, grand structures like the ones shown in the images below. These kinds of features are very important in open-world games. They catch the player’s eye, make the world feel more alive, and give you a reason to explore. A big cliff, a massive canyon, strange rock formations, or a huge waterfall. Things like that help make the world feel unique and memorable. They also help with navigation and give a sense of direction and scale.
While technically you can add these kinds of structures later in development, if you want them to look authentic and believable, the terrain around them needs to be built up properly. A giant rock arch or mountain peak shouldn’t just sit in the middle of flat land. The landscape should slowly lead up to it, with changes in height and style that match the structure. The environment around it should support it, both visually and in terms of gameplay. That’s why I think it’s much better—and more natural—to design the terrain from the beginning with these structures in mind. That way, the whole area feels like one connected and well-thought-out piece of the world, not just a flat space with a cool rock dropped into it. This approach helps create a truly unique and grand environment that feels crafted, not random.
And yet, many screenshots from Chrono Odyssey still look much better and more visually appealing than those from Ashes of Creation. Why is that? The main reason is cohesion. In Chrono, the foliage, the color palette, the shape of the terrain, and the style of buildings all work together. Everything looks like it belongs in the same world. The environment feels grounded, natural, and well thought out.
Ashes of Creation, to be fair, has good environmental fidelity, especially considering that it's still in early alpha. The graphics are sharp, the assets are high quality, and the lighting system shows potential. But right now, the overall art direction of the environment feels rough and unfinished. The different elements, trees, rocks, terrain textures, buildings, often don’t blend well together. They feel separate, like they were designed without a shared style or vision. Improving this cohesion would make a huge difference to how immersive and believable the world feels, even without raising the graphics quality.
Forests, for example, are basically nonexistent in Ashes. There are trees, yes, but they are scattered and sparse. They don’t create a real forest atmosphere. Below, I’ve added screenshots showing what proper forests look like in Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 and Chrono Odyssey. In those games, forests feel dense, deep, and immersive. The trees are packed close together, the lighting changes when you walk through them, and there’s a clear shift in the environment. You feel like you’re inside a forest, not just passing through a group of trees. Even New World managed to create immersive forest, so I'm sure Intrepid can do it too.
Then at the end, there’s a screenshot of Jundark in Ashes of Creation, which was supposed to be a dark and dense jungle. But instead, it looks just like the rest of the Riverlands—some trees on top of bumpy terrain. A jungle should feel thick, overwhelming, full of heavy foliage and shadow, almost like a maze. Right now, that kind of biome doesn’t really exist in Ashes, and that’s a big missed opportunity when it comes to making the world feel alive and diverse.
There is hope, though, because even Intrepid Studios themselves have shown Jundark as a dense jungle in their official concept art and thumbnails, like the one below. In those images, the jungle looks thick and wild, with heavy vegetation, tall trees, and a dark, moody atmosphere. It’s clear that the original vision for Jundark was much more than what we currently see in the game.
Riverlands
Let’s start with something simple. The area is called Riverlands, and yet there is no river big enough to actually sail a proper boat on. That feels strange for a zone with that name. Sure, you can swim or float a small raft on some of the rivers, but they are too narrow and shallow for real boats. There are a few spots where the rivers are decently wide, but it’s just not enough for a whole region that is supposed to be defined by rivers. A place called Riverlands should have at least one or two big, impressive rivers that feel like important parts of the world, not just small streams scattered around.
Topography
Ashes of Creation terrain seems to be either very flat or very bumpy, with not much in between. It almost feels like a large landmass was compressed into a very small area, forcing all the hills and elevations to be packed too closely together. The result is that hills appear very aggressive and dense, often popping up without any kind of smooth transition or buildup. It doesn’t feel like natural terrain formed over time—it feels like random bumps placed by hand. Below, I made a quick paint drawing to show what the current topography in Ashes looks like, together with some in-game screenshots. As you can see, there are no soft lines or natural shapes, just lots of sharp changes in elevation that don’t seem to follow any logic or flow.If we look at a screenshot from Crimson Desert, we can clearly see how the terrain builds up in a natural way. Every hill, every valley has a smooth transition. The land slowly rises or drops, and nothing feels out of place. Big elevation changes don’t just appear out of nowhere—they are prepared by smaller slopes or rolling terrain that leads up to them. This kind of buildup makes the world feel more believable and realistic, like something shaped by nature over time, not just placed by a level editor. It also helps with exploration and navigation, because the land has a clear shape and flow that makes sense to the eye.
In contrast, Ashes of Creation flat terrain is often very flat and that also doesn’t feel natural. In the real world, even flat areas usually have small changes in height, gentle slopes, or soft curves. But in Ashes, these flat zones often feel empty and artificial, like a flat sheet stretched between hills. If we look at the screenshots below from Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, we can see how immersive and natural the terrain looks. Even areas that are supposed to be flat have small ups and downs that make them feel alive and believable. I also want to make it clear that I understand Ashes can't match Crimson Desert or Kingdom Come in terms of graphic quality or visual fidelity—that’s not the point here. What I’m focusing on is just the shape and layout of the terrain. It’s not about textures or lighting, but about how the land flows and how natural it feels to move through.
Ashes terrain also lacks any interesting points of interest, especially natural, grand structures like the ones shown in the images below. These kinds of features are very important in open-world games. They catch the player’s eye, make the world feel more alive, and give you a reason to explore. A big cliff, a massive canyon, strange rock formations, or a huge waterfall. Things like that help make the world feel unique and memorable. They also help with navigation and give a sense of direction and scale.
While technically you can add these kinds of structures later in development, if you want them to look authentic and believable, the terrain around them needs to be built up properly. A giant rock arch or mountain peak shouldn’t just sit in the middle of flat land. The landscape should slowly lead up to it, with changes in height and style that match the structure. The environment around it should support it, both visually and in terms of gameplay. That’s why I think it’s much better—and more natural—to design the terrain from the beginning with these structures in mind. That way, the whole area feels like one connected and well-thought-out piece of the world, not just a flat space with a cool rock dropped into it. This approach helps create a truly unique and grand environment that feels crafted, not random.
Cohesion
Something that, to a certain degree, can be improved without completely changing the landscape is the lack of cohesion in Ashes of Creation. When we look at games like Crimson Desert or Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, the screenshots from those games look much better than Ashes in terms of how the environment feels. Of course, it’s easy to say that these are single-player games with better graphics and higher fidelity, so the comparison may not feel fair. That’s why it’s useful to look at a game like Chrono Odyssey instead. In Chrono, the textures are worse, the grass looks more basic, and the overall graphic fidelity seems lower than in Ashes.And yet, many screenshots from Chrono Odyssey still look much better and more visually appealing than those from Ashes of Creation. Why is that? The main reason is cohesion. In Chrono, the foliage, the color palette, the shape of the terrain, and the style of buildings all work together. Everything looks like it belongs in the same world. The environment feels grounded, natural, and well thought out.
Ashes of Creation, to be fair, has good environmental fidelity, especially considering that it's still in early alpha. The graphics are sharp, the assets are high quality, and the lighting system shows potential. But right now, the overall art direction of the environment feels rough and unfinished. The different elements, trees, rocks, terrain textures, buildings, often don’t blend well together. They feel separate, like they were designed without a shared style or vision. Improving this cohesion would make a huge difference to how immersive and believable the world feels, even without raising the graphics quality.
Variety
Ashes of Creation also suffers from a lack of land variety. Right now, all of the Riverlands region looks almost the same—just bumpy plains with small rivers and some trees randomly placed here and there. There are no clear areas that feel different or unique. You don’t really get that feeling of “Oh, this is a forest,” or “This is a wide-open field,” or “This is a hilly region,” or “Here’s a large flat area,” or “That’s a massive lake.” Everything blends together too much, and because of that, the world feels repetitive and less interesting to explore.Forests, for example, are basically nonexistent in Ashes. There are trees, yes, but they are scattered and sparse. They don’t create a real forest atmosphere. Below, I’ve added screenshots showing what proper forests look like in Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 and Chrono Odyssey. In those games, forests feel dense, deep, and immersive. The trees are packed close together, the lighting changes when you walk through them, and there’s a clear shift in the environment. You feel like you’re inside a forest, not just passing through a group of trees. Even New World managed to create immersive forest, so I'm sure Intrepid can do it too.
Then at the end, there’s a screenshot of Jundark in Ashes of Creation, which was supposed to be a dark and dense jungle. But instead, it looks just like the rest of the Riverlands—some trees on top of bumpy terrain. A jungle should feel thick, overwhelming, full of heavy foliage and shadow, almost like a maze. Right now, that kind of biome doesn’t really exist in Ashes, and that’s a big missed opportunity when it comes to making the world feel alive and diverse.
There is hope, though, because even Intrepid Studios themselves have shown Jundark as a dense jungle in their official concept art and thumbnails, like the one below. In those images, the jungle looks thick and wild, with heavy vegetation, tall trees, and a dark, moody atmosphere. It’s clear that the original vision for Jundark was much more than what we currently see in the game.
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Comments
Fidelity is mostly great, but so much space feels incredibly artificial / doesn't sell the environment in an authentic way yet. Especially areas that are meant to have dense foliage or that have elevation changes (the latter often feel just kind of random rather than being designed).
The foliage hopefully can just be inherently better cooked throughout the alpha - the landscape kind of seems like one that needs a lot of attention drawn to it, since it's not something that we can assume will be changed as time goes on unless feedback is provided.
The rivers in the riverlands all being samey and small other than the little portion outside of Carphin is also very odd, we need bigger rivers in at least some places xD
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/67249/the-problem-with-ashes-of-creation-biomes-and-more/p1
Listen up Intrepid
There is very little variations of the type of elevation changes, very little actual natural gradual elevation.
In every other zone other then the riverlands its also super empty with close to no actual natural points of reference. Like the to the right of the Giant three or To the left of the ruins. Regarding the ruins, wtf why do they look soo out of place. they dont feel naturally placed, and feels so out of place. they dont seem to form any outer wall. They just look randomly placed on the map.
When i asked why some places from the showcases dont exist or have been altered for the worse he said thats for performance which i think makes very little sence (bs).
Also revisiting places we saw in showcases years ago would make you feel like you are playing what you paid for since many of us bough alpha after seeing the showcases. I can wait for systems to be implemented but at least have those physical places that we saw in the showcases many many times present in a2 for christ sake ..
I hope itrepid artist will bring back those places and just in general give riverlands and other biomes this "magical touch" that makes a place feel like fantasy
https://postimg.cc/fk2Sg0Cp
https://postimg.cc/bG9s0Gd6
https://postimg.cc/gLnjPNs5
https://postimg.cc/SnWsqXLy
https://postimg.cc/vgPTjprf
https://postimg.cc/bDYdmztq
some times all it takes is a bounch of trees or like here the land covers the bridge and makes it look more natural instead of how it is now
https://postimg.cc/Czn5Przn
good read.
thise first to screenshots look so good, so intrepid can if they want to..
On top of that I feel like the fog is done wrong or missing and when we look for things from far away they doesn't have good view.
The picture that you presented showing a lot of riverlands has visible "end" of the generated map or something instead of cool visual fog that will make it not visible. It would also make the world less flat, in my opinion we see too much of the terrain. Pictures that MaxDemon posted from pre-alpha videos shows much better work of a fog which gives better feeling. In my opinion thats the biggest issue for now besides having riverlands too flat overall.
EDIT: I almost forgot. I also would love to see their Riverlands idea from "range attach showcase" it was looking wet almost swampy with plenty of water and fog everywhere. Current riverlands is so dry, there is no water besides the rivers and lakes. So watery areas wouldn't have so dry ground everywhere.
when it comes to sell packages they pull out the best fantasy ever and the closest thing (for me) to lord of the rings world design(not the game)...
also hope that when they expand the zones, the mountains that right now look rectangual will look like this:
https://ibb.co/1YKJ5w20
steven literally said in this video about this view "what a beautiful view, now i know why you made your freehold here" god damn it
Well written Snekkers.
Yep I would expect more wet and way more forested not a forest biome but more, aswell as more ponds and with the river going down I would also expect a more drastic decline overall
From these screenshots it should be clear how wierd the eleavation is its straight up close to lionhold then goes super flat afterwards.
a jump is Z+200
so the change of 2000 across such a huge area, makes the riverland not feel like the elevation make sense espessially when it goes up as drastic as it does near lionhold.
Interesting points about terrain shape, variety, and zone identity. The screenshots and comparisons help paint a clear picture of how things feel on the ground right now.
Here are some follow-up questions for those who haven't specified on them in this thread:
For any other User, this might be something special -> but for "Testers" this should be the Normalcy.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
I reply to this even though my post contains those answers.
1. I provided 2 landmarks from league of legends cinematic. Those instantly feel unique, specific, memorable. So probably this style of terrain shaping would be ideal.
2. I think both are necessary, big/grand landmarks make the world feel memorable, fantasy, unique. Small features, details that you discover when exploring, they add depth and immersion to the world. Good fantasy open world game would ideally have plenty of both.
3. I am not sure what you mean by "biome specific gameplay". I think my post would not impact overall gameplay that much, but technically you can have AoC gameplay on grayboxed UE5 flat plain. Having good memorable, natural world with grand monuments, fantasy landscapes, but also filled with discoverable details would compliment gameplay without necessarily altering it.
I enjoy this kind of thing a lot, grassy/flowery fields with vegetation that isn't overly flat or bland looking. The pictures below are from the Nesting Grounds in Throne and Liberty, it's filled with rivers and flowers and the excessive flatness of the area is contrasted by a few giant rocky bird nests and by the observatory ruins overlooking the area from high above. It's these contrasts and the beauty of the vegetation that make it notable to me.
I also enjoy stuff like FFXI's Uleguerand Range. It is a mountainous snowy biome and the reason it's memorable is because of the difficulty in traversing it combined with the beauty. Scattered through the entire range there are crevasses that you might fall into, leading through complex frozen cave systems with difficult enemies. The climb to the top of the Range is long and difficult, but also marked by beautiful views due to the height. Reaching the top lets you then slide down a snowy slope in order to reach a particular cave you can't get to any other way. If you fail to glide the right way, you need to restart the climb.
The Yuhtunga Jungle in FFXI was also memorable. When maps used to be unlocked via quests only, that area was really difficult to navigate by just walking through, because it's an actual labyrinth. I ended up writing a journal with the attempted routes until I mapped out a successful route through. I'll always remember it because no other area in any MMO made me feel as a cartographer/explorer in quite the same way.
A mix of both, please. I enjoy large dramatic features like magic obelisks, tower ruins and so on, as long as they overlook terrain which is beautiful in its own right and as long as I can walk around and discover small details. I'm generally afraid devs will either overdo it with the dramatic or put so much thought into the subtle exploration that they forget to make screenshot worthy vistas.
I like the concept of terrain that changes with the weather/tides. Tidal flooding changing your pathways through an area for example. Day/night cycles changing the way you approach areas (ffxi has undead spawn at night, TL turns some areas into pvp at night etc). Mob tribes fighting each other in certain conditions and you adapting to them being distracted. Volcanic erruptions being both an obstacle and a source of minerals. Sudden weather changes meaning some resource/mob spawns that is suddenly more profitable than what you were doing, meaning you have to think on your feet and act fast to make a good profit.
fr while throne is okayish i really liked that flower area with birds that i took a screenshot of it and added it to my wallpapers even tho i forgot to turn some icons off lol
and as u can see with how bad the pic is i rarely ever do that lol
the more i look the more i just dislike ashes biomes , why is the scale of everything in it so weird and messed up , everything is small , look at chrono horse is an actual horse , right scale and feels like one , same with the character and their looks i can actually see them without needing to zoom almost inside of their heads then again why would i do that with how ugly they are...for real everything looks so damn tiny.
like every other game make the scale of things bigger cuz that how they look right they did the opposite in ashes and everything looks wrong, how did they manage to do that when A1 had it right ,hell A1 had a lot more stuff right from scale to environment to atmosphere to actual fun crafting not a grind ...etc its just sad honestly
There's a meaningful difference in how good a world can look when it's designed to be seen from that view, compared to Ashes which will often be played from max zoom overhead. Ashes is 'better off' being designed visually like an isometric game.
Short version, if you're almost never looking at the horizon or seeing the sky in-game, it will always look and feel very different even with similar models.
(not the forests thing, though, that mostly comes from the tree design being used right now, but they've said they will update the Jundark ones)
most wont play the game zoomed to space only the few tryhard pvpers do that and no matter what camera zoom i tried everything looked tiny no matter what , its not a problem with the camera zoom its a problem with the models and scale of everything from character to mobs to world
I'm saying that the reason the models and scale look like that, is because of artists designing a world that is 'meant to be played at max zoom'.
We had a whole discussion years ago about this even in Alpha-1, but in the end, being zoomed out a lot is Steven's preference, so people ended up just assuming that we have to live with it, in the end.
Anyway, my point is that Chrono gets to look 'better' because it isn't visually designed for 'max zoom compatibility'. Same for New World. We know this because we've seen showcases where Ashes looks good in scale (first Ranger showcase) and then even within the same showcase it looked different (I think from someone else's screen, zoomed out, with the performance settings adjusted to handle that zoom level).