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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
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It was sold in previews/announcements as a lawless/high stakes/high reward PvP MMO.
Terribly unskilled and lazy people complained about being killed and thingsbeing to hard, to which there were no end of people who jumped in to try and make the issue as bad as possible.
Without putting hardly any effort at all into it the whole project flipped upside down and went in the complete opposite direction.
They coulda either balanced their pvp systems better or worked on the pve side better, to have a much smoother transition. But neither of those things were done, and coupled with insane bugs and exploits - we got what we got.
Ashes is early enough in production that Intrepid could go either way. Though, if anything, I feel like Steven is simply going even deeper into just making a pvp game. We'll see how that works out in the end.
NW couldn't have changed too much in any other way from the baseline it had, if given the goal of 'engage or retain PvE players' or even 'make PvP-avoidant players happy while not driving away our PvP audience', because NW is an Action-y combat game with multiple very strong meta-pressures.
It's just not 'on the side of the MMORPG curve' that lets it choose a different path.
Reminding as usual that Steam does not count Console players.
My estimation of the ratios for New World and TL, both 50% Console players (rising in both cases).
I've put minimal effort into this estimation this time.
Also to the poster quoted, that number is 'online right now', the number of players 'subbed' is like 47-55x that number.
If you want to know the number of active players in a game, use Guild/Company leaderboards. The audience for this type of game is out there.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
The game has change dramatically around player feed back and there are constant example of this if you have been testing from the start. So the whole Steven is gonna do whatever he wants is clearly an invalid argument based on the history of the games development. Combat change, dwarf change, TTK rework, enchant rework, gathering rework, and on and on, and these changes have occurred based on community feedback. Part of the reason the timeline f
2nd there are core pillars that Steven and the team build around. The statement that "this game is not for everyone" is a reference to these core pillars. Steven has said repeatedly they will not deviate from the core pillars of the game. So when someone requests an environment for an open gunk fest for example, Steven is quick to say that is not going to happen and if that's what you want, Ashes is not for you. This is beneficial to both the player, who now knows to not waste their money, and to the development team who has a clear vision for mechanics.
Appealing to everyone appeases no one.
Steven is very logical in his statements. Yes, mhm, surely.
I do remember Steven saying to me during our 2018 Ashen Forge interview that Ashes would not have FFA PvP zones like The Open Seas and the Lawless Lands.
Should be OK that Ashes is not for everyone.
Hopefully it will maintain enough of a population to keep the servers going for at least a decade.
We should get a better look come p3. I like the name plates and the caravan changes. With vassals coming online that should help too. But as it looked in 2.0 it was just open world PvP with penalties. 2.5 seemed to get worse from what I heard... Here's to a better outlook for p3... I do like the changes coming to the crafting and economy, I'm optimistic about those.
I kinda loosely agree with you about the lawless zone thing. I'm not opposed to lawless zones either though, if done right. But the more I think about it, without them, how in the hell is anyone actually supposed to "contest" anything? Unless you consider swinging your sword at open air for the chance of first tag, or out dpsing other people, "contesting." Maybe technically it is. But yeah that's not what the players of these types of games generally think of with that word.
But seriously. Seriously think about the corruption system. Yeah yeah yeah, overtuned, gonna be tuned down some, yeah yeah. Mm hmm. Let's be real. How in the flying fizzlesticks is anyone actually supposed to contest anything? As soon as you go red with one kill, you're defenseless. You can't even defend yourself without going further red. Quite literally, you can run, but can't hide. Your location is freakin broadcast and pinpointed on the mini map.
I'm as big of a fan of the original vision of the game as the next guy. But it's pretty clear to me we're not getting that. Can only hope they implement these lawless zones in a way that doesn't strictly benefit mega guilds and zergs.
Literally all raids/high value spots will be farmed by people in guilds. All Intrepid need to do is design a proper, in-depth, complex system of wars that allows to have the kinds of stuff in that video above.
Add onto that proper anti-zerg mechanics, so that the boss can't just be overtaken with numbers, add good mob AI, so that the boss/mobs/adds/etc could interact with differently flagged people in different ways, and add in-depth aggro and mob manipulation mechanics that would create a true pvx experience.
That's how you address this situation. But all of that is so much harder than just plopping a damn ffa genocidal circle, putting fingers in your ears and yelling "blah-blah-blah-blah, can't hear your complains about zergs fully controlling these areas and this content, blah-blah-blah"
But I think we're back in this same cat and mouse game. How do you make wars to where guilds can declare on many multiple other guilds who are all contesting the same thing, without simultaneously making it to where that war system is something that Steven isn't afraid of? Afraid as in, afraid of how that same war system will be used to force pvp on others for purposes that aren't as kosher.
What about when the meta becomes to just have alts or even mains who simply aren't in a guild?
I'm just talking, not looking to argue with someone who has way more experience with this system than I. But it just seems hopeless to me.
I mean it's not hopeless, you can just make a game with Ashes' original vision. But I think that's a forgone conclusion at this point.
As for how you design those wars. Do them inside out. Instead of their target being another guild, make the war related to the content. POIs will have quests and NPCs related to them. Make those NPCs know the respawn window of the biggest thing in the POI and/or have a quest related to the POI as a whole. The big target would require a higher wardec cost, while the general POI contest wardec could be cheaper, but with a more limited potential list of targets.
The guild that's present at the POI within the respawn window can declare war on several other guilds right on the spot, by using an item they get from npc/quest. Those items are limited in use by power differences between warring guilds, by POI's value, lvl of content, etc etc. They also have prerequisite costs related to them, either by doing something for the POI's node or by going through a guild-quest.
Using those items creates several "monuments", around the POI, that can be activated by the wardec targets. These monuments enable certain mechanics on the boss or around the POI in the vicinity of the wardeccing guild. This could range from environmental hazards to full boss buffs with adds and stuff.
If a single guild become a target of several such wardecs, they get the right to use secret passages through the POI (these could be tunnels, invisible paths on top of walls, etc).
If the game registers massive acitivity of players, with several warring guilds active in the POI - the entire place becomes a last mang standing arena, with all monuments activated and external entrances only being open one-way and single-use, so anyone who dies within the POI (being in one of the warring guilds) can resurrect outside and re-enter the location once (could be several times, but that's up to testing).
Once only one guild remains - the boss' spawn timer could be shortened or the spawn itself started, but with the place on lockdown, this boss would now be stronger (+the monument activations).
To me THIS sounds like a PvX encounter, where people on all sides agree to participate, where random people who're still inside the dungeon could still remain there, but would be in great danger because high player activity has "awakened the eeeeevil". And hell, you could even have extra rewards related to monument activation, so that everyone in the POI gets the appropriate lvls of risk/reward balancing.
And this is just a random idea that I came up with right on the spot. Obviously it's not ideal and it's nowhere near balanced. But it's also obviously way more complex than just "duhhh, pvp zone, duuuhhh", so it'd require a ton of coding, quest/event hooks, environment design/layout, mob AI and pathing, proper anti-zerg mechanics, proper boss design - all with, ideally, ONLY GEAR DECAY AS DEATH PENALTIES. People would have already paid to participate in the war and there'd be a lock out, so there's no damn reason to make players lose stuff!!
I bet there's like 10 other equally as in-depth and interesting (and more) ideas out there - all infinitely better than fucking lawless zones.
Yeah it's less kosher in the way you describe. Kosher or not, or whatever, it's just unrestricted pvp, not an unheard of concept. But it's contained. Segregated to only certain areas at certain times. So in a way, it's a more hardcore pvx thing, and in another way, a less hardcore pvx thing. Because it allows for more of the rest of the world to be less hardcore pvx, in other words. If that's Steven's intention. It's a compromise. Because it mollifies the bulk of pvpers to an extent (if done well, big if) with a place to pure pvx, which gives breathing room for Intrepid to give a less pvx...pvx experience in other areas for those who prefer that. Those very refined gentlemen who prefer to be outdps'd by their competition than killed by them in the year of our Lord 2025. Again, if that's the intention behind it. I don't actually know for sure. But I think it is.
I think I get what you're saying with your war idea. A mass/multi guild war that has the potential to cascade into a lawless zone? It does sound hella complicated lol. Can't lie. But I see what you're saying. I imagine there are many very intricate ideas like that that could be an alternative to lawless. But is Intrepid actually going to go with something like that, I dunno. That might be a hard ask but who knows.
Somehow Intrepid has to figure out how to let people pvx in an open world. It has to be fun with chances of success for various group types and sizes. It's a hurdle, but not insurmountable at all. Ya gotta spread it out across the map to some extent and keep it random enough to avoid it turning into the zerg fuckfest that everyone knows it can turn into without proper design. The same zerg fuckfest that even the zerg fuckfesters begin to hate if that's the ONLY or mostly only option there is to pvx in a pvx game.
I dunno, they'll figure it out. I have faith.
Edit: Which doesn't mean it can't SOMETIMES be zerg fuckfest btw. Zerg fuckfest can be fun sometimes. It's part of a balanced diet. But there's gotta be more than just that.
My main issue with the lawless zones is a complete absence of risk or cost for the zergs, the strong guilds and the gankers - all while they get the best rewards in the game AND get to enjoy their preferred gameplay.
Now imagine if tomorrow Steven came out with something like: "we're adding instanced pve event with higher drop rates on best items in the game".
Do you think the pvpers would sit quietly and not complain? Cause oooooh boi I sure doubt they would
This is why I'm saying that Ashes is turning into a pvp game. Every damn change we've seen so far has been an appeal to and an appeasement of pvpers.
And yeah, sure, my suggestion would be quite difficult to implement and probably even more difficult to balance well enough for it to really feel fun and interesting. But you know what else is that way? PvE. You know what we've barely heard any dev speak about? PvE. Yet we keep getting easy pvp systems (well, system) and Steven keeps mentioning soft friction with almost every damn new system he introduces (crates? gathering pylons? I'm sure I'm forget some other recent addition that was also presented in the form of "this creates soft friction in the world").
And then you combine that with his statement about the pvp event death penalty change of "losers gotta suffer", and you start to understand why he loves his pvpers so much.
And I will be nothing if not super happy when/if Intrepid start releasing properly complex and cool PvE encounters. When mobs will get good AI. When we start seeing deeper mob interactions in our abilities (ight come w/ summoner?). When we get proper node-lvl-based mob leveling rather than "jundark is meant to be a lvl50 zone". When we get way more great and difficult bosses.
All of that will make me really happy. But I fear that by that point Ashes audience will only be comprised of pvpers, who won't give 2 shits about any of that content and will only ask for even more pvp systems from Steven. All because adding lawless-type super simplistic pvp systems will push away all the pver feedbackers, while keeping the pvpers there and vocal. Which will just create a vicious cycle of one-sided feedback.
And imo we've already been seeing that throughout the last 3 years. And it all started with the Open Seas change.
Make the "risk" be associated with danger from NPCs and environment too and not only when players want reward. Separate risk from reward.
Verra should be a dangerous place, even for the largest well organized guilds and for solo beggars collecting sticks.
Crates are awesome. You will see. If I understand how they were explained correctly, then they're going to be similar to crates in Archeage. Which were trade packs, fish. Physical objects in the world that you had to turn into places. Yeah they will create friction that's for sure.
I will kill the shit out of you if you steal my trade pack. I will stalk you. One time in Archeage, ahh fuk it's a long story but these 2 dudes killed me on my farm and stole my trade pack then I killed them and stole theirs, shit was epic gg.
But I'm not in love with every change that's been made, and I'm a pvper. There's certain things I disagree with. Yeah the pve game is lacking. Pvp game is kinda lacking too lol. But I know what you mean, we need more pve, quests, dungeons, better crafting, more pois, better mobs, the whole 9 yards. All of it, the more the better. I think most pvpers want as good of pve as possible. They should at least, because they're going to be doing a lot of it. It's not always going to be contested either. A lot of times it won't be.
If pver's quit, I mean I don't really know what to say about that. It's a pvx game. Done right, most people, other than the utterly helpless, should be able to advance in the game, albeit at different rates, including pvers. But if you're talking about like a pure pver, no tolerance for anything else. Then yeah I guess lawless content might make them quit. The eternal mystery to me is why this person is playing a pvx game in the first place. Whether they're killed, out tagged, out dps'd, their node is sieged and destroyed, they're guild war'd, node war'd, caravan raided, I mean it's just like, what can ya do. They aint takin none of this shit.
But for everyone else, my main concern is that amongst pvxers, the people who want to play pvx games, they're not all god gamers in elite/mega guilds, with 16 hours to play a day. And so I'd try to make the game as fun and fair as possible, for the largest range I can, of that group. Lots of content, everyone able to engage with the basic, core systems. The game does seem a bit out of balance in favor of the hard core to me. Edit: (And so yeah to your point, lawless zones are something that could make it worse. Imo they need to be done in a way that allows the most people possible to have fun in them, again primarily imo by spreading it out, making it hard for just one zerg to dominate every lawless zone. At the end of the day we know zergs, megaguilds, they're gonna do what they do and have success with it, because it's easy, you can't fully stop it. But spread em out, let smaller groups pick at them, or avoid them at least in their full zerg form. The zergs do have to compete against other zergs, and that balances in a way too. But the zergs, even if they don't realize it, they too want to be spread out. Only the most fanatical zerger can literally just zerg forever and never get tired of it. Most of them eventually will get bored of nothing but zerging. So just help em out early, and help everyone else out at the same time by getting it right from the get go.) We'll see what happens, it's really hard to fully judge right now. Honestly I'm speculating with a lot of what I or anyone says.
And I'll be reallll curious to see how all the "pvpers" react to the crate system where you have to..... PK?!?!?!.. other people? Like, literally yesterday Zybak released a video about all these changes and his first thought about crates is "well, I don't like it cause people will PK-bait"
That's all you need to know about the "pvper" reaction to that system.
My only hope is that the crate system will push Steven to balance corruption better, but I somehow doubt that'll happen.
I love Zybak videos btw. Can't wait for his series on crafting, I think it'll be really good and insightful.
Anyway. Yeah I watched his video already too, with his commentary on crates. And yes with the corruption system as is, crates will just be busy work. You walk this crate from here to there, no risk, just walk it. You can literally bot it, write a script. People almost certainly will. But for some humans, just walking crates is like peak gameplay.
There are certain things that I just can't explain. I view myself as an above average intelligence person. But we all have our limits. I can't explain it. People wanna roleplay bots, others are attracted to...cows? And it gets even weirder from there so. It's a diverse and beautiful world.
But enter the lawless areas, and now we have a mechanic here. They will work very well for things like the open ocean.
If your hope is that Steven will balance corruption better, I mean he has to, just to meet the bare minimum of what he's sold for years. I think he will rebalance it some. But do you realize how drastically he would have to rebalance it to actually get it truly functional for this type of game? I've personally lost faith in that happening. His commentary for years now has been very antagonistic towards the system. I read between the lines a lot, and sometimes I misread things, but that's my read.
Badass questing.
A tiered questing system in a similar sense as gear rarity (common, uncommon, rare, heroic, etc). Quests being color coded like gear. The casuals get the traditional questing experience (still good xp/rewards, clear directions, etc) and the more hardcore can do the higher tiered quests which are more challenging, better rewards for that level range, better XP, a little more vagueness in where to go/what to do, etc.
Also, PLEASE add in different camera angles/panning when talking with a quest giver and while using profession stations. It gives the game a nice finesse touch of immersion (for me).
Yep, that's my belief as well. This lawless crashout is probably my last attempt at making my voice heard on this topic. If nothing changes or, hell, gets worse - I'll still try the game out, cause there's other cool systems in it, but it will no longer be an mmo that I could truly enjoy to the same extent as I did L2.
And as I mentioned in another replay today, it's not like I have rosecolored glasses for "the past" of those mechanics. I experienced the same open world pvp joy in L2 just some time ago, so nothing changed on that front (both with me AND L2 players). But Ashes is obviously going for something completely different now.
lol yes, of course. Cowboys haha
Yeah the lawless zones are definitely an Archeage influence. It can be good, it really can. Also can be lame heh. I dunno, my hype for Ashes was kinda reinvigorated after playing the Chrono beta and Dune. Even when Ashes makes decisions I don't agree with, these other games just really remind how dire gaming is right now, and how there's actually some hope with Ashes.
I'm also pretty hyped for Aion 2 but shouldn't be. NCsoft, p2w, bots. I love faction games (actually my preferred pvp model, even moreso than Ashes format.) I know you don't like faction though. But even still, at the end of the day I feel like Ashes is the only real hope.
Pax Dei, TL, Crowfall, New World, god help us. So dire.
Hope they manage to deliver on the other promises w/o changing them completely too. The potential is huge, so they just gotta not fuck it up.
I wonder how long this thought of his will last past him being in charge of several servers with vastly different population levels.
But the obvious most direct fix to this problem would just be to make that peak level determined by the highest node on the whole server realm.
There are lots of differences to your suggestion. Once the first node reaches Metropolis, max level will likely always remain available for all players, or at least restrictions will be much shorter than in your method. Also, no players will be restricted in level by their node choice. But I really don't see how either of these would be negatives, when your primary purpose is slowing down max players.
This would mean players on the realm "only" have to coordinate to level up one node to max in order to unlock max level for themselves and everyone. But that's still a fairly restricted endeavour. Lots of players will still want to grow their own nodes. And regardless, the devs can still arbitrarily lower the ceiling of how quickly the max node level can be reached on a realm's first launch compared to how quickly a player can gain enough XP for max level, as much as the devs want. No matter how much players spam one node, max node level could still take 500x as long as max player level.
Admittedly, this is barely more creative than just restricting levels on launch directly. They might as well directly artificially tie max level access to the percentage of players who have passed a certain level threshold. Still, if this was deemed a desirable state, there would be very direct ways of achieving it.
That all said - I doubt Steven wants any of this. Nor do most of the most influencial parts of the community (guild leaders, social media creators, and both of their fellowships.)