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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
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Amazing world, painfully dull grind
TheDarkSorcerer
Member, Alpha Two
One thing Ashes of Creation really needs to address is the grind, and I get it, before anyone jumps in with “but it’s Alpha,” let me just say: yes, it’s Alpha, but that’s exactly why this feedback matters now.
Right now, the path to max level in Alpha feels like a chore. Grinding mobs for hours on end is the core way to level, and that’s not engaging gameplay... it’s exhausting. There's very little meaningful content in the early to mid-game that introduces you to the world, its systems, or even gives you a sense of progression outside of mob density and XP bars.
Compare that to something like Elder Scrolls Online, where levels 1-50 serve as a structured and immersive tutorial. You’re still learning the game, but you’re doing it through main story quests, world events, dailies, and public encounters. It makes leveling feel rewarding without forcing repetition. And importantly, it brings the world to life from the moment you start playing.
With Ashes, it feels like all the attention has gone into endgame systems; node sieges, caravans, raid bosses. But the early game lacks the foundation to draw players in. Verra is supposed to be this rich, dynamic world, but right now it doesn’t offer that sense of wonder or discovery early on. New players should be excited to log in, not burned out from killing the same mob type for three hours straight just to hit a soft milestone.
If Intrepid wants this game to succeed long-term, they need to make the journey to the endgame just as compelling as what waits at the top.
Right now, the path to max level in Alpha feels like a chore. Grinding mobs for hours on end is the core way to level, and that’s not engaging gameplay... it’s exhausting. There's very little meaningful content in the early to mid-game that introduces you to the world, its systems, or even gives you a sense of progression outside of mob density and XP bars.
Compare that to something like Elder Scrolls Online, where levels 1-50 serve as a structured and immersive tutorial. You’re still learning the game, but you’re doing it through main story quests, world events, dailies, and public encounters. It makes leveling feel rewarding without forcing repetition. And importantly, it brings the world to life from the moment you start playing.
With Ashes, it feels like all the attention has gone into endgame systems; node sieges, caravans, raid bosses. But the early game lacks the foundation to draw players in. Verra is supposed to be this rich, dynamic world, but right now it doesn’t offer that sense of wonder or discovery early on. New players should be excited to log in, not burned out from killing the same mob type for three hours straight just to hit a soft milestone.
If Intrepid wants this game to succeed long-term, they need to make the journey to the endgame just as compelling as what waits at the top.
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Comments
AoC isn't a game yet. Every stage falls flat and is under developed and lacks appeal.
One problem they have atm is not only arw things under cooked they're also convoluted and/or hidden which won't draw the masses.
A large % of players will require a guide to provide content for them by dragging tgem around the map to experience things found only by mining 3rd party websites like Ashes Codex. There will be large falloff from the more casual and small groups and solo players who lack a guide via a guild leader etc.
The sandbox element coyld work but only if there are numerous fun and interesting and rewarding paths players can take to embark into the world with (gathering, crafting, adventuring, exploration, economic, etc.)
Atm gathering is faulty and overly difficult to obtain low level mats of certain types so it is a non-starter path to play the game.
Processing/gathering needs a lot more dev time but also is non-functional from a game loop standpoint to engage with.
Solo players can do very little past level 10 as an adventurer. Can't kill much of anything at your level solo as you advance towards level 20. There is no solo content and many classes go OOM after two rotations through their kit so playing solo is non-viable. By the time you're strong enough to pull packs of mobs to solo grind them you hit the 10+ level block preventing drops from being awarded making that non-viable even for glint.
Exploration is do-able but with how fast mobs are compared to our characters you're pretty much dead as a low level if you go into any dense mob areas solo at low level while traversing the world.
To your point on early game the only thing players can do functionally is group farm mobs gor hours. Everything else is non-functional or barebones leaving a poor player experience
It still feels to me like we are testing primarily their server stability performance while they slowly develop the bones of a game that are vacant.
Placeholder is a bad word to me now too. There needs to more communication between testers/future players and the dev team.
I'm a little worried about its success and actually getting released on time or even within a year of planned release. But it is alpha so.. but beta will be the real look into the systems, I wouldn't expect major changes during beta.
I think this will be the 64 class system and the dynamic world. The world truly needs to feel alive by things changing depending on what the players are engaged with. If they fail to create unique class combinations that actually function and play differently from each other I will probably not enjoy this game. That is the single thing that draws me to the future of this game. In every mmo I play I want to feel different from everyone else. If I don’t feel that it’s not exciting.
Well, AoC follows game design from the 90s when spawn nests were introduced, is anybody surprised?
I'm not sure if there's anything worst than nests
Hit 25 on Ranger and there is no reason to ever use your melee weapon in pvp and besides aoe cleave there's not much purpose even in pve to them other than as a stat stick for your main hand. No abilities use them so what is their point?
Whether your first point is right or not, the second part could easily just be because the transformational effects of certain weapons aren't implemented yet.
Right now, there's no weapon you can equip that will change an Archetype skill into something more suitable for the weapon, but this would probably be the most common way to actually give things like that a purpose.
Same for Augments/Secondary Archetypes.
Ya and Iv made post about this. I just hope they can make the skill trees have different builds that lean more into ranges or melee. I think each class could have at least three skill builds in their tree. I’m made post about this before but we need diverse builds in the skill tree if the class combinations don’t change much or even if they do it would be awesome.
Blown past falling sands…
While I agree, there has been no indication that I'm aware of that that is AoC's design intent. Definitely possible and maybe even likely, but still conjecture at this point.
Even though the rogue has a little bit more to invest in it still is narrow. I think they should have skills locked out unless you invest is 2-4 other skills. You could make build paths that specialize in certain skills/play styles.
Fair enough, this is all I got (from the wiki) and definitely therefore can see how my perspective is conjecture.
Certain higher-end weapons and armor will have active abilities, but the intention is that these abilities will not radically redefine the way an archetype is played.[57]
Active skills that do get associated with certain types of pieces of armor and/or weapons: those will be much on the higher-end if they're an active ability that comes with those things. But I still don't think that the intended impact of those types of abilities is for us to radically redefine the way a particular archetype might play.[57] – Steven Sharif
Similarly I can see how 'will not radically redefine the way an archetype is played' can get into semantics about what that means, but even considering all that, I don't think Ashes is going to simply 'fall short of Throne and Liberty for no reason', and I also don't believe the Immortal Titanic Quakeblade and Abyssal Renaissance Foci would count as 'radically redefining', despite genuinely altering an available Active skill.
On the opposite side, I never been a fan of quests in MMO-RPGs. To me, they are much more chore-like than flat mob grinding - especially with mandatory storylines that just force players to complete a quest chain before they unlock certain areas. Warframe (not an MMO-RPG) is an expert at those. "Hey, wanna come do some <insert content> with us?" - "Oh, sure. I just gotta do this 4-8 hour long quest-chain first to access the area." (Mind you, in Warframe these quests are also often forced solo quests, meaning you have to play them by yourself.)
Though I would advocate for a "why not both"-argument, and thus bringing multiple ways of leveling into the game - one way is usually superior than the other, often resulting in the latter
To me this is a missed opportunity. You could add different passives on gear that buff or change a specific skill that turns it into your main source of damage that you might typically not use. You could even do this with the class combinations as well. Like you could ass something like “ if you hit a snipe from more than x meters away it does more damage or trips from a bow and then it does more damage if you hit from behind your target if you’re a /rogue ”. This would allow people to invest in what they want.
The "Grind" was the very Reason for my Burnout about Three or Four Weekends after Alpha Two began last Year. In the Middle of November, i just couldn't put pressure onto my brain anymore.
How many Thousand Goblins do i need to slay, for a single Level or so ? Am i freakin' Goblin Slayer or what ? lol
Part of me wonders if i could still do this, if i would be still in my Twenties or so - but i doubt even that. This is just to dull. To jaded. I wanted to be part of a Node - and the first thing i get to know is that i need to be LvL 10 to get anywhere in the World of Verra.
Then i level until i almost want to kill "myself" instead of the Monsters of Verra.
Only to then find out, that after i finally became a "Citizen" -> i still can't understand Jack-shxx what the NPC's of the Node actually want from me.
I see a few Menu's,
a few Lists,
a few Items i have absolutely no Idea what to use for,
i see i can get a few of them for "Glint" if my Memory serves correctly,
then i see that i need like 300 to 3000 of them for a Cape or something or anything else -> and i find out that i would need to play ("GRIND") at least several Hours for the likes of 3 to 7 - or 9 to 15 or that or something.
Oh, neat. Just what i needed. More Grinds until i think i might be a Servitor in the Warhammer40K Universe instead of a Node Citizen in Verra that actually wants his Node to get somewhere.
While i am 100% confident that i will understand more about WHAT to do, with exactly WHAT from which Node, as soon as the Game nears it's completion and a German Client/Version of all the Text will one Day be available,
right now i have like +90% more missing, non-existing Oversight over everything, than i had in WoW Vanilla during the middle 2000's or something. Even there i knew exactly WHAT was going on "where" exactly and what i could do and/or attain by doing what for Content.
This here ? Hell i am too stupid to even get my APPRENTICE Pickaxe somehow. I think i managed with the Apprentice Axe for chopping Tree's somehow - but this is just ridiculous. I feel more like a Liability for my fellow Verra Re-Explorers and Adventurers, than being an actual help.
Welp. At least i slaughtered countless Goblins around Aela to never even get all the Items full which i was supposed to get from them and deliver to an NPC Questgiver which i completely forgot wherever that Guy was standing when he gave me the Quest,
and at least i destroyed numerous Undead ontop of that Structure of Aela plus killed a huge bunch few Griffins which i think look absolutely majestic and which i think i was told to exterminate because they were told to have killed and eaten a Child or something.
Not bad at all. But the only thing which made the State of all that somehow acceptable was the fact, that this was EARLY Alpha Two and that things are still mostly a Placeholder compared to how it is all supposed to be during Launch.
Embrace the fact that MMO Players get older and older, Everyone. And i doubt really hard that "Gen-Z" or Millennials or whoever else will have the Patience and Span of Attention and/or Stamina to endure this never-ending Grind.
For THAT kind of Grind, the MMO Gamer World is truly about 20 Years too old by now. With one of the few, cool Exceptions being Peon/HiddenDaggerInn, who levelled amazingly and most of the time - because he also deeply craves a Place for RP and hopes he can own a Tavern someday in the Game - should it finally release by then.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
That's more of a personal thing though, so it might not be considered 'radically redefine' even if those exist, because those absolutely exist in TL also, in all sorts of ways, I only gave those two examples because they're extremely explicit and clear about the fact that they are changing a skill.
The Staff literally says "Changes a certain Ice Skill into a Lightning Skill and makes it do damage in an entirely different way than it did before."
There's another that has like 'Your damage is increased if you stand still for 2 seconds.'
I'd say that it's a semantics thing, if the concept of 'an Archetype' was quite flexible to begin with, then saying 'it doesn't radically change' makes more sense to most people.
For sure… I know this example isn’t a radical change but I feel like it’s another layer you could add to the game. I just want things that make my class actually feel different than everyone else. We will just have to wait and see as far as the augments are concerned.
I hope Bard's legacy holds true...
I don't really see how they even CAN get the "~225h to max lvl" design w/o grind. That would be an insane amount of questing, if you tried making that path non-grindable. And both mob and artisanry leveling is just grind.
After butchering and butchering a felt " MILLION " of Goblins ... ...
... ... ... my Weapon slowly starts to look beautiful in ANOTHER way than before ... ... ...
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
"Not the primary way to lvl" and "some grind" are partially the same responses.
either perspective I would like to assume suggests less than %25 grind
And Steven's "some grind" is simply a sugarcoating of bad news that there will be a lot of grind.
The game's design does not work (as Steven wants it) if there is no grind. If people are not present in grind spots - there's no reason to fight for them. If people are not out there gathering - there's no one fighting for them.
Steven loves "soft friction", but that friction can only happen when people are out in the open world grinding locations. Everything else is either a predetermined pvp event or people living in their own little world doing quests.
Those who are very used to grinding do not always understand the distinction others make when they say it (obviously because so many people have so many different perspectives on it).
But if the game offers enough Tasks, Commissions, and Social Org incentives, then the thing that will happen is not classified by most players as 'grind' and will also still be able to create some friction.
People who define 'grind' as 'needing to kill 25+ mobs in a single targeted activity' will obviously be disappointed at some stage, but I can at least say that I don't know anyone who considers that to be 'grind', especially if you change location/target, or have the fun of 'combining multiple objectives' (a good efficiency feeling that is randomly available).
Ashes only needs to meet the bare minimum of this gameplay type to not count as grind to anyone I know, both those who like it and who don't like it as much. So I don't agree that this game needs grind to achieve its goals.
And Ashes of Creation is not a 'bare minimum' style of game.
Misdirection is such a mighty tool.
But either way, if commissions will be enough for people to not call the game grindy - hell yeah, more people in the game.
Even considering your preferences, there's more to it than that.
A Commission can be many things, taking similar amounts of time and effort, some of them even 'making it so that a certain single mob is allowed to give you way more exp than usual if you did some other things'. Those other things are enjoyable to people in specific ways but 'would be sometimes too repetitive or easy to bot' (incredibly inefficient to bot but reasonable and fun for a player).
Making it a Commission helps limit those bots whose only advantage is infinite time. It genuinely isn't just 'point me at this these mobs instead of these mobs'. There are multiple mechanics in nearly any MMO that lend themselves well to this, but the one I'd use as a main example would be:
Imagine an area full of mobs that are not innately more rewarding but are for some reason more dangerous than most mobs but also not aggressive.
Now add a quest or Commission where you have to move something past those mobs (it can just be in your inv, or treated as a status effect) that makes them all aggro you. Now you have a sneaking task that could also be a fighting one in the right conditions, opportunistic to clear if you know a party is going up there, etc, while generally making any single bot trying to loop this activity either have difficulty or be really obvious.
Yes, if you 'just repeated this one Commission hundreds of times' it would be grind, but that's not what 'I don't want to grind' people are imagining.
They complain later, when they've played 5h a day for 3 months: "I've done that Commission a thousand times and now it's getting stale."
EDIT: I realized that some readers may never have played a game where mobs move around or you have to dodge aggro or mobs can move you around if you fight them incorrectly. Please note that the example is supposed to be viewed in terms of that type of game, where the PvE targets are not loot pinatas waiting for you to break them.
This is why I said that a proper questing approach to leveling would be insane, because, considering the size of the world and all the node-related quirks of the game - creating enough quests for all the people (or even just the majority) to NOT level through grind would be an insane undertaking.
And that's exactly what I meant when I said that it's all pretty much grind and people will only be fooling themselves if they believe otherwise.
There's only so many good, even semi-unique, quests a team like Intrepid could fit into Ashes to fill up ~170h of gameplay (if we assume that 25% of the 225h is pure mob/artisanry grind). And there's gotta be even more of them, cause what happens if a good quest is located in t3 Miraleth, while Miraleth is at t1 and will be blocked off for months.
Afaik, legacy mmos have taken yeaars of updates to get up to high hundreds in hours of questing. No matter how much I believe in Intrepid - I do not see them creating that amount of quest-related content for a sandpark game. And, imo, telling people "well, you can take commissions from the board and treat them as quests" is just lying straight to people's face and will only result in a mass exodus of questers who were told "yeah, you can definitely level mostly through questing".
As I see it, this is simply the "not for everyone" kinda deal and leaning on the sand of the design would be more benefitial to the game in the long run.
Firstly, you might be confusing Commissions with 'Tasks', there is an entire separate Commissions Board in the game right now that sends you off to find places, deliver things (I think), defeat specific mobs, etc.
That's at least 15m per, so they 'only' need around 600 unique ones, and yes, some number of those will be mob killing.
But that's still only like 20 per 'area' (where 'area' can mean a lot of things depending on the game, I don't think that the basis of my 'disagreement' is based on us not being able to agree on what an 'area' would be in Ashes relative to this) to get most people 'to level cap' (assuming a fixed FTUE such that you only really do a bunch of these after level 11 or so).
Anyone who is taking Ashes seriously as what it sells itself as will probably visit at least 5 nodes on their way to level cap, and if we go by the 'standards of the industry' (about 50 Commission type content pieces per Node) that's 250+ pieces of content, at around 15-20m each, easily 80h and each Commission can absolutely be 'allowed' to then give between 10% of exp in the 11-20 range all the way up to '10% of exp in the 30-40 range' for more difficult ones (or ones that open up when the nodes level).
The reason this works is simply because most people don't get bored of an area from just 3 visits, and designers can definitely get 2-3 unique things into each area, sometimes 'per visit'. When you have a lot of world-space (and Ashes certainly does) the goal of a good team is to use it. Use every bit of it you can manage to use without it being ridiculous. Recycle, reuse, refactor, retell stories. If you have an open plain doing nothing in your MMORPG in 2025 fill that with some random thought from a cool dev.
The reason people don't hear about/know about this massive source of content is that some people don't experience even half of it (me, for example, I am literally too busy in TL to consume all their side-content quickly), and those that do enjoy it, but don't have much need to talk about it because it's so personal to them.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Commissions
Commissions (previously called Tasks) are simple types of system-generated quests with singular objectives that enable characters and nodes to gain XP.[4][1][5][6][7][8][9][10]
And yes, I am referencing the "talk to the board, get the "kill this" or "gather this" mission and go do it" stuff.
There's only so many mobs and so many gatherables within each given node to have that uniqueness. And then if we assume the logical approach of "reskin this mob into a different region/biome and maybe give him another ability or two" - to me, that's still fighting the same mob. I sure hope that the majority of players will see this as something unique.
Then on top of that, if Intrepid DO decide to go for something more unique than just "kill/gather" missions - they'll need 50 of them per node, cause supposedly/hopefully/allegedly each node will have at least one POI valuable enough for people to visit it. And each node can grow to each stage of progress, so the game's content must be ready to be there if it does.
This is why I said that it's either just repetitive commission grind or the volume of unique things to do in the game is insane (for the scale of the team and their development timeframe).
I would totally support smth like "each node has 5 truly unique commissions and the rng always presents at least one of them, if you haven't done them yet at that node". But even that is 400 unique things, outside of all the other quests, M O D U L E S and story-related stuff.
I just think that my definition of grind is simply waaay too broad, while my preferred standards for quests and their uniqueness are way too high
I think of MMO developers as being able to make literally thousands of relatively unique mobs, but maybe that's a matter of the definition of 'unique' for you vs me.
And because mobs that are 'targets of commissions' don't have to live up to the absolute quality of 'challenging group content', they can use a lot more of the 'hey this thing is trivial because it doesn't have any mechanics that threaten a DPS once a Tank is there' designs that have to otherwise get 'thrown out'.
I guess for you 'Lion' that stuns, circles you, applies bleed, is immune to sleep and taunt, and 'Tiger' that fears you when it roars, charges head on, not affected by/lesser effects of movespeed down and chills (among other things, just assume 2 more differences) are still the same mob?