Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
And then you follow that up with Dygz level words games.
Great stuff.
You don't get to pick terms that you "recognise" or not. Other people use those terms, not you, You can opt to not use them, but if you understand them and other people use them, you don't have the luxuary of just "not recognising" them.
That isn't how language or communication work. You control what you say, not what others say. You can question their meaning, but you don't get to chose to "not recognise' a term someone else uses.
As proof of that, you know what the term means, as you have now made clear, which means you do, in fact, recognise it. You can not like the term, but the fact that you understand the meaning of those words when others use them means you do recognise it.
Cool.
Just be careful where you put them, moving it over one word can shift it from being a positive to a negative. I will.
That is literally their job, it is what they signed up for.
Oh yes, i do get to pick claims that i recognize or not,
specially ones as blank, as generalized and as feelings based as those,
do you have any prerrogative to says what one can or cannot recognize
as legitimate or valid considering it is their personal choice?
I would gladly check your licence and/or credentials for that.
You control what you recognize, not what others recognize.
If you don't understand what recognition in terms of
acknowledgement of validity or legitimacy is that's far from my problem.
We can play your word game all day Noaani,
just make sure you properly understand those words.
I won't.
As that's literally nowhere in the contracts they sign up.
But it would certainly be ludicrously funny to see a clause
"You will respect players time" and see Devs getting rekt by it.
Aren't we all sinners?
Would you tell me for whom the bell tolls?
Dictionary.com (the easiest resource to use for online semantics discussions) has 11 listed definitions of the word "recognize". They are numbered to make it easier to discuss them.
We can immediately remove definitions 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 and 11 from this discussion, as if any of these are the meaning of the word "recognize" you are trying to apply here, then we need to look at getting you checked for concission or some such.
That leaves 1, 2, 3 and 7 as definitions that could possibly fit this discussion.
I am working on the assumption that you are using the word in it's most standard form (Discionary.com lists definitions in what it considers the most commonly used way). As such, any of 1, 2 or 3 fit in with what I am saying here.
That leaves definition 7 as the only possible one of 11 definitions that you could be attempting to use here. That definition is "to acknowledge or treat as valid." Not that you disagree with it, that it is not valid.
If this is the meaning with which you are intending to the us the word "recognize", what you are doing is you are saying that terms used by some of the best known, long standing MMORPG developers is not valid, because you say so. You are putting yourself above Jake Song and others in terms of MMORPG development authority.
You are stating for fact that you believe you are a primary source for all things MMORPG, and MMORPG developers are not.
I don't personally believe that you are as full of your own shit as that. I don't believe that you would think that you can state terms used by actual professionals to be invalid - even if you disagree with them
If you want to stand by that, if you are that full of yourself, then why are you arguing here on the internet with me instead of running the world or what ever it is that someone with that level of ego must think they do?
However, what I do believe is that you do not agree with the wording of the term, and opt to not use it - even though you know full well what it means and that it is a commonly used term in this space. On top of that, I believe that you used the word "recognize" not knowing that it has implications past this, and also not necessarily intending to get in to an argument on it (even though you started it).
Except it quite literally is.
Developing the game based on player feedback is literally a core part of their role - and that is literally what we are talking about here.
Finally embracing the semantics you love so much?
Even reaching for an online dictionary for help?
I'm proud of you Noaani.
But no need to fumble around Noaani, your very own source uses
"to recognize a claim." as the exemple for it.
But i appreciate your dedication.
And no Noaani, no matter how much you try to twisted it,
Jake Song's dreamlike desire to "respect players time"
does not equate to people claiming "a game should respect their time"
or "the game doesn't respect my time" as supposed feedback,
it is as previosly stated(again)
"a generalized feelings based blank statement weighing in a false sense of respect" for legitimacy.
Specially when considering that ironically Jake Song himself and his games
got criticized with those exact pathetic claims.
Except it quite literally isn't.
Developing the game based on FILTERED player feedback is literally a core part of their role,
you believe every pathetic generalized feelings based blank statement weighing in a false sense of respect
for legitimacy would go through clogging what otherwise would be actual feedback?
Your replies are becoming pitiful, i hope you can do better than this Noaani.
Aren't we all sinners?
Would you tell me for whom the bell tolls?
It's as if you can't read.
First, I have no idea why you are talking about "claim". I am not making a claim for you to not recognize, and the definition only refers to a claim as an example of a specific definition (ie, not the definition itself). The specific definition it is referring to in that is definition number 7 - using the word to state that the subject of the discussion is not valid. This is the definition I talked about above where if that is indeed what it means, it essentially means that you consider yourself to be the foremost expert on all things MMORPG in the world.
I'm not sure why you think the feedback being filtered or not has an impact here.
Sure, someone probably is filtering feedback before it goes to the developers. However, the people whose job it is to make decisions on the games design still need to make those decisions - they still need to constantly fight that never ending battle. That is LITERALLY their job.
That doesn't mean it is the job of every coder, or of low level developers who work at Intrepid to just do what they are told. The people that are in the positions to make those decisions literally have that as their job, and that entails a never ending battle as we talked about above.
It baffles me that you think this wouldn't be the case, that a perpetualy world game could ever exist without people constantly fighting this battle.
How much is the "everything" that's granted or denied to those average players and reserved for others? How much should they be willing to tolerate seeing rare unattainable/perfected rewards on other players who put in more effort/time/skill than them? What percentage of that performance should they be allowed to insist on getting for themselves, in order to "keep up" reasonably?
There's no point in talking about how much time a player should have to invest into the game, and how well that time is rewarded, in the context of scarcity, if you don't discuss what percentage of the overall wealth said player should expect to be rewarded with for his efforts.
If the average player spends 5 hours a week on the game, and the biggest no-lifer spends 70 hours a week on the game, what should the power differential between them be? Obviously it shouldn't be 5:70; that's what's at the essence of "respect my time" for the hard-working Sunday gamer. But should it be 70:70? Should any time invested into the game beyond the standard progression be relegated to pure enjoyment without any chance of personal rewards? (Or guild/node rewards that would translate into individual benefits, for that matter?)
If that's too draconian, then what amount of unique rare items is allowed? And even before we get to the rarest of the rare, how big should the average equipment power differential between tryhards and average players be?
How long should it take to reach tryhard levels of rewards at average performance? Three times as many months? Twelve? Or should there be enough power creep that the average player is always guaranteed to trail behind the tryhard by the same amount? How would that affect players who take a break from the game?
If you don't make any statements about these specifics, all this talk about whether, and how much, your time should be respected offers no reference point for discussing/determining any specific decisions.
Because then there's never a measurable point where either side can agree that enough is being done to accommodate their preference.
And the slippery slope you're bound to tumble down if you don't define these dynamics is that you'll end up with the safest, least interesting solution:
Every player who shows up 5 days a week for three months ends up with roughly the same equipment (assuming they don't completely fumble the competition), with the senior players getting slightly more access to horizontal diversification. Showing up any more than that is completely pointless besides enjoying the gameplay itself, but everyone still feels compelled to log in 5 days a week so they don't have to catch up next month. There is nothing to build forward to, no players stand out, group power is decided exclusively by combat skill and player numbers.
In a game like that, loot is a farce. A carrot dangling in front of the mule, conditioned to carry the same cart forward forever. There's no real reason to have loot at all besides player retention. The concept loses all its intended strengths for unique goals and impressive achievements.
That's what the strength of scarcity is supposed to provide. But if you don't talk about how much of that you want, and how much of it is too much, then talking about ideal time investment is completely meaningless. Even if you could all agree on an exact definition for how much of a reward you should get per hour invested, it will be meaningless until you also define how that reward should measure up to someone who did the same thing 14 times as much.
Or the many alternate solutions:
Literally any choice instead of childishly sulking that someone else has more than you, in a game where you choose what your goals are, what you value, what you compete for, and how you compete for it.
So it will be kinda becoming a Gankbox here and there at times ... ...
Not as bad as in Sea of Thieves,
i think - but since it looks like everything - and dominant Word here is EVERYTHING - will be left to the Players and how they handle it,
i can already see/guess how some People will "handle" Ressource-Scarcity when they are able to team up in Groups of like 5 Players and above.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
Different players have different levels of both challenge and time they are willing and able to put in to any given game.
Ashes currently only caters to one set of players with a specific amount of time they are willing to put in, and a specific amount of challenge they are willing to undertake.
The notion that players want everything now is not entierly true.
A better statement would be that players want something now.
Whether people like it or not, this is something Intrepid will need to address at some point. They will need to find ways to make the game acceptable to people with differing acceptances of challenge, and with differing amounts of time they are willing to put in.
That doesn't mean these players need to get everything that players willing to accept more challenge and put more time in to the game get - but they do need to get something. Currently they can't even manage to craft a basic weapon for themselves - an act players are used to being able to do within 30 minutes of starting a new MMORPG.
If Intrepid do not find a way to appeal to these players, the bulk of the potential audience for this game will simply look to Azherae's comment above and realize that the best thing to do is to not play.
But i do this with S~OOOOOOOOOOOO. "MANY". GAMES, already ... ... ...
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
There are literally hundreds of thousands of games out there that you didn't play.
Adding one more game to that list isn't going to hurt you.
I think i get what you mean ... ...
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".