Dungeon PvE is mediocre, and leveling is too fast.

I played more than and handful MMORPG, specialy Lineage 2 for 5 years.

I want to say that the open "dungeon" from OathKeep, to Shephilion, to Steel Blood are boring has hell.
Their layout are extremly basic, they sure look cool from afar, specialy Sephilion(even if area could use some situational shader to give darker ambiant, and cut with the whole Riverland light fantasy), but when you are in, this is just meh.
The PvE in these dungeon only consist into getting into a room corner, to then pull some mobs for hours on the same spot… Im used to lame PvE as a Lineage 2 player, but man these dungeon "design" push it to the extrem!
Dear Steven did you recall Elven Ruin man? or other Lv10 Dungeon from L2? Why are everything so small scaled in Ashes of Creation?

Also while farming like a monkey in game like L2 was an "easy" thing since the game wasn't requiring much skill in PvE, here in Ashes you MUST spam your skills, and if you dont play a DPS you need to stay awake nd focused for hours, there is no place for some "cool" PvE with chitchat, since the mobs over there hit like trucks for no real reason.
It feels like a cheap Hard mod where the basic enemies have 500% boosted stats, and lets call it a day.

I have no idea who is having fun doing this kind of AoE Spam skill for hours in the exact same spot in a dungeon… Let us explore the place make it bigger and interesting!
And again I did this shit in Lineage 2, but at least we didn't had to stay focus constanly, and dungeon layout were frankly way better.
I really think this has to be reworked, Sephilion could need some underground to feel bigger, more mobs should be added while being less deadly.

Lastly, and its probably the most important thing, the leveling is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too fast.
Maybe it's just for the Alpha? But people being Lv25 within a week shouldn't be a thing IN A SANDBOX GAME.
This isn't a themepak game, there is no rush to "endgame" content here, to then wait 6 month for the new addon.
If this game doesn't have a long grind to keep the nolifer busy, they will just get bored, PvP for a while to stomp noobs with their stuff and then quit.
Unfortunatly with such an underwhelming PvE in group/dungeon, i think this would be unbearable to have long grind. This is why im urging the dev to improve it, to then be able to extend the leveling phase.
You want the player to PvE for a long time, this is what makes them going outdoor, this is what makes them gathering stuff for crafting etc etc.
The moment your players reach max Level, they will play for a month and then quit(a lot may even start to grief by boredom and so makes low level players leave too), and this game is LIVING because of his player, it's not a themepark.

PS : Im absolutely not asking for instanced dungeon, it would destroy the whole point of the game.
Im talking level design, and difficulty adjustement to make the PvE more interesting(not mandatory easier)

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Comments

Ludullu

Yeah, design compared to L2's dungeons is really really weak. Let alone later L2 dungeons, even just Ant Nest or Kruma. And what we have in the Riverlands is supposedly the best they've been able to make so far. Sure, "first pass" and all that, but to what extent and how damn long will it take them to have a proper 2nd/3rd/4th passes? Ain't no fucking way they'd be able to actually make all of this better within a year WHILE adding a shitton of things to all the other biomes.

daveywavey

The problem is that if you massively increase the XP Gain so that the No-Lifers now have to take 2 weeks to get to max before they get bored, then it means your non-No-Lifers now take a whole month to just get one level, and they'll get bored too.

warrenashes

extending the leveling may delay the mass exodus that will exist once people hit max level but it doesn't fix the problem. The real issue is you are heavily penalized for open world pvping ( If they don't fight back and respawn and come back and kill you they can loot 1-3 pieces of equipped gear and most of your glint.) and even if you don't fight back the other party who killed you gets most of your glint. The game is designed to be a pvp game but the problem is they don't allow you to pvp lol. Make everything open world and make people fight for control of locations with better xp/drops and then prevent them from pvping. Makes no sense. Only real fix long term is somehow create replayable pve content because If new world proved anything it's that a system like this won't work. BDO is another good example but this game has so much less going for it than BDO in terms of pvp incentives and how fun it is to actually do.

fabulousfei

""""""The problem is that if you massively increase the XP Gain so that the No-Lifers now have to take 2 weeks to get to max before they get bored, then it means your non-No-Lifers now take a whole month to just get one level, and they'll get bored too.""""""

I disagree, and i dont increase Xp gain, i want the opposite I want to increase Leveling time to keep nolifers players in the "cycle". No nolifers aren't looking to reach "endgame" fast, most of them will play and enjoy the journey while nolifer will welcome grind on some very extended grind if it givs them some slight benefit.

Dev just need to had 3 to 5 new extended Level to 50, where going to Lv 55 would take months, it could give some bonus stats(or PvP oriented unique gears), and some interestering new skill related to guilds for PvP, but nothing that would drasticaly impact PvE.
Lineage 2 did something kinda similar in 2006 when they pushed the max Level from 75 to 78 with Age Of Splendor Update, these 3 new level where extremly long, and while no-lifers where grinding their ass to get these 3 extra Levels, the whole server had time to reach Lv75 in "peace".

It worked.

""""""""extending the leveling may delay the mass exodus that will exist once people hit max level but it doesn't fix the problem. The real issue is you are heavily penalized for open world pvping ( If they don't fight back and respawn and come back and kill you they can loot 1-3 pieces of equipped gear and most of your glint.) and even if you don't fight back the other party who killed you gets most of your glint. The game is designed to be a pvp game but the problem is they don't allow you to pvp lol. Make everything open world and make people fight for control of locations with better xp/drops and then prevent them from pvping. Makes no sense. Only real fix long term is somehow create replayable pve content because If new world proved anything it's that a system like this won't work. BDO is another good example but this game has so much less going for it than BDO in terms of pvp incentives and how fun it is to actually do."""""""

This is a different topic, but i dont find the PvP penality that harsh, it's the opposite I think it's fair. The only issue for me is the time required to clean your corruption after a PK, im not against it being risky and be able to drop, but having to farm for 45mins is way too long, and its exponential…

About having people to PvP, the biggest mistake im seeing for now is that guild dont fight for nodes, this is a zerg exploit that use vote.
But outdoor PvP and geolpolitics will only live if people are oudoor PvEing and fight for ressources, like i said previously if people reach max level within 2 weeks, they wont fight anymore for grinding area or farm spot for ressources, they will ONLY grief for a couple of week and quit.
Players need a carrot, this is how it is.

My other concern for now about practical PvP is the mount system, this way too easy to just instant summon a mounth and run away, or troll while being on mount.
Mount absolutely need a sumoning cast time of ~3sec that keep the player in place and that can be interrupted. (would also make sense to have the dismount instead of unsummon)

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