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[Feedback Request] Area of Carphin Shown in March Livestream

VaknarVaknar Member, Staff
edited April 2023 in General Discussion
Hello glorious community,

We’d like your feedback on the Alpha Two area of Carphin shown during the March 2023 Development Update Livestream.

To help guide this conversation, here are a few thought starters you can choose from:
  • How do you feel about the environment of Carphin? Do you like the mood, setting, lighting, etc?
  • What are your favorite open-world dungeon elements that you would like us to incorporate? Please provide examples when applicable.
  • Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the area of Carphin?
  • Have you experienced areas in MMOs that adaptively change and are dynamic? What do you like or dislike about those environments?
  • What are your favorite story arc elements in other MMOs and what would you like to see implemented into Ashes of Creation?
Please don’t feel limited by the thought starters above. Feel free to share anything you’d like about Ashes of Creation’s area of Carphin shown during the March Development Update

We’ll be compiling a report for the design team on Friday, April 14 2023, so please try to get your feedback into this thread by then!

Everyone here at Intrepid Studios looks forward to reading all the feedback you have to share!


Edit:

Be sure to check out the new prompts we've added to this OP!
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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Looks great. The visual and sound change was great. A bit low on mobs, but that's obviously alpha stage related.

    As for concerns, any potential push spells could fuck people over on that bridge.

    That mimic mob was nice and I definitely want way more mechanics similar to him. All kinds of traps, fakeouts and stuff like that.

    Some of my favorite tower dungeons were Cruma Tower and Tower of Insolence from Lineage 2 and they had dead ends with dangerous mobs, big rooms that would lock up if you woke up a boss there, and just maze-like internal room structure. We obviously didn't see higher lvls of Carphin, or even a few more rooms on the first floor - but I'd definitely love that kind of layout for it.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    Wow!! The tower and the area are stunning, the atmosphere is amazing, the fights were great. How the mimic chest moves around the room is amazing. The massive statues are amazing and the murals too. #mindblown Thanks for avoiding dailies as much as possible. It caught my attention that the enviroment is full of little details and props, every little detail added to the atmosphere

    Can Carphin's corruption spread around the areas around it, tainting the fauna and flora and becomming a problem for the node? This would tell the citizens they aren't killing the boss enough.

    Would be cool if there's an event which Carphin's bosses send raids against the node and let them roam the node.

    I have one concern about Carphin, in games where we have mounts we are used to just run through the entire area, ignore all mobs, and go for the boss. What can be done about this, can the area have an auto dismount flag? Or maybe have a door that demands a certain quantity of spilled blood from the mobs so the door opens again?

    About story arcs, story lines, I don't know enough yet to form an opinion. What I can tell is that I play Guild Wars 2 since 2012 and just today I checked that I never finished not even one of it's multiple story arcs... because they are meaningless, too easy and make no difference to my character or to the world.

    This stream was 10 out of 10.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Looks amazing, better than i expected, some things that i would say though and my opinion may change once i re watch it in 4K but the lighting is a bit over the top for everthing, i feel like if it was just toned down a tiny bit for everything, including combat it could do wonders for the visuals, another concern i have is the tower looks amazing however im trying to visualize in my mind how it will work with 1-2k players in the tower at the same time, im not sure how to fix it maybe make it instanced but open instanced for example each instance can hold up to 50 players before it makes a new instance, i dont really see how a pug group will even have a chance to compete

    on a side note, steven, go see a doctor lol i hope you are okay mate
  • AruganArugan Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    That showcase was incredible!!!!

    I would say maybe a little bit more mobs and maybe traps around the area.

    In addition, will corruption affect the way your character looks? Such as in SWTOR?
  • iznebulaiznebula Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    First off, I want to say the preview to the Tower of Carphin looked amazing!

    Few things I loved, was the atmosphere change that occurs when the story arc is triggered. I love the corruption theme, the mist covering the area, the general vibe of the zone was fantastic. I love the "Hoarder"(Mimic), this was the highlight for me. I love the idea of Mimics, playing the Dark Souls RPGs and the fact that any chests could be a Mimic and you had to prepare yourself for that being the case. So this being in the game is a huge positive for me.

    Additionally, I noticed the idle animation change to the Greatsword, where it now rests on the character's shoulder while OUT of Combat, which represents a dropped guard on the character's behalf since obviously he is OUT of Combat. In contrast, when the character is IN Combat, he holds it vertically, which represents an on guard state of the character, since now being IN Combat means danger is near. I love this and if it's available for all the weapons with their own unique idle state, would be awesome! Speaking of combat, considering the game is pretty much in an Alpha state and is a work in progress, I understand that what I am about to mention may simply be because of this. I noticed the effects, animations and sound design for smaller weapons were still the same and lack weight, it looks like it's unchanged from previous streams. Is that the direction that we are going or will it be continued to be iterated on? Hopefully once we get our hands on the Alpha I can have a more informed opinion on it, but as it is now, it's very weak compared to the rest of the game.

    Final thoughts, I really like the Story Arcs that will be occurring throughout the game and how each server would be different in how the story could play out. Now my question is, what determines the direction a Story Arc will take on any given server? Is it based of choices made at the player level and the majority of choices determines where the Arc moves on a specific server or will it be based on the server you choose upon making your character? Please clarify this if possible. Thank you and fantastic stream. 10/10!
  • JontaJonta Member
    Area looked very Elden Ring esc.

    Combat sound was bad to repetative and samey.

    The chest mob looked fun, may be a mini boss or some sort of hard mob at the forcourt before you gain entry into the tower.
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  • simpetarsimpetar Member, Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    I've had a growing concern over the past few streams showcasing various group play: visual clutter. The Tower area is gorgeous (and creepy), as are other zones shown this far.

    BUT

    Much of the zone and monster design is gone once combat starts. Ability and spell effects are so pronounced that they can obscure what's going on. At one point during today's showcase, there were so many flashes and lights going on at once, that it was nearly impossible to see the monster, let alone any relevant ground AoE. The party consisted of 4 characters, and it was bit messy already, yet the proposed max party size is 8 players. Big raids may be unbearable.

    Please, tone it down, or at the very least introduce some sort of opacity setting for other people's animations. It will be beneficial for both gameplay and art display.
  • How will players know this event is happening other than visually? Will there be a range limit on notifications? Will the event notification be strictly for citizens of the node that triggered it, or will it be a worldwide notification potentially bringing forth unwanted guilds/players?

    The way the bridge magically aligned was great. Corruption and feel was great. I'm imagining the quest giver at the opening to the bridge to be more of a presence, kind of like Heimdall the gatekeeper of the bifrost bridge in Thor.
  • edited March 2023
    The scenario had an impact on me because it feels alive, this is much better than World of Warcraft
    Congratulations

    Please, work on how the mobs fight, because at the momment they fight like trainnig dummies, but that fight with chest was really good. I bet the chest was inspired in Dark Souls. Mobs who do not react is what makes pve boring, but pve in the game Shadow of Colossus is amazing because the mos move around a lot. Pvp fights are good because players react a lot and run around
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    How do you feel about the direction the area of Carphin is taking, based on what we shared during the March Development Update?

    Visually impressive, but in the end story arcs will be zerged and repeated over and over again without any depth in it.

    What are your favorite open-world dungeon elements that you would like us to incorporate? Please provide examples when applicable.

    1000% the pyramid in the land of the dead in warhammer online. There is a huge end boss in front of the pyramid and in the pyramid itself are all sorts of traps.


    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the area of Carphin?

    Too much graphics, too less actual gameplay besides killing mobs.
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    I was overly impressed with that chest mimic creature. The way it jump across the room and felt "alive" vs other enemies that are just standing there and taking hit after hit. Would really like to see more of this.

    I do agree on other comments on the visuals of spells. I feel like you really need to pick and choose what should be the focus. Right now you have extreme visuals for the environment + extreme skill/spell visuals. It's a little bit too much, turn the visuals of spells down about 20-30%. It's overpowering the beautiful environments and settings you've created and worked so hard for.

    Overall, I just can't wait to play :blush:

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  • HeetCrusherHeetCrusher Member, Alpha Two
    You guys are doing a amazing job. It looked stunning and I can't wait to get lost in the world you created. Most of my (dungeon) experience comes from eveonline. There once you are in a exploration or wormhole you are constantly on look out for the enemy (pvp) while you are trying to complete it. Once we are in a dungeon can a enemy faction attack us from within or before we enter? Either way I am fine with. Keep pushing you all are doing a great job.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    The area looks amazing.

    The story arc explenation given by one of your devs got me to truly believe that this mmo will have an alive world. If you pull this off all the future mmos will try to immitate you. People will say "just another Ashes clone" for them.
    Way better than dailies. Let the mmo player play freely in the world. Those with grand designs may influence the server stories. The rest can enjoy the story.

    A bit of critisism. No sandals and commedy on dark locations. Dont ruin the mood of your best creations. Just put them on some random, non important areas.

    The quest giver npcs on such destroyed areas shouldnt just stand around out in the open. They should try to conseal themselves. Have them crouch a bit, hide behind a pilar or something.

    Transluscent red wolves... surely somethink more tormented could be farmed in this theater of horor. Put your best assets as mobs of your best areas. Detailed models. Not some red wolves.

    I am happy to hear that you keep saying "we wont rush and we wont give dates".
    Take your time and develop it right.
    Maybe some people need dopamine detox. They consume one game after the next (most of them early release or mediocre), always demanding for new releases, the next hit. Joy deminishes.
    I know I will enjoy playing AoC whenever it finally releases mostly because of your unique work and partly because I only play one of two good videogames per year for a while now. By the time AoC is ready my appetite will be enormous.
  • MilakMilak Member
    edited March 2023
    I loved just about everything on the stream. What bugged me a bit, though, was the placement of the statues leading up to the tower.

    So they build this tower and it becomes a school then they get a dean and decide to build a statue of the dean. Where do you put the statue? The most logical answer would be to put it directly in front of the tower and then having the subsequent deans built farther and farther away from the tower as they're appointed. The way they're set up now suggests that they knew exactly how many deans there would be in the tower's history since the last one is built right by the door.

    Two easy ways to fix that could be either a lore point about how the statues get moved (perhaps by magic) as new deans are appointed, or just reverse the order of them.

    As a side note, seeing the doors work would be nice. Clearly no average person would be able to move them and I can't imagine they'd just always be open.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    6 years later and there is still way too much emphasis on Aelar and Pyrian - even in the statuary - for the available lore.
    Couldn't be more disappointed.
    I abhor the critique of "lazy", but...
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    Vaknar wrote: »
    ....We’ll be compiling a report for the design team on Friday, March 14 2023, so please try to get your feedback into this thread by then!....

    @Vaknar You've currently got the compile-date as March 14th, instead of April 14th.

    Always jealous when I'm waiting for the YouTube video to be posted, to watch the updates. I always make it for the live broadcast, when I've got the day off, though!



  • The visual and sound 10/10, my only grip in every gameplay is the mobs, i don´t know if they are just placeholders , but yep they look really basic, easy with not much diversity or like none chemistry between them while attacking
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    6 years later and there is still way too much emphasis on Aelar and Pyrian - even in the statuary - for the available lore.
    Couldn't be more disappointed.
    I abhor the critique of "lazy", but...

    I want everything to be about us pyrians :wink:
    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • VaknarVaknar Member, Staff
    Vaknar wrote: »
    ....We’ll be compiling a report for the design team on Friday, March 14 2023, so please try to get your feedback into this thread by then!....

    @Vaknar You've currently got the compile-date as March 14th, instead of April 14th.

    Always jealous when I'm waiting for the YouTube video to be posted, to watch the updates. I always make it for the live broadcast, when I've got the day off, though!




    Nice catch! Thank you ^_^
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  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    At some point AoC should consider providing a sample of the zone ambiance music along with the visuals to give a more complete sense of the environment being provided.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I had no particular positives toward this area.

    I really appreciate the effort put in by the environment team, and I wouldn't say it was 'lacking something' really, but it also didn't make me feel anything much. I think it's just a visual style issue, everything is large, but it's large in a way that doesn't feel like people ever actually did anything reasonable there.

    So it gives me the same feeling as Alpha-1, where I don't quite feel connected to my character consistently, and feel more like I'm controlling a miniature on a game board.

    I don't think this is a particularly bad presentation to use, so I don't really want it changed, but it seems to limit my ability to enjoy the areas, because I feel like in this case, I'd prefer a different view. A 3D game relies on characters moving around and changing the direction they are facing, with only an arc in front of them visible.

    The design style used in Ashes is too 'panoramic' for my tastes here, the environments are the type that I would fall in love with in a top-down or isometric 'sprite' game where I am constantly looking at them and seeing them from the same perspective and can really appreciate their coolness in that way.

    But as an example, when 90% of my screen is filled with just 'stairs' and then just flat ground with a big door at the end, I'm not as likely to pay attention to the statues or the cool cracks in the ground, I'll pay attention to the door which is taking up 10% of my FOV and move closer to it, causing it to take up more of said FOV.

    I feel like the design principles being used are failing my personal preference in terms of trading 'visual immersion' for 'scale' so I don't hate it, but I don't think it would ever trigger that weird nostalgia I get for certain other games where I just 'get the urge to feel like I'm in that space' and it makes me want to log in (even to games I don't much like).

    I could rant about this a lot (I've built up very precise understandings of the way this affects me over time) but I think going too deep into it before I can play it wouldn't be helpful. I can only verify that Ashes usually gives me this feeling and only 2-3 environments in Alpha-1 did not. (Cave near Moonhollow Beach, area where Jermaine spawns, and the path between Winstead and the nearby dungeon).
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • VhinxVhinx Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    the mimic mob looked so good. As for my other thoughts they have been mentioned multiple times already
    The Order-
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  • Lordhavok69Lordhavok69 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    -How do you feel about the direction the area of Carphin is taking, based on what we shared during the March Development Update?
    The unlocked/evolving is an epic way to introduce an area like this, great idea. The artwork is sweet, dark, broodish and bloody is working. The mob choices seem pretty specific and the introduction of a trap mob seems like a very promising addition.

    -What are your favorite open-world dungeon elements that you would like us to incorporate? Please provide examples when applicable.
    None specifically, but I would be worried about people attempting to power level or zerg farm.

    -Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the area of Carphin?
    The ease of the mobs, seems kind of small and unthreatening. Possibly the bridge, might lead to someone pulling too early and the wolf knocking someone down if not aggro'd properly. A little bit of worry about the placement of the mobs right inside the first room, the door is entered with an angled view meaning ranged would lose LOS on the mobs inside, would this cause issues with combat, strategy or possible cheesing of that first mob by just door blocking with the tank and bombing the area.

    -Other ideas/concerns?
    The landscape for combat looks amazing, area is aesthetic and nice, matching the lore. Would love to see the same area with more mobs and more difficulty to see how the landscape plays out for camera clipping, target switching and group/mob maneuvering. Cheers!
  • SweatycupSweatycup Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    How do you feel about the direction the area of Carphin is taking, based on what we shared during the March Development Update?
    - It totally gives me a Curse of Strahd vibe from dnd. It looks amazing. I’d wish the surroundings had more life around it like a corrupted village or something but i suppose if the tower is the centerpiece and thats the history, well enough for me then. I think it could use more ray tracing through the bloody fog on the inside through the stained glass. Still keep it broody moody and dark just a tinch (personal preference). As well the fog itself would be so cool if it was volumetric and flowing. The stillness throws me off as if we are stuck at a still-point. Im not sure that was intended?

    What are your favorite open-world dungeon elements that you would like us to incorporate? Please provide examples when applicable.
    - I love the fact you all incorporate difficult terrain like having to jump from one ledge to the other and i think that in pvp when guilds fight over these raids/dungeons it will slow down the madness so you can continue to contest in those with obstacles. I did not see any in this raid but the one where you revealed ue5 at the end was a great example. Traps might do just as well indiana jones style.. that might be interesting. But balancing for pvp might make for a unfair advantage.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the area of Carphin?
    - The transition to phases could be less subtle. Perhaps a larger crackle from the tower for a longer period of time or corruption enveloping the area slowly (Was way too instant). The only thing that really told me it changed was the fog. Again not sure if planned but the fog flowing down and out till it envelopes the area would be a nice touch to make it feel alive. Not too subtle yet not to overwhelming. A more diverse unique mobs like others said besides the wolves would be nice. Why would there be wolves anyways so far in? I get that corruption corrupts the area around it and creatures but perhaps i'm sure there must be better options so close to the center. I do support the fiend golem however. Perhaps inspiration from the flying monkeys in wizard of oz could do? The skys seem a bit too barren to fill that space. My eyes want to gleam up at the tower but around it is dead and seems not very hostile. I am excited to see the bosses and see if we ever find out what happened to that teleporter lady… you dont expect me to believe she is gone forever after vanishing do you? I like also being able to follow the art on the buildings as it tells a story. I prefer to let the environment tell the story then reading through quest logs to get the gist.

    Side note:
    Perhaps ive misled my belief but i thought being in a corrupted environment corrupts you? "I understand we are still early and things may not be in yet."
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited April 2023
    The weapon hits felt good, nice speed, nice sense of momentum and impact

    The effects are beautiful, they are very sparkly at the momment giving the feeling of metal hitting metal and throwing sparks around. The effects are a bit fat tough, they are covering too much of the screen and it had only 4 people. I like the effects speed, they move fast and disapear quickly, but they are a bit fat atm
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    Dygz wrote: »
    6 years later and there is still way too much emphasis on Aelar and Pyrian - even in the statuary - for the available lore.
    Couldn't be more disappointed.
    I abhor the critique of "lazy", but...

    imagine having emphasis on Aela and Pyrian in a livestream showcasing a aela and pyrian dungeon in the homeland of the aela

    can't wait to learn more about the nikua when they showcase content in the ren'kai homeland showing a ren'kai dungeon
    img]
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  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    Combat still way to flashing with visual clutter should be toned back somewhat some flashy spells are fine but basic attacks and thing defnetly need toned back on its effects. combat swing speeds seem a little to quick aswell imo (but might be fast for the feel of combat which i cant tell unless im playing the game).

    The mimic is fantastic would love to see more things like this along with traps/hidden passages and so on :)
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    Environment
    • Scale is good - I love the massiveness of the environment, it works really well with the player camera height.
    • Variation in terrain levels is good - makes me want to check what's under the tower
    • Interior was captivating and beautiful - however, the entrance we saw wasn't a believable space in my mind given the enormous doors we passed through to enter it - the flow between the two spaces doesn't quite gel. Is it possible to have some sort of short corridor/chamber immediately behind the doors that then opens into the space shown? I think it would help to reset the player's experience of space as they transition from outside to inside. It just feels like there should be another set of doors or arches behind the first set of enormous doors.
    • Lighting is good outside but feels glary inside - not sure what it is, but especially around the walls inside, it's hard to see the floor.
    • Blood Magic Theme - can I request you add a mild bleed to all players in the area around the event? I imagine the curse is still hungry for blood, and we're fresh meat walking into the lion's den - so it makes sense thematically that the city would try to steal our own blood too. It would add another layer of oppressiveness to the atmosphere in the environment.

    Dynamic Event System
    • Story Arc Design Direction - yes yes yes! I love the direction of what you're doing with the way these systems branch and tell the server's story, unearth opportunities for lore nerds to find hidden objectives and the way PoI's evolve. I have a question: do you have a way to test the variance of outcomes between different servers (what if all the servers choose the same outcome)? How do you decide the threshhold requirements that trigger different branches?
    • Dependencies - if later arcs are dependent on previous arc branches, what happens to later arcs when the previous arc event respawns and players change branches? Is there a delayed period between the propogation of these changes as the arcs re-align to the new world-state?
    • Event Signalling - the rooftop explosion is a great start, but can we also have a more persistent and clear signal that lingers for the duration of the event? Something that has a little movement from afar is good because it suggests activity in the area. For example, a river of blood spilling down the side of the tower while the event is active. Or a precursor to the explosion? E.g. in subnautica, the explosion of the mothership is foreshadowed multiple times ahead of the actual explosion happening - I imagine that I'll often miss the moment the explosion occurs, simply because I'm not going to be looking at the tower all the time. On the other hand, if these events occur on the regular, it makes sense to save precursor signalling for the one-off world events.

    Incorporate the non-combat systems
    A suggestion for future branching systems: rather than giving all players open access to any objective in an event, also create objectives that require specific roles - involve the player's specialization choices. If a role group collectively fails/completes a certain objective, you can create response objectives that widen/change the objectives available to other players. This would create socially collaborative dynamism that can still be reduced to an A/B result. For example:
    • Charlie specializes in mining
    • An optional side-objective is to mine rare crimson shards in the area to blow up a locked door. Charlie and other Suppliers collect the required material, but a key is found and they no longer need to blow up the door.
    • (trigger) the excess crimson shards collected spawn a new objective asking all players to investigate bookshelves to find research about crimson shards. They discover there's an old purification device in the lower chambers that transforms the crimson shards - but it requires 3 mages and other materials to operate.
    • etc. etc.
    • As a result, the influence of blood magic in the area is amplified, and the boss difficulty rises significantly.
    If you could make the objectives more tailored to a player's specialisations, and have those objectives create follow-on objectives for other players, that would be oarsum. It also provides a natural way for players to discover new/hidden crafting materials in event areas without explicitly telling them about it.

    EDIT: Also - the blood magic tigers look like they're made of fairy dust. I think you can fix this by changing their death animation: instead of a mist of sparkles that fly away, try turning off the emission on the mist and have it fall to the floor - almost like the magic has left the droplets of blood to splatter into a puddle.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • AlacriteAlacrite Member, Alpha Two
    Will there be multiple story endings beyond just whether or not it's a failure or success? I specifically want to know regarding the end to major parts of the story (chapters) including the finale.
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