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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
How do they make you feel?
They immerse, thats obvious. But they are memmorable, they stand out so much you cannot just be in the specific zone and forget the music is there. Unique notes repeat in each of this zone giving both unique vibe and setting - should I feel enchanted, scared, in awe?
How important are music and ambiance to you, and what examples from your favorite games demonstrate this best?
It is extremely important for reasons explained in previous question.
There's so much to learn from that OST, I can't dive into it all. I'll just mention one little thing that I've noticed a lot: The songs with vocals tend to be the most epic/enjoyable even when the vocals are indecipherable or literally nonsesnse (because they use some made-up language for some songs). Even if I'm not paying attention to the words (because I'm in the middle of a fight or something), the vocals still manage to convey a lot more feeling than instrumentals can do alone.
So don't shy away from using vocals, even for generic battle music or ambient zone music, even if it's nonsense vocals or humming or whatever, as long as it helps to enhance the tone/feeling that is intended by the music.
And when it comes to epic boss fights, you can't beat Stormblood's Triumph:
And the Worm's Tail:
FF14 does this thing where they interweave the main theme of an expac in most of the tracks for that expac. Its really well done. If we take the example of Triumph above, you will hear parts of that in several tracks that play within Stormblood:
Via its music, it keeps the overall theme of the Expac, which is about Rebellion from an Colonizing force. OF Resistance. Their is plenty for Ashes to learn by looking at what FF14 does with its music.
Also I really like this Dawntrail "Mid" boss theme:
And I don't know if this one would fit for Ashes, but when it comes to a more Mechanical boss, I really like this "Locus" theme for the Alexander fights in FF14:
For nodes BGM my idea is to make the music matches the race it follows. For example in this game the town is kinda elf style, and its BGM is in elf language which is so great.
And for another city which let's say is connected to a heavy reach story you can make it has a BGM that tells you the story in some kind. Check this one
I swear i never caried for BGM but when i enter these towns i stay for the music
Skyrim's Dragonborn certainly does make me feel like I am going to battle. I don't know; there is something very epic about that song.
This one was from a dungeon where players had to kill waves of monsters and protect an NPC from said monsters. It was pretty cool for that specific dungeon. This one would not go with AOC, but it still is a song I used to like in that dungeon, especially in a game where I would turn all music off; yet, once entering this dungeon, I will enable music only to hear that song while butchering mobs. Felt appropriate
Now, I have to admit i play most games with no music. AOC is one of the (or the only game) I am playing with music and full sound effects.
<br>
KNUT AVENSTROUP HAUGEN
COMPOSITEUR DE FILMS ET DE JEUX VIDÉO
KNUT AVENSTROUP HAUGE
https://www.knutavenstrouphaugen.com/
I know this is not technically from an MMORPG but this song is legendary to me for establishing the tone and atmosphere of a game:
Otherwise there is one thing that I think is cool in FFXIV that I wish more games did. I am talking about bosses that have the songs change with the phase change in a raid boss. I think some other games have done stuff like this, but not the the extent that FFXIV has that I have seen.
Most MMORPGs I will keep the music off and listen to my own stuff, but FFXIV has proven itself to me when it comes to new bosses. I will at least listen to the boss music until I clear the fight to get the full experience. The fact that this is the only game I have ever wanted to do that for is proof to me that there is something special about FFXIV boss music.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/60838/dear-bear-mccreary-inon-zur-and-the-sound-melodies-ambience-and-music-team-of-intrepid#latest
I think music is something totally different, I can't say it's the most important thing because it's something so different from the sense of “importance” but music in a MMORPG has that “something special” that can change the whole atmosphere for a MMORPG.
I hope Intrepid takes the importance due, I understand that it can not be 100% focused on music because it costs a lot but with good passionate people who want to do things right, adapt and improve can achieve an incredible music, innovative and unique that reflects what is Ashes, which reflects what is the DNA of Ashes.
But if there's one game I tough of that had this amazing immersive music that fit throughout the game it was contrast
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NOG6gd3O4OI&list=PLVG17pQ_xZn-YwxEP2JU2Qj8QLfc6-0Zb
The added bonus for me was voice + the natural aspect of sound while you played. It wasn't always a background melody - sometime it was the sound of a phonogram or a memory. The sound design in this game is just great. The immersion was perfect.
As far as I'm concern a good music is tie to the feeling but an amazing music is tie to the experience. The more you can make me believe this town listen to this music - the more likely I'll respond to it. You wanna make me believe goblin have their own music festival, go for it. If you wanna guide my feeling through music, it'll likely be tune down.
1. Music as a reward for specific behaviors
This means using music as a way to teach the player, or as a way to encourage them to behave in specific ways.
I think we already saw some of this approach during the bard demonstration, because of how the player's ability usage can add layers to the music, which is really neat for encouraging the player to play a certain way, like weaving together different abilities and having that represented through the player's audio and enhancing the actual experience through gameplay performance, which is very cool.
I also really like when gameplay and music sync together whenever possible (like when the buttons you click are at the same time as the beats in the music or done at the same rhythm). When this happens I think it makes for a more fun and immersive experience.
2. Musical storytelling
A- Dynamic and reactive music tells a story:
This reactivity can also be enhanced to be more impactful through associating key story ideas with specific musical themes, in order to allow the player to experience the storytelling through changes in the music itself and the lessons being reinforced through the music, but in a more seamless and immersive way, which is why I like to see techniques like leitmotif being used whenever possible.
Just like how music can be layered to reflect changes in gameplay performance (such as the bard example), I also like when music reflects changes in the story, and is layered to reflect different game elements being added or subtracted at any given time, as shown in this vid:
B- Juxtapose leitmotif alongside story elements:
Basically it can be any specific thing that causes any kind of change to the game-state at any moment in time, which could be interpreted as a "change in the story" and an opportunity to leverage music for more impactful storytelling moments.
Based on this, I think it would be wise to make extra good use of Leitmotif to best represent these various story aspects and to best reflect changes in the player's personal and overarching story experience. This 3 part series is an excellent overview of Leitmotif and its application in games:
Basically leitmotif is just associating a specific idea (like a unique game-state or specific story-beat) with an accompanying musical theme, in order to use that psychological assocation for storytelling purposes.
I highly recommend checking out this channel (Gamescore Fanfare) for great examples of how leitmotif has been used in some of the most legendary games to create very immersive and impactful storytelling moments.
C- Associating leitmotif with predicates to tell a story systemically
The other interesting part about this is that since the storytelling occurs systemically, you can inject storytelling into pretty much any system without having to control the pacing. Their could be story within a "big picture" system like story arcs, while also having storytelling in very small scale, fast-paced systems like a player's personal story within a combat encounter, as long as the predicates and music is reactive enough and deliberately designed with story in mind.
I think these types of things are very interesting ways of delivering story and reinforcing that story through musical storytelling methods. I think it would be pretty cool if the key narrative systems like events, story arcs, and other predicates utilized these types of techniques.
D- Curated musical experiences within a dynamic world:
This could be like how dungeons have a scripted musical experience as you progress throughout them, but it is predicated on whether the player triggers that musical progession as they push through each phase of the dungeon.
This could be cool if used in a variety of ways, such as players exploring the plains where a bunch of creatures live, and triggering a predicate that causes a stampede of creatures near the player, creating a unique visual and audio experience. I think this can be used to create amazing exploration and storytelling experiences through the music and level design, similar to what Abzu did, as explained in this video.
- the most relevant part of the vid for this example is from around 1:40 to around 4:10
E- Applying Leitmotif, examples and case studies:
There are a bunch more examples on this channel with some great and interesting case studies on applying Leitmotif for musical storytelling within games, and for making evocative sound tracks. I recommend checking them out if you have the time and interest to do so, such as the case studies done on:
- sayonara wild hearts, turning music into a video game
- how going underwater changed game music
- making infinite music for no man's sky
- how pyre sings your story
- and a few others
3. Providing identity/association
4. Short-sighted vs overarching emotional impact of music within the story
If the story is set up to be an emotional rollercoaster, then obviously the music should reinforce the intended feeling at any given time, but it should also account for feeling the player will get as a result of interpreting the story as a whole and the overarching narrative the player is experiencing at any given time, which could be things like story revelations or changes in perspective that may influence how the player perceives what is going on in that moment, which may or may not conflict with what they are currently experiencing through the gameplay and music.
For instance, imagine in the example I gave earlier about the goblin behavior, and how perspective might change on a certain story concept such as a goblin behavior that represents cooperation one minute, is later perceived as abandonment due to changes in story context. That predicate might use leitmotif (a musical theme) to represent the idea of cooperation initially, which would be the specific short-term emotional connection (such as the theme gives you a feeling of cooperation), but does that musical theme properly capture the story message/feeling that is delivered when the player experiences that revelation and change in perspective when that theme now represents a different idea in the story (which would be abandonment in this case) or does is simply have that short-sighted perspective of capturing the specific feeling of cooperation even amidst changes in the story- beats? That change in perspective would be the emotional impact of the musical theme from a more long-term "big picture" point of view within the overarching story. It would be cool if the leitmotifs could both capture that initial feeling and emotion (cooperation), while still accounting for different feelings/messages that come from changes in the story context and player perspective (abandonment) when the are re-employed throughout the story or experience; which would be a really cool experience when utilizing leitmotif and delivering it through story predicates.
There is just nothing like it when there is great set up in the story for emotionally impactful storytelling moments and the music just perfectly fits the scenario to drive those moments home.
- 8-bit Music Theory is a good youtube channel that has a lot of insightful content and cool examples on how some of the games and sound tracks successfully invoke certain feelings through their musical composition.
5. Many examples of evocative music:
Overall my preferences are for music that is pleasant and has a nice vibe that I can listen to over extended periods of time, regardless of whether it is meant to be more intense and build tension, or if it is meant to be soothing and relaxing, and a lot of my examples show good ways of doing each and also ways to combine both styles in an effective way. There are also a lot of examples of how to blend other types of feelings/themes as well while retaining that pleasant aspect. In other words I think the music should always be pleasant and have depth to it while still portraying whatever the intended theme or emotion is.
A- Soothing/relaxing tracks:
- Calming puzzle music from Crosscode:
These are some of my all time favorites. You know the music is good when you spend a couple hours trying to solve a single puzzle in the game and you are just vibing while having a good time and not getting frustrated, due to the quality music making the experience enjoyable and pleasant.
- Relaxing war game music:
(the above one gets better around 3:27)
(pretty sure Bear McCreary made that one, great job!)
Here is a couple other great tracks from different war games:
- The chill vibe of DK Country:
- Amazing Final Fantasy tracks:
This next one is one of my all time favorites, I think its a masterpiece from beinning to end, I love how it shifts between different phases but still feels cohesive, and I love the layers and depth that it has:
For the above, it feels "divine". It also makes me feel triumph, "new beginnings". It feels like "the unknown", while also feeling epic in a way.
The above one makes me feel reflective on the past, weariness from a journey, and that its finally over, and to keep moving forward.
The above one feels like an imperial march acrossed vast distances, and it feels like conquering/expanding.
- RPG musical gems:
The above one feels peaceful, mysterious, and like you are in a lost area has been preserved and stood the test of time.
To me the above one feels like a song of "reaching your destination", discovery, "a revelation of yourself and where you need to be", and comfort.
The above one feels like a song of friendship, teamwork, and overcoming.
The above one feels like solitude, isolation, and peace.
The above one feels like "the journey", and moving fast.
The above one feels like the "unforgiving and ongoing passage of time", accepting reality, and the fragile nature of life.
The above one feels like "building a future", thriving, and contentment.
The above one is similar to the last one but a different style that I like a lot.
(for the above, skip to 00:30)- this feels like love, forgiveness, and "correcting past mistakes".
The above one feels like "its going to be okay", and "as long as we are together".
The above one feels like peace, contentment, and "enjoying the scenery/atmosphere and each other's company" as if you are by a bonfire outside at night with friends and family.
It would be cool if there is different musical themes to represent different mode states and racial aesthetics. I could see something like this next one as a drawf theme.
- A Halo classic
- Minecraft Gems
(the above one starts at around 2 mins)- to me this feels like "the passing of seasons", nature, and just living life. it also kind of feels like something more is out there that you are trying to reach and connect with.
The above one feels like being "lost in thought", and just kind of floating along wherever the wind and current of life takes you.
- The soothing story and emotion in the theme of Tetris Effect
- Pleasant instrumental/vocal examples
The above one feels like something "experiencing something otherwordly", and an epic discovery.
(the above one picks up around 2:20)- this feels like survival, depression, reflecting on your past, but making do with what you have.
(the above is from 00:05 to 2:10)- this feels like "dancing underwater", and observing/appreciating the cool things around you.
(the above one picks up around 1:00)- this feels like "being ready to face what lies ahead", confronting challenge, and marching onward.
The above one feels like being sad but hopeful at the same time.
The above one feels like standing up to save everything you care about, sacrifice, and "succeeding but not getting to enjoy the victory".
It would be interesting to hear musical themes that utilize more unique sounds, such as vocals. I could see something like the song in this next video being a really unique and pleasant theme, while also demonstrating how music can deliver powerful emotional impact within the right context and when used as a storytelling tool, as you can experience by watching the full video:
The music bit is at 2:35, but I recommend turning on the subtitles and watching the full video to get the context and story behind the song.
- Great movie vibes:
The above one feels like "an epic story coming to a close" but also "the beginning of a new story" as a result. Especially when it picks up during the orchestral parts later on.
The above one feels "overwhelming", "existential", but also "what it means to be human". It also feels like emptiness, but also the idea that "love transcends time and space" or "the impossible made possible" as another interesting way to put it.
The above one feels like "the wild west", lawlessness, and "bringing order to chaos".
The above one feels like "the subtlety of deceit", like "a wolf in sheep's clothing".
There is obviously tons of examples from movies that made great use of music for emotional impact. Its too many to name, but its good to keep that on your radar if looking for inspiration. Other examples could include Pixar/Dreamworks films which tend to be good at delivering strong emotional impact, like in this one-
- the storytelling and emotion of this track is very memorable to me.
- Some classic retro/8-bit inspired bangers
I like how the one above sounds a bit grittier/dark, and feels like a song of vengeance, justice, and standing up against oppression.
(The above is around 2:30 long on repeat)- I think this one is a good example of building excitement and giving a feeling of speed, but without being too chaotic/annoying.
(The above one is around 1:40 long on repeat)- I like how this one feels "daunting" or like you have a long and tough journey ahead of you.
I think the one above is another example of building excitement, while still sounding smooth and good.
B- tavern/shop music:
You could get creative with bass, percussion, and other non-traditional instruments/sounds to allow for more complex beats/vocals so players can have some additional unique music options to set their own vibe.
I also like the idea of having some "riverdance" type vibes for playing in the tavern, such as the piece that Azherae linked called "The beginning of a festival" which I think sounds nice.
- Chill lofi type hangout vibes for social spaces
Here are a few fun remixes that I could imagine being played in a house party of tavern setting.
imagine adapting some music like this to set a chill vibe for people to hang out and relax in the tavern:
- Club vibe for tavern/house parties
- or this one cuz sometimes you just want to get funky:
- I mean who wouldn't want to get turnt up in their tavern to something like a star wars cantina remix?!:
C- Intense/boss/dungeon music:
Here are some examples that masterfully deliver on building tension and intensity while still being very enjoyable to listen to and having long-term listening value.
- Awesome tracks from the Forever Winter
These are sort of the "main themes":
This next one is my favorite of the bunch. Its a bit longer but I like the sounds and vibe throughout it a lot.
These are some of the more 'specifically themed' tracks that are also great:
(The above one picks up around 1:50)
(The above one picks up around 1:20)
- Storytelling and hype build up in a Pokemon theme
- ramps up in response to you gaining some momentum during the fight (at 1:27)
- it gets muffled when you lose momentum (2:37)
- and gets you hyped up when at the hardest part of the fight (4:11). I think this part is the most emotional when the fans start chanting. I think this is because at this part of the fight you are using all of your strongest tools to win the fight when it is at its hardest, and you feel like that is why all of the spectators are there, to see a good show and because everyone there enjoys and appreciates the thrill of the battle, as they all sing in unison and anticipate how things will play out.
- The iconic battlefield theme
- Intense mob-grinding theme from Crosscode
(The above one picks up around 00:35)- to me this feels like being "in the zone", destroying everything in your path, and it just sounds like fun and "the ultimate experience".
- Intense but pleasant remixes
- Epic Halo classic
- FF's uneasy but calming dungeon theme
- for the above one, I love how there is a feeling of uneasiness to represent the challenge and stress of the dungeon, while still being calming and nice to listen to.
- The flow-state inducing boss theme from Armored Core 6
Thanks for reading!
1. Eversong woods all scores, the blood elf starting zone. This song captures beauty mystery and their eerie past. Mostly the cello part i think is well composed. The simplicity and space gives it something hypnotic
2.Mulgore song Plains Day 2 at 8:22, this song feels like sunrise. An opening like this for a plains or savannah sunrise in the game would be fantastic
3. Stormwind city - nothing felt as grand as entering this city. whenever you had travelled here from near or far.
4. Felwood, if i think it sounds eerie and corrupted but you also hear the different factions Horde and Alliance
5. Warsong gulch sounds representing two sides of a conflict/faction music.
6. A lord of the rings song with a great returning theme.
Strong suits of the music in wow is that its composed as themes with a beginning and an end. They emerge from a state of no music. You hear wind, critters animals and the music surfaces up from that surrrounding. It tells you something about where you are and somtimes something about what factions are present.
In Ashes your node is your faction and i would love to se that reinforced by music so that for instance each race has their own music score for each level of a node. But it could also be done through the node type, what does a divine node going to war sound like compared to a military one. Or do you hear any of the enemy faction music on the ruins of a sieged city
I think having music playing non-stop should not be a thing. Sometimes more can be said or conveyed with less. Let the music dip out occasionally and let the soundscape come in. I want to hear the wind, rain, insects, birds, the sounds of nature, etc. Have the ambience and visuals pull me into the space and immerse me. You can do so much more by creating compelling soundscapes especially at interesting POIs, and blending them with beautiful scores, and ambient tones.
I think as you mount up and begin to travel, as you move from one biome to another, or as combat starts, then you have music sweep in and paint whatever story it needs to tell in that situation. Having Varied combat suites and ambient suites can go a long way in game where you will be spending hours out grinding in one way or another. Whether that is killing mobs and questing, or working on your professions, you want the music and ambience to feed into those, not be simply muted by the player, which I feel is all too common.
Thats my two cents for what it's worth.
For those that only shared a link to song(s), we'd love to know why that music is special to you. How does it make you feel, and what do you specifically like about it? Please feel free to elaborate! We have a new Dev Discussion going out very soon, but we'll continue to check this thread
it destroys the immersive atmosphere
always unbearable to hear
it's the first thing you deactivate when you access the interface
it's a waste of time and money for development, you'd be better off concentrating on the content of the game, like adding leveling quettes!
The reason I like a certain song is quite simple: it has to trigger some kind of emotion or fit an ambience.
Combat music: I usually don't enjoy combat music at all. It just generates a feeling of haste but it is not pleasing to listen to. one exemption is the Warhammer Vermintide 2 soundtrack. Best combat music in my opinion.
Ambience: I love the Divinity original sin 2 soundtrack. It just triggers heavy emotions and soaks you directly into the world. One of my absolute favourite tracks is "mist in the mire".
A general rule: simple music is more pleasing than complex music. perfect example is. WoW. Retail sucks while the classic or even warcraft 3 shine.