While leveling itself is a bottleneck, the options to level should not be bottlenecked. Such as leveling by killing monsters, completely quests, exploring dungeons, large monster raids, nodes, caravans, or various types of PVP.
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ApokMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I liked what FFXI did, currency or xp rewards were extremely rare in quests instead were used for unlocking areas, maps, gear, jobs, and some other things like job specific progress or level cap increase, if you wanted decent experience you had to form an optimized 6 person party due to the game not just having tough overworld mobs they also cut your experience off once you're so many levels above the mob.
one other thing they did with FFXI is gave people weapon skills that chained together. huge list of combos that chained but limited at low levels so you had to go over what you had for a party comp and figure out your weapon skill combos are. Depending on the combo element you adapt to the world as you leveled and played with other people. there are the usual leveling spots but the system created a little more depth and diversity in finding places to level up
Dunno how Ashes will handle that. But I hope that either quests give lots of XP or the "braindead" variante of just dyeing the ground of Verra red with all the XP creatures blood.
If people wanna go slow that is okay.
That is up to them.
But I be honest here I will take all the shortcuts I can find.
Other people can powder their ego with stupid stuff I don't care about like doing things "the tough way".
That's not how I view mob grinding. The fun part for me is practising my rotation and adjusting builds/gear to try and more optimally defeat the monsters. Maybe if I open with the long cast, then land a dot, get a mage shield up before the mob gets to melee range, then wand them down so that by the time they die and I engage on the next monster I have my mana back. Oh, now I am in a new zone and maybe I need to add another spell to my rotation and it makes me start to run out of mana over time and need to drink. Maybe if I upgrade my mana regen slightly I don't need to drink, better go to town and see if there are any gear upgrades I can get.
There is a rhythm to mob grinding that can be fun to try and lock in. Like playing an instrument or something. I can easily spend an hour in combat with an enjoyable character trying to find and maintain that rhythm.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Use item quest, discover area quest, crafting quests, there are constellation quests, get quest item quests (not always the same as a resource) kill X players quests, talk to X npc quests, ect.
I expect to see most of those as Battlepass Tasks.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Yeah for sure. I would definitely like to see some leveling walls in place that require me to engage with the player economy in some way in order to progress.
I hate player economy and try to avoid it as much as possible.
Gamers are greedy.
I hate player economy and try to avoid it as much as possible.
Gamers are greedy.
This is why i gave away at least One Kael'daelar Sword-hilt for free on a Deathknight around Cataclysm in WoW, when everyone tried to extort SIXTY. THOUSAND. GOLD. out of every single Swort-hilt that started the Questline for that Runeblade.
Just to piss off all these People who think they can extort and "press out" so much Money from People with Rare Items that these People need.
But it was a "Human Deathknight", so to say Warcraft III Lore Race for Deathknights - "AND" he had a decent Name and not something like Banana-pie or something else.
This is why he got it for free. Around Thirty People in the Trading Chat blocked me that Day when he and i made my Deed public.
It was glorious. I enjoyed the Salt and regretted nothing.
I could go either way on questing to get me to max-level.
Will definitely go through the full questline the 1st time through the game, though. It'll be *new*; The 2nd and 3rd toons I'll be more-open to alternative-means of levelling - especially if it's faster.
Hopefully there'll be things like dark/light and mean/nice options, in questing. If we're to do the SAME quest-line to level each time, it'd be more-interesting to be able to play it different ways.
Yeah for sure. I would definitely like to see some leveling walls in place that require me to engage with the player economy in some way in order to progress.
I hate player economy and try to avoid it as much as possible.
Gamers are greedy.
Use item quest, discover area quest, crafting quests, there are constellation quests, get quest item quests (not always the same as a resource) kill X players quests, talk to X npc quests, ect.
I expect to see most of those as Battlepass Tasks.
Tf you mean battlepass? This is an rpg game, if there is an immersion breaking UI hub where you get the same exact quests/progression as everyone else, I'm quitting day one lmao. This ain't fortnite shun.
Do I think quests alone should get a player to the level cap? Naw, not even including the Main Storyline Quests incorporated into the pool if considered also. There are multiple ways to earn experience. I personally love to grind dungeons repetitively to help gain some levels, or even engage in lots of PVP also.
I actually wonder how Intrepid is going to balance the experience between all of the sources which yield experience, I think that's the most important thing to consider when answerin' this question.
From what I remember though during one of the livestreams on Twitch, it's going to be an arduous task to reach max level and you will have to put in a hefty amount of effort to reach that threshold.
I am obsessed with anything magic.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Dygz, its kind of a major focus of the game.
We'll be seeing a ton if it everywhere.
Did I say it wasn’t a major focus of Ashes.
Steven’s mention of Economic Warfare during the Inventory demo is more clarification that I’m not in the Target Audience for Ashes.
I will be ignoring the Economy almost completely.
When I want to experience Economy in an MMORPG, I will play some other game.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Tf you mean battlepass? This is an rpg game, if there is an immersion breaking UI hub where you get the same exact quests/progression as everyone else, I'm quitting day one lmao. This ain't fortnite shun.
I did not say “same exact quests/progression” nor did I say “as everyone else”.
I said the activities you listed as Quests, I expect to see as Tasks on the Ashes Battlepass.
Tf you mean battlepass? This is an rpg game, if there is an immersion breaking UI hub where you get the same exact quests/progression as everyone else, I'm quitting day one lmao. This ain't fortnite shun.
I did not say “same exact quests/progression” nor did I say “as everyone else”.
I said the activities you listed as Quests, I expect to see as Tasks on the Ashes Battlepass.
Isn't a battlepass just an extra paid fee for some additional seasonal content of the exact quests/progression as everyone else or something?
AFAIK Ashes is a subscription based game, so battlepass doesn't make sense.
Ashes is an RPG, so battlepass makes even less sense.
On top of that, the whole system of replayability in the game is the rise and fall and rise again of nodes. Hence, "Ashes of Creation". If the devs make any more content after launch, that is where the time should be spent, fleshing out the existing system with more content happening in the node cycles and creating good reasons to disrupt and destroy nodes to keep the game renewing itself. This is the whole point of the "dynamic world".
Nowhere in any of that does a "battlepass" make sense. Unless when you say "battlepass" you mean something else completely that Ashes is already planning on doing.
The latter one usually wins simply because it allows people who don't have time to devote to 'learning to play their class well' to get higher level first and then worry about that. Which also makes it the most efficient method for nearly everyone (since the mob-killer type can't usually get the quest exp once they hit the cap and therefore should always just do the quests too).
But I think that's the point of balancing in itself. Questing has its own kind of speed, so grinding mobs at optimal speeds should be right around that as well. Optimal here being "at the peak of one's abilities".
In other words, the XPing part should be equal, but the rewards are different. Given how Ashes' gearing seems to be working - quests might lvl you up, but you won't be able to kill shit, cause you won't have gear at that high lvl.
Of course there's a chance that you get a ton of money through quests, but then it's a balancing issue onto itself, and money won't = gear, if you're one of the first to go through the quest-lvling, because you'd be way further ahead of others.
And of course, depending on how quests even work, it might be that the optimal way is to do quest AND grind mobs along the way.
I agree, and you could definitely factor things like npc xp to subtract from the xp budget of a quest. I don't expect that anyone is going to grind the entire way to level cap. I think a good game would let you choose what you prefer but still supplement with one or the other while keeping up efficiency.
if I had the choice to only kill mobs to level cap vs questing, and they took roughly the same time, id pick killing mobs 100% of the time
Tf you mean battlepass? This is an rpg game, if there is an immersion breaking UI hub where you get the same exact quests/progression as everyone else, I'm quitting day one lmao. This ain't fortnite shun.
I did not say “same exact quests/progression” nor did I say “as everyone else”.
I said the activities you listed as Quests, I expect to see as Tasks on the Ashes Battlepass.
Battle passes have 0 place in an RPG. I'm not sure what makes you think ashes will have one.
Battlepasses by nature give you the exact same rewards as everyone else, that's how they get you to progress through them because the "good" rewards are locked behind a certain level of progression.
It's immersion breaking because it bypasses the act of walking up to an actual NPC, It's boring and reduces the scope of the world because suddenly everyone is doing the same thing, and it also contributes to zerging.
Rather than having a development team figure out how to waste more of my time on chasing cosmetics from rotating loot dispensary like a battlepass, I'd rather them be working on expansions and balance and the like for the game.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Isn't a battlepass just an extra paid fee for some additional seasonal content of the exact quests/progression as everyone else or something?
Nope.
Typically there is a free track and a paid premium track.
It's not quests. Rather it's tasks.
Since Ashes is not P2W, there would be no in-game XP rewards.
AFAIK Ashes is a subscription based game, so battlepass doesn't make sense.
Ashes is an RPG, so battlepass makes even less sense.
On top of that, the whole system of replayability in the game is the rise and fall and rise again of nodes. Hence, "Ashes of Creation". If the devs make any more content after launch, that is where the time should be spent, fleshing out the existing system with more content happening in the node cycles and creating good reasons to disrupt and destroy nodes to keep the game renewing itself. This is the whole point of the "dynamic world".
It's now common for RPGs to include a Battlepass.
Battlepass has players return to do activities in the game in order to acquire rewards - often cosmetic rewards. Especially for games that are not P2W.
So - I dunno why you think it doesn't make sense.
I don't know why you think the rise and fall of Nodes negates Battlepass tasks.
Battlepasses usually push players to do tasks they would not normally use, like make kills with a specific type of weapon or participate in a Naval battle, etc.
Nowhere in any of that does a "battlepass" make sense. Unless when you say "battlepass" you mean something else completely that Ashes is already planning on doing.
LMAO
It all makes sense, objectively.
It may not make sense to you, subjectively. But, you don't even know how Battlepasses work.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Battle passes have 0 place in an RPG. I'm not sure what makes you think ashes will have one.
Battlepasses by nature give you the exact same rewards as everyone else, that's how they get you to progress through them because the "good" rewards are locked behind a certain level of progression.
Battlepasses reward cosmetics. And it would be the same cosmetics for everyone participating in the Battlepass. Those cosmetics would be different than items available in the game.
I dunno what you mean by "good rewards" other than the paid premium track has (supposedly) cooler looking items than the free track.
It's immersion breaking because it bypasses the act of walking up to an actual NPC, It's boring and reduces the scope of the world because suddenly everyone is doing the same thing, and it also contributes to zerging.
How is it immersion breaking to have a Battlepass task like, "Kill 10 Enemies using a Bow" or "Participate in a Naval battle"?? Why does that task have to come from an NPC?
How does that contribute to zerging??
Rather than having a development team figure out how to waste more of my time on chasing cosmetics from rotating loot dispensary like a battlepass, I'd rather them be working on expansions and balance and the like for the game.
If you don't want to waste time chasing cosmetics don't chase cosmetics.
No one is forced to participate in a Battlepass.
I ignore Battlepasses when they don't have cosmetics I want.
The Ashes dev team already have plenty of experience implementing Battlepasses.
Nothing they have to figure out. And cosmetics are easy content for the devs to create.
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ApokMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Battle passes have 0 place in an RPG. I'm not sure what makes you think ashes will have one.
Battlepasses by nature give you the exact same rewards as everyone else, that's how they get you to progress through them because the "good" rewards are locked behind a certain level of progression.
Battlepasses reward cosmetics. And it would be the same cosmetics for everyone participating in the Battlepass. Those cosmetics would be different than items available in the game.
I dunno what you mean by "good rewards" other than the paid premium track has (supposedly) cooler looking items than the free track.
It's immersion breaking because it bypasses the act of walking up to an actual NPC, It's boring and reduces the scope of the world because suddenly everyone is doing the same thing, and it also contributes to zerging.
How is it immersion breaking to have a Battlepass task like, "Kill 10 Enemies using a Bow" or "Participate in a Naval battle"?? Why does that task have to come from an NPC?
How does that contribute to zerging??
Rather than having a development team figure out how to waste more of my time on chasing cosmetics from rotating loot dispensary like a battlepass, I'd rather them be working on expansions and balance and the like for the game.
If you don't want to waste time chasing cosmetics don't chase cosmetics.
No one is forced to participate in a Battlepass.
I ignore Battlepasses when they don't have cosmetics I want.
The Ashes dev team already have plenty of experience implementing Battlepasses.
Nothing they have to figure out. And cosmetics are easy content for the devs to create.
doesn't matter how you spin it, content from battle passes could easily be used in the game. It's a predatory concept that plays off the fear of missing out. there are people who want to collect everything or as much as possible and seasonal grinds with a pay walls on top of sub fees is just ****, it's how free to play games make money. If price gouging players is what you want to do then just put the cosmetics in the shop and it will be the same thing without having to pay monthly fees on top of monthly fees to keep up the cosmetics
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ApokMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Battle passes have 0 place in an RPG. I'm not sure what makes you think ashes will have one.
Battlepasses by nature give you the exact same rewards as everyone else, that's how they get you to progress through them because the "good" rewards are locked behind a certain level of progression.
Battlepasses reward cosmetics. And it would be the same cosmetics for everyone participating in the Battlepass. Those cosmetics would be different than items available in the game.
I dunno what you mean by "good rewards" other than the paid premium track has (supposedly) cooler looking items than the free track.
It's immersion breaking because it bypasses the act of walking up to an actual NPC, It's boring and reduces the scope of the world because suddenly everyone is doing the same thing, and it also contributes to zerging.
How is it immersion breaking to have a Battlepass task like, "Kill 10 Enemies using a Bow" or "Participate in a Naval battle"?? Why does that task have to come from an NPC?
How does that contribute to zerging??
Rather than having a development team figure out how to waste more of my time on chasing cosmetics from rotating loot dispensary like a battlepass, I'd rather them be working on expansions and balance and the like for the game.
If you don't want to waste time chasing cosmetics don't chase cosmetics.
No one is forced to participate in a Battlepass.
I ignore Battlepasses when they don't have cosmetics I want.
The Ashes dev team already have plenty of experience implementing Battlepasses.
Nothing they have to figure out. And cosmetics are easy content for the devs to create.
it's a stupid concept regardless of how you want to spin it, people want to collect skins and you have the pay a premium to get the most out of the content. it's a predatory model only greedy companies that don't really care about their product use.
Like why would anyone in their right mind want to pay a box fee, sub fee then another quarterly fee for a premium track for items that should be in the game to work for regardless if it's an equip or cosmetic
and then you get stupid mundane checklist to do on top of it, why do that in a game that designed to keep you busy as it is
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited May 10
Battlepasses are becoming quite common.
We had how many years of paying for cosmetics before Alpha 2 and you think that Intrepid is not the kind of company to try to make more money from cosmetics after launch?
Ashes does not have a box fee.
Anyone can choose to not participate in the Battlepass or only participate in the free version.
I think WoW's Season Pass is free without a paid version.
Checklists are great motivators for players who like to complete checklists.
We are very transparent in the business model of subscription with cosmetic only marketplace... I respect and understand the opinion of rather having a box price in-place of cosmetics, but that is not the direction I’ve decided to take. After weighing the benefits to the game and its population, I believe a lower barrier to entry is healthier in the long run, and the steady content release and quality of the product will sustain the retention for subscription and in-turn provide a healthier content release strategy for Ashes.
——— Steven
I don’t know why you think Battle Pass would not be Steven’s method of offering Cosmetics
I agree based on the trend all current mmorpgs have it. Clearly it will make some element of money. Unsure if we will see it at launch though, will prob be a post launch thing. Easy make for them to largely increase the price of subscriptions.
Only negative point is most of those ones with a battle pass have some element of p2w.
Nope.
I expect Ashes will have a Battlepass similar to the APOC Battlepass. Rather than similar to the FOMO monthly bundles.
What if someone doesn't want to sub one month, but they like collecting all the free cosmetics? Under normal circumstances they could pick back up where they left off, but if there is a battle pass they lose access to all the items they would have had that month. This isn't a free to play game, by adding battlepasses, sure it's not "pay to win" but it immediately becomes predatory when you take into account that people are already paying for the game.
How is it immersion breaking to have a Battlepass task like, "Kill 10 Enemies using a Bow" or "Participate in a Naval battle"?? Why does that task have to come from an NPC?
How does that contribute to zerging??
Why are you killing 10 NPCs with a bow? What's your motivation?
Compare that to walking up to an npc: "Oh these boar are tearing up my garden! take this bow and kill 10 boars! I will reward you with my late wife's dowery"
You see the difference? It is 100% immersion breaking.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited May 10
What?
That's not really the way Battlepasses work. Battlepasses typically last for 6-12 weeks.
I don't know what you mean by "lose access to all the items they would have had that month".
If you miss the entire time on the Battlepass because you didn't play for a couple months, you miss the Cosmetics offered during those couple of months. Sure.
Just because you miss a month of playing doesn't mean it's impossible to complete the Battlepass in the 2-4 weeks left. All depends on how Hardcore time you play in the final weeks of the Battlepass.
The Battlepass I'm currently working through, I didn't play for 4-6 weeks.
I just started playing the last week of April. I was hoping to hit BP Level 20 by the time it ended. Around May 3rd. Turns out I have until May 24. I'm currently BP Level 64.
I could not play for a week and still hit Level BP 100. And the items up through Level BP 100 will always be available until that Battlepass ends. I already got the item I wanted most today.
That's the primary/main game BP.
There's also a secondary BP that started a week ago. I'm at 4,750 points out of 11,000 points on that one.
I think that one only lasts a month and if you miss that one, you might have to wait a year before those items are offered again, or you may have to purchase those Cosmetics with cash if they offer them again before next year.
The motivation to Kill 10 Enemies with a Bow is that it provides points towards some Cosmetic that I want.
And, when I'm in the game and my character chooses to test combat using a Bow, that's immersive because my character is doing something in the world and NPCs are reacting to what my character is doing. I don't need to have an NPC give me a Bow to be immersive. An NPC telling my character to kill Boars with the Bow they give me would be pretty weird and probably feel less immersive. Better for me to concoct the reason why my character is choosing to try a Bow, where normally they would not.
So... while I do see a difference... the Battlepass task is not at all immersion-breaking, but an NPC telling me which Weapon my character should use to kill something would be weird and kinda immersion-breaking.
And, what I like about Battlepass tasks is that they can get me to try stuff that I would normally ignore if it was a Quest in the game - because I can get xp some other kinda way.
There's some BP Tasks, I ignore, too.
But, BP tasks can get me to try something I would usually ignore before Quests can get me to do something I would normally ignore.
Comments
one other thing they did with FFXI is gave people weapon skills that chained together. huge list of combos that chained but limited at low levels so you had to go over what you had for a party comp and figure out your weapon skill combos are. Depending on the combo element you adapt to the world as you leveled and played with other people. there are the usual leveling spots but the system created a little more depth and diversity in finding places to level up
That's not how I view mob grinding. The fun part for me is practising my rotation and adjusting builds/gear to try and more optimally defeat the monsters. Maybe if I open with the long cast, then land a dot, get a mage shield up before the mob gets to melee range, then wand them down so that by the time they die and I engage on the next monster I have my mana back. Oh, now I am in a new zone and maybe I need to add another spell to my rotation and it makes me start to run out of mana over time and need to drink. Maybe if I upgrade my mana regen slightly I don't need to drink, better go to town and see if there are any gear upgrades I can get.
There is a rhythm to mob grinding that can be fun to try and lock in. Like playing an instrument or something. I can easily spend an hour in combat with an enjoyable character trying to find and maintain that rhythm.
Gamers are greedy.
This is why i gave away at least One Kael'daelar Sword-hilt for free on a Deathknight around Cataclysm in WoW, when everyone tried to extort SIXTY. THOUSAND. GOLD. out of every single Swort-hilt that started the Questline for that Runeblade.
Just to piss off all these People who think they can extort and "press out" so much Money from People with Rare Items that these People need.
But it was a "Human Deathknight", so to say Warcraft III Lore Race for Deathknights - "AND" he had a decent Name and not something like Banana-pie or something else.
This is why he got it for free. Around Thirty People in the Trading Chat blocked me that Day when he and i made my Deed public.
It was glorious. I enjoyed the Salt and regretted nothing.
Will definitely go through the full questline the 1st time through the game, though. It'll be *new*; The 2nd and 3rd toons I'll be more-open to alternative-means of levelling - especially if it's faster.
Hopefully there'll be things like dark/light and mean/nice options, in questing. If we're to do the SAME quest-line to level each time, it'd be more-interesting to be able to play it different ways.
Dygz, its kind of a major focus of the game.
We'll be seeing a ton if it everywhere.
Tf you mean battlepass? This is an rpg game, if there is an immersion breaking UI hub where you get the same exact quests/progression as everyone else, I'm quitting day one lmao. This ain't fortnite shun.
Do I think quests alone should get a player to the level cap? Naw, not even including the Main Storyline Quests incorporated into the pool if considered also. There are multiple ways to earn experience. I personally love to grind dungeons repetitively to help gain some levels, or even engage in lots of PVP also.
I actually wonder how Intrepid is going to balance the experience between all of the sources which yield experience, I think that's the most important thing to consider when answerin' this question.
From what I remember though during one of the livestreams on Twitch, it's going to be an arduous task to reach max level and you will have to put in a hefty amount of effort to reach that threshold.
Steven’s mention of Economic Warfare during the Inventory demo is more clarification that I’m not in the Target Audience for Ashes.
I will be ignoring the Economy almost completely.
When I want to experience Economy in an MMORPG, I will play some other game.
I said the activities you listed as Quests, I expect to see as Tasks on the Ashes Battlepass.
Isn't a battlepass just an extra paid fee for some additional seasonal content of the exact quests/progression as everyone else or something?
AFAIK Ashes is a subscription based game, so battlepass doesn't make sense.
Ashes is an RPG, so battlepass makes even less sense.
On top of that, the whole system of replayability in the game is the rise and fall and rise again of nodes. Hence, "Ashes of Creation". If the devs make any more content after launch, that is where the time should be spent, fleshing out the existing system with more content happening in the node cycles and creating good reasons to disrupt and destroy nodes to keep the game renewing itself. This is the whole point of the "dynamic world".
Nowhere in any of that does a "battlepass" make sense. Unless when you say "battlepass" you mean something else completely that Ashes is already planning on doing.
if I had the choice to only kill mobs to level cap vs questing, and they took roughly the same time, id pick killing mobs 100% of the time
=D
Given this game's chosen constraints I'd have to say 'yes'.
And I'd be more positive toward it than for it to happen via questing, honestly...
(note, this is not because I like that gathering gives Adventurer exp, I just accept that it should, since this isn't 2003)
Battle passes have 0 place in an RPG. I'm not sure what makes you think ashes will have one.
Battlepasses by nature give you the exact same rewards as everyone else, that's how they get you to progress through them because the "good" rewards are locked behind a certain level of progression.
It's immersion breaking because it bypasses the act of walking up to an actual NPC, It's boring and reduces the scope of the world because suddenly everyone is doing the same thing, and it also contributes to zerging.
Rather than having a development team figure out how to waste more of my time on chasing cosmetics from rotating loot dispensary like a battlepass, I'd rather them be working on expansions and balance and the like for the game.
Typically there is a free track and a paid premium track.
It's not quests. Rather it's tasks.
Since Ashes is not P2W, there would be no in-game XP rewards.
It's now common for RPGs to include a Battlepass.
Battlepass has players return to do activities in the game in order to acquire rewards - often cosmetic rewards. Especially for games that are not P2W.
So - I dunno why you think it doesn't make sense.
I don't know why you think the rise and fall of Nodes negates Battlepass tasks.
Battlepasses usually push players to do tasks they would not normally use, like make kills with a specific type of weapon or participate in a Naval battle, etc.
LMAO
It all makes sense, objectively.
It may not make sense to you, subjectively. But, you don't even know how Battlepasses work.
I dunno what you mean by "good rewards" other than the paid premium track has (supposedly) cooler looking items than the free track.
How is it immersion breaking to have a Battlepass task like, "Kill 10 Enemies using a Bow" or "Participate in a Naval battle"?? Why does that task have to come from an NPC?
How does that contribute to zerging??
If you don't want to waste time chasing cosmetics don't chase cosmetics.
No one is forced to participate in a Battlepass.
I ignore Battlepasses when they don't have cosmetics I want.
The Ashes dev team already have plenty of experience implementing Battlepasses.
Nothing they have to figure out. And cosmetics are easy content for the devs to create.
doesn't matter how you spin it, content from battle passes could easily be used in the game. It's a predatory concept that plays off the fear of missing out. there are people who want to collect everything or as much as possible and seasonal grinds with a pay walls on top of sub fees is just ****, it's how free to play games make money. If price gouging players is what you want to do then just put the cosmetics in the shop and it will be the same thing without having to pay monthly fees on top of monthly fees to keep up the cosmetics
it's a stupid concept regardless of how you want to spin it, people want to collect skins and you have the pay a premium to get the most out of the content. it's a predatory model only greedy companies that don't really care about their product use.
Like why would anyone in their right mind want to pay a box fee, sub fee then another quarterly fee for a premium track for items that should be in the game to work for regardless if it's an equip or cosmetic
and then you get stupid mundane checklist to do on top of it, why do that in a game that designed to keep you busy as it is
We had how many years of paying for cosmetics before Alpha 2 and you think that Intrepid is not the kind of company to try to make more money from cosmetics after launch?
Ashes does not have a box fee.
Anyone can choose to not participate in the Battlepass or only participate in the free version.
I think WoW's Season Pass is free without a paid version.
Checklists are great motivators for players who like to complete checklists.
We are very transparent in the business model of subscription with cosmetic only marketplace... I respect and understand the opinion of rather having a box price in-place of cosmetics, but that is not the direction I’ve decided to take. After weighing the benefits to the game and its population, I believe a lower barrier to entry is healthier in the long run, and the steady content release and quality of the product will sustain the retention for subscription and in-turn provide a healthier content release strategy for Ashes.
——— Steven
I don’t know why you think Battle Pass would not be Steven’s method of offering Cosmetics
I expect Ashes will have a Battlepass similar to the APOC Battlepass. Rather than similar to the FOMO monthly bundles.
I had zero interest in Apoc.
Only negative point is most of those ones with a battle pass have some element of p2w.
What if someone doesn't want to sub one month, but they like collecting all the free cosmetics? Under normal circumstances they could pick back up where they left off, but if there is a battle pass they lose access to all the items they would have had that month. This isn't a free to play game, by adding battlepasses, sure it's not "pay to win" but it immediately becomes predatory when you take into account that people are already paying for the game. Why are you killing 10 NPCs with a bow? What's your motivation?
Compare that to walking up to an npc: "Oh these boar are tearing up my garden! take this bow and kill 10 boars! I will reward you with my late wife's dowery"
You see the difference? It is 100% immersion breaking.
That's not really the way Battlepasses work. Battlepasses typically last for 6-12 weeks.
I don't know what you mean by "lose access to all the items they would have had that month".
If you miss the entire time on the Battlepass because you didn't play for a couple months, you miss the Cosmetics offered during those couple of months. Sure.
Just because you miss a month of playing doesn't mean it's impossible to complete the Battlepass in the 2-4 weeks left. All depends on how Hardcore time you play in the final weeks of the Battlepass.
The Battlepass I'm currently working through, I didn't play for 4-6 weeks.
I just started playing the last week of April. I was hoping to hit BP Level 20 by the time it ended. Around May 3rd. Turns out I have until May 24. I'm currently BP Level 64.
I could not play for a week and still hit Level BP 100. And the items up through Level BP 100 will always be available until that Battlepass ends. I already got the item I wanted most today.
That's the primary/main game BP.
There's also a secondary BP that started a week ago. I'm at 4,750 points out of 11,000 points on that one.
I think that one only lasts a month and if you miss that one, you might have to wait a year before those items are offered again, or you may have to purchase those Cosmetics with cash if they offer them again before next year.
The motivation to Kill 10 Enemies with a Bow is that it provides points towards some Cosmetic that I want.
And, when I'm in the game and my character chooses to test combat using a Bow, that's immersive because my character is doing something in the world and NPCs are reacting to what my character is doing. I don't need to have an NPC give me a Bow to be immersive. An NPC telling my character to kill Boars with the Bow they give me would be pretty weird and probably feel less immersive. Better for me to concoct the reason why my character is choosing to try a Bow, where normally they would not.
So... while I do see a difference... the Battlepass task is not at all immersion-breaking, but an NPC telling me which Weapon my character should use to kill something would be weird and kinda immersion-breaking.
And, what I like about Battlepass tasks is that they can get me to try stuff that I would normally ignore if it was a Quest in the game - because I can get xp some other kinda way.
There's some BP Tasks, I ignore, too.
But, BP tasks can get me to try something I would usually ignore before Quests can get me to do something I would normally ignore.