Best Of
Re: ๐ Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
I just want to echo the overall comments on improvement needs for the Ranger. The class has mana issues, feels incomplete, lacks identity etc... I really do hope Intrepid takes a hard look at reworking a good portion of the class.
Vashe
4
Re: ๐ Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
Thoughts on various archetypes, I'm rogue mainly so more personal ideas listed on that below.
1. Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
Bard, hands down. You have the ability to do multiple archetypes of skills and more. Have respectable damage, healing, shielding, buffs, CC, all of it. On top of that with proper execution you are the most mobile archetype in the game bar none. Without even getting into the more utility aspects of the kit there is so much value that it has the potential to render other archetypes redundant in many circumstances outside of the barest necessities (Dedicated tank, resurrect, etc).
2. Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
As many have said there are glaring issues across Ranger, Mage, Cleric. However out of those Mage definitely feels the worst. It is uninspired, uninteresting, and doesn't really bring anything to the table that makes it feel worth playing outside of diehard mage fans. In the current state it encourages mixed elemental gameplay due to lack of more skills within any individual element. While definitely an idea from somewhere, it prevents players from having the agency to focus on effects they like while preventing growth to more grand spells of a particular element. Fire spells for example only have a few basic effects with a standard fireball, instant, and ground effect. Those feel like techniques that a novice would use and there are no spells that feel like you've grown as a mage (No, prismatic beam doesn't count). You're as developed at level 6 as you will be at 25 for that fantasy. Other elements are largely the same and it eventually ends up your mage has a spread of spells that feel incredibly simple... You just know more of them. Never graduated mage school, I guess.
Ranger feels too similar to mage. There are multiple skills that lock down the ranger with long cast bars. Give rangers their own identity instead of the skills they are excited to use just feeling shoehorned in from another archetype. Ranger ammo infusions should be unique or interesting, not taken straight off the weapon skill trees. Your skills should not have less value than a weapon skill node. An example done better is on the fighter kit, where the fighter is able to take wound passives that apply to their abilities instead of weapon combos. While the debuff is the same, it adds variance by applying those effects in different circumstances.
Cleric is one-dimensional and needs more skill expression. This could include more pre-emptive healing such as barriers or alternate HoTs, buffs, something to feel like you're having a broader effect than staring at the battlefield fixated on the little bars. Bards do what clerics do and in many situations they do it better. Unless a group is inept doing deliberately stupid things or punching well above their weight class, a cleric is an afterthought unless you want to have a safety res available. It would be very interesting to see a split cleric where you are able to balance some offensive and healing magic together to have a more active role. Too many clerics just kinda exist to soak exp and pretend they're contributing when they aren't.
3. Rogues
A few words on rogue as well since we're already here. While there is a lot of cohesion in the kit and it is definitely with bard as being the most refined, there are a few things that haven't really been sitting right. The first is poison application, hitting a button every 10s that purely gives you class identity is incredibly cumbersome and not fun. This is an issue that I believe tank had previously with grit, having to mash a key for the simplest things is button clutter. It doesn't add anything to the rotation, it doesn't make sense that your poison vanishes so quickly. There are a lot of ways poison applicators have functioned historically to the point it feels like a kid in a candy store and the poison vanishes because our characters are licking it off the weapons before it gets used. Why? Rangers don't have to mash their ammo button to receive ammo buffs, mages don't have to mash a button to get enchant weapon buffs, even the large theme buffs from bard last 60s and those apply to the entire party.
Secondly, I would love to see Death Mark moved/changed to be a part of Shadow Step or something. Rogue feels a bit weird being a melee class with multiple minimum-range skills. Even ranger doesn't have that limitation and it's the one using distance attacks. Death Mark specifically has no function if someone is too close, unlike Shadow Step that still has diminished value since it will not provide advantage. I enjoy the risk/reward of Shadow Step and would LOVE to see Death Mark as an upgrade to it instead of a standalone skill. It would work largely how it does already, only triggering if you Shadow Step from beyond the minimum range. This sort of change would make Shadow Step have a split value, either you use it to initiate from a distance to mark your target(or punish runners) or hold onto it for your CC break. Risk vs reward for a more thoughtful playstyle. As it is now outside of specific circumstances Death Mark isn't worth considering as for PvP it is literally outing yourself and effectively breaks your own stealth by laughing at your target and dancing "i'ma come get yoouuu!".
I will sacrifice Flurry from the entire kit for the Death Mark idea above. Seriously though, Flurry feels bad and doesn't mesh into other rotations well. Even trying to utilize it for PvE it has lesser value than doing nearly anything else. Once you start getting more stable stats you are able to clip its animation and prevent the second strike from finishing, negating any purpose for its existence. One idea I had for it is to remove it as an active skill and turning it into a passive or auto-attack style of skill. Something that will cause the 'Flurry' effect once every Xseconds or something. That way it happens naturally without worrying about where it has to go or sharing hotkey space with skills you actually want to use.
I will also sacrifice Thump from Doublestrike's proc list for Death Mark changes (To be clear, I love it there. It makes people mad.). Everyone wants us to have less CC anyways, right??
1. Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
Bard, hands down. You have the ability to do multiple archetypes of skills and more. Have respectable damage, healing, shielding, buffs, CC, all of it. On top of that with proper execution you are the most mobile archetype in the game bar none. Without even getting into the more utility aspects of the kit there is so much value that it has the potential to render other archetypes redundant in many circumstances outside of the barest necessities (Dedicated tank, resurrect, etc).
2. Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
As many have said there are glaring issues across Ranger, Mage, Cleric. However out of those Mage definitely feels the worst. It is uninspired, uninteresting, and doesn't really bring anything to the table that makes it feel worth playing outside of diehard mage fans. In the current state it encourages mixed elemental gameplay due to lack of more skills within any individual element. While definitely an idea from somewhere, it prevents players from having the agency to focus on effects they like while preventing growth to more grand spells of a particular element. Fire spells for example only have a few basic effects with a standard fireball, instant, and ground effect. Those feel like techniques that a novice would use and there are no spells that feel like you've grown as a mage (No, prismatic beam doesn't count). You're as developed at level 6 as you will be at 25 for that fantasy. Other elements are largely the same and it eventually ends up your mage has a spread of spells that feel incredibly simple... You just know more of them. Never graduated mage school, I guess.
Ranger feels too similar to mage. There are multiple skills that lock down the ranger with long cast bars. Give rangers their own identity instead of the skills they are excited to use just feeling shoehorned in from another archetype. Ranger ammo infusions should be unique or interesting, not taken straight off the weapon skill trees. Your skills should not have less value than a weapon skill node. An example done better is on the fighter kit, where the fighter is able to take wound passives that apply to their abilities instead of weapon combos. While the debuff is the same, it adds variance by applying those effects in different circumstances.
Cleric is one-dimensional and needs more skill expression. This could include more pre-emptive healing such as barriers or alternate HoTs, buffs, something to feel like you're having a broader effect than staring at the battlefield fixated on the little bars. Bards do what clerics do and in many situations they do it better. Unless a group is inept doing deliberately stupid things or punching well above their weight class, a cleric is an afterthought unless you want to have a safety res available. It would be very interesting to see a split cleric where you are able to balance some offensive and healing magic together to have a more active role. Too many clerics just kinda exist to soak exp and pretend they're contributing when they aren't.
3. Rogues
A few words on rogue as well since we're already here. While there is a lot of cohesion in the kit and it is definitely with bard as being the most refined, there are a few things that haven't really been sitting right. The first is poison application, hitting a button every 10s that purely gives you class identity is incredibly cumbersome and not fun. This is an issue that I believe tank had previously with grit, having to mash a key for the simplest things is button clutter. It doesn't add anything to the rotation, it doesn't make sense that your poison vanishes so quickly. There are a lot of ways poison applicators have functioned historically to the point it feels like a kid in a candy store and the poison vanishes because our characters are licking it off the weapons before it gets used. Why? Rangers don't have to mash their ammo button to receive ammo buffs, mages don't have to mash a button to get enchant weapon buffs, even the large theme buffs from bard last 60s and those apply to the entire party.
Secondly, I would love to see Death Mark moved/changed to be a part of Shadow Step or something. Rogue feels a bit weird being a melee class with multiple minimum-range skills. Even ranger doesn't have that limitation and it's the one using distance attacks. Death Mark specifically has no function if someone is too close, unlike Shadow Step that still has diminished value since it will not provide advantage. I enjoy the risk/reward of Shadow Step and would LOVE to see Death Mark as an upgrade to it instead of a standalone skill. It would work largely how it does already, only triggering if you Shadow Step from beyond the minimum range. This sort of change would make Shadow Step have a split value, either you use it to initiate from a distance to mark your target(or punish runners) or hold onto it for your CC break. Risk vs reward for a more thoughtful playstyle. As it is now outside of specific circumstances Death Mark isn't worth considering as for PvP it is literally outing yourself and effectively breaks your own stealth by laughing at your target and dancing "i'ma come get yoouuu!".
I will sacrifice Flurry from the entire kit for the Death Mark idea above. Seriously though, Flurry feels bad and doesn't mesh into other rotations well. Even trying to utilize it for PvE it has lesser value than doing nearly anything else. Once you start getting more stable stats you are able to clip its animation and prevent the second strike from finishing, negating any purpose for its existence. One idea I had for it is to remove it as an active skill and turning it into a passive or auto-attack style of skill. Something that will cause the 'Flurry' effect once every Xseconds or something. That way it happens naturally without worrying about where it has to go or sharing hotkey space with skills you actually want to use.
I will also sacrifice Thump from Doublestrike's proc list for Death Mark changes (To be clear, I love it there. It makes people mad.). Everyone wants us to have less CC anyways, right??
Leshida
3
Re: ๐ Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
I've only really played Fighter a bunch but here are my 2 cents:
General speaking I really enjoy the Fighters kit and fluidity of it during combat. However the fact during almost every single PvP encounter you just try to set up Stagger into Trip, into Stagger into Trip feels very lackluster and often literally forces you into using From of Celerity over all the other stances.
I think the class was designed with some form of "stance dancing" in mind but in reality nobody does it since it interrupts your weapon combo, wastes a GCD and the buffs you get are almost useless due to the fact you're almost always starving for combat momentum during PvP so the impact is minimal.
Berserk is supposed to be that ability which makes every enemy around you go into "oh shit" mode and try to leave melee range asap but atm it's just a button you press to reset your CDs. It's barely ever used for the dmg buff due to its laughable uptime in most situations.
Having the CC break on the same ability as the only real group buff/utility a Fighter brings plus it being a huge combat momentum builder which often gets "wasted" also feels horrible.
Overall the Fighter has almost zero group utility and there are few reasons to ever pick one over a Mage eg. Just looking at all the Guilds literally banning Fighters from their rosters should be proof enough something needs to be done in that area. Maybe this gets better once we can choose 2nd Archetypes like Fighter/Cleric but who knows at this point....
Ranger seems like a Mage with a bow, no real identity here. Imo Rangers should be the kings of mobility, maybe sharing that throne with Rogues. Right now even Bards are way ahead in terms of mobility.
Tanks and their Wall ability are a great addition to making them more viable in PvP imo and gives opportunity for skill expression. Since Margaret leaked her passion for Warhammer Online during the interview with Nyce tho I want to point out one thing that made Tanks absolutely crucial to any group in that game.... GUARD! The ability worked similar to Protect of the current AoC Tank kit but for whatever reason it doesn't even seem to have half of the impact here in AoC. A good Tank in WAR being on top of his Guard switch game whenever someone in the grp was being focused was a menace to deal with and resulted in the "guarded" ally becoming massively more tanky up to the point where you had to find ways to get rid of the Tank first before you could kill their DPS. I'd love to see the Tank archetype get the same kind of battlefield presence here.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement?
In larger fights (Zerg v Zerg) melee often feels useless. The battles evolve into 2 big balls of people just pew pewing at eachother using ranged abilities and - even more - ranged auto attacks. The cleave potential melee has is minimal in PvP. I think most would agree using your melee autos in PvP rarely ever happens. Even if I'm in melee range, most of the time I'm better of just sticking to ranged autos due to uptime and overall steady "pressure" I can apply on the target. Melee autos in PvP just aren't viable apart from the zug zug moments. The fact Longbows have one of the "best" skill trees and the most range makes it even worse.
I think even Mages or Rangers should have some situations where using their melee weapons makes kind of sense (eg using Spear to zone or applying a quick snare with a 1h Sword), else what's the point of even allowing every archetype to use both?
Apart from this, currently every single weapon just feels like a stat stick. There is almost zero difference between using GS, Mace, Daggers, whatever. The only weapon that gives of a different "vibe" might be the Wand atm due to its unique finisher. I really really hope the current weapon skill trees are the absolute barebones implementations of what we're gonna get in the future.
General speaking I really enjoy the Fighters kit and fluidity of it during combat. However the fact during almost every single PvP encounter you just try to set up Stagger into Trip, into Stagger into Trip feels very lackluster and often literally forces you into using From of Celerity over all the other stances.
I think the class was designed with some form of "stance dancing" in mind but in reality nobody does it since it interrupts your weapon combo, wastes a GCD and the buffs you get are almost useless due to the fact you're almost always starving for combat momentum during PvP so the impact is minimal.
Berserk is supposed to be that ability which makes every enemy around you go into "oh shit" mode and try to leave melee range asap but atm it's just a button you press to reset your CDs. It's barely ever used for the dmg buff due to its laughable uptime in most situations.
Having the CC break on the same ability as the only real group buff/utility a Fighter brings plus it being a huge combat momentum builder which often gets "wasted" also feels horrible.
Overall the Fighter has almost zero group utility and there are few reasons to ever pick one over a Mage eg. Just looking at all the Guilds literally banning Fighters from their rosters should be proof enough something needs to be done in that area. Maybe this gets better once we can choose 2nd Archetypes like Fighter/Cleric but who knows at this point....
Ranger seems like a Mage with a bow, no real identity here. Imo Rangers should be the kings of mobility, maybe sharing that throne with Rogues. Right now even Bards are way ahead in terms of mobility.
Tanks and their Wall ability are a great addition to making them more viable in PvP imo and gives opportunity for skill expression. Since Margaret leaked her passion for Warhammer Online during the interview with Nyce tho I want to point out one thing that made Tanks absolutely crucial to any group in that game.... GUARD! The ability worked similar to Protect of the current AoC Tank kit but for whatever reason it doesn't even seem to have half of the impact here in AoC. A good Tank in WAR being on top of his Guard switch game whenever someone in the grp was being focused was a menace to deal with and resulted in the "guarded" ally becoming massively more tanky up to the point where you had to find ways to get rid of the Tank first before you could kill their DPS. I'd love to see the Tank archetype get the same kind of battlefield presence here.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement?
In larger fights (Zerg v Zerg) melee often feels useless. The battles evolve into 2 big balls of people just pew pewing at eachother using ranged abilities and - even more - ranged auto attacks. The cleave potential melee has is minimal in PvP. I think most would agree using your melee autos in PvP rarely ever happens. Even if I'm in melee range, most of the time I'm better of just sticking to ranged autos due to uptime and overall steady "pressure" I can apply on the target. Melee autos in PvP just aren't viable apart from the zug zug moments. The fact Longbows have one of the "best" skill trees and the most range makes it even worse.
I think even Mages or Rangers should have some situations where using their melee weapons makes kind of sense (eg using Spear to zone or applying a quick snare with a 1h Sword), else what's the point of even allowing every archetype to use both?
Apart from this, currently every single weapon just feels like a stat stick. There is almost zero difference between using GS, Mace, Daggers, whatever. The only weapon that gives of a different "vibe" might be the Wand atm due to its unique finisher. I really really hope the current weapon skill trees are the absolute barebones implementations of what we're gonna get in the future.
Skuzzle
3
Re: ๐ Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
I think with the relative change to stats, mobs, and grouping, I feel the Rez skill should come in a *bit* sooner. In the grand scheme of levels, 6 is technically fine, but should anything happen in those early levels, I think it would be a boon to have the rez skill sooner rather than level 6.Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
Ryucrat
1
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
if the crafters leave, the pvpers will craft xDDDDDDD
PvP'ers generally draw the line at top end raiding (which is why PvP games no longer have top end raids).
PvE'ers generally draw the line at PvP.
Both will happily branch out to things like crafting, if there is a need.
This all seems fairly equal to me - when you donsider that the group of players that consider themselves PvP only is vanishingly small, and the group of players that consider themselves PvE only is also vanishingly small.
Noaani
2
Re: ๐ Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
I always played Ranger since P1
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
No idea, haven't really played other archetypes
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
1. Recently on PTR, me and other ranger encountered issues with applying Thorns and Regeneration toggle buffs. They worked inconsistently and sometimes it was impossible to apply them to my character or to other players.
2. Thorns buff doesn't really feel impactful. Dealing 8 damage and applying Bleeding from time to time - it's pretty much nothing.
3. Regeneration buff doesn't feel impactful. 100 Regeneration Rating is nothing. Same applies to it's passive upgrade Siphoning Regeneration - not worth the skill point, since 5% regen from damage dealt to marked target is not worth it, pretty much useless.
4. Updated Hunt/Mark system:
- Previously ranger could choose which mark and hunt they want to use. Now we have less flexibility, since everyone is using either Tiger or Bear.
- Losing Hunt buff while Mark is active doesn't feel good. In mass PvP using mark vs a target often makes no sense because it leads to the loss of Tiger/Bear Hunt, which reduces ranger's damage output versus ALL targets.
- Temporary buffs that appear upon Mark's expiration are nice to have, but you can't really rely on them or play around them, since they only appear after 8 seconds of Mark.
- Hunt of the Raven - pretty much useless. Nobody would pick this hunt over Tiger/Bear.
Suggestion:
a) Hunt buff should remain active when Mark is used;
b) (Optionally) Temporary buff should be instantly activated when Mark is used.
Explanation:
Mark is ranger's unique mechanic and it should be and feel impactful. Under these conditions, marks will create a burst window without affecting ranger's damage output and provide a defensive buff to increase surrvavibility a bit. Ranger is pretty much the only archetype that doesn't have heals or shields, which is fine as long as there is at least something else for survivability.
5. Ensnaring Vine Field applies 1 stack of Snared per second when enemy is hit with Vine Field. It leads to enemy getting a Snare/Chill immunity a several seconds after being rooted with Vine Field. The amount of stacks should be reduced, probably limited to 2.
6. Bear Traps: not a bad utility skill overall. However, 3 skill points are required to upgrade them fully and it feels like too much. As someone suggested in discord, removing Trapslinger passive completely and keeping its effect for a default Bear Trap could be a reasonable option. This way, you won't have to allocate 3 skills point, but 2.
7. Air Strike - great skill visually, but rarely used in PvP. Description says that each out of 3 projectiles are supposed to deal 150% damage, but in reality - a target only gets hit once regardless of the number of projectiles it got hit by. So either the description is somewhat confusing or it doesn't work as intended. Overall, skill is good on paper, but in reality - very very situational, sits on 45-second cooldown that can't be reset by using Lightning Reload.
8. Scatter Shot has an upgrade "Consentrated Scatter Shot". It is not always reliable: sometimes you get a charged version instead of a basic one, sometimes - the other way around.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
1. I don't feel like I'm actually playing a ranger, I feel like I'm playing something with a bow. Since the vast majority of other players, especially PvP players are using longbow because of its 35m range, I don't really feel any different. Ranger is supposed to have something like a passive that gives +5m range at least to his auto-attacks. This could make ranger at least somewhat different from *insert any archetype* with a longbow. Additionally, it will create an opportunity for rangers to kite (which normally they are supposed to do)
2. Excuse my French, but shortbows are absolute trash. It doesn't even feel like a bow because of its animation. Like, am I shooting a bow or MG42? Additionally, it has a 30m range - this alone is enough to make it useless, since *insert any archetype* with a longbow will have an advantage over you because of range.
I'll say it once again. Not a ranger will have an advantage over ranger. With a bow. Over RANGER. Because they can shoot further... than a ranger.
The passive with +5m range that I mentioned could also fix the issue with shortbows, making them a viable alternative with 35m range instead of 30m.
And for the love of God, please. This shortbow animation is just... ewww. It doesn't just break the immersion, it literally nukes it with 100 gigaton bomb.
I always played Ranger since P1
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
No idea, haven't really played other archetypes
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
1. Recently on PTR, me and other ranger encountered issues with applying Thorns and Regeneration toggle buffs. They worked inconsistently and sometimes it was impossible to apply them to my character or to other players.
2. Thorns buff doesn't really feel impactful. Dealing 8 damage and applying Bleeding from time to time - it's pretty much nothing.
3. Regeneration buff doesn't feel impactful. 100 Regeneration Rating is nothing. Same applies to it's passive upgrade Siphoning Regeneration - not worth the skill point, since 5% regen from damage dealt to marked target is not worth it, pretty much useless.
4. Updated Hunt/Mark system:
- Previously ranger could choose which mark and hunt they want to use. Now we have less flexibility, since everyone is using either Tiger or Bear.
- Losing Hunt buff while Mark is active doesn't feel good. In mass PvP using mark vs a target often makes no sense because it leads to the loss of Tiger/Bear Hunt, which reduces ranger's damage output versus ALL targets.
- Temporary buffs that appear upon Mark's expiration are nice to have, but you can't really rely on them or play around them, since they only appear after 8 seconds of Mark.
- Hunt of the Raven - pretty much useless. Nobody would pick this hunt over Tiger/Bear.
Suggestion:
a) Hunt buff should remain active when Mark is used;
b) (Optionally) Temporary buff should be instantly activated when Mark is used.
Explanation:
Mark is ranger's unique mechanic and it should be and feel impactful. Under these conditions, marks will create a burst window without affecting ranger's damage output and provide a defensive buff to increase surrvavibility a bit. Ranger is pretty much the only archetype that doesn't have heals or shields, which is fine as long as there is at least something else for survivability.
5. Ensnaring Vine Field applies 1 stack of Snared per second when enemy is hit with Vine Field. It leads to enemy getting a Snare/Chill immunity a several seconds after being rooted with Vine Field. The amount of stacks should be reduced, probably limited to 2.
6. Bear Traps: not a bad utility skill overall. However, 3 skill points are required to upgrade them fully and it feels like too much. As someone suggested in discord, removing Trapslinger passive completely and keeping its effect for a default Bear Trap could be a reasonable option. This way, you won't have to allocate 3 skills point, but 2.
7. Air Strike - great skill visually, but rarely used in PvP. Description says that each out of 3 projectiles are supposed to deal 150% damage, but in reality - a target only gets hit once regardless of the number of projectiles it got hit by. So either the description is somewhat confusing or it doesn't work as intended. Overall, skill is good on paper, but in reality - very very situational, sits on 45-second cooldown that can't be reset by using Lightning Reload.
8. Scatter Shot has an upgrade "Consentrated Scatter Shot". It is not always reliable: sometimes you get a charged version instead of a basic one, sometimes - the other way around.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
1. I don't feel like I'm actually playing a ranger, I feel like I'm playing something with a bow. Since the vast majority of other players, especially PvP players are using longbow because of its 35m range, I don't really feel any different. Ranger is supposed to have something like a passive that gives +5m range at least to his auto-attacks. This could make ranger at least somewhat different from *insert any archetype* with a longbow. Additionally, it will create an opportunity for rangers to kite (which normally they are supposed to do)
2. Excuse my French, but shortbows are absolute trash. It doesn't even feel like a bow because of its animation. Like, am I shooting a bow or MG42? Additionally, it has a 30m range - this alone is enough to make it useless, since *insert any archetype* with a longbow will have an advantage over you because of range.
I'll say it once again. Not a ranger will have an advantage over ranger. With a bow. Over RANGER. Because they can shoot further... than a ranger.
The passive with +5m range that I mentioned could also fix the issue with shortbows, making them a viable alternative with 35m range instead of 30m.
And for the love of God, please. This shortbow animation is just... ewww. It doesn't just break the immersion, it literally nukes it with 100 gigaton bomb.
Flanker
4
Re: ๐ Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
I am a Ranger main since P1 with over 1.5k hours on the class. Maybe have 100 hours on fighter as well.
-Ranger feels bad to play outside of ZvZ because its kit has very little "usable" synergy.
-The class also has terrible mana issues. You can dump all your mana after a rotation.
-Undead can see Ranger invis which makes it difficult to use one of your core abilities in many areas of the game. We also dont have any moves/abilities that has synergism with invis.
-Hunts feel weird and too complex. I would much more prefer a simpler version of them rather than something that has 3 different effects during its life cycle.
-Also Bear trap, refreshing headshot, siphoning regeneration and airstike either feel bad to use or have no impact
-Refreshing headshot has no impact since you can not visually see someone can die to it with your damage output. You just see a bar. Its a waste of a point.
-Airstrike should not be an attack IMO but give us some sort of buff. It also has little value because of how bad snared is. Airstrike also does no feel good to use being a melee skill. It is used extremely infrequently as its ending momentum can easily send you over a ledge when farming or if your using it in pvp it probably means your panicking and about to die.
-Bear trap takes too long to summon if you want to hit a player. Also snare is terrible so you will never get more than the default root time off it.
-Siphoning Regen you can almost not feel at all. Many rangers dont put a point into it in pvp because you dont get any noticeable health back even with a full healing power build I tested on PTR. You can only feel a little bit of healing if you use it with snipe. Else you get no value it feels like. We have no sustain on this class. It would be nice to have something we could see the impact of like Mages bubble which gives temp heath that always finds value.
-Snare constantly DRs and you get no value out of it. It also shares DRs with chilled which had massive value for mage shatter combos. That dynamic alone heavily hinders the CC.
-Many rangers choose not to even take snare on root because it can stop friendly mages getting chilled off for a shatter combo. Which is both bad for farming and pvp.
-Constant DRing itself means lack of value so you cant use it with any moves with synergies with it.
-No reason to use snare over bleed or daze if you are not going to get value out of snare.
-Focus feels fine and is easy to manage.
-AOE moves feel good to use on lots of mobs but with mob difficulty changes we may not be farming as many mobs as we used to so the moves will feel worse. In PVP they are effective though.
-Overall I feel like a lot of the class abilities should be reworked to synergize better together giving the class more depth outside of seeing massive splash numbers on AOE.
-Also let Ranger and Fighter Arrow/Stance dance. It would increase the skill ceiling on both classes.
-I plan on sticking with ranger cuz AOE/Snipe is fun but it sucks that I just dont use most my abilities even if I am forced to take points in them because we dont have that many abilities compared to rogue/bard.
-Ranger feels bad to play outside of ZvZ because its kit has very little "usable" synergy.
-The class also has terrible mana issues. You can dump all your mana after a rotation.
-Undead can see Ranger invis which makes it difficult to use one of your core abilities in many areas of the game. We also dont have any moves/abilities that has synergism with invis.
-Hunts feel weird and too complex. I would much more prefer a simpler version of them rather than something that has 3 different effects during its life cycle.
-Also Bear trap, refreshing headshot, siphoning regeneration and airstike either feel bad to use or have no impact
-Refreshing headshot has no impact since you can not visually see someone can die to it with your damage output. You just see a bar. Its a waste of a point.
-Airstrike should not be an attack IMO but give us some sort of buff. It also has little value because of how bad snared is. Airstrike also does no feel good to use being a melee skill. It is used extremely infrequently as its ending momentum can easily send you over a ledge when farming or if your using it in pvp it probably means your panicking and about to die.
-Bear trap takes too long to summon if you want to hit a player. Also snare is terrible so you will never get more than the default root time off it.
-Siphoning Regen you can almost not feel at all. Many rangers dont put a point into it in pvp because you dont get any noticeable health back even with a full healing power build I tested on PTR. You can only feel a little bit of healing if you use it with snipe. Else you get no value it feels like. We have no sustain on this class. It would be nice to have something we could see the impact of like Mages bubble which gives temp heath that always finds value.
-Snare constantly DRs and you get no value out of it. It also shares DRs with chilled which had massive value for mage shatter combos. That dynamic alone heavily hinders the CC.
-Many rangers choose not to even take snare on root because it can stop friendly mages getting chilled off for a shatter combo. Which is both bad for farming and pvp.
-Constant DRing itself means lack of value so you cant use it with any moves with synergies with it.
-No reason to use snare over bleed or daze if you are not going to get value out of snare.
-Focus feels fine and is easy to manage.
-AOE moves feel good to use on lots of mobs but with mob difficulty changes we may not be farming as many mobs as we used to so the moves will feel worse. In PVP they are effective though.
-Overall I feel like a lot of the class abilities should be reworked to synergize better together giving the class more depth outside of seeing massive splash numbers on AOE.
-Also let Ranger and Fighter Arrow/Stance dance. It would increase the skill ceiling on both classes.
-I plan on sticking with ranger cuz AOE/Snipe is fun but it sucks that I just dont use most my abilities even if I am forced to take points in them because we dont have that many abilities compared to rogue/bard.
supa
3
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
ordotemplarii wrote: ยปEnigmatic Sage wrote: ยป@ordotemplarii
the combat systems synergy to proc stronger abilities based on status effects definitely aids in rotational spam for zerging
Unfortunately, range will almost always have an advantage in larger scaled combat scenarios than the front liners because of game design advantages. Just inevitable unfortunately.
Distance/positioning, aoe, proc synergy, and support roles backing them up compared to the front liners and scrimmagers
I don't know enough about the combat to say zergy or not zergy, but what I do know is that when you can't even get passed lvl 10 without zerging down mobs, its not looking good.
1- what do you consider leveling up as a zerg?
2- who says you cant get past level 10 without a zerg? im assuming zerg here you mean a raid or bigger.
exp in raids got nerfed. it was viable in alpha 1 lol. you can still items as a raid though. nothing wrong with that.
1-10 is faster soloing than partying, unless you go to a couple of special spots (assuming no one is there).
10-14/15 only takes a few hours soloing. it's probably faster than partying, and you make more money too. I'm never partying again from 1 to 14 xDDD. you can still solo after that but it's faster as a party, and partying isnt zerguing.
why people dont want to party is beyond me.
Depraved
2
Re: ๐ Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
I'm largely going to echo what a lot of people have already said.
The best, most well rounded classes are Bard and Rogue. They have a lot of options and play styles, a fluid kit, and unique mechanics to play around. They are the gold standard all other classes should aspire to be.
Warrior is fluid, but bland. It runs up and hits things. It doesn't do anything particularly unique or interesting, and isn't really the best at anything, or really have anything in the way of a core identity. Maybe if it had different skill lines based on weapons, like Sword, Axe, Hammer. Right now, it all bleeds together as indistinct 'melee'. It has a weak identity. Edit: Something I'd like to see added, would be an alternate stamina system for warriors. Which they can expend in the same ways, in addition to using for skills instead of MP, and can generate through a number of means. So that warriors a physical masters, that can run for longer, block and dodge more, and can wield a wide assortment of weapons.
Ranger likewise, is just the 'I have a bow' class. It's very one note, and lacks any kind of core class mechanic. It needs more to do the just bows and traps. Like animal companions, and more melee options such as kicks and short swords.
Clerics are bland as bland can be. And I typically love healers, and this just ain't it chief. All it does is heal, and occasionally throw out a holy spell. It has no breath or depth. Personally, I would take a page out of Guild Wars, with the Protection Monk. Ie spells that focus around damage mitigation, rather than healing.
Mage blows things up well, but lacks variety. Each of the elements don't really have enough depth to use to the exclusion of other elements, nor is there really enough difference between them. They all do damage, they all have minor additional conditions. It's all just color coded magic, rather than actual different studies of magic. Also, where the hell is Earth magic?
Tanks.... eh. I've never liked playing tanks, and this does nothing for me. The name sucks.
The best, most well rounded classes are Bard and Rogue. They have a lot of options and play styles, a fluid kit, and unique mechanics to play around. They are the gold standard all other classes should aspire to be.
Warrior is fluid, but bland. It runs up and hits things. It doesn't do anything particularly unique or interesting, and isn't really the best at anything, or really have anything in the way of a core identity. Maybe if it had different skill lines based on weapons, like Sword, Axe, Hammer. Right now, it all bleeds together as indistinct 'melee'. It has a weak identity. Edit: Something I'd like to see added, would be an alternate stamina system for warriors. Which they can expend in the same ways, in addition to using for skills instead of MP, and can generate through a number of means. So that warriors a physical masters, that can run for longer, block and dodge more, and can wield a wide assortment of weapons.
Ranger likewise, is just the 'I have a bow' class. It's very one note, and lacks any kind of core class mechanic. It needs more to do the just bows and traps. Like animal companions, and more melee options such as kicks and short swords.
Clerics are bland as bland can be. And I typically love healers, and this just ain't it chief. All it does is heal, and occasionally throw out a holy spell. It has no breath or depth. Personally, I would take a page out of Guild Wars, with the Protection Monk. Ie spells that focus around damage mitigation, rather than healing.
Mage blows things up well, but lacks variety. Each of the elements don't really have enough depth to use to the exclusion of other elements, nor is there really enough difference between them. They all do damage, they all have minor additional conditions. It's all just color coded magic, rather than actual different studies of magic. Also, where the hell is Earth magic?
Tanks.... eh. I've never liked playing tanks, and this does nothing for me. The name sucks.
Yoh
2
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
@ordotemplarii
the combat systems synergy to proc stronger abilities based on status effects definitely aids in rotational spam for zerging
Unfortunately, range will almost always have an advantage in larger scaled combat scenarios than the front liners because of game design advantages. Just inevitable unfortunately.
Distance/positioning, aoe, proc synergy, and support roles backing them up compared to the front liners and scrimmagers
the combat systems synergy to proc stronger abilities based on status effects definitely aids in rotational spam for zerging
Unfortunately, range will almost always have an advantage in larger scaled combat scenarios than the front liners because of game design advantages. Just inevitable unfortunately.
Distance/positioning, aoe, proc synergy, and support roles backing them up compared to the front liners and scrimmagers
