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Re: My PvX != Your PvX
So PvE players have protection from PvP, but PvP players have no protection from PvE at all. Is that fair?
Which is why it can argued that this game is not PvP dominant, but PvE dominant
Nerror
3
Re: How do you feel about the augment system reveal from the fighter stream?
I love the complexity and I look forward to exploring it.
As @Percimes mentioned above, it is likely that most people will just use a few of the possible combinations because someone said that it was 'the best.'
I think that expert players (which is more defined by 'mental ability' than by 'time spent in game') will come up with some pretty useful ideas which they will then keep secret.
I will also predict that a lot of the people who call the system "unbalanced" will not be the experts and will not have explored it to any real depth.
As @Percimes mentioned above, it is likely that most people will just use a few of the possible combinations because someone said that it was 'the best.'
I think that expert players (which is more defined by 'mental ability' than by 'time spent in game') will come up with some pretty useful ideas which they will then keep secret.
I will also predict that a lot of the people who call the system "unbalanced" will not be the experts and will not have explored it to any real depth.
tautau
2
Re: How do you feel about the augment system reveal from the fighter stream?
Expect the worst and you'll never be disappointed.
I'm looking forward to their first true reveal of augments.
I'm looking forward to their first true reveal of augments.
Vyril
1
Re: How do you feel about the augment system reveal from the fighter stream?
My general feeling about the augment system is that it will be theoretically great, but its diversity of options won't be used that much.
People like me will love it, but I fear many will only follow what's considered or perceived as to "best". Whether because it's thought as the strongest option, the easiest option to play, the more consistent, the most versatile, the optimal for x playstyle, ... That's all fine, so long as those who chose to thread a different path for their class are not ostracized for doing so.
Even if we're only talking about the weapon skill tree, not even involving the augments, how many will level multiple weapons trees so they can switch for the most synergizing procs depending with whom they're grouping with?
As for balance, I'm more concerned about poor options, those with so specialized or situational uses that they shouldn't be picked by anyone.
People like me will love it, but I fear many will only follow what's considered or perceived as to "best". Whether because it's thought as the strongest option, the easiest option to play, the more consistent, the most versatile, the optimal for x playstyle, ... That's all fine, so long as those who chose to thread a different path for their class are not ostracized for doing so.
Even if we're only talking about the weapon skill tree, not even involving the augments, how many will level multiple weapons trees so they can switch for the most synergizing procs depending with whom they're grouping with?
As for balance, I'm more concerned about poor options, those with so specialized or situational uses that they shouldn't be picked by anyone.
Percimes
5
Re: How do you feel about the augment system reveal from the fighter stream?
No concerns, total faith remains.
As a developer who knows how this can be done, I believe they can do what they say and what I expect, based on what I saw.
The only thing that changed for me (and not because of the comment, but rather, because of the showcase overall) is my expectations of the Augment trees themselves 'per Archetype'.
There were some things I would have expected to be limited, based on my prior list, that I no longer expect to be as limited, so if anything, I expect it to be even cooler now. Makes me wish the game's combat style suited me more.
I also don't have concerns about balance due to it. Augments are unlikely to be the part of balance where glaring heavy flaws appear.
I can't decide which meme goes here, 'I am no man' or 'You underestimate my power' so just imagine a mashup where Eowyn tries to kill Obi Wan, I guess.
As a developer who knows how this can be done, I believe they can do what they say and what I expect, based on what I saw.
The only thing that changed for me (and not because of the comment, but rather, because of the showcase overall) is my expectations of the Augment trees themselves 'per Archetype'.
There were some things I would have expected to be limited, based on my prior list, that I no longer expect to be as limited, so if anything, I expect it to be even cooler now. Makes me wish the game's combat style suited me more.
I also don't have concerns about balance due to it. Augments are unlikely to be the part of balance where glaring heavy flaws appear.
I like the complexity, but seriously they should implement some AI model for their development to have an overview about balancing, no man alive can keep track of this without technical help
I can't decide which meme goes here, 'I am no man' or 'You underestimate my power' so just imagine a mashup where Eowyn tries to kill Obi Wan, I guess.
Azherae
5
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Fighter Archetype Preview Shown in March Livestream
I usually main a fighter type in MMOs so was eager to see the development since the first fighter showcase, which I really enjoyed.
Likes:
I thought the mobility of the fighter was good, I didn't expect them to have so much. Really allows them to move round the Battlefield well.
I liked the direction of the augment and weapon skills, thought that was good to see how you can develop your character and tune them to your play style or needs of the group.
I noticed that some of the attacks and skills were missing when the fighter got out of range of the target, which was good. But will this be the case for ranged classes?
I liked the different stances, momentum and some of the combinations, showed that there could be a good skill ceiling with this class.
The Ren'Kai model looked cool and so did the armour and sword. Was happy with the sword size, doesn't need to be bigger.
The sound demonstrated was very good, really quite satisfying and will be quite immersive when playing.
Concerns:
Main concern is that the combat of the game isn't really hybrid, it's being designed as tab target.
Blitz was a cool move but it didn't appear as if the target could dodge or block that attack. So as a fighter that's great in that situation, but not so much for the other person who doesn't have an ability to stop that, or when a ranger or mage is tabbed on to the fighter and they can't block or dodge attacks that's going to be a problem, but seems to be the tab design.
If the way to dodge that is to spec into evasion or mitigation then fighters will be an underused class as it would be much easier to just use range dps and I really don't want Ashes to turn into a ranged tab game. Melee characters should absolutely have their place, be it a fighter or a rogue.
Cool downs / mana use is something that will obviously get tuned so this can be taken with a pinch of salt. But, this is where the design seemed a bit off time. A fighter should be getting into the back lines and taking on range and healers. They clearly have the mobility to do this and reach very far with some of their skills, but from the show case, the mana use and cool downs wouldn't really allow them to do this. The cool down of Blitz was about 15s and it seemed like the fighter burnt through lots of mana which would leave them exposed, easily kited and killed.
Fighter design. The game is defined around group play and you should be relying on your group for buffs. But the high mobility of the fighter seems like they are almost asking them to push out to fulfil their role in the fight which they won't really be able to do with the mana/cool downs currently shown and, more concerning, is how are your support players able to come and support you in the fight with the high mobility and some skills of the fighter? Not sure if I explained it that well but just seemed like the the design is a bit off with the fighter currently.
Animations looked alright for small scale but in an 8 person group or larger PvP the screen clutter will be an issue. I didn't like the cataclysm spikes, thought that looked out of place. In addition to animations, some of the attacks looked a bit jarring and not that smooth, sure this will get sorted but just something I noticed when watching.
Likes:
I thought the mobility of the fighter was good, I didn't expect them to have so much. Really allows them to move round the Battlefield well.
I liked the direction of the augment and weapon skills, thought that was good to see how you can develop your character and tune them to your play style or needs of the group.
I noticed that some of the attacks and skills were missing when the fighter got out of range of the target, which was good. But will this be the case for ranged classes?
I liked the different stances, momentum and some of the combinations, showed that there could be a good skill ceiling with this class.
The Ren'Kai model looked cool and so did the armour and sword. Was happy with the sword size, doesn't need to be bigger.
The sound demonstrated was very good, really quite satisfying and will be quite immersive when playing.
Concerns:
Main concern is that the combat of the game isn't really hybrid, it's being designed as tab target.
Blitz was a cool move but it didn't appear as if the target could dodge or block that attack. So as a fighter that's great in that situation, but not so much for the other person who doesn't have an ability to stop that, or when a ranger or mage is tabbed on to the fighter and they can't block or dodge attacks that's going to be a problem, but seems to be the tab design.
If the way to dodge that is to spec into evasion or mitigation then fighters will be an underused class as it would be much easier to just use range dps and I really don't want Ashes to turn into a ranged tab game. Melee characters should absolutely have their place, be it a fighter or a rogue.
Cool downs / mana use is something that will obviously get tuned so this can be taken with a pinch of salt. But, this is where the design seemed a bit off time. A fighter should be getting into the back lines and taking on range and healers. They clearly have the mobility to do this and reach very far with some of their skills, but from the show case, the mana use and cool downs wouldn't really allow them to do this. The cool down of Blitz was about 15s and it seemed like the fighter burnt through lots of mana which would leave them exposed, easily kited and killed.
Fighter design. The game is defined around group play and you should be relying on your group for buffs. But the high mobility of the fighter seems like they are almost asking them to push out to fulfil their role in the fight which they won't really be able to do with the mana/cool downs currently shown and, more concerning, is how are your support players able to come and support you in the fight with the high mobility and some skills of the fighter? Not sure if I explained it that well but just seemed like the the design is a bit off with the fighter currently.
Animations looked alright for small scale but in an 8 person group or larger PvP the screen clutter will be an issue. I didn't like the cataclysm spikes, thought that looked out of place. In addition to animations, some of the attacks looked a bit jarring and not that smooth, sure this will get sorted but just something I noticed when watching.
Shabooey
3
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Fighter Archetype Preview Shown in March Livestream
Feedback - Part 2 - Fighter stuff
- Combat Momentum is a good addition to the Fighter class. It makes a lot of sense. I would like to see a few more momentum spending skills though.
- Blitz looks great. No notes really. I am completely ok with it requiring a target, as long as said target can actively dodge it if they see it coming.
- Brutal Cleave and Overpower sharing a cooldown forcing the fighter to chose between single target with shaken effect and area attack is ok I guess. Is it just to limit the number of abilities off CD? So more weapon combos are weaved in? Either way, I think the animations look good for both, but I still think the skill effects are a little overtuned and flashy. If we can turn it down ourselves, then that's fine.
- Maim is a cool skill. Again, I would like to be able to turn the effects down. The blood effect on hit especially is a little big. I really like how the spec option changes the skill pretty drastically. I hope you lean into that more. I guess you are already with the augment system. Double damage on tripped enemies is a good idea.
- Battle Cry - awesome roar, good effect dynamics, no notes
- Whirlwind - Again with the effect, but the animation looks good IMO. I like the cancelling part, but I am not sure how I feel about being immune to hard disabling effects. It's a balance issue I guess.
- Cataclysm - Definitely better than the hammer with the new effect. Good skill, nice to see more leaning into the shaken/riled/tripped synergy thing.
- Rupture - absolutely love this skill. The wound blood effect is over the top, but the skill itself is so good. Healing debuff and increased damage from physical attacks. Healers hate this one trick! I like the synergy with brutal cleave and overpower.
- Crippling Blow - Snare, good, must have, no notes.
- Lethal Blow - Looks good, up to 4x damage seems high but maybe it's fine? Again, a balance issue. With the spec option (health/mana regain) it's a pretty insane skill.
- Blood Fusion - Seems like a super strong skill for those tough fights. I like it. The effect is very cool, slightly over the top perhaps, but not by much. Insta-cast while using other skills makes it even cooler.
- Lunging Assault - Seems good, no notes.
- Leap Strike - crazy skill, love it. I think the abrupt stop mid-air and straight down vertical descent seems a little odd though. If you can soften that angle a little, I think it would look better.
- The Forms - I like the different forms and their effects. I don't like how you can switch between them without losing momentum. That seems wrong to me. A percentage cost or something like that should happen.
- Exert - God mode seems right. Crazy skill. Let's see it after some balance passes to Fighter and other classes. The effect looks good.
Nerror
3
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Fighter Archetype Preview Shown in March Livestream
Feedback - Part 1 - Non-fighter stuff
In no particular order:
About the goblin area in terms of grinding XP, this seems pretty decent. I am not sure it's big enough to support more than two groups from what I saw, so there is that, but in terms of layout and mob respawn and density it looks good. Balance-wise it looks a little easy if 4 people can handle it as well as you did, if it's supposed to be for full parties. But that can be fixed of course.
In no particular order:
- The grass, flowers and trees look nice, and the wind effects on them look good enough to be immersive instead of immersion breaking. Perhaps the grass can be tweaked a little more, but it's not important IMO.
- The sky looks great.
- The ambient sounds of the wind and the birds are great.
- The ambient water sound is good, as are the sounds when splashing into the water.
- The Ren'kai looks pretty good. I like the scales. But I need to see more options to really give feedback on that race.
- The running and jumping animations are good. You keep making small improvements, so good job there!
- The cape movement has been greatly improved since last time, but it's still slightly off sometimes. Not by much, so if you can keep tweaking it, I think it's going to end up perfect. It's already way ahead of anything else I have seen.
- I really like how the shroomiebois and the goblins move around instead of just standing still. It adds positively to it all.
- The radiation fog by the riverbank is much improved from previous streams, where it even appeared up in trees too. But it's still too rigid with borders that are too defined and with sudden shifts instead of a more gradual change and flow. It's not horrible, but it's enough to look unnatural to a point where I notice it negatively.
- The minimap looks great! I like the detail where it is showing red borders if the player is in combat.
- The resurrection effect looks amazing!
- Attack speed increasing ability animation speed is a nice touch.
- As I have said before, I love the direction of the weapon tree system. Please keep fleshing that out.
- The level up animation needs some work I think. Bigger, easier to notice.
- Destructible assets is a great idea! Love to see it.
- Quests really need some AI voice over IMO.
- Mob animation in combat seemed a little off sometimes, with them sliding around. I am sure that'll get better though.
- I like how the goblin shamans actively try to get some distance away in combat before throwing their poison.
- The blizzard spell effect has greatly improved. Good job.
- Everybody in the group having to loot the quest items one by one, effectively meaning a full group is having to kill the same named mob 8 times, is not a great way to do this I think. Some sort of quest progress sharing is needed here. If it's just trash mob drops, not sharing progress can be ok, but not for the specific quest drops from named mobs.
- We really, really need area loot of mobs in this game I think. Having to loot one by one gets old really fast.
About the goblin area in terms of grinding XP, this seems pretty decent. I am not sure it's big enough to support more than two groups from what I saw, so there is that, but in terms of layout and mob respawn and density it looks good. Balance-wise it looks a little easy if 4 people can handle it as well as you did, if it's supposed to be for full parties. But that can be fixed of course.
Nerror
3
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Fighter Archetype Preview Shown in March Livestream
What I loved
Loved the Art and design of the Orc Race. Very menacing
Job well done on the sound effects for the orcs abilities.
Abilities certainly have come a long way since the last fighter showcase and the combat appeared to be more smooth.
The character also not seeming as floaty, while it navigated the terrain was a big help.
What I would have liked to have seen
Show the fighter use the original sword as they did.... kill mobs for the first half of the video with said 2 hander sword. Then loot... 2 -1 hander swords, which would show the different abilities that comes from having said swords....which opens the floor for steven to show how that changes the abilities, the talent tree a bit, etc. All from a simple weapon change.
Speaking of Talent Trees- While just a place holder, I hope it will be more refined and easier to understand what the player is looking at later on. Making it obvious of where the starting point is and the direction of progressions. Example- going left to right or starting at the top and working it's way down.
Abilities bar- Again would like to see more color variation. Green for heals. Gold for blocks, Red for finishing blows. etc. More of a UI related thing. But some archetypes currently have a very similar feel when looking at the ability bar without obvious indicator in what that ability helps with. Oh this is green it must help with healing, this is gold it must be something in regards to blocking, etc.
Job well done intrepid for this showcase. Was a breath of fresh air to see these changes and the progress made to the fighter archetype!
Loved the Art and design of the Orc Race. Very menacing
Job well done on the sound effects for the orcs abilities.
Abilities certainly have come a long way since the last fighter showcase and the combat appeared to be more smooth.
The character also not seeming as floaty, while it navigated the terrain was a big help.
What I would have liked to have seen
Show the fighter use the original sword as they did.... kill mobs for the first half of the video with said 2 hander sword. Then loot... 2 -1 hander swords, which would show the different abilities that comes from having said swords....which opens the floor for steven to show how that changes the abilities, the talent tree a bit, etc. All from a simple weapon change.
Speaking of Talent Trees- While just a place holder, I hope it will be more refined and easier to understand what the player is looking at later on. Making it obvious of where the starting point is and the direction of progressions. Example- going left to right or starting at the top and working it's way down.
Abilities bar- Again would like to see more color variation. Green for heals. Gold for blocks, Red for finishing blows. etc. More of a UI related thing. But some archetypes currently have a very similar feel when looking at the ability bar without obvious indicator in what that ability helps with. Oh this is green it must help with healing, this is gold it must be something in regards to blocking, etc.
Job well done intrepid for this showcase. Was a breath of fresh air to see these changes and the progress made to the fighter archetype!
Re: My PvX != Your PvX
I don't like a hard separation of player base in different zones.When analyzing successful mechanics in other MMORPGs, it seems to me that the ideal PvX system for Ashes of Creation might follow these guidelines:
1. No Forced PvP
2. No Forced PvE
3. PvX Areas with High Risk and Reward
4. PvX Hard Guilds Areas with High Risk and Reward
This is the ideal formula that can satisfy everyone.
What I can see working is to have nodes favor these categories:
For 1) divine nodes with more guards protecting only the divine citizens
For 2) military nodes where they could get rewarded when attacking non-allied caravans
For 3) economic nodes, where players would miss the divine benefits and would be preferred targets
For 4) there are the monthly castle siege events with related events every weekend. These are not node related because guild are everywhere.
Otr
1