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Re: Fixing the Class system
Arya_Yeshe wrote: »lol, let me see one more topic about advice about how to fix the game
Almost pretentious isn't it, thinking that the class system needs fixed when it's not broken. Almost like borderline narcissistic comments like, "Intrepid you can still redeem yourselves in our eyes", like they're aren't some rando on the internet.
It's normal talking about game designs.
What's not normal is complaining about Alpha Keys and such.
And there is nothing surprising here. Many have expressed concern about the 8x8 combo system.
There are other examples of narcissism in these forums, you should start there.
This is a valid topic. Rare these days, a good change from the ones that feel like a typed delirioum during a sugar rush, that result quickly in a meme fest, rivalring the discord.
Btw Steven also said during the AMA that the class system is something he expects to be changed among others.
Re: Fixing the Class system
lol, let me see one more topic about advice about how to fix the game
Re: What is the definition of "Flavor" in reference to the secondary augment system?
Augmentation can fall under different levels of change
Cosmetic - nothing but colors and sparkels, no one expects this to be the case with any augments though they will HAVE a cosmetic effect just to aid recognition.
Flavor - a small addition like a damage proc or buff/debuff application in parelel to original effect but which has no real effect on the tactical impact of a skill, dosn't change playstyle or skill loop that the player would employ, aka no 'realearning' of ones kit is needed. Adding some ice damage on an attack or making gap-closer a blink are examples.
Radical - a big change that makes the skill tactically different and can change how you play your character, but which still achives broadly similar goals such as doing damage to enemies, crowd control, healing allies etc. Players would need to adapt their playstyle heavily from the augment but would not be at square one. Example a Mages long range Fireball becomes a short range Flame Fan attack requiring them to move into near melee range.
Total - the skill is unrecognizable in tactical and gameplay usage and serves a totaly different purpose, a heal becoming an attack for example. The player must relearn the tactical appropriate time to use this skill as if it were brand new. If all their skills were altered like this change their entire role in the party because they no longer do the things they did before.
So far everything we have seen says they are looking at Flavor changes from Augments, which is a real shame because Radical and possibly a few Total changes are needed to actually provide the diversity that players want and need to feel like their secondary archetype is meaningful.
Cosmetic - nothing but colors and sparkels, no one expects this to be the case with any augments though they will HAVE a cosmetic effect just to aid recognition.
Flavor - a small addition like a damage proc or buff/debuff application in parelel to original effect but which has no real effect on the tactical impact of a skill, dosn't change playstyle or skill loop that the player would employ, aka no 'realearning' of ones kit is needed. Adding some ice damage on an attack or making gap-closer a blink are examples.
Radical - a big change that makes the skill tactically different and can change how you play your character, but which still achives broadly similar goals such as doing damage to enemies, crowd control, healing allies etc. Players would need to adapt their playstyle heavily from the augment but would not be at square one. Example a Mages long range Fireball becomes a short range Flame Fan attack requiring them to move into near melee range.
Total - the skill is unrecognizable in tactical and gameplay usage and serves a totaly different purpose, a heal becoming an attack for example. The player must relearn the tactical appropriate time to use this skill as if it were brand new. If all their skills were altered like this change their entire role in the party because they no longer do the things they did before.
So far everything we have seen says they are looking at Flavor changes from Augments, which is a real shame because Radical and possibly a few Total changes are needed to actually provide the diversity that players want and need to feel like their secondary archetype is meaningful.
Lodrig
2
Re: What is the definition of "Flavor" in reference to the secondary augment system?
The main example we've gotten from Steven is the Fighter Charge turning into a Teleport if you chose the Mage as your secondary Archetype.
Following that example, these augments most likely won't be impactful enough to truly change your archetype and playstyle in a significant way like many followers of the game seem to think. If you're playing a Necromancer, a Warden, a Duelist, a Battlemage or any other of the fancy names intrepid came up with, you'll essentially just play a Cleric, a Tank, a Rogue or Mage with some slight adjustments to their existing abilities.
In the end I think a ton of people will be massively disappointed once they realize how minor the differences between the different secondary archetypes will be and I personally think they should abandon the system in favor of another one that allows for more substantial, playstyle-altering changes to the classes. But I guess we'll see over time what they're cooking up.
somewhat agree but also disagree, from a PvE perspective it's usually a numbers game so having a gap closer changed like that isn't going to do much but if a group is using the same class they can go through a dog pile of people instantly to cut down support players.
I hope they do this with all the abilities in the game for example if the tank gets a shield wall then tank/mage can get shield wall that soaks up lots of magic damage, tank/summoner could probably summon a stationary shield wall or larger one. tank/fighter can reflect damage, etc.
Apok
4
Re: What is the definition of "Flavor" in reference to the secondary augment system?
The way I see it, is the secondary archetype will add themes and unique mechanics to the primary archetype.
For example, Rogue is the premier stealth class, that also has high damage and duel wielding. Thus, I would expect any archetype that takes it as a secondary, to gain stealth and probably duel wielding as a mechanic. Stealth may not last as long or work as well as a primary Rogue, but they can now do it. As well as likely having more damage output.
Cleric on the other hand, would add healing into the kit of any archetype that picks it up, or improving the healing of any archetype that already had it.
There may be more cosmetic changes, but I think that's the practical angle.
For example, Rogue is the premier stealth class, that also has high damage and duel wielding. Thus, I would expect any archetype that takes it as a secondary, to gain stealth and probably duel wielding as a mechanic. Stealth may not last as long or work as well as a primary Rogue, but they can now do it. As well as likely having more damage output.
Cleric on the other hand, would add healing into the kit of any archetype that picks it up, or improving the healing of any archetype that already had it.
There may be more cosmetic changes, but I think that's the practical angle.
Yoh
3
Re: Fixing the Class system
AirborneBerserker wrote: »I'm worried about people being upset because the class they were promised is a sub class.
I'm worried that the lack of playstyles will amount to lower sales on launch.
That will definitely happen to a few People who refuse to inform themselves about the Archetype-Class System.
But honestly now -> who in their right Mind would be insane enough " NOT " to inform themselves, when they see something as incredible as " 64 Classes " being promised ?
People should realise there is a bit of a catch. So many Classes ? At Launch ? I wouldn't be surprised if there would never be as many actual "Classes" in any MMO that might still come out in our Lifetimes.
I don't think there will be any real lack of Playstyles only because the finished Game will have just "Eight" actually truly different Classes a.k.a. Archetypes at Launch.
You can give your best to play as a Hero.
Or as a total Scumbag. (lol)
Or as a Mercenary. Defending or attacking Caravans.
Or as a Merchant. A Craftsman. A Storekeeper. A Farmer. A Sailor. A Pirate. A Soldier. A Cultist. An Explorer. An Adventurer. A Daredevil. Or maybe just ... ... ... ... ... ... a mere Citizen - giving his best for his Node.
While You fight countless, scary Creatures, Monsters, maybe even mighty Dragons or Demigod-like, fallen Ancients. Side by Side with your many fellow Node-Citizens.
Aszkalon
2
Re: Next Livestream + Q&A Submission - Friday, August 30, 2024 at 11am Pacific
Given the recent changes in the lighting model I thought to ask, 'should we expect all summons to glow?'
JustVine
1
Re: Next Livestream + Q&A Submission - Friday, August 30, 2024 at 11am Pacific
You mentioned increasing the level cap during phase 3, does that mean we will see the implementation of secondary archetypes by then as well?
Re: Fixing the Class system
Fix implies it’s broken. It isn’t even built yet.
Think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding over this project. Intrepid is giving you access to the development of an MMORPG in the mold of old style games. They are not having the fans make decisions about how the game will be made. Oh they may consider feedback and might even have polls on subjects, but they aren’t designing the game based on what you or I suggest. They might like an idea or two, but an entire class system isn’t up for discussion. We can talk about it, sure, but may as well to do that on Reddit, the cesspit that it is.
The class system they are using is based on a previous game that Steven likes and played. Believe that game ended up with 128 “classes”.
While Stephen has roots in D&D and Pathfinder, this isn’t those games. Wow ain’t it either.
Think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding over this project. Intrepid is giving you access to the development of an MMORPG in the mold of old style games. They are not having the fans make decisions about how the game will be made. Oh they may consider feedback and might even have polls on subjects, but they aren’t designing the game based on what you or I suggest. They might like an idea or two, but an entire class system isn’t up for discussion. We can talk about it, sure, but may as well to do that on Reddit, the cesspit that it is.
The class system they are using is based on a previous game that Steven likes and played. Believe that game ended up with 128 “classes”.
While Stephen has roots in D&D and Pathfinder, this isn’t those games. Wow ain’t it either.