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Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
If the PvP-ers at the bottom can defeat PvE players, will those PvE players stay in the game?
I have the feeling somebody will leave anyway, is just that they leave from two bottoms.
Then after a while IS will have to create content for the top PvPers and top PvEers who still play the game.
Those PvE players will stay if the PvE is good enough.
People leave games if they keep losing at things they care about (among other reasons - this is the reason we are focusing on here). To a PvP player, that is PvP.
However, to that PvE player, they don't care as much if they lose at PvP, as long as they are enjoying and being successful with the games PvE.
In an MMORPG in which PvP is a core aspect, and losing in PvP has punishment, it should stand to basic reason that not everyone in the game can be there for the PvP.
Noaani
1
Re: Current Combat in Ashes: Updated
Combat can save this game.
But looking at it, its combat still doesn't convince anyone unless you're a tab target lover, so if they don't manage to change or modify the current combat, this game will die.
Lastly, my go-to games for perfect combat would be Elden Ring, New World, BDO, action combat in general.
But looking at it, its combat still doesn't convince anyone unless you're a tab target lover, so if they don't manage to change or modify the current combat, this game will die.
Lastly, my go-to games for perfect combat would be Elden Ring, New World, BDO, action combat in general.
Current Combat in Ashes: Updated
Hey Ashes Community,
I think these recent updates look great, but I still feel the combat look is looking dull from an animation and impact stand point. I also think the visual clarity is currently TERRIBLE.
This also seems to be the number 1 complaint I see about Ashes that I see over and over again. People seem to think that combat at this point won’t radically change and it’s close to the finish product. Intrepid has to be aware how vital good combat is and that people continuously cite combat as this games weakest link, and yet they rarely directly acknowledge this behind the scene design thoughts are rarely shared.
My question for the Devs is:
How much are you guys willing to overhaul combat at this point? Say alpha two launches and the combat is still unanimously the considered the weakest part of the game, at this point in development are you guys able to radically change it given that’s what the community wants?
And for the community, what are your thoughts on how combat currently looks and feels?
I think these recent updates look great, but I still feel the combat look is looking dull from an animation and impact stand point. I also think the visual clarity is currently TERRIBLE.
This also seems to be the number 1 complaint I see about Ashes that I see over and over again. People seem to think that combat at this point won’t radically change and it’s close to the finish product. Intrepid has to be aware how vital good combat is and that people continuously cite combat as this games weakest link, and yet they rarely directly acknowledge this behind the scene design thoughts are rarely shared.
My question for the Devs is:
How much are you guys willing to overhaul combat at this point? Say alpha two launches and the combat is still unanimously the considered the weakest part of the game, at this point in development are you guys able to radically change it given that’s what the community wants?
And for the community, what are your thoughts on how combat currently looks and feels?
RonDog98
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
At this point I am seriously wondering what you are trying to achieve here.
Is this a purely theoretic discussion about game design or do you hope intrepid will take this to heart, scrap the class system to harvest their biggest shitstorm yet for going back on one of the most central aspects of this game and make up 4-5 new Archetypes?
I know you do not like the class system and doubt that it can be done to a satisfactory degree. But this is not the way to go about it. I'm not sure why the augmentation system is such a huge point of contempt, it one of multiple system to individualize a character. It is not meant to single handedly "create a unique class & role" or anything, its meant to tweak the base abilities of an archetype (and all roles that can be fulfilled with that choice) into the direction the individual player feels most comfortable with / cover some extra ground with them.
Lastly I am really wondering about the timing. You are clearly invested and thats great but putting out a HUGE post with comments on all sorts of systems when waiting a few weeks and providing feedback on those systems individually would be much more accessible for the devs and community. It just seems to me like a lot of energy shooting right past the target.
Is this a purely theoretic discussion about game design or do you hope intrepid will take this to heart, scrap the class system to harvest their biggest shitstorm yet for going back on one of the most central aspects of this game and make up 4-5 new Archetypes?
I know you do not like the class system and doubt that it can be done to a satisfactory degree. But this is not the way to go about it. I'm not sure why the augmentation system is such a huge point of contempt, it one of multiple system to individualize a character. It is not meant to single handedly "create a unique class & role" or anything, its meant to tweak the base abilities of an archetype (and all roles that can be fulfilled with that choice) into the direction the individual player feels most comfortable with / cover some extra ground with them.
Lastly I am really wondering about the timing. You are clearly invested and thats great but putting out a HUGE post with comments on all sorts of systems when waiting a few weeks and providing feedback on those systems individually would be much more accessible for the devs and community. It just seems to me like a lot of energy shooting right past the target.
Kilion
5
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Why do you need 2 personal threads for this... to add to the other 3+ threads. These all need to get merged at this point.
Mag7spy
2
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
At this rate I'm getting tempted to make a thread asking for a Dislike button
Caeryl
16
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Posting a comment to sign my approval of Solvryn's stance here. I'm just going to copy and paste the summation of my argument (which is only really focusing on one point) that I gathered from a long argument in Discord.
Copy+Paste:
Should difficult PvE encounters be required to be in instances?
No. The only thing instances achieve is isolating a player group from everyone else so they can focus on the content purely.
You can achieve that same isolation by making well designed open world dungeons.
There's nothing stopping an "open world boss" to be located at the end of a cave system that takes two hours to clear minibosses and varoius mobs to get to which then has a massive arena that allows for all the complexities of instanced content to be used. The journey to the boss achieves that isolation of players.
I'd much rather that exist since then it's effectively "instanced content" but it still allows a chance for a rival group can show up.
Concerned about zergs? Intrepid has stated that boss abilities will scale based on the number of players that show up for the fight. Assuming this works as described, then zergs will have a much more difficult time staying alive. Even if they do stay alive, we know that content only drops a certain amount of rewards regardless of how many players show up. Rewarding content will likely be on either lengthy respawn timers or require a certain unlocking condition to be met in order to spawn them. It would not be worth it for a group of say 300 to zerg a boss down knowing that it will only drop at the most 3 pieces of gear and enough materials to craft 5 other pieces of gear. It's a waste of time when that group could be split into 6 other smaller groups that focus on different areas of the world.
It's important for AoC to avoid instanced content as much as possible since the basis of the game is player interaction.
Copy+Paste:
Should difficult PvE encounters be required to be in instances?
No. The only thing instances achieve is isolating a player group from everyone else so they can focus on the content purely.
You can achieve that same isolation by making well designed open world dungeons.
There's nothing stopping an "open world boss" to be located at the end of a cave system that takes two hours to clear minibosses and varoius mobs to get to which then has a massive arena that allows for all the complexities of instanced content to be used. The journey to the boss achieves that isolation of players.
I'd much rather that exist since then it's effectively "instanced content" but it still allows a chance for a rival group can show up.
Concerned about zergs? Intrepid has stated that boss abilities will scale based on the number of players that show up for the fight. Assuming this works as described, then zergs will have a much more difficult time staying alive. Even if they do stay alive, we know that content only drops a certain amount of rewards regardless of how many players show up. Rewarding content will likely be on either lengthy respawn timers or require a certain unlocking condition to be met in order to spawn them. It would not be worth it for a group of say 300 to zerg a boss down knowing that it will only drop at the most 3 pieces of gear and enough materials to craft 5 other pieces of gear. It's a waste of time when that group could be split into 6 other smaller groups that focus on different areas of the world.
It's important for AoC to avoid instanced content as much as possible since the basis of the game is player interaction.
Re: Consternation surrounding the 8x8 Class system and how to move forward.
Yep. That's why when my co-hosts on the Ashen Forge were saying that A2 is going to be on track for Q3, I was saying... "I mean, they can definitely open A2 in Q3, but what would be in it. Because one of my measures for Alpha 2 being ready is that we see an Augment showcase."I'm honestly surprised at the lack of progress here. I don't care why it is and I am not here to prophesy doom or even massive delay or question their overall ability to understand or take the feedback. But I am switching my mode of interacting with this 'problem' to 'giving way too many suggestions and lecturing'. I am taking this as a yeah we basically haven't locked in much of this and might need some inspiration based on what I know of their rudimentary balance framework/ability design schema.
I find it also concerning that we've seen Tank, Cleric and Mage showcased three times before we've seen Rogue and Summoner.
But... it is what it is.
(I don't think they need help with inspiration for Augments. Rather, they haven't even locked down the Active Skills yet.)
Dygz
1
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Claiming that a open world boss can be just as demanding as an instanced one makes me wonder if you have ever experienced top pve content in AAA MMOs (wow, or better FF14, the ultimates are just better designed)
Its not even debatable, as far as encounter challenge goes when designing a boss, a pure pve instanced encounter can be tuned to be drastically more complex, and its meant for a different purpose and audience than the pvx game.
A pvx encounter requires all mechanics to be simple. Step out of the fire style mechanics (same thing showed in the update this week). Only when mechanics are so simplified can a team respond to both the boss and a pvp ambush.
We already saw instanced boss in the alpha1 dungeon, we know 20% of content will be instanced. That means the rest will be open world, contestable by pvp
If that destroys the game for some people, well, ashes isnt for everyone.
Its not even debatable, as far as encounter challenge goes when designing a boss, a pure pve instanced encounter can be tuned to be drastically more complex, and its meant for a different purpose and audience than the pvx game.
A pvx encounter requires all mechanics to be simple. Step out of the fire style mechanics (same thing showed in the update this week). Only when mechanics are so simplified can a team respond to both the boss and a pvp ambush.
We already saw instanced boss in the alpha1 dungeon, we know 20% of content will be instanced. That means the rest will be open world, contestable by pvp
If that destroys the game for some people, well, ashes isnt for everyone.
Taerrik
1
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
I believe the issue is people don't perceive the risk the same.
If the Risk is high and the content is difficult where majority cant complete it, this is good for the game.
I believe that these raid bosses should drop items and materials, and force the materials to be transported back to town and create the spy/tracking of guilds raid nights and gank caravans. It then allows for the risk for pvp to still have its place.
I will always champion high skill ceiling for PvE and PvP both should exist in Ashes as long as the pillars for both can have proper checks and balances and don't completely dimmish the other.
If the Risk is high and the content is difficult where majority cant complete it, this is good for the game.
I believe that these raid bosses should drop items and materials, and force the materials to be transported back to town and create the spy/tracking of guilds raid nights and gank caravans. It then allows for the risk for pvp to still have its place.
I will always champion high skill ceiling for PvE and PvP both should exist in Ashes as long as the pillars for both can have proper checks and balances and don't completely dimmish the other.
Gundel
1