Best Of
Re: The best implementation of AoE
Haven't seen you on the Forums before, so I'll just go ahead and say: Welcome!
Who is "We"?
Who are you working for?! O_O
No. I'm not playing dance dance revolution where the sky lights up and I have to hop into the right area.
In an MMORPGs where people use their brains instead of putting the game on a second screen while listening to Crypto Bro 420 playing ASMR Minecraft, sometime there are subtle indicators on the ground to avoid an AOE ability, sometimes there are none because the movement of the enemy gives away whats about to hit or in PvP I should have reserved some saving (shield/movement) ability to escape a sudden AoE spell.
Players who want training wheels in a game that promotes itself as "challenging", might just want to stick with FF or WoW where even high end raid bosses have indicators for EVERYTHING that the boss is about to do.
The Blizzard-Spell of the mage and the Whirlwind of the Fighter are great examples for how a good AoE spell should look IMO. There are some "natural" indicators that mark the area of effect and those suffice.
No. Just like like you need to learn the skills of your enemies, you need to learn the skills of your parties. And with them its even easier, you can just plan ahead or talk during the fight to do group combos. There is no need for more help for your allies.
They get the same indicators that the allies get, they don't get acces the communication and information about which combos are being pulled off.
No.
Ashes of Creation Livestreams look pretty neat, the most recent livestream looked great, the open world PvP from the Node Wars livestream looked a bit chaotic but overall fine, what I liked is that there was no special treatment for anyone, skills were treated exactly like that: Skills.
There is no need for different treatment of when an enemy or ally uses a skill, battleground awareness includes recognizing who is firing what and putting training wheels on that process every time something is slightly different is counter productive to the goal of challenging the players.
1. Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
Who is "We"?
Who are you working for?! O_O
AoE abilities are a core concept of mmos and need to be displayed very clearly for solo and group PvE situations very clear undercurrent translucent markings should be displayed brightly for those of your party and self in your party. With settings to minimize it to only self. It’s important to create a sense of timing and understanding of technical spacing on skills this way and will show through high saturation of multiple abilities for a sense of structure.
No. I'm not playing dance dance revolution where the sky lights up and I have to hop into the right area.
In an MMORPGs where people use their brains instead of putting the game on a second screen while listening to Crypto Bro 420 playing ASMR Minecraft, sometime there are subtle indicators on the ground to avoid an AOE ability, sometimes there are none because the movement of the enemy gives away whats about to hit or in PvP I should have reserved some saving (shield/movement) ability to escape a sudden AoE spell.
Players who want training wheels in a game that promotes itself as "challenging", might just want to stick with FF or WoW where even high end raid bosses have indicators for EVERYTHING that the boss is about to do.
2. In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies
The Blizzard-Spell of the mage and the Whirlwind of the Fighter are great examples for how a good AoE spell should look IMO. There are some "natural" indicators that mark the area of effect and those suffice.
Friendly players should always be able to clearly see what you’re doing to help group play and even as a tool to help teach those in your party if you see them doing something sub-par with a skill, or where best for them to place a certain aoe, so very for friendly grouped players.
No. Just like like you need to learn the skills of your enemies, you need to learn the skills of your parties. And with them its even easier, you can just plan ahead or talk during the fight to do group combos. There is no need for more help for your allies.
Enemy players again shouldn’t have many or any telegraphs to grow skill ceiling and allow players to have a reason to learn all the abilities natural setups from playing with them or through alts to learn what players might do in PvP without the telegraph help.
They get the same indicators that the allies get, they don't get acces the communication and information about which combos are being pulled off.
4. Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No.
5. Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
Ashes of Creation Livestreams look pretty neat, the most recent livestream looked great, the open world PvP from the Node Wars livestream looked a bit chaotic but overall fine, what I liked is that there was no special treatment for anyone, skills were treated exactly like that: Skills.
There is no need for different treatment of when an enemy or ally uses a skill, battleground awareness includes recognizing who is firing what and putting training wheels on that process every time something is slightly different is counter productive to the goal of challenging the players.
Kilion
1
Re: The best implementation of AoE
AoE abilities are indeed central to MMO gameplay, and how they’re displayed can significantly impact both PvE and PvP experiences. I think the approach to AoE telegraphing should strike a balance between clarity for teammates and challenge for opponents.
For PvE, clear visual cues for AoE abilities are essential, especially in group settings. Being able to see where an ability will land allows players to coordinate effectively and avoid unnecessary damage. However, in PvP, reducing the visibility of enemy AoE markers can raise the skill ceiling, rewarding players who take the time to learn ability animations and timings. This approach enhances the tactical depth of encounters, making them more engaging and rewarding for skilled players.
Drawing from Guild Wars 2, their use of elemental combos within AoE fields is a great example of how clear and interactive AoE mechanics can add depth to combat. For instance, when a player lays down a fire field, another player can trigger it with a blast finisher to create powerful effects like Might. This system not only encourages teamwork but also adds layers of strategy that could greatly benefit Ashes of Creation.
Incorporating a similar system in Ashes of Creation would allow for both complexity and clarity in combat, enhancing both PvE coordination and PvP strategy. Balancing these aspects is crucial to ensure the game remains challenging and rewarding across all types of gameplay.
For PvE, clear visual cues for AoE abilities are essential, especially in group settings. Being able to see where an ability will land allows players to coordinate effectively and avoid unnecessary damage. However, in PvP, reducing the visibility of enemy AoE markers can raise the skill ceiling, rewarding players who take the time to learn ability animations and timings. This approach enhances the tactical depth of encounters, making them more engaging and rewarding for skilled players.
Drawing from Guild Wars 2, their use of elemental combos within AoE fields is a great example of how clear and interactive AoE mechanics can add depth to combat. For instance, when a player lays down a fire field, another player can trigger it with a blast finisher to create powerful effects like Might. This system not only encourages teamwork but also adds layers of strategy that could greatly benefit Ashes of Creation.
Incorporating a similar system in Ashes of Creation would allow for both complexity and clarity in combat, enhancing both PvE coordination and PvP strategy. Balancing these aspects is crucial to ensure the game remains challenging and rewarding across all types of gameplay.
ReLamas
1
Re: Loot System Changes
Players can also to be kicked out from the group before the looting starts.
That is not a good thing
A guild need to fill to manage a raid.
They invite a couple of players, just to kick them before loot starts to ensure the guild gets the loot.
Or any raidleader really who want to make sure his competition is gone before the loot, so he kicks everyone who might need on the same drops.
don't group with that guild then ;3
Depraved
1
Re: Steven's response to secondary archetypes
Taleof2Cities wrote: »This is a paper rock scissor combat system. If you are metta at something. It means your a really top end rock let's say. Meaning your counter is out there and you will be spanked. Look out for that paper, your end is near.
There are many sure things about Ashes of Creation that we can take Steven's word on, nanfoodle.
Unfortunately, combat balance is one of the few topics we'll have to take a wait and see approach.
Remember the Combat Team is tasked with balancing a game with 8 archetypes, 8 secondaries, weapon skills, gear, religious affiliations, and so on ... and across many different content types (sieges, instanced raids, ocean combat, caravans, overland PvPvE, etc.)
I support the rock, paper, scissors combat design in Ashes. It's one of the reasons I'm here. But, it's not as easy as a simple re-quote from the devs.
But it is easier to balance. Rock play style has to much of an advantage boost paper or new paper options. Of course you can make you rock build and augment with religion and other options to balance your class a little to make you almost balance between rock, paper and scissors but then you will not have a character that can shine is one area.
Sure like any game, there will be meta but gamers can change their deck to counter that build. I'm sure IS will need practical experience at balancing this but it's much more manageable.
Really comes down to how creative IS staff can be.
Re: Steven's response to secondary archetypes
Nope. The balance comes from the Active Skills of the Primary Archetypes.ThevoicestHeVoIcEs wrote: »Nevermind the balance, from what was said in the past the intention is to balance classes on group level. When it comes to number of classes, Dark Age of Camelot came close, 45?
Which is why encounters are balanced for an 8-person Group with one of each Primary Archetype.
Dygz
1
Re: Steven's response to secondary archetypes
He responded there are various ideas in the table. Secondary archetypes may effect damage values, cooldowns, mana cost, range of abilities, ect.
Furthermore, they may effect the visual graphics of spells.
Yes, Please.
I really do plan to play one of my Characters - probably my Main - as a Necromancer.
Yes Please. Give me the greenish, or purple'ish, or ghostly blue'ish glowy Magic which a Necromancer should be able to have.
Yes. Please give me my Boney Servants, or Zombies - or whatever else is on the Table as a Summoner, which is different from a probably more Nature/Life-Loving Summoner.
I think i don't even ask for something difficult like something completely new. Just for basic Stuff that other VideoGames also got done many many Years ago.
Aszkalon
1
Re: Steven's response to secondary archetypes
This is a paper rock scissor combat system. If you are metta at something. It means your a really top end rock let's say. Meaning your counter is out there and you will be spanked. Look out for that paper, your end is near.
There are many sure things about Ashes of Creation that we can take Steven's word on, nanfoodle.
Unfortunately, combat balance is one of the few topics we'll have to take a wait and see approach.
Remember the Combat Team is tasked with balancing a game with 8 archetypes, 8 secondaries, weapon skills, gear, religious affiliations, and so on ... and across many different content types (sieges, instanced raids, ocean combat, caravans, overland PvPvE, etc.)
I support the rock, paper, scissors combat design in Ashes. It's one of the reasons I'm here. But, it's not as easy as a simple re-quote from the devs.
Re: Vassal resentment
after today's podcast. I am 100% one of the petty & vindictive people that won't accept being a vassal no matter what the reward structure looks like. the thought of someone else being in an inherently better position than me (if not mechanically then prestige wise) is something I tend to act in resentment of. I would rather do everything to tear down the owning node than join it in any capacity.
there are absolutely going to be people like that in the game.
now that being said. we have not actually tried the vassal system at all. but what are the community's initial view on it?
it seems to me that a lot of people are having a gut reaction to immediately want to rebel but are there some who see this in a more optimistic light?
If your node is a vassal of another node, it is because you lost.
This isn't like losing in a PvP match, where it is 5 minutes of investment. Rather, this is months of investment.
If you lose and your node becomes a vassal instead of a parent, you should find yourself at a disadvantage in some way.
However, if your plan is to get back at that parent node, the first and most important thing you will need to do is leave your current node.
Fact is, that node already lost to the parent node, and as your node is now limited in grown, it will probably lose people. On top of that, the parent node that you lost to is now going to attract more people. So, you already lost with your node which is now getting smaller, to the parent node that is now getting bigger. If you want revenge against that node, it is not going to happen for you where you are.
It's basically a choice between sticking with your node and hoping for better circumstances, or acting on that desire for revenge. Both are long term commitments.
Noaani
4
Re: Steven's response to secondary archetypes
I know this has been discussed before, but we have some new info. Steven's answer to the secondary archetypes gave us a better idea of where they may go with secondary archetypes. I was curious what people thought about his answer and what they want to see.
He responded there are various ideas in the table. Secondary archetypes may effect damage values, cooldowns, mana cost, range of abilities, ect. Furthermore, they may effect the visual graphics of spells.
In my opinion, you can't go wrong with changing visual effects. This would only increase the unique customization of the character. However, damage values, cooldowns, and otherwise makes me fear the inevitability of a meta class. I would hate to see every single PvP player running tank or cleric secondary because of their common PvP benefits. That limits builds and "forces" us to commit to a build we don't enjoy to be the most effective.
but there could be people who enjoy those builds, so they get to play a powerful build and enjoy it.
also, I think they will give us lots of elemental options for the secondary archetypes aimed at changing our main elemental attribute, so if you spec full for PVP, then you might be lacking in pve or it could be that speccing for PVP is about picking and changing attributes to hit people who don't resist your damage.
Depraved
1
Steven's response to secondary archetypes
I know this has been discussed before, but we have some new info. Steven's answer to the secondary archetypes gave us a better idea of where they may go with secondary archetypes. I was curious what people thought about his answer and what they want to see.
He responded there are various ideas in the table. Secondary archetypes may effect damage values, cooldowns, mana cost, range of abilities, ect. Furthermore, they may effect the visual graphics of spells.
In my opinion, you can't go wrong with changing visual effects. This would only increase the unique customization of the character. However, damage values, cooldowns, and otherwise makes me fear the inevitability of a meta class. I would hate to see every single PvP player running tank or cleric secondary because of their common PvP benefits. That limits builds and "forces" us to commit to a build we don't enjoy to be the most effective.
He responded there are various ideas in the table. Secondary archetypes may effect damage values, cooldowns, mana cost, range of abilities, ect. Furthermore, they may effect the visual graphics of spells.
In my opinion, you can't go wrong with changing visual effects. This would only increase the unique customization of the character. However, damage values, cooldowns, and otherwise makes me fear the inevitability of a meta class. I would hate to see every single PvP player running tank or cleric secondary because of their common PvP benefits. That limits builds and "forces" us to commit to a build we don't enjoy to be the most effective.
Morgalf
1