Best Of
Re: Summoner wishlist
I've been saying for a while now that Summoners need an archetypal resource system (like Momentum and Courage) to manage summoned minion counts AND any buffs or orders they give to them.
- With no summons you have 100 'Willpower' or what ever it is called.
- Each summoning consumes some of this willpower while the summon is allive and frees it up when it dies or is dispelled.
- Current willpower level gives a bonus to summoning speed so getting that first summon up when a battle starts is fast and it then slows down.
- Their are several types of summons available, a Tanky one, a DPS one, a ranged one, and a cheap generic one at minimum. The actual theme may change based on secondary archetype and abilities, damage types etc may change but the pattern remain.
- Each summon type consumes a different base amount of Willpower, but this can be modified by skills in the Summoner skill tree.
- For each summon type their is a skill to cheapen its cost, boost its power while raising cost and to add special procs or abilities the summon will use automatically.
- As with all skill trees you cant get everything so specializing what your summon can do is required
- In battle you have flexibility as to what summons to summon and how many commands to give. 2 Tanky minnions might be better in one situation, while 5 cheap generics might be better at other times
- Commands are the 'support spells' of the Summoner and are Willpower consuming perment until dispelled AoE's or flags placed on the ground that cause all nearby summons to follow the command, think of these as basic attack and defence RTS orders, they work without needing to select individual summons and don't care about the number of summons.
- Commands may also buff the summons that are obeying them, these buffs are gained with passive nodes on the skill tree and allow a summoner to specialize as a 'general' who puts more time into directing summons vs just letting the AI attack as it wishes.
- Commands are optional playstyle and can pair equally well with a small number of strong summons or a large number of weak ones.
- Forgoing Commands means more willpower available for Summons to balance the lack of coordination and buffing. Again this is a battle to battle and even moment to moment choice the summoner must make.
Lodrig
1
Re: Summoner wishlist
I'm in it for the story. I want summons with personality and character, as well as quests.
Mechanics I am more partial to Final Fantasy 11 (and 10), with the single big honking summons. But I do also enjoy the hordes of chaff that degrade over time, that you have to constantly replace. It should depend on the type of summoner you are. Ie, what archetype combination.
Different strokes for different blokes.
Mechanics I am more partial to Final Fantasy 11 (and 10), with the single big honking summons. But I do also enjoy the hordes of chaff that degrade over time, that you have to constantly replace. It should depend on the type of summoner you are. Ie, what archetype combination.
Different strokes for different blokes.
Yoh
1
Re: [FRANCOPHONE] | THE ETERNAL ASHES | COMPETITIF&CASUAL |PVX |SOCIAL |20+|
Bonjour,
le lien vers ton discord n'est pas permanant.
le lien vers ton discord n'est pas permanant.
Muninnfr
1
Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
I've just finished editing and uploaded a detailed video about a topic that, in my opinion, has been undeservingly forgotten. I'm not making this thread for self-promotion purpose - I am genuinely concerned about a bullet that Ashes of Creation must dodge at all cost. Obviously, I will provide a detailed TL;DW below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U535dxJ-ifs
One of my main concerns about Ashes of Creation is leveling speed. According to wiki, it would take approximately 45 days of playing 4-6 hours per day to reach level 50, which is ~225 hours. Which is not much at all and it will inevitably lead to some, or even all problems I described in the video.
1. The average player would reach level 50 within approximately ~2 months. It means the only future updates he will care about are those related to endgame. Therefore, Intrepid will be forced to prioritize endgame content to prevent those players from leaving; this will not stop and will only get worse over time.
2. Those ~2 months might not even be relevant on release. Alpha 2 and Beta phases have no NDA. Therefore, there will be plenty of YouTube guides about leveling up fast.
3. Those ~2 months will be even less relevant post launch: nodes will be more developed, economy will function, market will have everything a player needs. Also, players will be able to get help from friends, guilds etc. They might also get powerleveled by their high-level friends even with current restrictions (for example, level 42 player can get carried in a group of lvl 50 players in high level zones)
4. Official launch may be messy, so at first devs might need to focus on fixing bugs and other issues, instead of new content. Slower leveling would buy Intrepid more time.
5. Slower progression extends the longevity of the game. Simple example: x1 Lineage 2 servers could stay active for years. Servers with x5, x10 or higher rates normally lasted several months at best, despite the fact that players were literally playing the same game. And yes, there were many casual players in Lineage 2 as well.
6. Fast leveling leads to having more alts with different artisan skills. As a result, the whole idea of interdependent player relationships will slowly die. Especially, if we take into account, that artisan level does not really require adventuring level.
7. The faster the leveling is, the more low- and mid-level content players tend to skip. Taking into accounts #1, #2 and #3, the situation will only get worse over time.
8. As a result of #7, the low- and mid-level economy slowly but surely dies over time. New World is a perfect example. Seen the same in Lineage 2 as well.
9. Another point brought up on stream by @Pawkets yesterday: slower leveling will keep taverns with upgraded beds for rested XP more relevant for a longer period of time. After ~ 3 months post-launch a significant percentage of players will reach the level cap and those upgrades won't be really relevant for them anymore.
I also review the main arguments against making the leveling longer, such as:
2. Casual players will be left behind (TL;DW: not really)
3. Complaint about freeholds requiring level 50 (TL;DW: this widespread opinion comes from lack of understanding how freehold system works)
4. Long leveling may be boring (TL;DW: not necessarily, especially if Intrepid delivers what they promised)
5. A widespread belief that the real game and fun only starts at level 50 (TL;DW: true for many other games, not true for AoC)
Ultimate solution that may potentially satisfy everyone:
1. Make the original Ashes of Creation leveling 2-3-5-whatever times longer.
2. Adjust the amount of rested XP received, so that those who play less could have a better XP bonus.
3. Alternatively, after the release, launch servers with x3-x5-x20-whatever rates for those who don't think that arguments from #1 till #8 make any sense; and for those who want to play Ashes only for a few months and then move on to other games.
P.S.Do we really want Ashes of Creation to follow the same fate as a high-rate Lineage 2 server, especially after waiting for it for so many years? Do we want to play Ashes of Creation for a few months, or we want it to captivate us for years, like a true MMO should?
UPDATE: KEY REFERENCES
1. Why I think this is an issue: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/471198/#Comment_471198
2. Statistical data for the example I provided: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/471207/#Comment_471207
3. General topic about leveling speed: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/58957/leveling-speed/p1
4. Local clown @Noaani claimed that "nobody cares and nobody wants longer leveling". I prove why many people actually care about it here, but have those people have no desire to interact with his spam and engage in pointless debates with local population of clowns: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/472821/#Comment_472821
5. Steven talking about leveling speed during the recent interview: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/476064/#Comment_476064
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U535dxJ-ifs
One of my main concerns about Ashes of Creation is leveling speed. According to wiki, it would take approximately 45 days of playing 4-6 hours per day to reach level 50, which is ~225 hours. Which is not much at all and it will inevitably lead to some, or even all problems I described in the video.
1. The average player would reach level 50 within approximately ~2 months. It means the only future updates he will care about are those related to endgame. Therefore, Intrepid will be forced to prioritize endgame content to prevent those players from leaving; this will not stop and will only get worse over time.
2. Those ~2 months might not even be relevant on release. Alpha 2 and Beta phases have no NDA. Therefore, there will be plenty of YouTube guides about leveling up fast.
3. Those ~2 months will be even less relevant post launch: nodes will be more developed, economy will function, market will have everything a player needs. Also, players will be able to get help from friends, guilds etc. They might also get powerleveled by their high-level friends even with current restrictions (for example, level 42 player can get carried in a group of lvl 50 players in high level zones)
4. Official launch may be messy, so at first devs might need to focus on fixing bugs and other issues, instead of new content. Slower leveling would buy Intrepid more time.
5. Slower progression extends the longevity of the game. Simple example: x1 Lineage 2 servers could stay active for years. Servers with x5, x10 or higher rates normally lasted several months at best, despite the fact that players were literally playing the same game. And yes, there were many casual players in Lineage 2 as well.
6. Fast leveling leads to having more alts with different artisan skills. As a result, the whole idea of interdependent player relationships will slowly die. Especially, if we take into account, that artisan level does not really require adventuring level.
7. The faster the leveling is, the more low- and mid-level content players tend to skip. Taking into accounts #1, #2 and #3, the situation will only get worse over time.
8. As a result of #7, the low- and mid-level economy slowly but surely dies over time. New World is a perfect example. Seen the same in Lineage 2 as well.
9. Another point brought up on stream by @Pawkets yesterday: slower leveling will keep taverns with upgraded beds for rested XP more relevant for a longer period of time. After ~ 3 months post-launch a significant percentage of players will reach the level cap and those upgrades won't be really relevant for them anymore.
I also review the main arguments against making the leveling longer, such as:
2. Casual players will be left behind (TL;DW: not really)
3. Complaint about freeholds requiring level 50 (TL;DW: this widespread opinion comes from lack of understanding how freehold system works)
4. Long leveling may be boring (TL;DW: not necessarily, especially if Intrepid delivers what they promised)
5. A widespread belief that the real game and fun only starts at level 50 (TL;DW: true for many other games, not true for AoC)
Ultimate solution that may potentially satisfy everyone:
1. Make the original Ashes of Creation leveling 2-3-5-whatever times longer.
2. Adjust the amount of rested XP received, so that those who play less could have a better XP bonus.
3. Alternatively, after the release, launch servers with x3-x5-x20-whatever rates for those who don't think that arguments from #1 till #8 make any sense; and for those who want to play Ashes only for a few months and then move on to other games.
P.S.Do we really want Ashes of Creation to follow the same fate as a high-rate Lineage 2 server, especially after waiting for it for so many years? Do we want to play Ashes of Creation for a few months, or we want it to captivate us for years, like a true MMO should?
UPDATE: KEY REFERENCES
1. Why I think this is an issue: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/471198/#Comment_471198
2. Statistical data for the example I provided: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/471207/#Comment_471207
3. General topic about leveling speed: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/58957/leveling-speed/p1
4. Local clown @Noaani claimed that "nobody cares and nobody wants longer leveling". I prove why many people actually care about it here, but have those people have no desire to interact with his spam and engage in pointless debates with local population of clowns: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/472821/#Comment_472821
5. Steven talking about leveling speed during the recent interview: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/476064/#Comment_476064
Flanker
12
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
And I personally consider all of those "great pvpers" casual, cause if you can see your enemy's hp value - the decision making becomes so much easier. You don't need to track who healed who, who dmged what, what builds the other side has - none of that. You just see low hp person and go "d-duuuhh, we gotta hit that one".Those Arenas, BGs in WoW etc. - cool story bro, you might be a truly great PvPer. But this has nothing to do with open world PvP. You will still be harassed and eventually dead under these circumstances and there would absolutely nothing you can do, apart from going somewhere else.
And mobas are also a great example of this. I don't even know how many times I saw people absolutely fumble to take an objective purely because they saw an enemy player at low hp and went chasing after him, instead of hitting the tower or the ancient.
In L2, the binary nature of hp let everyone follow commands, because if the shotcaller said "this guy must die" - that guy would be dead one way or the other, because none of the people that heard the command are distracted from executing the command. Each group is a unit and works as one, instead of being a collection of single players who just throw around their spells at any, seemingly, opportune target.
Ludullu
4
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
I like being able to tell how much health my opponent has left. I don't see the merit of not having this.
Still better than no HP at all.
I‘m a fan of knowing the precise HP, all buffs, all debuffs, all coldowns (if possible). Last 20y of my MMO experience I needed that in pvp, and to play high ranked pvp (like Arena or rated BG in WoW or sPvP in GW2
Boys, the moment when a stronger player or a group comes to a spot where you are farming mobs, you will learn very quickly why that's an issue. You will be forcefully kept at 25% HP while PVEing with 0 risk for other side to go PK. Eventually, you die and get death penalty. End of story.
Those Arenas, BGs in WoW etc. - cool story bro, you might be a truly great PvPer. But this has nothing to do with open world PvP. You will still be harassed and eventually dead under these circumstances and there would absolutely nothing you can do, apart from going somewhere else.
P.S. I know that cuz I've done that probably hundreds of times. And such clashes in Lineage 2 could last for many, I repeat MANY hours. Even without visible HP bars. And if they are visible - it becomes much easier
Flanker
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
I think part of my goal in A2 is to feed people to mobs, I'm not going to lie and see how effective i can do that and get a lot of loot for free lmao.
@Ludullu_(NiKr) You should join me for that ;o
I'm going to go ranger but we just need more cc and a tank and we should be able to do it pretty effectively. A lot of people might hate us but its the only way people will learn when they hours of progress and we dont get punished for it lmao.
Sign me up too as apparently, this is the only way to explain some people why visible HP bars are a problem.
We forced people to rage quit in L2 (when it was necessary for in-game reasons), despite the fact that there were no HP bars whatsoever. If I come to a farming spot that I want and there is another player AND I CAN SEE HIS HP BAR... oooouf, sooner or later, but you are going somewhere else, mate
Flanker
3
Re: Mega Guilds
Yeah its 1000% possible you guys are right and I am dramatizing the possible effect of this in my mind. Little bit of brain scope creep you could say. I guess I'm mostly just worried about the possible destruction of communities and not being able to explore some game mechanics without a toll or something crazy like that. I guess the immediate solution is to just work with the little guild I'm in and try to push us away from being on a server that would have this problem.
BTW thank you everyone for all the discourse so far has given me much to ponder
BTW thank you everyone for all the discourse so far has given me much to ponder
Re: Game progression
Yes, they have spoken to this many times. There are sets, ways to adjust stats on crafted gear for specific encounters, you will have different buildouts depending on the content expected to encounter that session and a host of things planned when it comes to buildouts and customization. Looking at the wiki is your first step in digesting the various information they have put out as to their plans.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Progression
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Progression
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
I think part of my goal in A2 is to feed people to mobs, I'm not going to lie and see how effective i can do that and get a lot of loot for free lmao.
@Ludullu_(NiKr) You should join me for that ;o
I'm going to go ranger but we just need more cc and a tank and we should be able to do it pretty effectively. A lot of people might hate us but its the only way people will learn when they hours of progress and we dont get punished for it lmao.
@Ludullu_(NiKr) You should join me for that ;o
I'm going to go ranger but we just need more cc and a tank and we should be able to do it pretty effectively. A lot of people might hate us but its the only way people will learn when they hours of progress and we dont get punished for it lmao.
Mag7spy
2