Best Of
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Soent years playing Archeage.
The game had full health displayed.
Never once saw this kind of thing happen. Never even heard of it happening.
I have no reason to assume it would happen in Ashes if they added in full health display.
Saw that a number of times beyond counting in Lineage 2
Health bars were invisible - even that didn't help
Taking into account how similar AoC and L2 in terms of PvP and PK system (basically, AoC took L2's whole system) - I have every reason to assume that with visible health bars, the number of mental breakdowns and booked therapy sessions will skyrocket.
The logic "I haven't seen it happening, so it won't happen" is... you know...
So, in a game with invisible health bars, it happened.
In a game without invisible health bars, it didn't happen.
The logic of " we don't want it, so let's do things the same as the game that had it" is lost on me.
At best, the assumption needs to be that it has no impact at all on this. Realistically, evidentially, it appears to have theninverse effect to what is being claimed.
Entirely dependent on the game's playerbase and the ability/willingness of GMs to step in when griefing like that happens.
Games playerbase, sure. The developers stepping in wasn't something that happened at all in Archeage.
To me, the reason Archeage didn't have this is because there were far better ways to upset rival players. There was no real point in doing it.
Ashes also has far better ways to upset rivals, so I really don't see it happening here.
Noaani
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Soent years playing Archeage.
The game had full health displayed.
Never once saw this kind of thing happen. Never even heard of it happening.
I have no reason to assume it would happen in Ashes if they added in full health display.
Saw that a number of times beyond counting in Lineage 2
Health bars were invisible - even that didn't help
Taking into account how similar AoC and L2 in terms of PvP and PK system (basically, AoC took L2's whole system) - I have every reason to assume that with visible health bars, the number of mental breakdowns and booked therapy sessions will skyrocket.
The logic "I haven't seen it happening, so it won't happen" is... you know...
So, in a game with invisible health bars, it happened.
In a game without invisible health bars, it didn't happen.
The logic of " we don't want it, so let's do things the same as the game that had it" is lost on me.
At best, the assumption needs to be that it has no impact at all on this. Realistically, evidentially, it appears to have theninverse effect to what is being claimed.
Noaani
3
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Okay so we got a response finally, well kinda.
First off, I want to address those arguing against this post and those who have similar arguments:
I think some people who are coming here to argue these points are coming from a wrong angle. The way those people argued the point made it seem how you HAVE to be grouped up whenever you play the game, because this game is made for groups, and only group content matters. That's also why I was stuck arguing those points, that lead nowhere.
That's completely missing the point though, and has made the conversation go backwards.
The argument should be about explaining that players will not have to only do group content 24/7 whenever they're logged in, and how you need filler content that you will do in-between group stuff. You cannot expect the game to only have group content, and you cannot expect to be in a group all the time.
So instead of arguing that, instead just say "You don't have to be in a group 24/7, there is content that's doable solo, here's an example...". (Hey, and some people have done that, which has actually made me change my stance on this issue, but not completely).
We have examples, and we should now discuss why those are or aren't enough.
And onto those examples we go:
@Chaliux @AirborneBerserker
I'm just going to mention that world events and caravans will be group content, that's doable solo. You don't have to join a pre-made group, you can just run around, do the event, assist people around you, while playing alone. When it comes to Caravans specifically, there's a Highwayman system - read about it if you aren't aware of it. You will be rewarded for participating.
It very much is content that's doable solo.
I will agree that some of the 15 pieces of content listed really are just "playstyles", as mentioned.
That would really depend on how the corruption system works, and how punishing it is. It might not be worth to flag up for that. I also don't agree at all that world events are PK bait at all.
I'll again mention that most of this stuff will be done in between, when you can't get a group.
It is still expected that you will get a group at some point, and that's when you will do the group content that the game has to offer, which is also the main content of this game.
Let's take a look at this example:
If I log in in the morning, when there are not a lot of players online, and when maybe my group/guild isn't doing group content (simply due to numbers, or just because it's in the morning, and they don't want to), I will simply go out and do my own thing, because remember, that stuff can also be done in this game.
I'll go gather materials, maybe do some crafting, I'll join some events on the way, maybe I'll run into a caravan, and I might just join that event, I might go out and farm some mobs, whether for certain drops, gold, or whatever. I can also queue for BGs/Arena,
All of that stuff will help me get richer, which in turn makes me stronger.
Then I can maybe log out, I'm going to work, or whatever. When I come back, I can join a group, do some dungeons, maybe contest a world boss, maybe run some caravans, or whatever other group content is available in the game at that time. At certain days you will have huge events like sieges (castle or node).
---
Here's where I'm seeing issues:
- This might not be enough content. Which is why I asked, what do you want to be added? Give an example from other games maybe.
- People are afraid of PKers, and corruption system not discouraging PKing enough (wow would you look at that, somehow we always end up talking about this point). They feel like even if they do solo content, they're at very high risk of getting PKed. It's a valid concern, we just have to see how the system works.
But here's an even bigger issue:
- It seems that the issue people have here is simply with the game's design which is centered around group content, and where group content is the main content.
You would just have to get over it, because that's not going to change. However, that's also why i keep asking, WHAT SOLO CONTENT DO YOU WANT TO BE ADDED? because an answer to this questions will help a lot. If it's something that doesn't clash with group focused content of Ashes, where both can co-exist, then it's not a problem at all, and I don't see why it couldn't be added.
If it is something that's going to take away from the group content, however, then you simply are maybe looking for something that Ashes isn't about.
First off, I want to address those arguing against this post and those who have similar arguments:
I think some people who are coming here to argue these points are coming from a wrong angle. The way those people argued the point made it seem how you HAVE to be grouped up whenever you play the game, because this game is made for groups, and only group content matters. That's also why I was stuck arguing those points, that lead nowhere.
That's completely missing the point though, and has made the conversation go backwards.
The argument should be about explaining that players will not have to only do group content 24/7 whenever they're logged in, and how you need filler content that you will do in-between group stuff. You cannot expect the game to only have group content, and you cannot expect to be in a group all the time.
So instead of arguing that, instead just say "You don't have to be in a group 24/7, there is content that's doable solo, here's an example...". (Hey, and some people have done that, which has actually made me change my stance on this issue, but not completely).
We have examples, and we should now discuss why those are or aren't enough.
And onto those examples we go:
@Chaliux @AirborneBerserker
I'm just going to mention that world events and caravans will be group content, that's doable solo. You don't have to join a pre-made group, you can just run around, do the event, assist people around you, while playing alone. When it comes to Caravans specifically, there's a Highwayman system - read about it if you aren't aware of it. You will be rewarded for participating.
It very much is content that's doable solo.
I will agree that some of the 15 pieces of content listed really are just "playstyles", as mentioned.
AirborneBerserker wrote: »
2 and 9 are just PK bait. People will all gravitate towards these and PKers will realize this and lie in wait.
That would really depend on how the corruption system works, and how punishing it is. It might not be worth to flag up for that. I also don't agree at all that world events are PK bait at all.
I'll again mention that most of this stuff will be done in between, when you can't get a group.
It is still expected that you will get a group at some point, and that's when you will do the group content that the game has to offer, which is also the main content of this game.
Let's take a look at this example:
If I log in in the morning, when there are not a lot of players online, and when maybe my group/guild isn't doing group content (simply due to numbers, or just because it's in the morning, and they don't want to), I will simply go out and do my own thing, because remember, that stuff can also be done in this game.
I'll go gather materials, maybe do some crafting, I'll join some events on the way, maybe I'll run into a caravan, and I might just join that event, I might go out and farm some mobs, whether for certain drops, gold, or whatever. I can also queue for BGs/Arena,
All of that stuff will help me get richer, which in turn makes me stronger.
Then I can maybe log out, I'm going to work, or whatever. When I come back, I can join a group, do some dungeons, maybe contest a world boss, maybe run some caravans, or whatever other group content is available in the game at that time. At certain days you will have huge events like sieges (castle or node).
---
Here's where I'm seeing issues:
- This might not be enough content. Which is why I asked, what do you want to be added? Give an example from other games maybe.
- People are afraid of PKers, and corruption system not discouraging PKing enough (wow would you look at that, somehow we always end up talking about this point). They feel like even if they do solo content, they're at very high risk of getting PKed. It's a valid concern, we just have to see how the system works.
But here's an even bigger issue:
- It seems that the issue people have here is simply with the game's design which is centered around group content, and where group content is the main content.
You would just have to get over it, because that's not going to change. However, that's also why i keep asking, WHAT SOLO CONTENT DO YOU WANT TO BE ADDED? because an answer to this questions will help a lot. If it's something that doesn't clash with group focused content of Ashes, where both can co-exist, then it's not a problem at all, and I don't see why it couldn't be added.
If it is something that's going to take away from the group content, however, then you simply are maybe looking for something that Ashes isn't about.
iccer
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Non-combatant players not showing Hp bars is the most easy solution. No one should even argue against it lmao.
Mag7spy
4
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Sure, exactly this will happen. Low level players will group up with level 50 players.bloodprophet wrote: »As you said new players coming in will have new players coming in to play with.....plus the added benefit of all the other players already there to play with.
May I ask you how many (and which) MMO you've played so far?
Ummmmm
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mentor_program
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
My personal opinion I think this is nothing more than click bait for his video or he is big WoW carebare and doesn't comprehend what an actual pvx mmo is all about but considering his articulated responses I would lean heavily toward the former!
Lmao, yeah, obviously, I spent time writing the main post and reply to long comments to get those 5 extra views. For that statement alone you deserve a PhD in logic.
Secondly, I never ever touched WoW or had it installed on my PC.
Finally, I've played Lineage for 12+ years which is a PvX game with open world PvP.
Literally nothing you wrote even remotely makes any sense or has anything in common with objective reality.
Mic drop
Flanker
3
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
bloodprophet wrote: »I'll bet you guys roll up half a dozen characters and run solo PnP games all by yourself.
Nothing more exciting then playing a game designed as multiplayer alllllllllll by your lil lonesome. And then whining cause you Your scared of the keyboard.
Oh wait no, looking for page 10 on why MMO'S should not exist and everything should be solo player.
Yes because that is what anyone has said at this point.
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
bloodprophet wrote: »AirborneBerserker wrote: »bloodprophet wrote: »Page nine and the answer still seems so obvious.
Find others to play with.
Be sure to tell that to the people that join 6 months after launch.
I won't have to.
As you said new players coming in will have new players coming in to play with.....plus the added benefit of all the other players already there to play with.
So the level 10 players are supposed to group with level 50 players? Good plan.
Re: Loot System Changes
Me,me,me,me,me,me......
That's all this thread is?
A rising tide lifts all ships.
When people on the TEAM become stronger the whole team becomes stronger. Is amazing how self centered some of you are.
Someone on my team got something and I didn't Whaaaaaa!!
Learn to celebrate your friends and team mates victories. Get it next time or maybe the time after.
This is supposed to be a multiplayer game not another single player game pretending to be an MMO.
That's all this thread is?
A rising tide lifts all ships.
When people on the TEAM become stronger the whole team becomes stronger. Is amazing how self centered some of you are.
Someone on my team got something and I didn't Whaaaaaa!!
Learn to celebrate your friends and team mates victories. Get it next time or maybe the time after.
This is supposed to be a multiplayer game not another single player game pretending to be an MMO.
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
There has been a great solution for this situation which is "Only HP bars of purple and red players are visible. HP bars of non-combatants are not, unless they flag".Well, as already stated: The root cause here is called "non-combatant" and "corruption". Missing HP bars that lower serious pvp playing due to just having no idea what's happening with the enemy is just a workaround that get's in discussion afterwards.
I played Lineage 2 that has the same PvP and corruption system and open-world PvP. And that's the game from which Ashes took this system. And I know exactly how this system works and how it can be exploited under these circumstances.If you ever would have played pvp like high rated Arena PvP in WoW or sPvP (same gear for everybody) in GW2 you perhaps would have an idea.
Ganking situation is the last thing I fear. In fact, it's not even in my personal interest to hide HP bars as I would be among those who directly benefits from that. Yet I would still prefer them removed, because the game's overall health is much more important for me than my personal preferences.You fear the ganking situation? If you are pvp-flagged, that's your decision. It's not the fault of somebody else. If you are forced to get into pvp and are forced to play pvp, that's a completely different story and even then, health bars are crucial because it just shouldnt "work fine" it should make sense and be serious. It's also a huge topic about being responsive, getting feedback from what you are doing. If there is no feedback, you just randomly do what you feel, you are not reacting precisely, you are not calling targets due to correct decision, but only because someone is calling a random target for a lucky kill try. It's funny, perhaps, but nothing more.
And if you think that PvP with no health bars turns into random chaos, mate, I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Flanker
2