Best Of
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Only as long as the game offers that choice. There is no choice to solo content without pvp risk for instance. No choice at all.bloodprophet wrote: »They do have a choice.Not possible at every moment of playing during the next 10 years. Also for you that's not possible, if you state this, you are a liar.Find others to play with or go do solo stuff.Me personally? Of course, I'm also grouping up with different "randoms". That's just normal. But I'm not doing this every day and every time I play, because there are situations or circumstances where group play is not desired or needed. If my time invested is rewarded meaningful, I also play alone. And I see no single reason why I shouldnt do this, as long as I keep pace with my character so I'm not wasting my time, because character progression is, beside good storytelling/questing, a major reason why I'm playing a game where I'm acting within my role and class - MMO(RPG).When you are in a guild do you only play with people in your guild? Or do you find groups of people not in your guild to do stuff with when your guildies are not available and you want to go do group stuff?It's not, as long as the game provides good rewards, good progression and choices for solo gameplay without getting harmed from other players that destroy this progression and rewards.Still not understanding why this is so challenging.
Super funny.
It is always a choice. If you chose to run around in a group the pvp aspect is still there.
If you chose to run around solo the pvp aspect is still there.
I just don't expect to get "meaningful" anything with out the risk and effort to get it.
Just like the loot thread. Me,me,me...
The last paragraph is the same for everyone entering the arena of Ashes of Creation.
Solo and Uber guild a like
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Sure, exactly this will happen. Low level players will group up with level 50 players.bloodprophet wrote: »As you said new players coming in will have new players coming in to play with.....plus the added benefit of all the other players already there to play with.
May I ask you how many (and which) MMO you've played so far?
I"ve done this in mmorpgs for ages to help them level, though i think I'm starting to understand why you have a hard time finding groups.
Mag7spy
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
I didn't say that, iccer said that, you misquoted. I pretty much agree with it though. Because what is content and what is meaningful is somewhat subjective. So he can definitely argue, anyone can. Not looking to litigate a supreme court case on what is content, what is meaningful, or even what a solo player is.
But I was responding to this:
Examples of plenty to do. I have about 0 desire to debate what is and what isn't a "content type." Because I've been here long enough and have seen how ridiculous those conversations get. Everyone has a different definition. But examples of "plenty to do" was a layup.
Most of the very bloated points (just to artificially reach 15... bit ridiculous) are mainly gap fillers, that's a more suitable wording.
It seems because we're on completely different pages than each other, most of both of our posts are moot in regards to each other, so no need to respond to most of yours. But in the context of what I was writing about, "plenty to do," I didn't bloat anything. If anything, I condensed, adding multiple entries to a single bullet point. I could have kept going too, past 15.
I'll leave it to you and whoever to argue about what is meaningful content. I am an mmorpg player with a definite pvp leaning focus. My definition of what is content and what is meaningful is going to be wildly different than yours.
That said though, my greatest accomplishments, my most exhilarating moments, pound for pound the most fun I've ever had in an mmo, have all come playing solo. This coming from someone who has been in some very top tier guilds, in some cases the best pvpers/pvers on a server by miles.
And nevertheless I've had the most fun solo. There's just something about it being just you, left to your own wits, no one in the background blabbing about what color dog they saw today. No one to turn to, no one to run to, success or failure is all on you. I love it. Group play is great, a very close second in many cases, and not something I'd ever forsake. But solo play is a drug. And if you do it long enough, with an aim to get better at it, you get very good at it. So some of your rebuttals about pvp and if theres 8 players attacking you while you're fishing, or solo pking not being worth it unless it's only against other solos. I disagree with those premises. That's the point, the challenge. That's what makes it fun, for me. Whether pve or pvp, being solo, being outnumbered, outgunned, and winning anyway. Or not.
All that to say, I am a solo player. I'm both really, group and solo. But I may be more of a solo player than group. I think your issues are with the game itself. I might agree with you on some of it, or at the very least sympathize with you on it. But I'm not really worried about there not being plenty to do as a solo. My advice to other solo players would be to embrace your solo playstyle, be very good at it, use it for it's full worth when you either feel like soloing, or are forced to solo because none of your friends are on. But get a group/guild of some sort going too. In Ashes it will be more important than the average mmo. It is purposefully designed that way.
Okeydoke
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Nobody said be in a group 24/7 except those that want a single player game
There is stuff to do solo but all the good stuff requires a group as it should be.
If you can't find meaningful content that is a you problem not an Intrepid problem.
Stated from the start to be a Multiplayer game.
Do you play stuff like Monopoly by yourself as?
You know for those times you want to play monopoly but your friend is busy.
There is stuff to do solo but all the good stuff requires a group as it should be.
If you can't find meaningful content that is a you problem not an Intrepid problem.
Stated from the start to be a Multiplayer game.
Do you play stuff like Monopoly by yourself as?
You know for those times you want to play monopoly but your friend is busy.
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
That is just an unsubsantiated fear.In this game (by design and systems) you will lack meaningful, rewarding solo content and you are wasting your time due to getting no choice at which time you want to play solo content, because you can be attacked at every time from other groups and not only other solo players. It's the combination of both here. And just adding to an existing group running around that "accept" you (think about a caravan and you pass their way) will not happen, you show up, you are dead. It's only wasting your time, there will be no progress at all.
There is nothing in the design that prevents Soloers from engaging in meaningful and rewarding content.
You do not have to join a group to participate in Caravan attack/defense or Node Sieges or Node Wars. There's even stuff in Dungeons that players can Solo.
Ashes is high Risk for PvP. But, Groups are not going to want to gain Corruption and raise their PK Scores to kill Soloers for no compelling reason.
If you try to attack a Caravan Solo, when no other Attackers are around, you will probably be dead.
Better to join the Defense of the Caravan, if there are no other Attackers.
If you choose Defense for the Caravan, it will be impossible for the other players on Defense to kill you.
That describes someone who is dead; not unemployed.24/7 always in group means thats a guild of unemployed guys or what do you want to tell me?
That really makes no sense.I never was in guilds with unemployed people, by contrast, in guilds, were real life is prior and therefore even with 100 members there are situations were you log in and it's not suitable and not desired to play as group, because solo play is preferred. And that's not even an issue, as long as it is intended and desired and suits to the current situation, day, playing time, goal to achieve this evening.
A player can spend most of their time playing in Groups even when they are not playing with Guild members.
A player can also be in a Guild and spend most of their time Soloing.
Obviously, people will Solo sometimes.
Ashes allows for all of that.
Why is that a question??The big question is: Why should you always only, at every second being online, play in groups? Playing massive multiplayer does not mean to play together every second of the game for 10 years, but it states, that you see, interact, play together, along side (or against) with/other players. With our without a group, with our without guild members being online. You are fishing for 1h. Why the hell should this done with a 8 man group? You log in and there are already two groups active, so you cannot join a group this evening, and this situation just happens. So you play solo this evening - what's the problem? There shouldn't be a problem as long as the game offers meaningful, rewarding choices that support this solo situations and are not wasting your time because other groups are just pvp-ing you down every second of your playtime.
Solo if you want to Solo.
If you only have an hour to play, you might not have time to find and form a group and complete a Quest or run a Dungeon - probably better to Solo. Ashes allows players to do that.
There is no problem with Soloing for hours if that's what you want to do. If you like to Group, but your Guildies are busy and you have the time... go to a Tavern or check out some local Freeholds and/or Open World Housing. Look for a Caravan raid. If you're in a Guild, you can probably find a mini-Castle Siege/Caravan.
If your Guild owns a Castle, there will be Siege prep.
Ashes has high Risk for PvP. Sure, maybe if you're Soloing a Dungeon other groups might kill all rivals on sight, but... seems unlikely a Group will bother with PKing a Solo player if you're just doing Solo stuff - because a Soloer really won't be able to compete with them for loot.
Dygz
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Soent years playing Archeage.
The game had full health displayed.
Never once saw this kind of thing happen. Never even heard of it happening.
I have no reason to assume it would happen in Ashes if they added in full health display.
Saw that a number of times beyond counting in Lineage 2
Health bars were invisible - even that didn't help
Taking into account how similar AoC and L2 in terms of PvP and PK system (basically, AoC took L2's whole system) - I have every reason to assume that with visible health bars, the number of mental breakdowns and booked therapy sessions will skyrocket.
The logic "I haven't seen it happening, so it won't happen" is... you know...
So, in a game with invisible health bars, it happened.
In a game without invisible health bars, it didn't happen.
The logic of " we don't want it, so let's do things the same as the game that had it" is lost on me.
At best, the assumption needs to be that it has no impact at all on this. Realistically, evidentially, it appears to have theninverse effect to what is being claimed.
Entirely dependent on the game's playerbase and the ability/willingness of GMs to step in when griefing like that happens.
Games playerbase, sure. The developers stepping in wasn't something that happened at all in Archeage.
To me, the reason Archeage didn't have this is because there were far better ways to upset rival players. There was no real point in doing it.
Ashes also has far better ways to upset rivals, so I really don't see it happening here.
Noaani
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Soent years playing Archeage.
The game had full health displayed.
Never once saw this kind of thing happen. Never even heard of it happening.
I have no reason to assume it would happen in Ashes if they added in full health display.
Saw that a number of times beyond counting in Lineage 2
Health bars were invisible - even that didn't help
Taking into account how similar AoC and L2 in terms of PvP and PK system (basically, AoC took L2's whole system) - I have every reason to assume that with visible health bars, the number of mental breakdowns and booked therapy sessions will skyrocket.
The logic "I haven't seen it happening, so it won't happen" is... you know...
So, in a game with invisible health bars, it happened.
In a game without invisible health bars, it didn't happen.
The logic of " we don't want it, so let's do things the same as the game that had it" is lost on me.
At best, the assumption needs to be that it has no impact at all on this. Realistically, evidentially, it appears to have theninverse effect to what is being claimed.
Noaani
3
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Okay so we got a response finally, well kinda.
First off, I want to address those arguing against this post and those who have similar arguments:
I think some people who are coming here to argue these points are coming from a wrong angle. The way those people argued the point made it seem how you HAVE to be grouped up whenever you play the game, because this game is made for groups, and only group content matters. That's also why I was stuck arguing those points, that lead nowhere.
That's completely missing the point though, and has made the conversation go backwards.
The argument should be about explaining that players will not have to only do group content 24/7 whenever they're logged in, and how you need filler content that you will do in-between group stuff. You cannot expect the game to only have group content, and you cannot expect to be in a group all the time.
So instead of arguing that, instead just say "You don't have to be in a group 24/7, there is content that's doable solo, here's an example...". (Hey, and some people have done that, which has actually made me change my stance on this issue, but not completely).
We have examples, and we should now discuss why those are or aren't enough.
And onto those examples we go:
@Chaliux @AirborneBerserker
I'm just going to mention that world events and caravans will be group content, that's doable solo. You don't have to join a pre-made group, you can just run around, do the event, assist people around you, while playing alone. When it comes to Caravans specifically, there's a Highwayman system - read about it if you aren't aware of it. You will be rewarded for participating.
It very much is content that's doable solo.
I will agree that some of the 15 pieces of content listed really are just "playstyles", as mentioned.
That would really depend on how the corruption system works, and how punishing it is. It might not be worth to flag up for that. I also don't agree at all that world events are PK bait at all.
I'll again mention that most of this stuff will be done in between, when you can't get a group.
It is still expected that you will get a group at some point, and that's when you will do the group content that the game has to offer, which is also the main content of this game.
Let's take a look at this example:
If I log in in the morning, when there are not a lot of players online, and when maybe my group/guild isn't doing group content (simply due to numbers, or just because it's in the morning, and they don't want to), I will simply go out and do my own thing, because remember, that stuff can also be done in this game.
I'll go gather materials, maybe do some crafting, I'll join some events on the way, maybe I'll run into a caravan, and I might just join that event, I might go out and farm some mobs, whether for certain drops, gold, or whatever. I can also queue for BGs/Arena,
All of that stuff will help me get richer, which in turn makes me stronger.
Then I can maybe log out, I'm going to work, or whatever. When I come back, I can join a group, do some dungeons, maybe contest a world boss, maybe run some caravans, or whatever other group content is available in the game at that time. At certain days you will have huge events like sieges (castle or node).
---
Here's where I'm seeing issues:
- This might not be enough content. Which is why I asked, what do you want to be added? Give an example from other games maybe.
- People are afraid of PKers, and corruption system not discouraging PKing enough (wow would you look at that, somehow we always end up talking about this point). They feel like even if they do solo content, they're at very high risk of getting PKed. It's a valid concern, we just have to see how the system works.
But here's an even bigger issue:
- It seems that the issue people have here is simply with the game's design which is centered around group content, and where group content is the main content.
You would just have to get over it, because that's not going to change. However, that's also why i keep asking, WHAT SOLO CONTENT DO YOU WANT TO BE ADDED? because an answer to this questions will help a lot. If it's something that doesn't clash with group focused content of Ashes, where both can co-exist, then it's not a problem at all, and I don't see why it couldn't be added.
If it is something that's going to take away from the group content, however, then you simply are maybe looking for something that Ashes isn't about.
First off, I want to address those arguing against this post and those who have similar arguments:
I think some people who are coming here to argue these points are coming from a wrong angle. The way those people argued the point made it seem how you HAVE to be grouped up whenever you play the game, because this game is made for groups, and only group content matters. That's also why I was stuck arguing those points, that lead nowhere.
That's completely missing the point though, and has made the conversation go backwards.
The argument should be about explaining that players will not have to only do group content 24/7 whenever they're logged in, and how you need filler content that you will do in-between group stuff. You cannot expect the game to only have group content, and you cannot expect to be in a group all the time.
So instead of arguing that, instead just say "You don't have to be in a group 24/7, there is content that's doable solo, here's an example...". (Hey, and some people have done that, which has actually made me change my stance on this issue, but not completely).
We have examples, and we should now discuss why those are or aren't enough.
And onto those examples we go:
@Chaliux @AirborneBerserker
I'm just going to mention that world events and caravans will be group content, that's doable solo. You don't have to join a pre-made group, you can just run around, do the event, assist people around you, while playing alone. When it comes to Caravans specifically, there's a Highwayman system - read about it if you aren't aware of it. You will be rewarded for participating.
It very much is content that's doable solo.
I will agree that some of the 15 pieces of content listed really are just "playstyles", as mentioned.
AirborneBerserker wrote: »
2 and 9 are just PK bait. People will all gravitate towards these and PKers will realize this and lie in wait.
That would really depend on how the corruption system works, and how punishing it is. It might not be worth to flag up for that. I also don't agree at all that world events are PK bait at all.
I'll again mention that most of this stuff will be done in between, when you can't get a group.
It is still expected that you will get a group at some point, and that's when you will do the group content that the game has to offer, which is also the main content of this game.
Let's take a look at this example:
If I log in in the morning, when there are not a lot of players online, and when maybe my group/guild isn't doing group content (simply due to numbers, or just because it's in the morning, and they don't want to), I will simply go out and do my own thing, because remember, that stuff can also be done in this game.
I'll go gather materials, maybe do some crafting, I'll join some events on the way, maybe I'll run into a caravan, and I might just join that event, I might go out and farm some mobs, whether for certain drops, gold, or whatever. I can also queue for BGs/Arena,
All of that stuff will help me get richer, which in turn makes me stronger.
Then I can maybe log out, I'm going to work, or whatever. When I come back, I can join a group, do some dungeons, maybe contest a world boss, maybe run some caravans, or whatever other group content is available in the game at that time. At certain days you will have huge events like sieges (castle or node).
---
Here's where I'm seeing issues:
- This might not be enough content. Which is why I asked, what do you want to be added? Give an example from other games maybe.
- People are afraid of PKers, and corruption system not discouraging PKing enough (wow would you look at that, somehow we always end up talking about this point). They feel like even if they do solo content, they're at very high risk of getting PKed. It's a valid concern, we just have to see how the system works.
But here's an even bigger issue:
- It seems that the issue people have here is simply with the game's design which is centered around group content, and where group content is the main content.
You would just have to get over it, because that's not going to change. However, that's also why i keep asking, WHAT SOLO CONTENT DO YOU WANT TO BE ADDED? because an answer to this questions will help a lot. If it's something that doesn't clash with group focused content of Ashes, where both can co-exist, then it's not a problem at all, and I don't see why it couldn't be added.
If it is something that's going to take away from the group content, however, then you simply are maybe looking for something that Ashes isn't about.
iccer
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Non-combatant players not showing Hp bars is the most easy solution. No one should even argue against it lmao.
Mag7spy
4
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Sure, exactly this will happen. Low level players will group up with level 50 players.bloodprophet wrote: »As you said new players coming in will have new players coming in to play with.....plus the added benefit of all the other players already there to play with.
May I ask you how many (and which) MMO you've played so far?
Ummmmm
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mentor_program