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Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
My personal opinion I think this is nothing more than click bait for his video or he is big WoW carebare and doesn't comprehend what an actual pvx mmo is all about but considering his articulated responses I would lean heavily toward the former!
Lmao, yeah, obviously, I spent time writing the main post and reply to long comments to get those 5 extra views. For that statement alone you deserve a PhD in logic.
Secondly, I never ever touched WoW or had it installed on my PC.
Finally, I've played Lineage for 12+ years which is a PvX game with open world PvP.
Literally nothing you wrote even remotely makes any sense or has anything in common with objective reality.
Mic drop
You will find none of that logic stuff here. It's mostly wild reactionary posts based on what feeling certain words invoke.
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
]I am responsible for what I say. I can't be responsible for 10 possible interpretations of my words or my words being twisted, whether it is done intentionally or unintentionally.
you cant have it both ways ... ...
you never addressed anything i said ... you just deflected ... you never even tried to clarify what i did get wrong ... so i have to assume ...
and my understanding of the "words you are responsible" for is ... that your whole discussion makes no sense since your premise is invalid .... the foundation you have set this discussion up makes no sense ... and you admitted it ... in my opinion that is a literal strawman ... bc you make a statement you know makes no sense just for the sake of getting attention to your channel .... at least thats what i see here lol
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
However it strikes you, you are free to have that impression. Subjective opinions and perception may vary, yet they are not objective facts. It has nothing to do with the actual point of this convesation.Yeah, they are asking for feedback but for some reason you are here and clearly stated that you doubt that they are able to make their own game content matter, which strikes as such fundamentally distrustful that I won't just move on to the next point.
It has NOTHING to with the conversation that you think that Intrepid is so bad at game designing that the leveling pace will make the majority of the content skipable? In a conversation about meaningful content?
Could you explain why the presumed inability to make meaningful content does not matter in a conversation where you worry about content being meaningful (by being not skippable)?
It is a natural cause of events that will inevitably happen one way or another. Metaphorically saying, it's like jumping down from the cliff and then blaming the gravity because you broke your leg. It makes no sense as gravity always works the same way. Same as a significant percentage of people who will look for tips and tricks on YouTube. It happened with any other popular MMO and if you think it's not gonna be the case with Ashes, well, think again.And since we are focusing on that core doubt now: If that is an issue - why is following a guide to skip actual engagement with the game and getting good at is not an issue?
Never doubted that, my point from the very beginning has been that there is just no reason to cater to people who - metaphorically - jump down cliffs. Therefore these people are entirely irrelevant when talking about whether leveling pace should be changed.
I'd make a joke here but I don't think it would be appropriate. You should look up what tribalism and confirmation bias is
Did you find the box with the buzzwords? A joke would have been more fun.
But I get that this might not seem all that civil anymore, sorry about that.
Do you at least get - not necessarily share - where Dygz and I are coming from?
That we see very clear signs that leveling speed is not a dial that shows any necessity for adjustment and the points why we don't agree?
Kilion
1
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
Corruption was not functional for A1.That particular one might be difficult to test throughout Alpha and Beta phases. IIRC during Alpha 1 they even turned off PvP because people were acting like people - fighting everyone left and right.
I assume that we might see something similar during the upcoming Alpha 2, because it's Alpha with wipes and people don't really care about death penalties, losing gear because of going corrupt etc.
It has to be functional before the Betas.
You don't understand how XP is distributed among the various progression paths.Point out what is that exactly that I don't understand.
Nor do you understand the relationships of the various progression paths.
Nor do you understand the plans for introducing updates.
Nor do you understand the relationships between the rise and fall of Nodes and the availability or scarcity of new content.
Dygz
1
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
I don't see the leveling speed they talked about as an issue. It's on par with MMOs from the past. SWG, EQ2 and WoW (2004ish) all took roughly that number of hours to get to cap and if felt fine.
I just did this recently in FFXIV and after 200 to 300 hours you are ready for leveling to end. Also as time goes on level caps go up so eventually you will have a 300, 400 or 500 hour leveling hill to climb.
You can obiously build into the game a quality leveling experience and hope people enjoy the ride, but at some point you just want to be at the same position as everyone else. When the hours get into the multiple hundreds, you're mentally at that point.
I just did this recently in FFXIV and after 200 to 300 hours you are ready for leveling to end. Also as time goes on level caps go up so eventually you will have a 300, 400 or 500 hour leveling hill to climb.
You can obiously build into the game a quality leveling experience and hope people enjoy the ride, but at some point you just want to be at the same position as everyone else. When the hours get into the multiple hundreds, you're mentally at that point.
Diamaht
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
I agree on it being a hard sell. However, the game's health should be a priority, shouldn't it?L2 vets want HP to be hidden completely. That will be a hard sell to the majority of the MMO community I think.Wrong, it has nothing to do with that. That's even funny, because I never ever done such thing and neither did anyone I played with.It will be countered with something similar to: It's a terrible way to play a video game. It incentivizes memorizing spread sheets to gain the advantage over an opponent, instead of having information you can use right in front of you. No lifers will thrive since they've memorized enough info.I like this subtle wordplay. It's not a justification, it's a way to avoid a potentially serious issue that will inevitably affect players. Not even bringing the softness of the modern MMO players to this.The next part of the thread focuses on one possible grief method due to corruption as a justification for hiding info.Wrong. There was a great solution that solves the problem and doesn't affect PvP. Which is making HP bars of non-combatants invisible that becomes visible the moment when player flags.It will then be asked if it's possible to find another solution to this singular issue, and it will be explained that such a thing is simply impossible and information must be hidden at all costs.
I swear, the quality of discussions, the logic behind the arguments and the number of manipulation attempts... it is just terrible.
Are you able to take in an arguement not aligned with yours without taking it personally?
I'm actually fine with bars being hidden outside of combat, with the caveat that enough info IS there so I can look at a player and have some idea of strength. Once combat starts, I want information. No guessing, no dependence on no lifeing.
Diamaht
4
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
Doomposting self-plug over a level system that already takes longer than any MMO currently on the market
Calm down there
Edit: Yeah sure it's not a self-plug. Sure aren't trying to bloat the viewcount here.
Calm down there
Edit: Yeah sure it's not a self-plug. Sure aren't trying to bloat the viewcount here.
I understand your point and that is the reason why I addressed it in the video.
Caeryl
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
I think this is the 700th time we've discussed this. Here's a summary of the next 64 pages.
L2 vets want HP to be hidden completely. That will be a hard sell to the majority of the MMO community I think.
It will be countered with something similar to: It's a terrible way to play a video game. It incentivizes memorizing spread sheets to gain the advantage over an opponent, instead of having information you can use right in front of you. No lifers will thrive since they've memorized enough info.
The next part of the thread focuses on one possible grief method due to corruption as a justification for hiding info. It will then be asked if it's possible to find another solution to this singular issue, and it will be explained that such a thing is simply impossible and information must be hidden at all costs.
Pages 70 or 80 and beyond are hard to predict so I can't help there.
L2 vets want HP to be hidden completely. That will be a hard sell to the majority of the MMO community I think.
It will be countered with something similar to: It's a terrible way to play a video game. It incentivizes memorizing spread sheets to gain the advantage over an opponent, instead of having information you can use right in front of you. No lifers will thrive since they've memorized enough info.
The next part of the thread focuses on one possible grief method due to corruption as a justification for hiding info. It will then be asked if it's possible to find another solution to this singular issue, and it will be explained that such a thing is simply impossible and information must be hidden at all costs.
Pages 70 or 80 and beyond are hard to predict so I can't help there.
Diamaht
4
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
@Flanker
I mean... you can look for tips and tricks for static games.
That won't be particulalry helpful in a dynamic game like Ashes.
Especially when different servers/Realms will have different content.
The stuff you have concerns about fit other MMORPGs that do not conform to the Ashes game design.
I mean... you can look for tips and tricks for static games.
That won't be particulalry helpful in a dynamic game like Ashes.
Especially when different servers/Realms will have different content.
The stuff you have concerns about fit other MMORPGs that do not conform to the Ashes game design.
Dygz
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Not quoting walls of text.Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »L2
I decided to not reply to that uhm... community member. It is wrong on levels beyond counting and seems pointless at this point, forgive my tautology. Funnily enough, he compares arena fight with mass PvP where hundreds of players involved. Yet in L2 Olympiad (which is arena basically), you could also see your opponent's health. Because IT IS ARENA, not OPEN WORLD PVP.
100%. Simple and elegant solution that satisfies all sides.Non-combatant players not showing Hp bars is the most easy solution. No one should even argue against it lmao.
You are wrong on this, my friend. Where there is scarcity of resources, mobs or best farming spots, there is always a room for in-game conflicts. Nothing about it is "circumvent the intended mechanic" and very often it has nothing to do with griefing.So, circumventing the intended mechanic to avoid consequences of griefing a player that clearly intended to share the space with you.
Yeah, that's an issue that rises from a high amount of toxic players in the open world PvP, not an issue of having information.
I've seen that happening and did that more times than I can count in L2, while contesting the best farming spots that are limited. We would do all kind of dirty tricks, PKing, bringing trains of mobs with AoE attacks that kill the whole group, luring the mobs from the location away, anything you can imagine. And there was nothing toxic about it and it was not intended as griefing, because it simply wasn't personal. It didn't matter who came to our spot, you, Queen of Denmark or a construction worker from Minneapolis - we were protecting our spot against any intruders. That's an element of competition, whether you like it or not. And you will see it in Ashes of Creation as well.
Flanker
1