Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Best Of
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
It's all just boobs and us L2 players are sliiiiding in between themAyeveegaming1 wrote: »Oh man. I feel like maybe a flow chart would work to show each other what you are talking about. As someone who leaves the forums for a bit and comes back to try to figure out what the hell you guys are talking about, it's not an easy read. White board this stuff and make a flow chart, then you can see the exact issue you guys are debating about instead of 8 pages of wall text/quotes/theories.....
Ludullu
4
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Yup, that's one of the reasons why such discussions rarely lead to something constructive. People should rather discuss it in AoC discord voice chats as in that case it could be much more meaningfulAyeveegaming1 wrote: »Oh man. I feel like maybe a flow chart would work to show each other what you are talking about. As someone who leaves the forums for a bit and comes back to try to figure out what the hell you guys are talking about, it's not an easy read. White board this stuff and make a flow chart, then you can see the exact issue you guys are debating about instead of 8 pages of wall text/quotes/theories.....
Flanker
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Oh man. I feel like maybe a flow chart would work to show each other what you are talking about. As someone who leaves the forums for a bit and comes back to try to figure out what the hell you guys are talking about, it's not an easy read. White board this stuff and make a flow chart, then you can see the exact issue you guys are debating about instead of 8 pages of wall text/quotes/theories.....
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
And yeah, btw, sorry if I sound somewhat harsh. I mean no offence.1
I would actually be interested to talk to you about this, but not on the forum as these long messages take a lot of time. If you wanna discuss it in VC on discord, drop me a line, it would be an interesting conversation
Flanker
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
I would rather suggest to stop at this point.And yeah, btw, sorry if I sound somewhat harsh. I mean no offence.1
I would actually be interested to talk to you about this, but not on the forum as these long messages take a lot of time. If you wanna discuss it in VC on discord, drop me a line, it would be an interesting conversation
Form "all playertypes" intrepid wants to attract, we are just completely different. I'm fine with that, really.
I'm (who the fuck is Chaliux ) dont want and can to change anything. But I dislike it absolutely, it's a bad design philosophy for a healthy, mature and non-toxic game and community - and that's what I like, having non-toxic funny gameplay with or against (by intention/choice) others in a fair and balanced way.
- I like the art style/graphics of Ashes.
- I like the races and the classes and the class system.
- I like the available weapons and the weapon skill tress (was already cool in New World).
- I like having some skills in my action bar (not only 5 or so), because acting/reacting with suitable shortcuts is fun gameplay and challenging.
- I like, in general, 3rd person RPGs with high-fantasy setting.
- I like the combat design so far (dodgeing, dashing, action-combat, but also targeting).
- I like mechanics like buffs, debuffs and all this stuff needed in a challenging MMO.
- I like challenging pve content. I like holy trinity as concept for pve content (like dungeons).
- I really appreciate fair and mature pvp (open world, instanced - both). I've played this for decades. I've played this on high rankings in WoW arena and rated battlegrounds as well as in structured PvP (sPvP) in Guild Wars.
- I like systems in which I can do pvp by intention and my choice (sieges, caravans for instance).
- I like good PvE content.
- I like gathering and crafting.
- I like the professions.
- I (quite) like the economy design aroung auction houses and player stalls
- I guess I like the gearing (also things like set bonuses) (future will show, depends on reward/loot and time needed for crafting good gear)
- I like having mounts.
- I like doing group content in pve and pvp.
- I like doing solo-content if rewarding and valuable (if available, because I will not always be in a group or due to only haveing time for 1-2 hours group-play isnt the best decision, it's more something for the weekends due to real life obligations for me).
- I dont care about housing/freeholds at all. Never did in any MMO. Thats probably the only content I will just skip (freeholds will anyway not be reachable for me as PvX-time-casual).
- I'm not quite convinced about rewards in terms of solo-content -> we will see in the future.
- I dislike the non-combatant nonsense.
So, in total, I see Ashes as suitable game for me. Still. All the above things were promised, all of those things attracted me years ago to watch the game (just my registration is late, not my interest - I'm in MMO bracket since 20y+, as mentioned)
My main concern and dislike is that a non-combatant can be attacked and killed and that I cannot control this by my own but other players get control over this and thus me. This I dislike and always will.
That's why I will provide all my feedback and experience all over to that, because you are right and I told you several times the same, this system will never change here, but then I want to have the hardest possible punishment for trolls. And as so many things in Ashes are cool so I will never surrender to fight for this against all other users, players and Stevens of this world, because I'm convinced that this entire decision is bad and will cause lots of unnecessary trouble. So even during playing the game I will still remain to my opinion, that this is a bad design I dislike and I personally will never attack harmless other players but I will do pvp, a lot of pvp, and for my that is no contradiction at all.
Last question:
Would you say I'm watching the wrong game with my points mentioned above? Really?
Only because I dont like to be ganked/griefed/harassed by some troll childs? This should stop me from playing this cool game? Because of childisch cowards?
Chaliux
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Flagging itself leads to a certain risk - your name is now purple and random 3rd party can attack you and kill you.The risk is only on the side of the player that doesnt want to be attacked but can be attacked.
In a game with open world PvP it's impossible for non-combatants to not be attacked. Otherwise, it's not a game with open-world PvP.As long as a non-combatant can be attacked without his will and those attacks have no consequence for the attacker there is no risk for this troublemaker, so that's completely unbalanced.
Point out which one of my arguments are hypocritical and provide explanation, instead of making random broad accusations.Moreover: It's risk and reward. Don't take this "slogan" just with one of both arguements just that it suits your hypocritical arguments, that's no base for a meaningful discussion.
There is none and there shouldn't be any as that player didn't do anything to achieve a reward. Reward must require actions to be done. This is not a game with "participation trophy" mindset and existing in the world doesn't give any rewards.What's the reward for the non-combatant player being attacked and killed? Tell me.
If you come to a game with open world PvP and demand making it 100% safe for you, you've come to the wrong place. I don't even mention that majority of PvP content tied to opt-in events and systems.You know why he is non-combatant, right? Because of no attacks and pvp fights - he just dont want to play pvp.
How well did it work in New World lol? It didn't at all.Otherwise he is a combatant by his decision. The game should encourage this by allowing players to actively pvp-flag themselves.
Here is the definition of open world PvP for you: Combat can occur between players in a non-instanced fashion anywhere in the game world where permitted by the server ruleset.
It's player's choice not to fight back IN A GAME WITH OPEN WORLD PVP. If you don't want to fight or use any other way to turn the situation in your favor (such as diplomacy; making an agreement; asking your friends/guild to help etc.), then accept the consequences of your actions.Competion takes place only between two combatants - both have a goald, one will win, one will lose. That's the definition of competion.
Everything else is no competion, because only one side wants to be competetive. And this is the special scenario and situation we are talking about all the time. Nobody is talking about two players attacking and fighting each other by intention - that's fine, that's ok, that's fair and real pvp. Everything else is inbalanced and unfair pvp were only one side, the harassing attacker or murder, is entertained.
Somehow you completely miss a point that "Kevin" turns red, now he can drop his gear, his stats are progressively dampening, any other player can kill him without any consequences and bounty hunters can see him on them. He risked going PK for whatever reason and now faces the consequences of suffering 4x death penalty, losing his gear and potentially ending up on someone KOS list or even the entire guild that "Jason" belongs to.Jason, the highsword, is gathering fish at a lake. Doing non-combatant, casual stuff for his node. So the really really bad things in virtual life, hm? He is talking to his friends in Discord and is doing fishing.
Suddenly Kevin, the rogue assassin, is showing up. Sneaking around Jason waiting for his moment. Bam, dagger-strike in the back. Fishing is interrupted for Jason, because he got attacked. Looking around seeing Kevin, jumping around with his space key and doing funny emotes to Jason. Jason turns around and starts fishing again, still non-combatant. Kevin is meanwhile a combatant and ready to strike again. Stealthmode, second attack. Rinse and repeat.
So, you are Kevin here. I'm Jason. What's my reward? Whats the meaningful "pvp" here? Whats a serious, professional, mature, balanced and reasonable pvp skrimish here?
Jason's reward is still the fish he caught. Leaving safe area carries certain risks and it was an unlucky chain of events. Instead of whining and having a mental breakdown, Jason can go to another spot or wait till Kevin leaves or gets killed.
Never said such thing. And I provided a definition of open world PvP above. That's a straight lie, you are twisting my words. Ganking or griefing is like 1-2-3% of the overall playtime, yet people get so hurt mentally due to negativity bias (look it up).YOU define open world pvp as ganking and griefing other players that dont want to be attacked.
quote="Chaliux;c-471544"]Those toxic approaches must be killed from the developers - scotched from intrepid directly[/quote]
According to whom? People who would, metaphorically, come to Rust PvP server and complain that they got killed or they base was raided? Good luck with that
What I understand is that most likely it's either your first PvX game or you had bad experience it the past or the anxiety this topic brings you is so serious, that you attempt to make Intrepid basically change one of the core elements of Risk vs Reward. Simple as that. If you want a game where you are safe - by all means, go for it. It's funny how you are so hyperfocused on this while having 0 problems with caravan system, for example, where ANYONE can kill you with no consequences and taking your loot. You want that to be removed from the game either, huh?If you don't understand this, for me you are wrong in a solid, mature and good pvp MMO, not me.
Because it is an element of Risk vs Reward concept that worked relatively well in another game.But it's not wanted that this happens, otherwise why should there even be corruption?
Oh yeah, once again you forget to mention the consequences of going corrupt. How convenient.And this increases the toxic gameplay for clown and trolls, because they can do it without being punished.
I offered a solution to reduce the chance of griefing, an obvious one that will work 100%. Not you complain about open world PvP. If that's a deal-breaker, I wish you luck in finding a game that meets your preferences. This whole debate is basically you attemting to change the game the way it fits your preferences and desperately attempting to rationalize it somehow. Pretty obvious at this pointNo, an entire MMO and system is not collapsing because of this, it ist just fair and focussed on the choice of the players, that can play both, pvp and/or pvp.
And follow-up workarounds and features can still be in place for special situations like corpse ganking or whatever, because even for combatants that can potentially be an issue, if a combatant permanently gets ganked at his corpse (due to respawning at closest respawn point and that will be known/found out soon from toxic players).
If you talk about toggleable PvP - once again, Ashes will no longer be an open world PvP game.No, if players can activley decide to flag themselv pvp, then they run out into the wildernes and the are pvp-flagged all the time. Like thousands of others, because it's a pvp game and there will be A LOT of them. All those players can do open pvp 24/7. You are just wrong, that's no duel mechanic.
Oh, boy, looks we're getting emotional. Attacker has risks, attacker has reward.So, it's again and ONLY the players that want to kill other players which don't want to have it. You call it "design", I call it nonsense and unfair pvp gameplay, where one side only wants to have advantages and rewards by attacking, killing, griefing, ganking, harassing other players that dont have this choice.
YOU should have a choice but the other player not? Why? Thats egoistic and childish. But we want to play a mature game. If you want to fight me, fight me under same conditions, dont be a coward.
Why? Why? Because sometimes games with competitive nature, scarcity of resources and open world PvP might be unfair. Even life is unfair, yet you continue living.
And your message is your personal issue. Yet it goes against Intrepid's core mechanics and I'm wondering what are you even doing here if that's such a big issue. If you want to play it safe, don't come to a game with Risk vs Reward. Simple as that.Again, that's your personal issue here. Go to another place, be there before. It's not "your place" just because you show up. Be non-combatant and gather your ressources with the other player. If all of them are combatant already, step in the fight and do fair pvp, no coward pvp.
Who said it was something bad? Let me also remind that Steven said about game's core pillars: they are non-negotiable. If you wanna complain about it, you do you. Doesn't makes much sense imo, you've made a mistake choosing the wrong game that doesn't fit your preferences.Casual is nothing bad! Steven wants and needs casuals. It's a clear promise and clear statement that those players are attracted and the game needs them to survive and that systems are running.
If I ever decide to attack a non-combatant or kill him, I will be ready to accept the negative consequences of that. Same as anyone else who understand the concept of PvP/PK systemTo sum it up: You want to attack and kill other players up to YOUR choice only independent from the will and choice of the other player. And you call this balanced fair open world pvp in a mature and non-toxic community enviroment, because nobody wants those troublemakers, the major goal is to avoid those players and to remove them, so that the overall health of the game is working and the game is fun and enternaining, not frustrating and full of regression and wast of time. Player problem combined with root cause "non-combatant can be attacked".
Your advice is important, but I prefer to make my own decisions when it comes to playing a videogameYou want to play pvp? Get yourself pvp-flagged, combatant, and fight other combatants. Be a honest fighter, no coward. I'm still missing real arguments why a non-combatant should be allowed to be attacked or even killed. I can only read hiding behind doubtful game design decision that advantage trolls that want to attack harmless players instead of doing equal fights between active combatants (solo, groups, raids, sieges -> in all scenarios its working and perfectly fine).
P.S. Who or what game hurt you that bad that you are so afraid of being killed in a videogame? I swear, I don't understand. If I get jumped by 5 people who attack me for no reason and/or kill/harass me for no reason, I wouldn't care even for a single second. Damn, that would even sound like a challenge to overcome! Because I know that there is always a solution and always a way out, no matter what's going on and how bad it is. You should consider adopting this kind of mentality instead of whining, meaning no offence.
Flanker
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Well this was a long and exhausting read, but worth it. Basically all my claims and suspicions of the L2 Acolytes were proven. I loved the tidbit about Lineage not having health bars and still having the same issues this fractional health bar is intended to address. Yet they claim removing the health bar entirely will resolve it, when they know damn well it won't. They don't see a problem with the system from their sacred beloved game because they WERE the problem. All the loopholes people have spotted and brought up, they've been using those for years in their holy MMO to skate around penalties. There's no issue. They've been able to abuse these things for a long time. Bypassing the corruption system entirely, You can't take that away from them, that's just normal intended gameplay! Changes? Changes??! How dare you suggest such things! If it's not a carbon copy from their holy grail, it's against the pillars and is not allowed!
As I've said before the health bar was never the problem, thus there's no justification for having the fractional health bar. ZERO. It's a band aid over a wound that needs surgery. It doesn't even solve the issue it was created for. All the mentioned exploits are still possible no matter what you do with the health bar. If people want to be dicks, there's nothing stopping them from running through a zone dropping everyone to 25% HP stopping others from leveling or getting them killed. You could camp an area this way and attack anyone attempting to progress making it impossible. This substantially effects solo players or small groups more than others because they won't be able to do anything about it. What are they gonna do, go to another area and get griefed the same way by another group? I don't think you understand how truly game breaking that is. This could mean solo and small groups aren't even able to play the game because they get instantly griefed anytime they try to kill camps.
Taking away valueable information is not a solution and is as silly as removing all health bars allied and enemy. The current setup favors healers and support classes because they have 0 restrictions and get to see 100% accurate hp while DPS or more offensive roles are punished. So much for executes. Meanwhile healers will have no problem timing their life saving abilities. The answer has always been contribution based corruption whether people want to admit it or not. Based on damage, healing, buffs and debuffs. The meter builds the more you attack greens or help others doing so. Once it fills completely you go corrupt. If the green player dies the killer goes corrupt and everyone involved gets an additional burst on their meter. If they leave them alone and don't kill them, the meter goes down gradually on its own or from killing mobs/gaining xp. This solves the issue of players attacking others without the intention of killing them and only to weaken them for nefarious reasons. This should not be a thing to begin with, either commit to killing someone or don't attack them. That's all there is to it. It solves all the corruption related exploits with one addition to the existing system. Get rid of the fractional hp and no CC on greens.
As I've said before the health bar was never the problem, thus there's no justification for having the fractional health bar. ZERO. It's a band aid over a wound that needs surgery. It doesn't even solve the issue it was created for. All the mentioned exploits are still possible no matter what you do with the health bar. If people want to be dicks, there's nothing stopping them from running through a zone dropping everyone to 25% HP stopping others from leveling or getting them killed. You could camp an area this way and attack anyone attempting to progress making it impossible. This substantially effects solo players or small groups more than others because they won't be able to do anything about it. What are they gonna do, go to another area and get griefed the same way by another group? I don't think you understand how truly game breaking that is. This could mean solo and small groups aren't even able to play the game because they get instantly griefed anytime they try to kill camps.
Taking away valueable information is not a solution and is as silly as removing all health bars allied and enemy. The current setup favors healers and support classes because they have 0 restrictions and get to see 100% accurate hp while DPS or more offensive roles are punished. So much for executes. Meanwhile healers will have no problem timing their life saving abilities. The answer has always been contribution based corruption whether people want to admit it or not. Based on damage, healing, buffs and debuffs. The meter builds the more you attack greens or help others doing so. Once it fills completely you go corrupt. If the green player dies the killer goes corrupt and everyone involved gets an additional burst on their meter. If they leave them alone and don't kill them, the meter goes down gradually on its own or from killing mobs/gaining xp. This solves the issue of players attacking others without the intention of killing them and only to weaken them for nefarious reasons. This should not be a thing to begin with, either commit to killing someone or don't attack them. That's all there is to it. It solves all the corruption related exploits with one addition to the existing system. Get rid of the fractional hp and no CC on greens.
Voeltz
2
Re: (EU) Monkey Business | PvP & PvX | Hardcore AND Social | New Guild!
Free bump!
But also an invitation to join up here as we grow the AoC Guilds community, website coming soon! Discord is up and pretty active already!
But also an invitation to join up here as we grow the AoC Guilds community, website coming soon! Discord is up and pretty active already!
Srixun
1