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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Best Of
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Very simple question:No, I've said there will be pvper/combatants everywhere and thats why YOU dont have to fear that you cannot play pvp in an open world, because this is what you want and not harassing greens/non-combatants. This is a huge difference, you can read it again if you like.It's interesting how in previous messages you emotionally describe that there will PKers and griefers everywhere and now it became "a minor segment" xDDD
PKs and griefers should not get a ruleset that allows them to grief and harass other players. But that's exaclty what's implemented in Ashes and it is called "non combatants can be attacked and killed". Not one, not two not thousands of griefers.
You always try to say "will not happen often". I dont believe that with current ruleset and design.
Ashes doesn't encourage random PKing. It encourages conflict over contested resources.
Otherwise corruption wouldn't exist to disincentivise griefing.
How punishing would the bountyhunter system have to be for corrupted players, before you'd accept it as a sufficient deterrence against harassment?
There is no value.
The two are not related.
As a person who plays one game like this, has played another, and helps with one.
The two things are absolutely not related. In games that work the way Ashes implies that it will work, every time a certain type of person PKs, they absolutely expect to be hunted down and die, and they are doing it anyway with the intent to benefit their group/guild.
Since Ashes does contain incentives through which a person can benefit their group/guild by killing random solo players, this will happen. We could remove 'incentives for killing solo players' through a redesign of some stuff, but no one wants that.
So, focusing on just that point, I say just dismiss it. The Bounty Hunter system does not contribute to this. If anything, the sort of 'perma-red' who harasses or PKs for fun, is trying to attract bounty hunters.
Azherae
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »They were dropping on death from npcs for 2 years after release. But yeah, you got a point that there's a higher chance of PKing cause Ashes has player loot (oh how I fucking hate that feature).Are we going back to ignoring that L2 stopped people from dropping items fairly early in and seemingly never had them drop as much as Ashes does?
I feel like this needs to be factored.
And I'll definitely admit I was wrong if that feature will highly increase PKing in Ashes. Right now I don't believe it will, cause I doubt people will risk going Red just over some mats, but we'll have to see.
Why go red when you can get them killed by mobs lmao.
Mag7spy
3
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Yup. We played the game where PvP/PK system was much more forgiving and less punishing for PKers and griefers. However, those cases were still pretty rare overall.Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »I doubt people will risk going Red just over some mats, but we'll have to see.
But no matter how you look back at it, it's absolutely not the same game.
All the incentives are different, all the underlying pushes are different. I will join the crowd of people saying that using L2 as an example of why a similar Corruption system works is not sufficient.
L2 crafting was also not very detailed, nor were pipelines required for much, and the economy even had two different 'auto-requiring' levers.
Continuing to claim that L2 systems work in preference to ArcheAge systems makes no sense. ArcheAge is the closer game because of the economy.
I will absolutely turn this into a true discussion of cost metrics if necessary. Do you have incentive to 'load up a Caravan by a particular time' in L2? No. Do you have a benefit in delaying an opponent group from finishing a task in time before you know they log off because they want to fill up their caravan? No.
In this conversation, the L2 vets are the ones at the experiential disadvantage. If y'all want people to listen to you when things are L2-adjacent and your experience counts, you need to do the same. Or not, and get the 'Lineage2 brainrot' response.
Azherae
2
Re: Well requested a refund on my Alpha 2 package
Corporate tax avoidance?!? Dear God, this is an outrage! /sCompany has/had two liens for not paying tax.
I assume the OP ran into this 3 years old thread on MMORPG.com and failed to provide the source:
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/495292/state-of-california-edd-has-placed-a-lien-on-intrepid
The figure stated there for 2021 was $50 000. I'm not sure you could even hire a part time cleaner for that money in California.
@Nemeses Look I get it, you don't like such news being associated with a project you supported. That is a measure of your appetite for risk. See you later.
Re: Well requested a refund on my Alpha 2 package
ThevoicestHeVoIcEs wrote: »Corporate tax avoidance?!? Dear God, this is an outrage! /sCompany has/had two liens for not paying tax.
I assume the OP ran into this 3 years old thread on MMORPG.com and failed to provide the source:
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/495292/state-of-california-edd-has-placed-a-lien-on-intrepid
The figure stated there for 2021 was $50 000. I'm not sure you could even hire a part time cleaner for that money in California.
@/Nemeses Look I get it, you don't like such news being associated with a project you supported. That is a measure of your appetite for risk. See you later.
There's links to the actual case files referenced in that thread and from that, it says both the complaint and cross-complaint were dismissed with prejudice. (Aka neither party were granted what they asked for and they cannot bring the case back to court)
Can't read the docs without signing up for it, but I wouldn't call that hard evidence of scammy wrongdoing on its own.
Caeryl
2
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Such a water-flavoured take. Old games are unfun to play because their communities have died and because they are not up to par with modern standards. That's partly because 1) smaller niche games don't have the funds to maintain ambitious development (which doesn't make them unviable, it just means they'll need to be replaced more often than something like WoW in order for their subgenre to stay alive), and 2) communities spread out and don't come back when those lacking features accumulate.Play L2, really. If it was not good enough for you, you should have learned out of that experience why that is the case and why it will happen again, if the same is repeated. Vas from Farcry would call that insanity.
"Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is? Insanity is doing the exact... same fucking thing... over and over again expecting... shit to change... That. Is. Crazy."
That's not evidence that the defining features of those games weren't interesting enough to appeal to the playerbase, it just means that the game as a whole didn't stay up to par with the market. The fundamental gameplay loop might still be vastly more intriguing than the mainstream game's loop; the surrounding features just weren't good enough to keep the thing as a whole alive.
Ashes solves this problem perfectly by investing more into curated content. The PvX, high-risk-high-reward principles underlying the game's system that the game copies weren't the reason why games like Lineage 2 died, and you seriously have to expand your thinking if you can't let go of that assumption.
The simple truth your mainstream-addicted mind is in denial about is that the MMO market as a whole has been dying a painful death in the larger landscape of multiplayer online gaming, and needs something that's not yet another WoW clone, if you want the genre to survive.
Something that revives the advantages of traditional MMO gameplay (= challenging, dangerous worlds; enticements for player interaction and competition; and giving players control over the development of the world around them) embedded in the comforts of the mainstream games that have appealed to the masses of the genre (= high output of curated content.)
The downside of that is that you'll have to take a risk. A risk to do something that isn't a proven concept. Appealing to evidence of what worked in the past, and arguing against things because they failed once, is exactly how you prevent innovation that changes the status quo.
Your suggestion takes most of this innovation out of Ashes and replaces it with easy rewards for existing as a solo player, and most likely shallow, trite dailies and afk-brained quests, so everyone can reach the same level of success as everyone else by existing on their own. We already have themeparks. Those are not the games we need more of.
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Yup. We played the game where PvP/PK system was much more forgiving and less punishing for PKers and griefers. However, those cases were still pretty rare overall.Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »I doubt people will risk going Red just over some mats, but we'll have to see.
Flanker
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Chaliux and Airborne are utterly stuck in their defeatist "if it doesn't appeal to the things that work in the mainstream, the game will fail" attitude, I don't know why people are entertaining this conversation for so long. Their determination will always remain that majority trumps integrity.
Ashes is a game that rewards group play, because group play optimises the advantages of a holy-trinity system of class specialisation to maximise each player's potential. Players who don't do that should expect to be vastly less successful at what they're doing. You keep asking for compromises on those principles with questions like "Why should I not continue to keep asking for these minor aspects of the game to be changed, if I like everything else?"
Ashes is a game that rewards risk-versus-reward, which means people taking larger risks need to be punishable, so they don't get the big rewards for free, simply by showing up and being inconspicuous. This punishment is created by other players, if leeches try to sneak rewards with no effort, or take control of a different guild's area simply by existing and not fighting. If you try to play that way, other players get the option of challenging you for their resources, and they get to bring the friends they allied with in order to manifest that power over the contested objective/territory.
If you can't accept that the game has design pillars that don't align with your preferences, the game isn't for you, regardless of how many other parts of the game's content do appeal to you.
If you can accept these deviations from your preference, you have to stop asserting that these things have to change in order for the game to be good or popular - because most other people also understand that a game's systems have to be internally consistent in order to produce an interesting game that doesn't just copy the themepark experience that already exists in 10 different copies of the same game.
This thread is wild. We got people denying that newbie guilds work, when they are so prevalent in EVERY game on the market that the "multiplayer" gameplay they encourage effectively resembles LFG solo play without any actual communication.
We got Dygz arguing against solo players. I don't think you appreciate how deeply in denial you have to be to get to this point.
There are more self-reflected single-player MMO fans than you out there who understand that what they ultimately want to experience in a game doesn't have to correspond directly to the first thing that comes to their mind when they think about a good MMO. The game's systems have to be internally consistent, so you're working towards a larger goal, in a system where a certain set of actions are rewarded.But other players want other features, it's not only about you. A lot of other MMO players will provide this feedback soon and as iterations are wanted and feedback asked for, exactly this will happen. And to ignore it to stay in the bubble and own echo chamber will even make the situation more worse and the reputation will be ruined.Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »Ashes in its current state will be closer to the L2 I want to play than the L2 that's available right now, which is exactly why I want to keep Ashes the way that it was promised to be.
Ashes is a game that rewards group play, because group play optimises the advantages of a holy-trinity system of class specialisation to maximise each player's potential. Players who don't do that should expect to be vastly less successful at what they're doing. You keep asking for compromises on those principles with questions like "Why should I not continue to keep asking for these minor aspects of the game to be changed, if I like everything else?"
Ashes is a game that rewards risk-versus-reward, which means people taking larger risks need to be punishable, so they don't get the big rewards for free, simply by showing up and being inconspicuous. This punishment is created by other players, if leeches try to sneak rewards with no effort, or take control of a different guild's area simply by existing and not fighting. If you try to play that way, other players get the option of challenging you for their resources, and they get to bring the friends they allied with in order to manifest that power over the contested objective/territory.
If you can't accept that the game has design pillars that don't align with your preferences, the game isn't for you, regardless of how many other parts of the game's content do appeal to you.
If you can accept these deviations from your preference, you have to stop asserting that these things have to change in order for the game to be good or popular - because most other people also understand that a game's systems have to be internally consistent in order to produce an interesting game that doesn't just copy the themepark experience that already exists in 10 different copies of the same game.
This thread is wild. We got people denying that newbie guilds work, when they are so prevalent in EVERY game on the market that the "multiplayer" gameplay they encourage effectively resembles LFG solo play without any actual communication.
We got Dygz arguing against solo players. I don't think you appreciate how deeply in denial you have to be to get to this point.
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
But do you at least recognize the ridiculousness of the fact that someone who actually offers a solution to reduce the amount of griefing is being accused of wanting to grief other players?Well, that's valid also for me, because the entire discussion from my view fits to your feeling of the discussion from your view.
I wouldn't call myself a strictly PvP player. I enjoy both PvP and PvE, so probably I'm more of a PvX player. And that's why I'm here.The majority of it I'm convinced, not a segment. The pvp players at your "taste" are a minority. Steven himselfs knows this and stated this already. It's quoted in the wiki also at the player types section. I've already linked that.
Buddy, I live in a country that has been invaded and now participates in the largest war since WW2. 15 hours ago there was another massive attack of kamikaze drones, flying just a few hundreds meters away from me. If it wasn't night, I'd not only hear them, but see them as wel. Several weeks ago there was a ballistic missile hit ~500m away from my house. And this happens for 900+ days already.The game is not allowing me to make my own choice for this particular topic and I still don't want to hear form other players that they like harassing others and to victim blaming instead on working on their attidute and behaviour. This is the corrent way of doing it. I've to do nothing on my side, really.
Avoidance: That is excaclty what I want. I want to avoid that this trolls are attacking me. And the game is not providing my a possiblity for that, but for the trolls attacking me. And therefore your proposal is fully right, and I'm in the same opinion, but the game lacks of implementing it. If you were not in a position to attack me at a time that I dont want you to do so, we would not have this entire discussion.
And as I cannot avoid it, I'm searching and fighting for more punishment for those players that did the action, the attack, the kill. Again, in pvp situations where this is intented (sieges, caravans, ...) everything is perfectly fine.
I didn't choose to be a part of it and it happened without my consent, obviously. Yet, I am not complaining even though I can literally die at any moment. Sometimes such unfortunate things happen, whether we want it or not. Complaining never helps, but overcoming and adapting always does. Life isn't fair, but fuck it, it's possible to get over anything. Especially, if it is... just... a videogame.
Nope, I never admitted that - you are twisting my words attemting to prove your point; and I don't even recall myself doing that in Lineage 2. Nobody out of those I was competing with in Lineage 2 ever complained or accused me in griefing. Neither did I. Because we perfectly understood the difference between competition for valuable limited resources and actual griefing.But as you already admitted that you like to attack harmless other players all confirmation is given.
It's interesting how in previous messages you emotionally describe that there will PKers and griefers everywhere and now it became "a minor segment" xDDDAnd that's because some minor segment of harassing-pvp players like it and the majority of mature-pvp players dont.
Flanker
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »As Flanker said, you're afraid of an occurrence that has singular digits of %s to happen, but you want to change the entire game's design just to remove those <10%. Even though these few % can still be avoided by several in-game means.
Are we going back to ignoring that L2 stopped people from dropping items fairly early in and seemingly never had them drop as much as Ashes does?
I feel like this needs to be factored.
Azherae
3