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Vaknar wrote: »

Dev Discussions are an opportunity to join in on player discussions about topics that Intrepid Studios want to hear your thoughts on. This is less about asking us questions, and more about us asking YOU the questions! If you do have questions about Ashes of Creation, keep an eye our social media channels for our monthly Q&A thread, check out the Ashes of Creation community wiki, or try the #questions channel in Discord!

In this thread, we’ll be discussing:

Dev Discussion - Crowd Control
Crowd Control (CC) are abilities that Interrupt or disable an enemy’s movement. CC breaks are abilities that cancel or stop CC abilities.

• How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
• How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
• What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?

1. How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?

While CC can add a layer of strategy to MMORPGs, its overuse often leads to frustrating and unenjoyable gameplay. Excessive CC mechanics can strip players of control over their characters for prolonged periods, turning engaging combat into a cycle of helplessness. This not only diminishes the player's agency but also disrupts the flow of the game.

In PvP scenarios, prevalent CC abilities can create an unbalanced playing field where victory is determined not by skill or strategy but by who can immobilize the other first. This can lead to a toxic environment where players feel cheated out of fair fights. In PvE, over-reliance on CC can make encounters feel monotonous, as players repeatedly disable enemies rather than engaging with dynamic combat mechanics.

CC breaks, intended to counteract CC effects, can further complicate the issue. If CC is so rampant that CC breaks become a necessity, it indicates a fundamental imbalance in the game's design. Players should not have to dedicate resources or abilities solely to counteract an overpowered mechanic. Instead, CC should be used sparingly to enhance combat, not dominate it.

2. How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?

Allowing all archetypes to have CC breaks risks homogenizing the classes, eroding the unique identities and roles that make each archetype interesting. Classes should offer distinct playstyles and strategic options, but if every archetype can counter CC in the same way, it diminishes the need for teamwork and role specialization.

Moreover, universal CC breaks can lead to an arms race where CC abilities become stronger to compensate for the ease of breaking them. This cycle exacerbates the prevalence of CC, further entrenching it as a dominant mechanic. It reduces the diversity of combat interactions, as players rely on the same counters regardless of their class choice.

By giving all archetypes CC breaks, the game diminishes the value of strategic planning and situational awareness. Players no longer need to consider positioning or timing to avoid CC; they can simply rely on their CC break ability. This can make combat feel shallow and less rewarding, as the nuances that come from class differences and player decisions are overshadowed by generic solutions.

3. What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?

Forcing players to choose between CC/CC breaks and damage when allocating skill points creates an unhealthy gameplay dynamic. It pressures players into investing in CC-related abilities not because they enhance their chosen playstyle, but because they are necessary to remain competitive. This limits build diversity and can make character progression feel restrictive.

When CC is overly prevalent, neglecting CC or CC breaks in favor of damage can leave players at a significant disadvantage, unable to perform effectively in both PvE and PvP. This can lead to a homogenization of builds, where optimal play requires a specific allocation of skill points, reducing the freedom players have to customize their characters.

Furthermore, this trade-off can be detrimental to class roles. For example, damage dealers may feel compelled to sacrifice their primary function—dealing damage—in order to invest in CC breaks. This undermines the class system and can lead to imbalanced group dynamics, where players are less effective in their intended roles because they had to compensate for the overpowered CC mechanics.

There hasn't been official communication yet, but in the past people have been notified of where and how to download the client via email - so be sure to keep an eye on your email.

How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
Every archetype should have some form of CC. Ideally their own type, rather than just their own spin on the same type.

How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I personally prefer if CC breaks come only from the bard and cleric.

What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
If everyone has access to both, then this is a requirement, cause all of your dps stuff won't matter if you can't CC your opponent for long enough to use them or if you're CCed yourself and can't get out of it.

Remember that livestream where Steven just got stun-blocked to death, and could do nothing about it? Can't have that happening in-game, Ashes would become a laughing-stock.

If you restrict CCs to one or two archetypes, then it simply means that everybody targets those first, and then the rest of the group second, and you've got a whole team that's CC'd all together. Where's the fun in combat when you can just stand there and tickle them to death. It also means that if somebody attacks you in a 1v1, if you're the archetype that doesn't have a CC break, then you're screwed.

RaspberryHeaven wrote: »

How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
There's nothing more fun than not letting your opponents have fun. If CC breaks are common, they should only work against one or two types of disables or purge a single stack rather than of all of them. Anything else results in people just building for damage since single target disables become worthless.

How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
If each archetype has a CC break, the ones who don't have to chase their targets need weaker CC breaks like spending all stamina at once or losing health up front in exchange for not eating an entire combo.

What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
That depends on how many disables there are in total and whether CC breaks can prevent forced movement, I am going to pick neither if I can get away with it on a ranger. In most games DPS has to be a glass cannon or risk having his party wiped by one. This goes double for PvE where enemies won't even target you once as long as tanks know what they are doing.

You are gravely mistaken in how this works. When CC breaks are common, your cc's are still exceedingly valuable - even the single target ones, you just have to put more brainpower into using them.

If you want to lock a target down, when solo you need to burn their breaks using other CC's -> if you're in a group, you just have to do a bit of minimal coordination.

You then have a skill differential between whether your opponent decides to consume their breaks on CC's that you have deemed less critical to your current success, or if they bite it and save it for the coming <stun> or something that they deem could come at a worse time for them.

It also grants further flavor/class identity to classes who have access to more CC's, who will obviously have an easier time locking down targets.

--> Someone else mentioned having individual *types* of breaks for individual types of CC, and it's a button bloat nightmare that existed in Archeage that is almost universally despised by the (now former) playerbase. Terrible take.

--> a final note, is that CC should generally not exist to remove people from the fight for extended durations, it should exist to disrupt the fight and gain advantage in a critical moment - it should feel bad to get cc'ed, but it shouldn't consistently feel like people aren't getting to play the game in fights. This becomes even more relevant in RvR, where you still only have access to <a few CC breaks> relative to the dozens of cc's flying out per minute, making conserving your break for the right time even more important.

1. PvP has been plagued by excessive CC for years and it is a major contributor towards why people leave the genre - CC in PvP has devolved into a mixed disgusting mess of mindless spam cc and casual 2 digit cc durations via cycling different CC DR's + CC's inherently lasting too long in general.
2. Every character should have a global, universal CC break with a modest CD (60-120s), additionally, every Archetype should have reasonable access to an additional universal CC break by pathing into it in their tree. Either most or almost every Archetype should have relatively niche and generally too-costly-to-take CC breaks on an opposite side of the tree, that would not be taken in an overwhelming majority of builds but that is an option for filling a niche. Melee should generally have an easier time spec'ing into a potential third CC break or CC duration reduction.
3. It is a good route to take so long as everyone has a generic universal cc break as part of their base kit or something similar. Giving people the option to spec into certain things to help them be weaker in one area but stronger against others of greater personal importance, is a key aspect to risk vs reward and having actual build choices rather than a set in stone meta.

---> TL;DR: Give everyone 1 CC break, an easily achieved option for a second and anything beyond that should be niche and generally quite expensive to acquire.

Addendum: Chain cc'ing should effectively not be a thing, DR's should be universal to everything other than arguably roots (which should probably have their own) and slows.

Doggle wrote: »

Not all types should have CC. All should have interrupts for enemy casts though.

All should have personal CC break-out skills. Only some classes should be able to break-out/provide immunity to other players.

Ditto. No one should be helpless to CC stacking so everyone should have their break-free option, and not everyone should be able to apply hard CCs. Get some variety in the disabling abilities. Blinds, Roots, Silences, and Slows to go with the Knockbacks, Stuns, Charms, and Staggers.

Dimishing returns on CC should also exist to prevent stunlocking like we saw on stream. That's a real awful experience trying to PvP when you're stuck with no control of your character.

Resurrecting this thread from 3+ years ago.

After being "homeless" for most of this year after I stopped playing GW2 in January, with A2 coming up in a few weeks I wanted to stretch out my gaming muscles and prep with Throne and Liberty that just game out yesterday, however like the OP, T&L didn't have the ability to turn left and right in the keybinds, and unfortunately with my playstyle, it makes the game nearly unplayable.

I know Intrepid just put out the keybind image in the last week, however I don't see any option to TURN left/right, only to strafe. Do we know if TURNING will be an option and simply not part of the default keybinds, or will this not be a thing in AOC? I can't imagine them not including this as an option, but I would be beyond disappointed if they didn't.

Dev Discussions are an opportunity to join in on player discussions about topics that Intrepid Studios want to hear your thoughts on. This is less about asking us questions, and more about us asking YOU the questions! If you do have questions about Ashes of Creation, keep an eye our social media channels for our monthly Q&A thread, check out the Ashes of Creation community wiki, or try the #questions channel in Discord!

In this thread, we’ll be discussing:

Dev Discussion - Crowd Control
Crowd Control (CC) are abilities that Interrupt or disable an enemy’s movement. CC breaks are abilities that cancel or stop CC abilities.

• How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
• How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
• What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?

I prefer decent CC in PvP every time but dislike too many CC breaks, as I feel they take away from the gameplay. However, you should be able to spec gear to mitigate CC.

This balances CC impact while allowing for customization through gear, which keeps PvP engaging without over-reliance on constant breaks.