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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Best Of
Re: Live Streamer Grief-Pulling Mobs for Over a Week
unknowncannibal wrote: »unknowncannibal wrote: »He did this for another 4 more hours last night in Carph tower all streamed btw.
I mean, Ashes is the kind of game where this is perfectly valid gameplay. Right now it is easier than it should be, but that is about it.
What he is saying in shat is also not against the rules at all.
Ashes is a game where you are at the mercy of other players, and they are at your mercy. If someone is stronger than you (or a guild or alliance is stronger than yours) and they don't want you running a piece of content, you won't be running that piece of content.
Right now, this player is stronger than you and doesn't want you running that content.
I have and many other players have killed him, but since the corruption system is stupid and punishes you for killing him (since he's unflagged) he can just run through mobs and run into groups to wipe and not flag at all till everyone's dead and loot them. It doesn't matter if we stop all AoE and healing around him, he just runs it into people and stands there til mobs start hitting other players. This isn't fun in anyway having to deal with this guy.
The solution there would be to have your tank drop intimidating aura and run everything into the corner so he can los the current pull against the wall where the cleric can't break los or easily lose aggro of the mobs he's pulling towards you. Then have someone flag up to slow and sleep him when he goes to pull more, he'll die to his overpull and no one gets corruption.

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Crafting. Quality Rating and it's usefulness
Hello everyone.
Recently posted some thoughts in Discrod but then I was asked to create a forum thread.
I conducted several tests on the item grading system and was quite puzzled by the data I received. I want to share a brief summary with you and hope that someone can confirm or refute my understanding of the "quality" mechanics.
The quality system is based on a linear dependency, where grades range from 0 to 600, spanning from common to legendary. Each hundred marks a change in color: 100 is white, 200 is green, 300 is blue, and so on.
I managed to create a model for some items that predicts the outcome with fairly good accuracy, so I want to use it as an example.
Let's suppose - creating an item requires 4 ingredients in different proportions, for instance, 1+1+10+1 = 13. In this case, each ingredient would account for approximately ~8% (100%/13) of the total. Depending on the color, a grade coefficient is applied to the item.
So, if I take 3 legendary ingredients and 10 common ones, the final quality would be calculated as follows:
This would result in a green item with an internal quality offset of +24% from the possible range of values(RoV).
Let me clarify upfront: this model currently does not account for certain variables present in the game, as I haven’t figured them out yet. When creating the same item with a total quality of exactly 400% by rearranging some ingredients, I sometimes get a heroic item with a minimal range offset and other times a rare item with a maximum offset.
I suspect the issue lies either in the type of data used for the formula on the game-backend or in floating-point arithmetic, which introduces a bit of chaos into the predictions. However, there might also be other explanations.
What is the RoV I mentioned earlier?
Let’s say an item has a "power rating" parameter ranging from 100 to 120. A 25% quality within that range would correspond to a parameter value of 105. Similarly, 50% would correspond to 110.
Better quality in this RoV can be increased in two ways: by using even more valuable ingredients or by equipping items that provide a "Craftname Quality Rating." Through experimentation, I discovered that ~20 Quality Rating is equivalent to 1% of RoV, and this upset me greatly. Let me explain why.
Let’s take, for example, the "Apprentice Leatherworker's Shirt" and the "Journeyman Leatherworker's Shirt."
Their Leatherworking Quality Ratings are:
Apprentice: 56–66 for the white grade, 211–275 for the legendary grade.
Journeyman: 92–107 for the white grade, 282–359 for the legendary grade.
The difficulty and effort required to craft these two items are currently disproportionate, but the final difference in terms of position in RoV appears to be very insignificant—only about ~4%.
Of course, when we’re talking about min-maxing, an 8% difference provided by two items is substantial, but is it really that significant in practical terms?
Let’s take a closer look.
Imagine we magically assemble a fully legendary Journeyman set (ignoring the rarity of leather) consisting of three items—jacket, pants, and belt—at the minimum RoV point. In total, we get:
282 + 307 + 267 = 856 rating, which equals approximately 42.8%. Now, we’re fancy and can afford to craft upgraded versions of these items.
Let’s start with the pants, which have a range of 307–392. With our 42.8%, the new value becomes 343, adding about ~1.8%. A bit of simplified mathematical approximation leads us to conclude that if we spend an extraordinary amount of resources on repeatedly crafting legendary items in leatherworking, tailoring, and armor smithing, we can eventually create a set whose total bonus approaches 50%(though it’s unlikely to actually reach that value).
But what do these 50% mean in relation to legendary items?
Let’s consider something like the Rosethorn Tunic.
Since we’re slightly below 50%, rounding will likely go downward, resulting in the following stats for our Rosethorn Tunic:
Naturally, we wear several items, and each one provides a bit of a benefit for character min-maxing. But even in this case, an approximate increase of +8 Intelligence compared to ~250+ is merely 3%, and the scale of this benefit seems catastrophically disproportionate to the required effort.
I really hope that I’m missing something and that you’ll tell me about it, but for now, I’m in a state of complete confusion. The only consolation is that we’re currently in 1/3 of the game’s progression, and the target items are, of course, level 50 gear. Perhaps a level 50 legendary set will provide +100% to quality, and in that case, it will be an entirely different conversation.
=====================================================
UPDATED 2025/01/16
The initial assumption was incorrect. The game uses a non-linear formula.
So instead of 100%, 200%, 300%... 600% we have thresholds:
1 - сommon
6 - uncommon
16 - rare
31 - heroic
51 - epic
71 - legendary
100 - legendary with best stats.
That means our Crafting Quality Rating would give us different impact on different tiers. If we will use Legendary Journeyman set, for example on uncommon reagents, we will get rare result. But if we will use it while crafting legendaty item, we will get only 30% of possible stat bonuses.
We have some basic calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QbSOHPcWPri-UE-NU_tEiZ1YI3-D-A_b1My-0_WTwYw/edit?gid=843461881#gid=843461881 feel free to use.
Recently posted some thoughts in Discrod but then I was asked to create a forum thread.
I conducted several tests on the item grading system and was quite puzzled by the data I received. I want to share a brief summary with you and hope that someone can confirm or refute my understanding of the "quality" mechanics.
The quality system is based on a linear dependency, where grades range from 0 to 600, spanning from common to legendary. Each hundred marks a change in color: 100 is white, 200 is green, 300 is blue, and so on.
I managed to create a model for some items that predicts the outcome with fairly good accuracy, so I want to use it as an example.
Let's suppose - creating an item requires 4 ingredients in different proportions, for instance, 1+1+10+1 = 13. In this case, each ingredient would account for approximately ~8% (100%/13) of the total. Depending on the color, a grade coefficient is applied to the item.
So, if I take 3 legendary ingredients and 10 common ones, the final quality would be calculated as follows:
3 * 8% * K_leg + 10 * 8% * K_com = 144% + 80% = 224% where K_leg = 6 for legendary items K_com = 1 for common items
This would result in a green item with an internal quality offset of +24% from the possible range of values(RoV).
Let me clarify upfront: this model currently does not account for certain variables present in the game, as I haven’t figured them out yet. When creating the same item with a total quality of exactly 400% by rearranging some ingredients, I sometimes get a heroic item with a minimal range offset and other times a rare item with a maximum offset.
I suspect the issue lies either in the type of data used for the formula on the game-backend or in floating-point arithmetic, which introduces a bit of chaos into the predictions. However, there might also be other explanations.
What is the RoV I mentioned earlier?
Let’s say an item has a "power rating" parameter ranging from 100 to 120. A 25% quality within that range would correspond to a parameter value of 105. Similarly, 50% would correspond to 110.
Better quality in this RoV can be increased in two ways: by using even more valuable ingredients or by equipping items that provide a "Craftname Quality Rating." Through experimentation, I discovered that ~20 Quality Rating is equivalent to 1% of RoV, and this upset me greatly. Let me explain why.
Let’s take, for example, the "Apprentice Leatherworker's Shirt" and the "Journeyman Leatherworker's Shirt."
Their Leatherworking Quality Ratings are:
Apprentice: 56–66 for the white grade, 211–275 for the legendary grade.
Journeyman: 92–107 for the white grade, 282–359 for the legendary grade.
The difficulty and effort required to craft these two items are currently disproportionate, but the final difference in terms of position in RoV appears to be very insignificant—only about ~4%.
Of course, when we’re talking about min-maxing, an 8% difference provided by two items is substantial, but is it really that significant in practical terms?
Let’s take a closer look.
Imagine we magically assemble a fully legendary Journeyman set (ignoring the rarity of leather) consisting of three items—jacket, pants, and belt—at the minimum RoV point. In total, we get:
282 + 307 + 267 = 856 rating, which equals approximately 42.8%. Now, we’re fancy and can afford to craft upgraded versions of these items.
Let’s start with the pants, which have a range of 307–392. With our 42.8%, the new value becomes 343, adding about ~1.8%. A bit of simplified mathematical approximation leads us to conclude that if we spend an extraordinary amount of resources on repeatedly crafting legendary items in leatherworking, tailoring, and armor smithing, we can eventually create a set whose total bonus approaches 50%(though it’s unlikely to actually reach that value).
But what do these 50% mean in relation to legendary items?
Let’s consider something like the Rosethorn Tunic.
Armor: 63–68 Magic Resist: 63–68 Intelligence: 13–16 Magical Critical Chance Rating: 25–31 Mana Regeneration Rating: 20–25 Magical Penetration Rating: 20–31 Wisdom: 3–6
Since we’re slightly below 50%, rounding will likely go downward, resulting in the following stats for our Rosethorn Tunic:
Armor: 65 (+2) Magic Resist: 65 (+2) Intelligence: 14 (+1) Magical Critical Chance Rating: 27 (+2) Mana Regeneration Rating: 22 (+2) Magical Penetration Rating: 25 (+5) Wisdom: 4 (+1)The result is roughly equivalent to a single +1 enchantment. However, enchanting costs millions of times less than preparing a full legendary-quality crafter set.
Naturally, we wear several items, and each one provides a bit of a benefit for character min-maxing. But even in this case, an approximate increase of +8 Intelligence compared to ~250+ is merely 3%, and the scale of this benefit seems catastrophically disproportionate to the required effort.
I really hope that I’m missing something and that you’ll tell me about it, but for now, I’m in a state of complete confusion. The only consolation is that we’re currently in 1/3 of the game’s progression, and the target items are, of course, level 50 gear. Perhaps a level 50 legendary set will provide +100% to quality, and in that case, it will be an entirely different conversation.
=====================================================
UPDATED 2025/01/16
The initial assumption was incorrect. The game uses a non-linear formula.
So instead of 100%, 200%, 300%... 600% we have thresholds:
1 - сommon
6 - uncommon
16 - rare
31 - heroic
51 - epic
71 - legendary
100 - legendary with best stats.
That means our Crafting Quality Rating would give us different impact on different tiers. If we will use Legendary Journeyman set, for example on uncommon reagents, we will get rare result. But if we will use it while crafting legendaty item, we will get only 30% of possible stat bonuses.
We have some basic calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QbSOHPcWPri-UE-NU_tEiZ1YI3-D-A_b1My-0_WTwYw/edit?gid=843461881#gid=843461881 feel free to use.
Re: Discussion: Rarity on items
Once we get crafting dials, I'd prefer if material rarity inluenced those in various ways. And while legendary mats might give you the best stat stick, lower rarities could give you more of a horizontal change to the item, which might fit your build better.
Imo this would drastically increase the usefulness of mat rarities w/o completely removing them as a concept.
Imo this would drastically increase the usefulness of mat rarities w/o completely removing them as a concept.

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Re: Everything feels so unfriendly...
Terranigma1 wrote: »Thus, I really dislike the term "hand-holding" in this context because it isn't. It isn't hand-holding to use "M" as an auto-key for map, because it's just a standard in bascially every game. Holding right-click to rotate the camera isn't also hand-holding; it's a standard. Similarly, simply giving new players a hindsight for how to access the most gameplay elements of the game isn't hand-holding - it's merely enabling players to actually play the game without expecting the other players to act as a tutorial or in-game guide, because the devs made their basic gameplay system so intransparent. Personally, I don't see how it makes Ashes a better game if new players flood the chat with "Where can I craft an axe?", "How to I attack a mob?", "Where can I get my first weapon?", "How do I jump?", etc. This isn't the time and place for socialization, but this is the moment players log off and deinstall the game. Also on the other side of the stick, I personally wouldn't be in a mood to explain each and every new player what a node is and how it works, because I simply expect to game to explain itself and don't expect me to do it.
It is really funny that these people make excuse like "it is social aspect of the mmo to ask" meanwhile this is the same hand holding as they describe but instead of from dev it is hand holding by other player. This is just lazy design with expecting players to solve the lack of tutorial or some introduction to the game. It is not cool and as you said earlier peopple gonna just quit if they find all these things confusing. I remember some bigger streamer sodapoppin logged in to the game, checked first quest or two, they were so confusing that he just left the game and never came back. It is not a good design, it can be done that way in much later stages, the further you are in the more complicated it can get, but it shouldn't be instantly annoying and hard to find. We got like 5 stages of crafting/processing/gathering why not making first one which is for everyone (novice level) just beginner friendly? We won't lose anything if people will get some time to understand and get into these professions. If we want professions to be big factor in this game they should have much love in terms of introduction and polish even early on. If it will be hard people will just level up without caring about professions and it will make a huge black hole in the market because we won't have resources and processed stuff from these people. Also it is not that hard to optimize, they are just lazy to skip that for so long. I don't accept excuse that it is not the phase for that if they keep fixing mount animations or skill animations or visual fidelity 5-6 times already and didn't touch any important systems yet.

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Re: [Mount] Finite Market Problem
Instead of death it could also be a degradation. For example if you have a legendary mount it will, after long time use, degrade into an epic mount, later heroic and so on. This would simply simulate it getting older and weaker. Then there will always be renewed need for the best mounts but people won't just suddenly lose a mount and be forced to walk.
Also there could be a temporary debuff on a mount like sickness or injury that can only be healed by an expert in animal husbandry of appropriate skill for money. The chance for injury or sickness of a mount could be increasing or decreasing in relation to age and proper use. For example if you're always swimming with your horse it could get sick while an aquatic mount won't have any problems in water. But that same aquatic mount might get sick if you use it in the desert or simply on land too much.
Also there could be a temporary debuff on a mount like sickness or injury that can only be healed by an expert in animal husbandry of appropriate skill for money. The chance for injury or sickness of a mount could be increasing or decreasing in relation to age and proper use. For example if you're always swimming with your horse it could get sick while an aquatic mount won't have any problems in water. But that same aquatic mount might get sick if you use it in the desert or simply on land too much.
Re: [Mount] Finite Market Problem
I think mount age and death when old is a good idea tbh. It’s realistic too. Maybe mounts would last 3-6 mo?
Re: How should ranger feel in Ashes of Creation?
I agree on that rangers simply do not quite have that "Hunter vs prey" feel to them right now.
Marks feel very underwhelming, yet I appreciate them in the sense that they can be used to coordinate burst of the entire group (such as firestarter bandits, clerics in PvP etc) - but the rest of the "death from afar" and hunter theme that Steven has for the ranger (according to the wiki) feels missing. Some kind of Focus resource, reset on marks if the target dies with it and/or some synergy between hunts and marks other than hunts being passive stances would go a long way!
The problem I see right now is that with rangers currently having the class fantasy of an apex predator, we're leaning in very closely to rogue's "ambush, assassination and vanish"-fantasy. The only difference between the two right now (judging by the abilities on the wiki) is that one of them is melee and one is ranged, in my opinion. Both rely on being unseen, using the element of surprise, high mobility, ammo/poisons, silence/interrupts/dazes and high burst at the cost of low survivability.
I am endlessly curious to see how Intrepid plan on separating the two, when rogue arrives. Or if we'll end up just having nature ambusher with bow and shadow ambusher with daggers. :]
Marks feel very underwhelming, yet I appreciate them in the sense that they can be used to coordinate burst of the entire group (such as firestarter bandits, clerics in PvP etc) - but the rest of the "death from afar" and hunter theme that Steven has for the ranger (according to the wiki) feels missing. Some kind of Focus resource, reset on marks if the target dies with it and/or some synergy between hunts and marks other than hunts being passive stances would go a long way!
The problem I see right now is that with rangers currently having the class fantasy of an apex predator, we're leaning in very closely to rogue's "ambush, assassination and vanish"-fantasy. The only difference between the two right now (judging by the abilities on the wiki) is that one of them is melee and one is ranged, in my opinion. Both rely on being unseen, using the element of surprise, high mobility, ammo/poisons, silence/interrupts/dazes and high burst at the cost of low survivability.
I am endlessly curious to see how Intrepid plan on separating the two, when rogue arrives. Or if we'll end up just having nature ambusher with bow and shadow ambusher with daggers. :]
Re: Live Streamer Grief-Pulling Mobs for Over a Week
unknowncannibal wrote: »He did this for another 4 more hours last night in Carph tower all streamed btw.
I mean, Ashes is the kind of game where this is perfectly valid gameplay. Right now it is easier than it should be, but that is about it.
What he is saying in shat is also not against the rules at all.
Ashes is a game where you are at the mercy of other players, and they are at your mercy. If someone is stronger than you (or a guild or alliance is stronger than yours) and they don't want you running a piece of content, you won't be running that piece of content.
Right now, this player is stronger than you and doesn't want you running that content.
I have and many other players have killed him, but since the corruption system is stupid and punishes you for killing him (since he's unflagged) he can just run through mobs and run into groups to wipe and not flag at all till everyone's dead and loot them. It doesn't matter if we stop all AoE and healing around him, he just runs it into people and stands there til mobs start hitting other players. This isn't fun in anyway having to deal with this guy.
Re: Love the game, hate the controls
You can do that! Hold right-click and your movement follows the mouse!I want my mouse movement to change my view / direction.
You don't have to do that! Drag the mount to a hotbar slot and presto, you have a keybind to summon/unsummon!I don't want to have to open my Inventory to get my mount then click again to get on it, then faff about trying to dismiss it.
You can rebind any action to any key! (I think; not 100% sure about basic attack but it seems likely)I don't want a separate button, Q, as my first wep choice, then Num keys for the rest.
I want the Map / Inventory, etc "screens" to auto disappear when i move. i could play around with the Bindings, but the basics are obvious. I get the trying to be different model, which may have worked 30 years ago, when I first started MMO's, but nowadays it doesn't wash. "Modern "Players want smooth interactions, not clunky mechanics. I tested ESO before release and played FFX1V at the beginning. Both were, to be polite, appalling. Don't make the same mistakes. i did the Kickstarter, as the game looked worth backing. However, so far, it seems like a waste of money.
This all sounds like beta+ phase polish to be considered later. Not really alpha priority material there.

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