Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Best Of
Re: Servers still not working 3 weeks into Phase 2
I’m sorry this is happening to you, but at this point I’ve made like 10 characters and this hasn’t happened yet
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Re: What are we testing now?
You are testing anything available in game.
If your character has issues with movement or combat, report it. If you see a tree in the middle of the road, report it. If you see mobs not attacks after engaged, report it. If you see a node that cannot be gathered. report it. If you see terrain that is not complete, report it. If you find a quest that does not work, report it. If you find an issue crafting, report it. If you see an issue with pvp, flagging or corruption, report it.
I could go on with a thousand examples, but it really is not needed as your post is not structured in a way that you want guidance, it is more of a complaining post.
As a tester, I have things to report constantly in this alpha so the fact that you have to ask concerns me a bit.
If your character has issues with movement or combat, report it. If you see a tree in the middle of the road, report it. If you see mobs not attacks after engaged, report it. If you see a node that cannot be gathered. report it. If you see terrain that is not complete, report it. If you find a quest that does not work, report it. If you find an issue crafting, report it. If you see an issue with pvp, flagging or corruption, report it.
I could go on with a thousand examples, but it really is not needed as your post is not structured in a way that you want guidance, it is more of a complaining post.
As a tester, I have things to report constantly in this alpha so the fact that you have to ask concerns me a bit.
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Mindful crafting & looking forward - Requesting a list of common crafting recipes.
While doing my artisans over the weekend (farming, alchemy, and cooking), I found myself crafting various recipes but I had no idea if I should keep these components for future recipes or not. Since you unlock new common recipes with each higher tier building and all of these crafting recipes will be widely available on various wikis, codexs, and crafting calculators on the internet; can Intrepid provide these recipes to the player ahead of time?
For example, with a keybind you can open the 'artisans journal' in which it will show all the components needed for apprentice, journeyman, and master common recipes (not recipes that need to be found in the world through exploration). That way crafters can mindfully craft various recipes and save the components if we need to use them later on for higher level crafting.
For example, with a keybind you can open the 'artisans journal' in which it will show all the components needed for apprentice, journeyman, and master common recipes (not recipes that need to be found in the world through exploration). That way crafters can mindfully craft various recipes and save the components if we need to use them later on for higher level crafting.

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Re: Solutions for Steven - Identify Problem, then give solution
You did the maths so dirty, I'll have to go shower after this. Your statistics are disregarding overlap between the categories. For every group that's heavily encompassed by another (and thus creates a disproportionate relationship between the percentage the categories represent within each other compared to what they represent of the entire world) you'd have to nearly disregard those overlapping factors in your calculations, because those people are already nearly encompassed by the previous factor.AirborneBerserker wrote: »You understand that 35K is less then 70k right, also your including a completely different genre of game. Also, also your skipping over the other 5 niches it's not just open world PvP.Ashes of Creation is not meant to be a game for everyone; it's meant to cater to a specific audience that appreciates it's unique mechanics and philosophy."-Steven
The niche isn’t as small as you make it out to be.
"Lineage 2: Reborn," a private server for a game in the genre you claim only has 70k players worldwide, launched a new server right when Alpha 2 Phase 1 started a few months ago. It’s sustaining 12k concurrent players.
That means over a seventh of your estimated global total of people who enjoy "OWPvP" are currently spending their time playing a game from 2003—a game notorious for having some of the worst controls in MMORPG history.
Let me just check EVE Online... Oh, look at that—23k people on the Tranquility server right now. Dead game, huh?
What’s most baffling about your perspective, @AirborneBerserker, is your refusal to acknowledge that it’s okay for Intrepid to take a risk on a niche market.
As players, the most we risk is the cost of some keys and cosmetics. For Steven and Intrepid, the stakes are far higher, and they’ve consistently shown their commitment to seeing this vision through. If Ashes fails, it could have a lasting negative impact on everyone’s careers at Intrepid.
They’re fine with taking that risk. So why do you care what they do, especially if you clearly don’t like Ashes as it’s intended?
Know what I'm just going to break it down for you there are an estimated 3.32 billion people that play games.
MMORPGs account for 3% of the total number of gamers
Hardcore (dropping items on death) account of 5-10% of players
Hard Core (investing large amounts of time) accounts for 10-20%
PvP accounts for 20-30%
Sand box 20-30%
Fantasy accounts for (over) 70%
Guild focused Players account for 50-70%
((3.32x10^9) x .03 x .1 x .2 x .3 x.3 x .7 x .7 = 87,847
That is including all PvPers not open world PvPers. so the number should be smaller. Lets do a quick check though. Since Eve Online is basically the only Sci-Fi OWPvP game there is we can take the number of players multiply it by 3.33 and we should get around 87,847.
23,000 x 3.33 = 76,590
What was it you said? Oh, look at that. Exactly what you would expect the numbers to be since Eve Online probably has 90% of the people interested in a Sci-Fi OWPvP game.
That's especially crucial in the 0.1 and 0.2 factor, at least the higher of which might be nearly eliminated by this overlap. That's nearly an extra 400% on top of your result just from this one cleanup, and if the same applies to several of the other factors to varying degrees (keep in mind this cleanup applies multiplicatively just like the factors in your original calculation), that might be the difference between 100k players and 10 million players.
In other words, these calculations are completely meaningless. You can't use statistics like this. It's not much more meaningful than if I were to say that only 1% of the population are healthcare professionals and only 0.1% of the population have medical college degrees, therefore only 0.001% work as doctors (simplified fake numbers for the sake of simplicity of the example)...
(I'm a little shocked Noaani didn't point this out; feel like this should be his forte. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't read it.)
Part of which is because WoW has tainted the public image of the market and not allowed it to grow into something other than its stereotype. You can't exclude the possibility that another percent or two might simply open up for a new successful game with a different hype and deeper game mechanics. Ashes might not deliver on that, but it shouldn't lead you to forget about the possibility, because otherwise there's no point in ever trying anything new, and you could just go play WoW or forget about the genre.MMORPGs account for 3% of the total number of gamers
Re: AoC isn’t Punishing its Frustrating
The weak don't - yes. The strong persevere. L2 had deleveling and people would lose weeks, if not months of progress after a massive pvp fight for a boss or a certain goal. People still played and fought each other.This isn't good game design. It literally makes for a game where no one is challenging themselves.
And yes, I know your usual repsonse of "people will just go play other games these days".
That's probably because L2 was fun within its niche at the time.
Ashes suffers from the identity crisis of (originally) marketing itself as a game for many types of player to enjoy.
We all know how this part happened, but in the end, that whole 'the strong persevere' thing only happenswhen there is not any other accessible game offering similar experiences while still also giving the 'weak' a place.
I guess you can lmk if you just don't put any stock in the observations of behaviours of competitive players from other genres, but if you do, we now have literal decades of data about it. MMORPGs were the genre 'most lacking' that data because they 'played it safe' for a decade.
Of course there will always be people who push, there are still hundreds of people playing Mortal Online 2 right now.
But Ashes completely lacks the incentive structures required to be terribly different from MO2 at this time, so you will obviously get a lot of people saying 'we should have a less challenging game since you are't actually incentivizing the challenges'.
By this, I mean simply that the strong can easily absorb the strain and challenge associated with exp debt, while the weak suffer disproportionately for trying to get stronger without receiving handouts/pity from them. And that isn't something people like as much. No matter what you remember from the good days, remember that this is not L2, the suffering involved in being weaker is definitively greater.

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Re: Steven handing out the best mounts in the game on stream feels bad
The mounts have this.Norththemage wrote: »Put timers on the mounts then- let it be cool, let the mount not give a permanent advantage.
They will disapear when the server is wiped.

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Re: Solutions for Steven - Identify Problem, then give solution
They’re fine with taking that risk. So why do you care what they do, especially if you clearly don’t like Ashes as it’s intended?
Not wanting to speak for them, but imo this;
AirborneBerserker wrote: »I am 100% fine with people being hopeful and excited about getting a game that caters to them. What I am not okay with is delusions that this game is going to do anything other then crash and burn when 2-4 million people get the game and 99.99% of them leave in the first 3 months.
Is kind of what they are saying.
Translated to looking at it from Intrepids perspective - them taking that risk is fine. People pretending this game is going to be something it absolutely is never going to be, that is not fine.
This is a statement I agree with. People need to be realistic about what Ashes is. It is a game that has promised regional servers it absolutely will not be able to populate. It is a game that has a real chance of collapsing months after launch (I don't personally think it will, but the risk is real). It is a game that is aimed at a very small segment of people, yet is being designed in a way that needs a large population per server. It is a game based on open world PvP as being where the risk comes from, yet discourages open world PvP. It is a game that has a solo friendly end game, yet requires a group to get there in any reasonable amount of time.
I could go on for a while, but the point is thst this game has many flaws - flaws are baked in to the very core of the game. We shouldn't pretend they don't exist. That doesn't help anyone.

2
Re: Solutions for Steven - Identify Problem, then give solution
AirborneBerserker wrote: »More Cult of ashes talk. Just because Steven wants something doesn't mean its good, nor does it mean it will work in the long run. Just because your friend group, who all think alike and like the same things, like the game doesn't mean the majority of people will like this game. Hell of the 2 million people registered on the AoC site most of them will probably leave the game in the first month.
Is this a troll take?
I can't be in the cult because I know that ducks are nasty and shit on everything...
Ashes of Creation is not meant to be a game for everyone; it's meant to cater to a specific audience that appreciates its unique mechanics and philosophy."-Steven
The niche isn’t as small as you make it out to be.
"Lineage 2: Reborn," a private server for a game in the genre you claim only has 70k players worldwide, launched a new server right when Alpha 2 Phase 1 started a few months ago. It’s sustaining 12k concurrent players.
That means over a seventh of your estimated global total of people who enjoy "OWPvP" are currently spending their time playing a game from 2003—a game notorious for having some of the worst controls in MMORPG history.
Let me just check EVE Online... Oh, look at that—23k people on the Tranquility server right now. Dead game, huh?
What’s most baffling about your perspective, @AirborneBerserker, is your refusal to acknowledge that it’s okay for Intrepid to take a risk on a niche market.
As players, the most we risk is the cost of some keys and cosmetics. For Steven and Intrepid, the stakes are far higher, and they’ve consistently shown their commitment to seeing this vision through. If Ashes fails, it could have a lasting negative impact on everyone’s careers at Intrepid.
They’re fine with taking that risk. So why do you care what they do, especially if you clearly don’t like Ashes as it’s intended?

1
Re: Instanced PVP (Arena and/or Battlegrounds)
L2, DAoC, Archeage, Albion, BDO, EVE and Tera all come to mind immediately as games that were absolutely financial successes for their developers.Which ones have been a financial success.
Sure, some of them have closed down, but they closed down after making a shitload of money.
There are some PvP MMO's that have been unsuccessful. I would consider Crowfall to fit in to this. However, there have also been some MMORPG's without a PvP focus that have been unsuccessful, with Vanguard being the current poster child there, and Pantheon likely to be the future one.
Point is, some PvP MMO's have been successful, some have not. Some PvE MMO's have been successful, some have not. As such, this is not a direct contributor to success or failure.

1
Serious concerns! Need Leadership communication!!
Let me first say that I am a big believer in this game and the vision that Steven has for the final product. I love the idea of a player driven economy where players need to work together. The intentional slowing of the game is a good idea. So, in short, I am a huge fan of the game and wish the best for a successful launch with long success.
Now for the concerns…
Keeping in mind that this is an Alpha I have grave concerns about communication of where things are at its current state and whether some things are broken, not fully implemented, or working as intended. My current view is that we are starring down the barrel of a game that will potentially be ruined by social media before it ever has an opportunity to launch. I love a complicated game that rewards hard work; however, the game is so complicated that it might actually be the death of the game. Or... maybe what we are seeing isn’t intended and we just need more communication from the leaders to further explain/expand on what we see now versus what will be.
With that said… here are a few things that I see as very problematic issues in the “current” state.
1) Requestion Agent – In the current state the donation system is overly complicated and confusing to the player base. A player looks at something like “Standard Tools” which are listed as needing 1500. They see that we have only donated maybe 300 and think we are so far away that the goal of 1500 is next to impossible. In reality, we don’t need 1500 but the only person capable of seeing that is the Mayor. This leads to confusion among the players which in turn leads to them making their own conclusions about the goal being so incredibly difficult to attain.
Additionally, the paired donations hinder the success of the system. A player that has copper will most likely not have fish. The player with fish will likely not have copper which leads to neither player donating. This pairing of donation resources further complicates a system that need not be complicated.
Solution: Use the system that is in place for the Construction Manager. The donation system for the Construction Manager is very clear to players. Both the goal (amount needed) and progress are easily understood. A player that has fish can donate the fish without having to worry about another material they do not possess. It also makes it clear to everyone what exactly they need to farm to accomplish the goal.
2) Rarity Level balancing – Rarity of items is a serious issue and a massive bottleneck that is killing crafting in the game. I mentioned this in a post that I tagged Steven in but got no responses from anyone in leadership. My question was whether the system is working as intended and that we are supposed to be stepping up things in a tiered fashion?
Example – Animal fat for hunting is essentially game breaking (or is it?). My theory is that the reason gathers are not seeing heroic or above is that the player rarity numbers aren’t high enough to see it. My thought is the player would first need to craft the uncommon shirt/pants which raises the rarity scale to see more Rare and give a small percentage for heroic. Then crafting Rare to tier up and see more heroic with slight chance at now seeing Epic. If this is intended that is fine, but the players need to know in order to play the game properly. When looking at the pickaxe for example we craft the first apprentice pickaxe with novice level ingredients. We also get additional crafting recipes for pickaxes that have “Rarity” on them; however, the rarity drops are so scarce that we are Journeyman before we even have the resources to make the other pickaxe recipes; thereby, making those irrelevant. The same goes for the clothing.
Partial Solution – Fix rarity drops if they are in a broken or unbalanced state (emphasis on Animal Fat and Weeping Willow). Another thing that could be done to slow things is to not give the clothing when leveling up but instead make it something that needs to be crafted. I personally leveled mining to GrandMaster with the first apprentice pickaxe and the clothing given by the vendor making all the other versions obsolete. Another thing to implement is to make it impossible to get higher levels until they are unlocked. Meaning, cap my xp so it locks at maxed 29 so that I cannot continue leveling to GM with an apprentice tool.
3) Node balancing with buildings – At the end of phase 1 I had been raising the alarm to my guild about the bottleneck faced with Tanned Raptor hides. I knew it was going to be a big issue, but it has been far worst than I predicted. Buildings are just as big an issue and, in another week, the entire server is going to come to a halt (mark my words). Why? The level of complexity in crafting that we face with needing materials from ALL professions is way beyond what it should be at this low level. To craft a Hunting Shirt, we need to get Tanned Raptor hides which is a huge issue just to get considering there are only 5 spawns (complicated further by how hunting drops work for carcasses). To make the “tanned” version the Leatherworker needs to have Weeping Willow and someone to gather/process that extremely rare resource. Then you need a Tailor for bluebell bolts plus further resources from Metalworking and gatherers of metals. All for an apprentice level shirt. Now, in the current state we are gathering Journeyman level metals that can’t be processed along with gems that can’t be cut. All because the building system for nodes is a bit too far in complication. The Mayors have designed a plan to have them in the desert and those nodes are far behind the rest which will bring things to a halt. Since we are reliant on all professions this will halt everything. No progress will be made for I am guessing the better part of 2 weeks at this point. In a game where the design is for everyone to work together this might be doable, but this game isn’t designed to be that way. We have a game that instead pits the nodes against each other. This reliance on needing all professions to make things will further be impacted when we talk about node sieges. Imagine if Halcyon was destroyed and the specializations they had in place where suddenly gone. That would bring down ALL professions because of the overly complicate reliance on all professions to craft something as simple as a shirt/pickaxe at the apprentice/journeyman level. No armorsmith, weaponsmith, or other profession will be able to craft anything at the journeyman level until both Metalworking and Stonemasonry are brought up into play. Even if you get Metalworking leveled up for processing metals you can’t cut gems or make molds. This is going to result in people abandoning the game. I have already heard from multiple hard-core crafters that if things don’t change, they will simply just be gatherers.
Solution: Honestly, I don’t have an answer here, but the overly complicated reliance on all professions needed to craft something at the apprentice/journeyman level is problematic at best.
There are lots of issues and so many things that are in the process of being balanced, designed, and built that don’t rise to the level of concern with the few things I have mentioned above. This is an alpha after all. This is where we raise our concerns in hopes of getting answers, but communication on these issues is a must. I fear that these areas will be used by those in social media to paint a bad picture of the game. We have all seen how social media can kill a great game before it even begins (Narc being the first pebble to be thrown). Some may agree with me and there will certainly be those that do not agree. To that I will emphasize that these are “my” thoughts and concerns of a few issues in the current state of the game.
I hope this gets seen by leaders and for some clarity on what we are seeing now.
Leathal
Now for the concerns…
Keeping in mind that this is an Alpha I have grave concerns about communication of where things are at its current state and whether some things are broken, not fully implemented, or working as intended. My current view is that we are starring down the barrel of a game that will potentially be ruined by social media before it ever has an opportunity to launch. I love a complicated game that rewards hard work; however, the game is so complicated that it might actually be the death of the game. Or... maybe what we are seeing isn’t intended and we just need more communication from the leaders to further explain/expand on what we see now versus what will be.
With that said… here are a few things that I see as very problematic issues in the “current” state.
1) Requestion Agent – In the current state the donation system is overly complicated and confusing to the player base. A player looks at something like “Standard Tools” which are listed as needing 1500. They see that we have only donated maybe 300 and think we are so far away that the goal of 1500 is next to impossible. In reality, we don’t need 1500 but the only person capable of seeing that is the Mayor. This leads to confusion among the players which in turn leads to them making their own conclusions about the goal being so incredibly difficult to attain.
Additionally, the paired donations hinder the success of the system. A player that has copper will most likely not have fish. The player with fish will likely not have copper which leads to neither player donating. This pairing of donation resources further complicates a system that need not be complicated.
Solution: Use the system that is in place for the Construction Manager. The donation system for the Construction Manager is very clear to players. Both the goal (amount needed) and progress are easily understood. A player that has fish can donate the fish without having to worry about another material they do not possess. It also makes it clear to everyone what exactly they need to farm to accomplish the goal.
2) Rarity Level balancing – Rarity of items is a serious issue and a massive bottleneck that is killing crafting in the game. I mentioned this in a post that I tagged Steven in but got no responses from anyone in leadership. My question was whether the system is working as intended and that we are supposed to be stepping up things in a tiered fashion?
Example – Animal fat for hunting is essentially game breaking (or is it?). My theory is that the reason gathers are not seeing heroic or above is that the player rarity numbers aren’t high enough to see it. My thought is the player would first need to craft the uncommon shirt/pants which raises the rarity scale to see more Rare and give a small percentage for heroic. Then crafting Rare to tier up and see more heroic with slight chance at now seeing Epic. If this is intended that is fine, but the players need to know in order to play the game properly. When looking at the pickaxe for example we craft the first apprentice pickaxe with novice level ingredients. We also get additional crafting recipes for pickaxes that have “Rarity” on them; however, the rarity drops are so scarce that we are Journeyman before we even have the resources to make the other pickaxe recipes; thereby, making those irrelevant. The same goes for the clothing.
Partial Solution – Fix rarity drops if they are in a broken or unbalanced state (emphasis on Animal Fat and Weeping Willow). Another thing that could be done to slow things is to not give the clothing when leveling up but instead make it something that needs to be crafted. I personally leveled mining to GrandMaster with the first apprentice pickaxe and the clothing given by the vendor making all the other versions obsolete. Another thing to implement is to make it impossible to get higher levels until they are unlocked. Meaning, cap my xp so it locks at maxed 29 so that I cannot continue leveling to GM with an apprentice tool.
3) Node balancing with buildings – At the end of phase 1 I had been raising the alarm to my guild about the bottleneck faced with Tanned Raptor hides. I knew it was going to be a big issue, but it has been far worst than I predicted. Buildings are just as big an issue and, in another week, the entire server is going to come to a halt (mark my words). Why? The level of complexity in crafting that we face with needing materials from ALL professions is way beyond what it should be at this low level. To craft a Hunting Shirt, we need to get Tanned Raptor hides which is a huge issue just to get considering there are only 5 spawns (complicated further by how hunting drops work for carcasses). To make the “tanned” version the Leatherworker needs to have Weeping Willow and someone to gather/process that extremely rare resource. Then you need a Tailor for bluebell bolts plus further resources from Metalworking and gatherers of metals. All for an apprentice level shirt. Now, in the current state we are gathering Journeyman level metals that can’t be processed along with gems that can’t be cut. All because the building system for nodes is a bit too far in complication. The Mayors have designed a plan to have them in the desert and those nodes are far behind the rest which will bring things to a halt. Since we are reliant on all professions this will halt everything. No progress will be made for I am guessing the better part of 2 weeks at this point. In a game where the design is for everyone to work together this might be doable, but this game isn’t designed to be that way. We have a game that instead pits the nodes against each other. This reliance on needing all professions to make things will further be impacted when we talk about node sieges. Imagine if Halcyon was destroyed and the specializations they had in place where suddenly gone. That would bring down ALL professions because of the overly complicate reliance on all professions to craft something as simple as a shirt/pickaxe at the apprentice/journeyman level. No armorsmith, weaponsmith, or other profession will be able to craft anything at the journeyman level until both Metalworking and Stonemasonry are brought up into play. Even if you get Metalworking leveled up for processing metals you can’t cut gems or make molds. This is going to result in people abandoning the game. I have already heard from multiple hard-core crafters that if things don’t change, they will simply just be gatherers.
Solution: Honestly, I don’t have an answer here, but the overly complicated reliance on all professions needed to craft something at the apprentice/journeyman level is problematic at best.
There are lots of issues and so many things that are in the process of being balanced, designed, and built that don’t rise to the level of concern with the few things I have mentioned above. This is an alpha after all. This is where we raise our concerns in hopes of getting answers, but communication on these issues is a must. I fear that these areas will be used by those in social media to paint a bad picture of the game. We have all seen how social media can kill a great game before it even begins (Narc being the first pebble to be thrown). Some may agree with me and there will certainly be those that do not agree. To that I will emphasize that these are “my” thoughts and concerns of a few issues in the current state of the game.
I hope this gets seen by leaders and for some clarity on what we are seeing now.
Leathal
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