We need to talk about animation design

About what I've seen <a href="https://youtu.be/44HChA1Kkfk">until now in AoC</a>

Perfect. Good and intelligent mechanics are fundamental but please do not forget to improve the animations. They need to be fluid, natural. The characters should look "alive" and not articulate plastic dolls that walk light on the surfaces. There is no excuse that the animations are still "pre-alpha". A "Pixar" style animation should be the minimum reference: the starting point. Without this care "AoC" runs the risk of being just another MMO like any other.

Watch this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FMAZh1m3Y">2012 alpha footage </a>

Perfeito. Mecânicas boas e inteligentes são fundamentais mas por favor não esqueçam de aprimorar as animações. Elas precisam ser fluidas, naturais. Os personagens devem parecer "vivos" e não bonecos de plástico articulados que caminham sem peso sobre as superfícies. Não há desculpa de que as animações ainda são "pre-alpha". Uma animação estilo "Pixar" deve ser a referência mínima: o ponto de partida. Sem este cuidado "AoC" corre o risco de ser apenas mais um MMO como outro qualquer.
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Comments

  • I agree. Motion capture is great for animations. Already though Aoc animations are far superior to Coe.
  • [quote quote=11281]I agree. Motion capture is great for animations. Already though Aoc animations are far superior to Coe.

    [/quote]

    Yes I agree. But I think both AoC and CoE are not investing in animation. This is worrying. It makes no sense that 2012 games like AA, GW2. Tera (or WoW) have higher quality animation than a 2017 game like AoC or CoE.
  • As someone who works on a game that uses extensive use of motion capture for animations, it's not a be all end all. You can have better looking animations created by animators. Given the nature of the game, and the number of fantasy creatures that can't be mo-capped, trying to mix the two would be a pain.

    Regarding the level of animation right now, consider how early it is in the game, there's a lot of time to be spent making them better.
  • I too fear a bit for the overall animation quality. I understand that it is an extremely early stage of development and that all animations are only placeholders, but I've had enough experience of hearing this and seeing a similar final product to what I saw on alpha footage. I much agree with you when you say that animation quality if one of the biggest visual aspects of the game, to be it even beats graphic fidelity, I'd rather have good animations and average graphics than great graphics and clunky animations.
  • [quote quote=11278]About what I’ve seen <a href="https://youtu.be/44HChA1Kkfk" rel="nofollow">until now in AoC</a>

    Perfect. Good and intelligent mechanics are fundamental but please do not forget to improve the animations. They need to be fluid, natural. The characters should look “alive” and not articulate plastic dolls that walk light on the surfaces. There is no excuse that the animations are still “pre-alpha”. A “Pixar” style animation should be the minimum reference: the starting point. Without this care “AoC” runs the risk of being just another MMO like any other.

    Watch this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FMAZh1m3Y" rel="nofollow">2012 alpha footage </a>

    Perfeito. Mecânicas boas e inteligentes são fundamentais mas por favor não esqueçam de aprimorar as animações. Elas precisam ser fluidas, naturais. Os personagens devem parecer “vivos” e não bonecos de plástico articulados que caminham sem peso sobre as superfícies. Não há desculpa de que as animações ainda são “pre-alpha”. Uma animação estilo “Pixar” deve ser a referência mínima: o ponto de partida. Sem este cuidado “AoC” corre o risco de ser apenas mais um MMO como outro qualquer.

    [/quote]

    I see where you are coming from, but at the same time I think it's unrealistic to expect an mmorpg to have the same flawless animation as you see in a single-player title like Assassin's Creed. Even in the video you linked, yes the main character's animations are amazing, but the NPCs, particularly in the combat sections, are very clunky by comparison. Now think about a game where during a siege you could have 300+ players all fighting in a single screen, and imagine trying to get that same level of quality animation. Even if you could do it, it would mean a lot of players would get a very laggy experience while the game tries to render all those fluid actions and movements in real time.

    I don't know about you but I'd rather have a game that ran smoothly with slightly less good animations, than a laggy game with amazing animations.
  • [quote quote=11427]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11278" rel="nofollow">kntzen wrote:</a></div>
    About what I’ve seen <a href="https://youtu.be/44HChA1Kkfk" rel="nofollow">until now in AoC</a>

    Perfect. Good and intelligent mechanics are fundamental but please do not forget to improve the animations. They need to be fluid, natural. The characters should look “alive” and not articulate plastic dolls that walk light on the surfaces. There is no excuse that the animations are still “pre-alpha”. A “Pixar” style animation should be the minimum reference: the starting point. Without this care “AoC” runs the risk of being just another MMO like any other.

    Watch this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FMAZh1m3Y" rel="nofollow">2012 alpha footage </a>

    Perfeito. Mecânicas boas e inteligentes são fundamentais mas por favor não esqueçam de aprimorar as animações. Elas precisam ser fluidas, naturais. Os personagens devem parecer “vivos” e não bonecos de plástico articulados que caminham sem peso sobre as superfícies. Não há desculpa de que as animações ainda são “pre-alpha”. Uma animação estilo “Pixar” deve ser a referência mínima: o ponto de partida. Sem este cuidado “AoC” corre o risco de ser apenas mais um MMO como outro qualquer.

    </blockquote>
    I see where you are coming from, but at the same time I think it’s unrealistic to expect an mmorpg to have the same flawless animation as you see in a single-player title like Assassin’s Creed. Even in the video you linked, yes the main character’s animations are amazing, but the NPCs, particularly in the combat sections, are very clunky by comparison. Now think about a game where during a siege you could have 300+ players all fighting in a single screen, and imagine trying to get that same level of quality animation. Even if you could do it, it would mean a lot of players would get a very laggy experience while the game tries to render all those fluid actions and movements in real time.

    I don’t know about you but I’d rather have a game that ran smoothly with slightly less good animations, than a laggy game with amazing animations.

    [/quote]
    This reply says most of what I wish to say. The team are building so many mechanics, It's hard to nail them all to the level you wish. and assume they did, would your graphics card be able to handle such stuff? what about your CPU? RAM?ROM? internet?
    I'm ok with slightly less fluid animations, and plastic-like moving objects, for a game that is not going to overload my computer if I run it. Second, Avatars, armors, weapons, amongst other things are integral part of MMOs. that's what make you different from everyone else. they will have to program each and every one of them. Even if they used recursions, that's still a shit ton of coding to do.
    last, let's not forget this is a dynamic world. Which means they have to develop like 100x what you see in Assassin's creed or whatever that is. I'm sure they'll improve it over time, but give them some breathing space, all right? Also, you wanted a fluid, normal movements, not like plastic dolls. honestly, you see it that way, but for me, that is still a big improvement from MMOs that which would have your cape flip 90 degrees when you took two steps. I agree some things certainly need to change. like for example, did you see the rocks in the mage video? they were bouncing about like rubber lumps. they certainly were recursing the same values just for the footage, they'll change it later.
  • <em>[quote quote=11472]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11427" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11278" rel="nofollow">kntzen wrote:</a></div>
    About what I’ve seen <a href="https://youtu.be/44HChA1Kkfk" rel="nofollow">until now in AoC</a>

    Watch this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FMAZh1m3Y" rel="nofollow">2012 alpha footage </a>

    </blockquote>
    I see where you are coming from, but at the same time I think it’s unrealistic to expect an mmorpg to have the same flawless animation as you see in a single-player title like Assassin’s Creed. Even in the video you linked, yes the main character’s animations are amazing, but the NPCs, particularly in the combat sections, are very clunky by comparison. Now think about a game where during a siege you could have 300+ players all fighting in a single screen, and imagine trying to get that same level of quality animation. Even if you could do it, it would mean a lot of players would get a very laggy experience while the game tries to render all those fluid actions and movements in real time.
    </blockquote>

    This reply says most of what I wish to say. The team are building so many mechanics, It’s hard to nail them all to the level you wish. and assume they did, would your graphics card be able to handle such stuff? what about your CPU? RAM?ROM? internet?.

    [/quote]</em>

    Friends,

    I have drawn attention to the issue of animation precisely because it is the worrying factor. The mechanics and the news of AoC are OK, but the animation is not OK when compared to games of 2012. The Assassin's Creed video was just one example among others cited as ArcheAge, GuildWars2, WoW, Tera. AoC does not need to compete with <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhBKHWk661M">Black Desert</a>, an example of state-of-the-art animation, but AoC needs to be careful for delivering the most basic aesthetics to promote true immersion and attract players.
  • <em>[quote quote=11472]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11427" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11278" rel="nofollow">kntzen wrote:</a></div>

    About what I’ve seen <a href="https://youtu.be/44HChA1Kkfk" rel="nofollow">until now in AoC</a>
    Watch this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FMAZh1m3Y" rel="nofollow">2012 alpha footage </a>

    </blockquote>
    I see where you are coming from, but at the same time I think it’s unrealistic to expect an mmorpg to have the same flawless animation as you see in a single-player title like Assassin’s Creed. Even in the video you linked, yes the main character’s animations are amazing, but the NPCs, particularly in the combat sections, are very clunky by comparison. Now think about a game where during a siege you could have 300+ players all fighting in a single screen, and imagine trying to get that same level of quality animation. Even if you could do it, it would mean a lot of players would get a very laggy experience while the game tries to render all those fluid actions and movements in real time.
    </blockquote>

    This reply says most of what I wish to say. The team are building so many mechanics, It’s hard to nail them all to the level you wish. and assume they did, would your graphics card be able to handle such stuff? what about your CPU? RAM?ROM? internet?.

    [/quote]</em>

    I have drawn attention to the issue of animation precisely because it is the worrying factor. The mechanics and the news of AoC are OK, but the animation is not OK when compared to games of 2012. The Assassin's Creed video was just one example among others cited as ArcheAge, GuildWars2, WoW, Tera. AoC does not need to compete with <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhBKHWk661M">Black Desert</a>, an example of <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-PkDI7K_q0">state-of-the-art animation</a> in MMOs, but AoC needs to be careful for delivering the most basic aesthetics to promote true immersion and attract players.
  • I'm sorry but on every game i've worked usually character and monster animations where one of the last steps that got improved after implementing the very first versions.

    Almost everything we where able to see until now is video material that you usually wont be able to see at all from most other companies at the current state of the game.

    They are still sharing concept art of general character design and implementing a final version of character animations when the overall character design isnt even done is pointless anyway unless you want to rework the entire thing over and over again.

    And btw Black Desert had similar animations until they implemented there final patch pre-alpha that also included there new engine that they build from scratch.

    If the character animations are like that during the entire Alpha.. yes then it's bad.
    But pre-alpha only a hand full of games have decent animations.
  • <em>[quote quote=11472]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11427" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11278" rel="nofollow">kntzen wrote:</a></div>
    About what I’ve seen <a href="https://youtu.be/44HChA1Kkfk" rel="nofollow">until now in AoC</a>

    Watch this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-FMAZh1m3Y" rel="nofollow">2012 alpha footage </a>

    </blockquote>
    I see where you are coming from, but at the same time I think it’s unrealistic to expect an mmorpg to have the same flawless animation as you see in a single-player title like Assassin’s Creed. Even in the video you linked, yes the main character’s animations are amazing, but the NPCs, particularly in the combat sections, are very clunky by comparison. Now think about a game where during a siege you could have 300+ players all fighting in a single screen, and imagine trying to get that same level of quality animation. Even if you could do it, it would mean a lot of players would get a very laggy experience while the game tries to render all those fluid actions and movements in real time.
    </blockquote>

    This reply says most of what I wish to say. The team are building so many mechanics, It’s hard to nail them all to the level you wish. and assume they did, would your graphics card be able to handle such stuff? what about your CPU? RAM?ROM? internet?.

    [/quote]</em>

    Friends,

    I have drawn attention to the issue of animation precisely because it is the worrying factor. The mechanics and the news of AoC are OK, but the animation is not OK when compared to games of 2012. The Assassin's Creed video was just one example among others cited as ArcheAge, GuildWars2, WoW, Tera. AoC does not need to compete with <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhBKHWk661M">Black Desert</a>, an example of state-of-the-art animation in nowadays MMOs, but AoC needs to be careful for delivering the most basic aesthetics to promote true immersion and attract players.
  • If the animations are still shitty when the game finishes, complain then. Choosing to compare to projects none of us have any real understanding of in both management and scope accomplishes nothing.
  • It is pre- alpha, they have stated again and again that those are only placeholder animations to have something working to show.
    The same goes for the UI it is a placeholder. If you cared enough you would have browsed a little, this kind of thread along with UI complains are the most common reoccuring one and is basicly findable on every page.

    So no there is nothing to talk about, it's a placeholder in pre-alpha, not the finished product.
  • I wouldnt worry.
    Animations are just a file that can be overwritten.
    These animations can also be 'merged' together for seamless transitions.

    What you see is place holders.
    I dont expect them to be permanent and they can be easily changed.

    The AI paths too can be filleted curves instead of right angled straight lines :D
    For now, straight lines and right angles are sufficient.
  • [quote quote=11638]I wouldnt worry.
    Animations are just a file that can be overwritten.
    These animations can also be ‘merged’ together for seamless transitions.

    What you see is place holders.
    I dont expect them to be permanent and they can be easily changed.

    The AI paths too can be filleted curves instead of right angled straight lines <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f600.svg" />
    For now, straight lines and right angles are sufficient.

    [/quote]

    Friends,

    I am an investor and, eventually, I have been collaborating with games development for years. From my experience, the most successful games "hit" the "animation" item. It is not just about style, but about aesthetic sensibility. Because animation is what determines the actual interactivity between player and interface overcoming mechanics.

    Contrary to what you can think, "mechanics" are just scripts, programming details that can be changed at any time, while "animations" can not be changed quickly because they are part of the core of a game. Concept Art + Animations are equivalent to the identity of a game. Or a videogame "hits the mark" in concept art + animation since beginnings or it may give up.

    <em>Today, gamers find themselves in fully rendered CG worlds, competing in increasingly complex missions with more believable characters. This is where character animation specifically comes in to play: By creating greater empathy for the character, gamers become more involved in the game. "The uniqueness of gaming compared to other media is that we can not just relate to the hero, but we actually become the hero," says <a href="http://Http://www.animationarena.com/character-animation.html">Olivier Ladeuix, Animation Mentor graduate and former animator at Rare / Microsoft Game Studio.</a></em>

    At the time of investing in a game I have know the backstage of its production. I was worried because AoC has many interesting new ideas but if neglected in the presentation of the game with images of concept art somewhat amateur and with videos of gameplay with characters moving without context, without articulation. Later I learned that there was only ONE <a href="http://learn.org/articles/What_is_an_Animation_Designer.html">animation designer </a>on the team. Probably already hired more, which is good.

    However, the fact that AoC developers show public videos with poor animations left me worried about the development of the game.

    If the developer's concern is to "fix" the animation instead of giving it priority, then it may be that we have a promising video game that will not match the expectations of the potential players. I don't want this. I want Aoc become a successful game.

    I hope you want the same too.
  • [quote quote=11638]I wouldnt worry.
    Animations are just a file that can be overwritten.
    These animations can also be ‘merged’ together for seamless transitions.

    What you see is place holders.
    I dont expect them to be permanent and they can be easily changed.

    The AI paths too can be filleted curves instead of right angled straight lines <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f600.svg" />
    For now, straight lines and right angles are sufficient.

    [/quote]

    Friends,

    I am an investor and, eventually, I have been collaborating with games development for years. From my experience, the most successful games "hit" the "animation" item. It is not just about style, but about aesthetic sensibility. Because animation is what determines the actual interactivity between player and interface overcoming mechanics.

    Contrary to what you can think, "mechanics" are just scripts, programming details that can be changed at any time, while "animations" can not be changed quickly because they are part of the core of a game. Concept Art + Animations are equivalent to the identity of a game. Or a videogame "hits the mark" in concept art + animation since beginnings or it may give up.

    <em>Today, gamers find themselves in fully rendered CG worlds, competing in increasingly complex missions with more believable characters. This is where character animation specifically comes in to play: By creating greater empathy for the character, gamers become more involved in the game. "The uniqueness of gaming compared to other media is that we can not just relate to the hero, but we actually become the hero," says <a href="http://Http://www.animationarena.com/character-animation.html">Olivier Ladeuix, Animation Mentor graduate and former animator at Rare / Microsoft Game Studio.</a></em>

    At the time of investing in a game I have know the backstage of its production. I was worried because AoC has many interesting new ideas but if neglected in the presentation of the game with images of concept art somewhat amateur and with videos of gameplay with characters moving without context, without articulation. Later I learned that there was only ONE <a href="http://learn.org/articles/What_is_an_Animation_Designer.html">animation designer </a>on the team. Probably already hired more, which is good.

    However, the fact AoC show public videos with poor animations left me worried about the development of the game.

    If the developer's concern is to "fix" the animation instead of giving it priority, then it may be that we have a promising video game that will not match the expectations of the potential players. I don't want this. I want Aoc become a successful game.

    I hope you want the same too.
  • Friends,

    I am an investor and, eventually, I have been collaborating with games development for years. From my experience, the most successful games "hit" the "animation" item. It is not just about style, but about aesthetic sensibility. Because animation is what determines the actual interactivity between player and interface overcoming mechanics.

    Contrary to what you can think, "mechanics" are just scripts, programming details that can be changed at any time, while "animations" can not be changed quickly because they are part of the core of a game. Concept Art + Animations are equivalent to the identity of a game. Or a videogame "hits the mark" in concept art + animation since beginnings or it may give up.

    <em>Today, gamers find themselves in fully rendered CG worlds, competing in increasingly complex missions with more believable characters. This is where character animation specifically comes in to play: By creating greater empathy for the character, gamers become more involved in the game. "The uniqueness of gaming compared to other media is that we can not just relate to the hero, but we actually become the hero," says <a href="http://Http://www.animationarena.com/character-animation.html">Olivier Ladeuix, Animation Mentor graduate and former animator at Rare / Microsoft Game Studio.</a></em>

    At the time of investing in a game I have know the backstage of its production. I am worried because AoC has many interesting new ideas but neglected in the presentation of the game with images of concept art somewhat amateur and with videos of gameplay with characters moving without context, without articulation. Later I learned that there was only ONE <a href="http://learn.org/articles/What_is_an_Animation_Designer.html">animation designer </a>on the team. Probably already hired more, which is good.

    However, the fact of AoC developers show public videos with poor animations left me worried about the development of the game.

    If the developer's concern is to "fix" the animation instead of giving it priority, then it may be that we have a promising video game that will not match the expectations of the potential players. I don't want this. I want Aoc become a successful game.

    I hope you want the same too.
  • Stop complaining about the animations. You compare the animations to MMORPGS that have $100,000,000+ Budgets. Ashes Does not have a budget even half of what other MMORPGs have. The Graphics are good enough and can improve over time. It is not a high priority vs content and game systems that make the game fun.
  • Lets make a list.

    Make sure we actually use staffs and spellblades and books in spellcasting like Rift.
    I'd like to have animated emotes all of the emotes, let me high five and hug people if you want to go crazy.
    Differences depending on movement speed.
    Amazing combat animations.
    Getting on horse and such animations.
    Animations for interacting with things.
    Animations for crafting things.
    Animations for looking at map etc.
    Animations for spyglasses and other items you can carry.
    Animations for <del datetime="2017-04-26T12:58:07+00:00">torturing someone in your sex dungeon</del> flirting. ~.^
    Animations for mood that persist and can be set for every situation like combat or riding a horse.
    Animations for idling.
    Animations for sailing and such w/e that comes out.

    Feel free to add your own! ^^
  • [quote quote=11676]Stop complaining about the animations. You compare the animations to MMORPGS that have $100,000,000+ Budgets. Ashes Does not have a budget even half of what other MMORPGs have. The Graphics are good enough and can improve over time. It is not a high priority vs content and game systems that make the game fun.

    [/quote]

    Friend,

    KickStarter begins 1st May. <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/">https://www.ashesofcreation.com/</a>
    My money deserves better animation design.
  • [quote quote=11692]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11676" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    Stop complaining about the animations. You compare the animations to MMORPGS that have $100,000,000+ Budgets. Ashes Does not have a budget even half of what other MMORPGs have. The Graphics are good enough and can improve over time. It is not a high priority vs content and game systems that make the game fun.

    </blockquote>
    Friend,

    KickStarter begins 1st May. <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.ashesofcreation.com/</a>
    My money deserves better animation design.

    [/quote]

    Your $500 will not help get the budget large enough to spend endlessly on everything every player wants. You dont like the Animations then thats OK. Dont spend the money, then just wait and see. Personally I am on the Fence for the Kickstarter because I do not trust their direction with Gear and Crafting. To me its not enough saying we are going to be having a balance between crafted gear and Dungeon Gear. Guess what every game that has done that ended up with a Gear Treadmill. If they end up with a Gear Treadmill I am just going to say in FFXIV or I might go play Pantheon.

    When it comes to Animations that will cost a lot of money to spent more time on to make it up to the standards of FFXIV. If they did that and made every other part of the game a pile of shit who the hell would play. If the Animations which are good enough right now but they spent the time on the game systems and making the game fun people will play. There can be more game systems and things to do in the game with a lot less money than spending time on Animations, which if fairly successful can be cleaned up a lot later.

    Honestly saying "My money deserves better animation design." is you thinking that your going to be the only person or an elite group of investors and you ave a say on exactly what they work on. Having hot chicks with big tits that old men fantasize about will not make this game successful. Look what a few Asian games tried to do with great graphics, out side of that the games were a pile of shit that no one wants to play now.

    Also your arguments could use come refinement. First comparing a MMORPG that might have 50 Million tops in total investments vs GW, ESO, WOW, and the list of MMORPGs that have Multi hundreds of Millions of dollars in investments is pointless. There is no comparison. Its like saying why does Cuba not have the same powerful economy that the US does. Second if you want to compare Ashes graphics to another Kick Starter MMORPG Graphics look at Pantheon as an example. They are about the same and they are both focusing on content and game systems vs Graphics.


    In the end. State your piece, come up with a logical argument and if you dont see what you like. Don't invest in the kickstarter. Again I am personally on the fence. The ONLY way I can see Gear being more focused on killing bosses is if they focus on Pantheon type of gearing system where it will take you maybe 6+ months to get your gear and you will spend a year or more with that piece of gear. But then they will kill crafting all together unless that gear is used to made to fill the gap with gear. In the end I may not pay into the kickstarter, or I may hold off.
  • [quote quote=11701]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-11692" rel="nofollow">kntzen wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11676" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    Stop complaining about the animations. You compare the animations to MMORPGS that have $100,000,000+ Budgets. Ashes Does not have a budget even half of what other MMORPGs have. The Graphics are good enough and can improve over time. It is not a high priority vs content and game systems that make the game fun.

    </blockquote>
    Friend,

    KickStarter begins 1st May. <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.ashesofcreation.com/</a>
    My money deserves better animation design.

    </blockquote>
    Your $500 will not help get the budget large enough to spend endlessly on everything every player wants. You dont like the Animations then thats OK. Dont spend the money, then just wait and see. Personally I am on the Fence for the Kickstarter because I do not trust their direction with Gear and Crafting. To me its not enough saying we are going to be having a balance between crafted gear and Dungeon Gear. Guess what every game that has done that ended up with a Gear Treadmill. If they end up with a Gear Treadmill I am just going to say in FFXIV or I might go play Pantheon.

    ...

    In the end. State your piece, come up with a logical argument and if you dont see what you like. Don’t invest in the kickstarter. Again I am personally on the fence. The ONLY way I can see Gear being more focused on killing bosses is if they focus on Pantheon type of gearing system where it will take you maybe 6+ months to get your gear and you will spend a year or more with that piece of gear. But then they will kill crafting all together unless that gear is used to made to fill the gap with gear. In the end I may not pay into the kickstarter, or I may hold off.

    [/quote]

    You are on the fence.
    I have my feet on the ground.
    I am an optimistic.

    Listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COUaNmm53VA
  • [quote quote=11730]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-11701" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-11692" rel="nofollow">kntzen wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/#post-11676" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    Stop complaining about the animations. You compare the animations to MMORPGS that have $100,000,000+ Budgets. Ashes Does not have a budget even half of what other MMORPGs have. The Graphics are good enough and can improve over time. It is not a high priority vs content and game systems that make the game fun.

    </blockquote>
    Friend,

    KickStarter begins 1st May. <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.ashesofcreation.com/</a>
    My money deserves better animation design.

    </blockquote>
    Your $500 will not help get the budget large enough to spend endlessly on everything every player wants. You dont like the Animations then thats OK. Dont spend the money, then just wait and see. Personally I am on the Fence for the Kickstarter because I do not trust their direction with Gear and Crafting. To me its not enough saying we are going to be having a balance between crafted gear and Dungeon Gear. Guess what every game that has done that ended up with a Gear Treadmill. If they end up with a Gear Treadmill I am just going to say in FFXIV or I might go play Pantheon.



    In the end. State your piece, come up with a logical argument and if you dont see what you like. Don’t invest in the kickstarter. Again I am personally on the fence. The ONLY way I can see Gear being more focused on killing bosses is if they focus on Pantheon type of gearing system where it will take you maybe 6+ months to get your gear and you will spend a year or more with that piece of gear. But then they will kill crafting all together unless that gear is used to made to fill the gap with gear. In the end I may not pay into the kickstarter, or I may hold off.

    </blockquote>
    You are on the fence.
    I have my feet on the ground.
    I am an optimistic.

    Listen: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COUaNmm53VA" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COUaNmm53VA</a>

    [/quote]
    and yet you sound like a total and complete pessimist.
    I'll just say this, if you are one of those players who complain endlessly about every flaw you see, just shut up. don't destroy others' enjoyment. that's it. now stop acting like a whiny kid. Steven is a gamer, he knows what to work around, and probably how to work around it. the game is in good hands. calm down
  • [quote quote=11678]Lets make a list.

    <em>Make sure we actually use staffs and spellblades and books in spellcasting like Rift.
    I’d like to have animated emotes all of the emotes, let me high five and hug people if you want to go crazy.
    Differences depending on movement speed.
    Amazing combat animations.
    Getting on horse and such animations.
    Animations for interacting with things.
    Animations for crafting things.
    Animations for looking at map etc.
    Animations for spyglasses and other items you can carry.
    Animations for <del datetime="2017-04-26T12:58:07+00:00">torturing someone in your sex dungeon</del> flirting. ~.^
    Animations for mood that persist and can be set for every situation like combat or riding a horse.
    Animations for idling.
    Animations for sailing and such w/e that comes out.

    Feel free to add your own! ^^</em>

    [/quote]

    First they need to correct and improve the animations of walking, running, stopping, falling, jumping and, of course, as you said, amazing combat animations. :)
  • [quote quote=11788]<blockquote>

    <em>and yet you sound like a total and complete pessimist.
    I’ll just say this, if you are one of those players who complain endlessly about every flaw you see, just shut up. don’t destroy others’ enjoyment. that’s it. now stop acting like a whiny kid. Steven is a gamer, he knows what to work around, and probably how to work around it. the game is in good hands. calm down</em>

    [/quote]

    Dude, what you think about me makes no difference in reality. You're the one whining and complaining on constructive criticism that is intended to help the game, help developers to follow a more efficient way for the success. If you do not help, do not hinder those who collaborate with good advice. Be happy.
  • [quote quote=11987]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-11788" rel="nofollow">Irobot wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <em>and yet you sound like a total and complete pessimist.
    I’ll just say this, if you are one of those players who complain endlessly about every flaw you see, just shut up. don’t destroy others’ enjoyment. that’s it. now stop acting like a whiny kid. Steven is a gamer, he knows what to work around, and probably how to work around it. the game is in good hands. calm down</em>

    </blockquote>
    Dude, what you think about me makes no difference in reality. You’re the one whining and complaining on constructive criticism that is intended to help the game, help developers to follow a more efficient way for the success. If you do not help, do not hinder those who collaborate with good advice. Be happy.
    </blockquote>
    [/quote]

    I hate to say it but Kzten he is right. Your complaining about something so minor and trying to compare the game to another game that has been out for what is going on 14 year. I told you people are more focused game play which is the most important part of Ashes. Yet you feel that game play can suck if the Graphics are good. Yet other MMORPGS done that and they all failed.

    You need to get off your horse. I do agree that graphics need work; BUT it is not a high priority, and it can get fixed over the next year which this game is not going to fully release until 2019. That is what 20 months to work on game systems and graphics and everything else?
  • [quote quote=12014]<blockquote>

    You need to get off your horse. I do agree that graphics need work; BUT it is not a high priority, and it can get fixed over the next year which this game is not going to fully release until 2019. That is what 20 months to work on game systems and graphics and everything else?

    [/quote]

    Yeah, I'm not the one complaining or crying. So far, only you and your friend have decided to fight me just because I have a different point of view. Be reasonable and civilized, please.

    Mechanics can be changed at any time, MMOs live on it and change them every six months. It's just market.

    What does not change from one hour to another is precisely the basis of the game, its aesthetic synergy, its main selling point as its differential.

    This is the case of AoC, so far I've seen investment in mechanics (intentions) and videos that show no mechanics but show carelessness in visual finishing.

    The fact is that if there is no discernment to show an animation that is consistent with the demand, there may be no discernment in the other stages of the game.

    Again, if you do not have anything to contribute to improve the game, do not get caught up in the conversation I started.

    Get out.

    PS.: Come back here only after studying a lot about art concept and animation design in video games. Meanwhile, see another good example of a game developed by only three people. http://fenixfire.com/games/osiris-new-dawn/
  • [quote quote=12014]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-11987" rel="nofollow">kntzen wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-11788" rel="nofollow">Irobot wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <em>and yet you sound like a total and complete pessimist.
    I’ll just say this, if you are one of those players who complain endlessly about every flaw you see, just shut up. don’t destroy others’ enjoyment. that’s it. now stop acting like a whiny kid. Steven is a gamer, he knows what to work around, and probably how to work around it. the game is in good hands. calm down</em>

    </blockquote>
    Dude, what you think about me makes no difference in reality. You’re the one whining and complaining on constructive criticism that is intended to help the game, help developers to follow a more efficient way for the success. If you do not help, do not hinder those who collaborate with good advice. Be happy.

    </blockquote>
    </blockquote>
    I hate to say it but Kzten he is right. Your complaining about something so minor and trying to compare the game to another game that has been out for what is going on 14 year. I told you people are more focused game play which is the most important part of Ashes. Yet you feel that game play can suck if the Graphics are good. Yet other MMORPGS done that and they all failed.

    You need to get off your horse. I do agree that graphics need work; BUT it is not a high priority, and it can get fixed over the next year which this game is not going to fully release until 2019. That is what 20 months to work on game systems and graphics and everything else?

    [/quote]
    well, also one more thing, if you are dissatisfied with the animations even after it is out(highly unlikely in the first place), just send a request to the development team. they will keep developing the game even after the release, to keep in new content and everything. If they get enough requests they'll upgrade it. now just calm down.
    Also, If you look at the animations, it's honestly quite clear to me they finished only partially and copy pasted it everywhere for the videos. *cough*rock physics*cough*
  • Dearest community, be excellent to each other.
  • [quote quote=12084]Dearest community, be excellent to each other.

    [/quote]

    Dear Tholren, I sincerely believe that people who appear here to attack me rather than collaborate represent the most toxic in gaming communities. They do not present ideas, they do not suggest, they only lend themselves to impediments and, deep down, they only want the failure of the game.

    I want AoC to be a success, do not you want to?
  • [quote quote=12078]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-12014" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    You need to get off your horse. I do agree that graphics need work; BUT it is not a high priority, and it can get fixed over the next year which this game is not going to fully release until 2019. That is what 20 months to work on game systems and graphics and everything else?

    </blockquote>
    Yeah, I’m not the one complaining or crying. So far, only you and your friend have decided to fight me just because I have a different point of view. Be reasonable and civilized, please.

    Mechanics can be changed at any time, MMOs live on it and change them every six months. It’s just market.

    What does not change from one hour to another is precisely the basis of the game, its aesthetic synergy, its main selling point as its differential.

    This is the case of AoC, so far I’ve seen investment in mechanics (intentions) and videos that show no mechanics but show carelessness in visual finishing.

    The fact is that if there is no discernment to show an animation that is consistent with the demand, there may be no discernment in the other stages of the game.

    Again, if you do not have anything to contribute to improve the game, do not get caught up in the conversation I started.

    Get out.

    PS.: Come back here only after studying a lot about art concept and animation design in video games. Meanwhile, see another good example of a game developed by only three people. <a href="http://fenixfire.com/games/osiris-new-dawn/" rel="nofollow">http://fenixfire.com/games/osiris-new-dawn/</a>
    </blockquote>
    [/quote]
    I will not deny that there are other games that are out that easily match or surpass this, and also admit that if I did so I would probably be considered crazy. however steven's intentions are very clear, he wants the hype train started very early, I personally think he definitely overdid it, but I'll say this. the game still has at least a year more of development to be done. don't you think you are being a bit too harsh?
    you missed @Helzbelz's and my point completely. we are not saying you are wrong, we are asking you to just give the developers some breathing space.they'll improve it.
    [quote quote=12088]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-12084" rel="nofollow">Tholren wrote:</a></div>
    Dearest community, be excellent to each other.

    </blockquote>
    Dear Tholren, I sincerely believe that people who appear here to attack me rather than collaborate represent the most toxic in gaming communities. They do not present ideas, they do not suggest, they only lend themselves to impediments and, deep down, they only want the failure of the game.

    I want AoC to be a success, do not you want to?

    [/quote]
    with all due respect, what I criticised is not your ideas but your harshness in judgement, given how early it is in development.
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