I understand how you felt attacked, indeed demonstrating the community's preferences early on in development is important to help developers prioritize certain aspects. I personally would much prefer that an extra effort be put to animations than almost any other visual aspect of the game. I'm sure that you can understand how some people who are passionate about the project might feel that you're passing premature and harsh judgement on a work in progress, which is why you clashed a bit with other's on this particular discussion. I'm not pointing fingers nor taking sides, just trying to understand where everyone is coming from. In the end, I'm just advocating for healthier discussions, I think we all want to frequent a forum with a mature and respectful community.
I understand how you felt attacked, indeed demonstrating the community’s preferences early on in development is important to help developers prioritize certain aspects. I personally would much prefer that an extra effort be put to animations than almost any other visual aspect of the game. I’m sure that you can understand how some people who are passionate about the project might feel that you’re passing premature and harsh judgement on a work in progress, which is why you clashed a bit with other’s on this particular discussion. I’m not pointing fingers nor taking sides, just trying to understand where everyone is coming from. In the end, I’m just advocating for healthier discussions, I think we all want to frequent a forum with a mature and respectful community.
[/quote]
Everything is a matter of point of view and, above all, of respecting the points of view of others.
Every "hype" depends on expectations and currently the MMO that does not highlight its "status of art" will not be popular. WoW, for example, has found that to keep its players it needs to evolve visually. Most recent MMOs attract new audiences precisely because they have clear artistic characteristics. It is important that AoC be a differentiated game paying attention to the audiovisual quality, it is not about clear and colorful graphics, but to have life inside the game. Life.
Player driven world, reactive experience, player housing, castle sieges are promises have to actually run after launch. After. Before the launch people want to see now how the combat works, how the characters move along skills, the nodes area is a cool idea, but not really the cup of tea.
I understand how you felt attacked, indeed demonstrating the community’s preferences early on in development is important to help developers prioritize certain aspects. I personally would much prefer that an extra effort be put to animations than almost any other visual aspect of the game. I’m sure that you can understand how some people who are passionate about the project might feel that you’re passing premature and harsh judgement on a work in progress, which is why you clashed a bit with other’s on this particular discussion. I’m not pointing fingers nor taking sides, just trying to understand where everyone is coming from. In the end, I’m just advocating for healthier discussions, I think we all want to frequent a forum with a mature and respectful community.
</blockquote> Everything is a matter of point of view and, above all, of respecting the points of view of others.
Every “hype” depends on expectations and currently the MMO that does not highlight its “status of art” will not be popular. WoW, for example, has found that to keep its players it needs to evolve visually. Most recent MMOs attract new audiences precisely because they have clear artistic characteristics. It is important that AoC be a differentiated game paying attention to the audiovisual quality, it is not about clear and colorful graphics, but to have life inside the game. Life.
Player driven world, reactive experience, player housing, castle sieges are promises have to actually run after launch. After. Before the launch people want to see now how the combat works, how the characters move along skills, the nodes area is a cool idea, but not really the cup of tea.
[/quote] That is very true, but you missed one fact- The MMORPGs are mostly carbon copies of something previously made, right down to even the business model. The only thing that actually set one MMORPG apart from one another is the graphics. some had really immersive graphics that made it more immersive and so players liked it more. others had downright shitty graphics and failed. the thing is, steven isn't counting on the graphics. he's banking on two things. first, the system itself is reactive and will be a ever-changing scenarios, so the first group to leave the game, the guys who do lore hunting and just 'finish' the game, will never leave. second, he's taking the business model into his own hands, will ensuring there will never be a P2W aspect. why I can say, that this can save possible lacklustre animations from being the doom of the game, is that no other game can mimic this system, and if they do, with better animations... eh! we have an even better game to play! besides, why I say people can never mimic the game's idea is because of the second point, that is not having a P2W aspect. if a similar game is made, it is probably going to be sold to businessmen, who are immediately going to add a gold shop into it, or something similar. This is a turn off for almost everyone who came here. on the other hand, if there are no active GMs, or some sort of bot hunters in place, then it's only a matter of time before the game slides down the slippery slopes of p2w, to oblivion. You are being paranoid about the graphics making others turn away. but in reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. the discord chat has 6000+ members. you think none of them noticed the less than realistic animations? They did, and even if they didn't, proxy's video analysed it. don't worry, the game won't fail. not now, not on release and not definitely because of this. on the flip side, I think slightly plastic animations(emphasis on the word slightly) will actually help the MMORPG in the long run, as it will not attract multi boxers from more visually appealing games, as that is why there nests are. since p2w doesn't bother them and every game is a carbon copy, graphics is the main selling point for these people. while multi-boxers are not bad on there own, the give the opening for bots to set up shop and ruin the game. granted, Steven and most players will work hard to weed out the bots, but once they see potential monetary gains, they'll incessantly sell gold, using hacked or regular accounts. while it is possible to stop them with extreme measures, causing losses to the gold-sellers in massive sums, things from here 99%+ will go like follows- non-p2w players leave. fewer people to catch bots and more buyers/reporting ratio, making it easier to bot. the gold value drops further, more non-p2w players leave, so on, so on until the community stagnates to just loner players, bots and gold buyers. the game is dead, never to be revived again. unless you find some methods to flush out bots and restart the game. so as you can see, everything is interconnected. Building the perfect MMORPG is like building a house of cards.it is very difficult, requiring a good startup community, a hardworking team, A guy handling business who doesn't think only about money, Dedicated GMs, helpful volunteers to help the GMs coz come on, how much can like a team of 5 do in 1000+ ppl. these are some of the things I could think of, I'm sure it's only the tip of the iceberg though. Everyone here is willing to sack a bit of visual quality for the non-p2w aspect, if you are not that sort, then there are other MMOs you can go to. Also, let me throw your own statement back at you. you said immersion is necessary. tell me, would you rather be around slightly less well animated humans, who interact, joke and just generally have fun; or would you rather be standing around with a bunch of botted characters who are literally acting like ghosts, and there are probably so many that you lag to oblivion.
<em>That is very true, but you missed one fact- The MMORPGs are mostly carbon copies of something previously made, right down to even the business model. The only thing that actually set one MMORPG apart from one another is the graphics. some had really immersive graphics that made it more immersive and so players liked it more. others had downright shitty graphics and failed. the thing is, steven isn’t counting on the graphics. he’s banking on two things. first, the system itself is reactive and will be a ever-changing scenarios, so the first group to leave the game, the guys who do lore hunting and just ‘finish’ the game, will never leave. second, he’s taking the business model into his own hands, will ensuring there will never be a P2W aspect. why I can say, that this can save possible lacklustre animations from being the doom of the game, is that no other game can mimic this system, and if they do, with better animations… eh! we have an even better game to play! besides, why I say people can never mimic the game’s idea is because of the second point, that is not having a P2W aspect. if a similar game is made, it is probably going to be sold to businessmen, who are immediately going to add a gold shop into it, or something similar. This is a turn off for almost everyone who came here. on the other hand, if there are no active GMs, or some sort of bot hunters in place, then it’s only a matter of time before the game slides down the slippery slopes of p2w, to oblivion. You are being paranoid about the graphics making others turn away. but in reality, that couldn’t be further from the truth. the discord chat has 6000+ members. you think none of them noticed the less than realistic animations? They did, and even if they didn’t, proxy’s video analysed it. don’t worry, the game won’t fail. not now, not on release and not definitely because of this. on the flip side, I think slightly plastic animations(emphasis on the word slightly) will actually help the MMORPG in the long run, as it will not attract multi boxers from more visually appealing games, as that is why there nests are. since p2w doesn’t bother them and every game is a carbon copy, graphics is the main selling point for these people. while multi-boxers are not bad on there own, the give the opening for bots to set up shop and ruin the game. granted, Steven and most players will work hard to weed out the bots, but once they see potential monetary gains, they’ll incessantly sell gold, using hacked or regular accounts. while it is possible to stop them with extreme measures, causing losses to the gold-sellers in massive sums, things from here 99%+ will go like follows- non-p2w players leave. fewer people to catch bots and more buyers/reporting ratio, making it easier to bot. the gold value drops further, more non-p2w players leave, so on, so on until the community stagnates to just loner players, bots and gold buyers. the game is dead, never to be revived again. unless you find some methods to flush out bots and restart the game. so as you can see, everything is interconnected. Building the perfect MMORPG is like building a house of cards.it is very difficult, requiring a good startup community, a hardworking team, A guy handling business who doesn’t think only about money, Dedicated GMs, helpful volunteers to help the GMs coz come on, how much can like a team of 5 do in 1000+ ppl. these are some of the things I could think of, I’m sure it’s only the tip of the iceberg though. Everyone here is willing to sack a bit of visual quality for the non-p2w aspect, if you are not that sort, then there are other MMOs you can go to. Also, let me throw your own statement back at you. you said immersion is necessary. tell me, would you rather be around slightly less well animated humans, who interact, joke and just generally have fun; or would you rather be standing around with a bunch of botted characters who are literally acting like ghosts, and there are probably so many that you lag to oblivion.</em>
</blockquote> Dear Guild Master of Ice phoenix,
Respectfully, in response to your long comment, I must highlight a few points:
1) My criticism is valid and this is the right time to get the attention of developers to take better care of the presentation of the game. The moment of the hype and attract investors and players is now, not later.
2) My criticism is constructive, it is healthy and conscious, resulting from the desire for AoC to become a success.
3) At no time did I complain about the game or encourage people to move away. On the contrary, I'm here just to get to know the game more and obviously invite more people to get to know AoC.
4) All questions about Pw2, bots and goldsellers are common and should be prevented as an obligation of the developers of any MMO. They are not differential.
5) I'm not being paranoid. I am soberly raising an issue that I consider important and fundamental. If you do not think it's important, OK. It's a view of you, so paranoia is getting bothered with those who do not have the same point of view. Be cool.
6) Again, this topic was opened by me to discuss about animation design. If the subject does not interest you so you do not have to participate.
If you are interested, I invite you to watch this demo: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r40PJ6r_P4c">UE4 Animation and Physics Technical Showcase | GDC 2017 | Unreal Engine</a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r40PJ6r_P4c
Compare with this, if interested: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzezSQdKJoA">Unity3d realistic effect 4 (AssetStore demo)</a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzezSQdKJoA
Anyway, the subject of this topic is to talk about animation design in AoC.
Realize, animation design is not rocket science. It is art, simply art.
[quote quote=11352]As someone who works on a game that uses extensive use of motion capture for animations, it’s not a be all end all. You can have better looking animations created by animators. Given the nature of the game, and the number of fantasy creatures that can’t be mo-capped, trying to mix the two would be a pain.
Regarding the level of animation right now, consider how early it is in the game, there’s a lot of time to be spent making them better.
[/quote]
The point is that the timing of presenting the game to investors and players needs to be well spent now, not later. The first image is what counts for the market, for the hype. In the comments of AoC videos on YouTube, what is most striking is the disapproval of character animation,<a href="http://massivelyop.com/2017/02/27/ashes-of-creation-demos-combat-gameplay-and-ui-in-new-alpha-video/"> stiff and clumky.</a> It is somewhat absurd to prepare a video presentation of the gameplay with amateur animation problems. Fix later, at another time it may be too late. The time to show the best of the game is now.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN8iabNjuoA">UE4 - Advanced Locomotion System V1 - Features</a>
[quote quote=12188]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-12175" rel="nofollow">Irobot wrote:</a></div> <blockquote> <em>That is very true, but you missed one fact- The MMORPGs are mostly carbon copies of something previously made, right down to even the business model. The only thing that actually set one MMORPG apart from one another is the graphics. some had really immersive graphics that made it more immersive and so players liked it more. others had downright shitty graphics and failed. the thing is, steven isn’t counting on the graphics. he’s banking on two things. first, the system itself is reactive and will be a ever-changing scenarios, so the first group to leave the game, the guys who do lore hunting and just ‘finish’ the game, will never leave. second, he’s taking the business model into his own hands, will ensuring there will never be a P2W aspect. why I can say, that this can save possible lacklustre animations from being the doom of the game, is that no other game can mimic this system, and if they do, with better animations… eh! we have an even better game to play! besides, why I say people can never mimic the game’s idea is because of the second point, that is not having a P2W aspect. if a similar game is made, it is probably going to be sold to businessmen, who are immediately going to add a gold shop into it, or something similar. This is a turn off for almost everyone who came here. on the other hand, if there are no active GMs, or some sort of bot hunters in place, then it’s only a matter of time before the game slides down the slippery slopes of p2w, to oblivion. You are being paranoid about the graphics making others turn away. but in reality, that couldn’t be further from the truth. the discord chat has 6000+ members. you think none of them noticed the less than realistic animations? They did, and even if they didn’t, proxy’s video analysed it. don’t worry, the game won’t fail. not now, not on release and not definitely because of this. on the flip side, I think slightly plastic animations(emphasis on the word slightly) will actually help the MMORPG in the long run, as it will not attract multi boxers from more visually appealing games, as that is why there nests are. since p2w doesn’t bother them and every game is a carbon copy, graphics is the main selling point for these people. while multi-boxers are not bad on there own, the give the opening for bots to set up shop and ruin the game. granted, Steven and most players will work hard to weed out the bots, but once they see potential monetary gains, they’ll incessantly sell gold, using hacked or regular accounts. while it is possible to stop them with extreme measures, causing losses to the gold-sellers in massive sums, things from here 99%+ will go like follows- non-p2w players leave. fewer people to catch bots and more buyers/reporting ratio, making it easier to bot. the gold value drops further, more non-p2w players leave, so on, so on until the community stagnates to just loner players, bots and gold buyers. the game is dead, never to be revived again. unless you find some methods to flush out bots and restart the game. so as you can see, everything is interconnected. Building the perfect MMORPG is like building a house of cards.it is very difficult, requiring a good startup community, a hardworking team, A guy handling business who doesn’t think only about money, Dedicated GMs, helpful volunteers to help the GMs coz come on, how much can like a team of 5 do in 1000+ ppl. these are some of the things I could think of, I’m sure it’s only the tip of the iceberg though. Everyone here is willing to sack a bit of visual quality for the non-p2w aspect, if you are not that sort, then there are other MMOs you can go to. Also, let me throw your own statement back at you. you said immersion is necessary. tell me, would you rather be around slightly less well animated humans, who interact, joke and just generally have fun; or would you rather be standing around with a bunch of botted characters who are literally acting like ghosts, and there are probably so many that you lag to oblivion.</em>
</blockquote> Dear Guild Master of Ice phoenix,
Respectfully, in response to your long comment, I must highlight a few points:
1) My criticism is valid and this is the right time to get the attention of developers to take better care of the presentation of the game. The moment of the hype and attract investors and players is now, not later.
2) My criticism is constructive, it is healthy and conscious, resulting from the desire for AoC to become a success.
3) At no time did I complain about the game or encourage people to move away. On the contrary, I’m here just to get to know the game more and obviously invite more people to get to know AoC.
4) All questions about Pw2, bots and goldsellers are common and should be prevented as an obligation of the developers of any MMO. They are not differential.
5) I’m not being paranoid. I am soberly raising an issue that I consider important and fundamental. If you do not think it’s important, OK. It’s a view of you, so paranoia is getting bothered with those who do not have the same point of view. Be cool.
6) Again, this topic was opened by me to discuss about animation design. If the subject does not interest you so you do not have to participate.
If you are interested, I invite you to watch this demo: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r40PJ6r_P4c" rel="nofollow">UE4 Animation and Physics Technical Showcase | GDC 2017 | Unreal Engine</a>
Compare with this, if interested: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzezSQdKJoA" rel="nofollow">Unity3d realistic effect 4 (AssetStore demo)</a>
Anyway, the subject of this topic is to talk about animation design in AoC.
Realize, animation design is not rocket science. It is art, simply art.
Let’s talk about animation design in AoC?
Thank you.
</blockquote> [/quote] 1&2 I agree with, although I'm saying it's still too early to judge the game's animations yet. there is no denying they have to be improved, but come on, it's only been like 3 months. give them time. that's all I'm saying. 3- when did I say that? an earlier comment? if so that was because you got too critical in an earlier comment and that might turn off readers. you did not intend to do. 4- I was just showing how everything connects. community should assist also, but that's for another thread. 5- I just showed you some numbers, which show that while you may not have actually been paranoid. 6- as I said, with the first comment, you should probably give them a little more time to improve upon it. I understand your concern as a fellow player, but programming is a tedious(not difficult) job. it takes time. let them have it.
to summarise, I'm in total agreement with your point, the animations do seem a bit unrealistic and soft, but again, given it's not their what they intend to use as a customer magnet, they are using their features. this means animations are probably going to be finished just before alpha or sometime like that. nothing wrong in pointing out the flaws, but just don't pressurise them and skew their priorities. that's all. I'm off, good luck.
to summarise, I’m in total agreement with your point, the animations do seem a bit unrealistic and soft, but again, given it’s not their what they intend to use as a customer magnet, they are using their features.
<blockquote> this means animations are probably going to be finished just before alpha or sometime like that. </blockquote>
nothing wrong in pointing out the flaws, but just don’t pressurise them and skew their priorities. that’s all. I’m off, good luck.
Talking about <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVVgjQM0z3Q">Ashes of Creation Pre alpha test footage</a> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVVgjQM0z3Q
Why do some animation designers "forget" to detail the movements of the characters' feet?
Bad solution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkxS_MZQFiY
No solution compared with reasonable solution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m5_lIs7P3g
to summarise, I’m in total agreement with your point, the animations do seem a bit unrealistic and soft, but again, given it’s not their what they intend to use as a customer magnet, they are using their features.
<blockquote> this means animations are probably going to be finished just before alpha or sometime like that. </blockquote> nothing wrong in pointing out the flaws, but just don’t pressurise them and skew their priorities. that’s all. I’m off, good luck.
You know what I had it with you. Other people already told you this that your expectations are unrealistic right now. We also agreed that graphics needed work however its not even alpha and the game has 20 some months before launch. That is not good enough for you, Now with your memes you are just being a down right troll. Do us all a favor and go to some other forum and post your garbage there.
You know what I had it with you. Other people already told you this that your expectations are unrealistic right now. We also agreed that graphics needed work however its not even alpha and the game has 20 some months before launch. That is not good enough for you, Now with your memes you are just being a down right troll. Do us all a favor and go to some other forum and post your garbage there.
[/quote]
Dude, you're the intruder here with petty words. I am interested in the success of AoC. Again, if you do not want to talk about animation design. Get out.
@Helzbelz just leave this thread. let him see for himself that he's only being unrealistic troll who is asking for a fight. after all, you require two hands to clap. let him go on comparing hardly developed animations with fully developed project and make himself look like a fool. Plus if you point out the facts that he's trolling everyone, causing fights and attempting to pressurise devs, he retaliates with words like toxic, intruder and wanting the project to fail. we cannot get any sense into some people, and this guy is definitely one of them. let him rant on in an empty thread that will attract no-one.
[quote quote=12449]<a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/helzbelz/" rel="nofollow">@helzbelz</a> just leave this thread. let him see for himself that he’s only being unrealistic troll who is asking for a fight. after all, you require two hands to clap. let him go on comparing hardly developed animations with fully developed project and make himself look like a fool. Plus if you point out the facts that he’s trolling everyone, causing fights and attempting to pressurise devs, he retaliates with words like toxic, intruder and wanting the project to fail. we cannot get any sense into some people, and this guy is definitely one of them. let him rant on in an empty thread that will attract no-one.
[/quote]
lol @helzbelz @irobot Are you both the same person?
Comments
I understand how you felt attacked, indeed demonstrating the community's preferences early on in development is important to help developers prioritize certain aspects. I personally would much prefer that an extra effort be put to animations than almost any other visual aspect of the game. I'm sure that you can understand how some people who are passionate about the project might feel that you're passing premature and harsh judgement on a work in progress, which is why you clashed a bit with other's on this particular discussion. I'm not pointing fingers nor taking sides, just trying to understand where everyone is coming from. In the end, I'm just advocating for healthier discussions, I think we all want to frequent a forum with a mature and respectful community.
I understand how you felt attacked, indeed demonstrating the community’s preferences early on in development is important to help developers prioritize certain aspects. I personally would much prefer that an extra effort be put to animations than almost any other visual aspect of the game. I’m sure that you can understand how some people who are passionate about the project might feel that you’re passing premature and harsh judgement on a work in progress, which is why you clashed a bit with other’s on this particular discussion. I’m not pointing fingers nor taking sides, just trying to understand where everyone is coming from. In the end, I’m just advocating for healthier discussions, I think we all want to frequent a forum with a mature and respectful community.
[/quote]
Everything is a matter of point of view and, above all, of respecting the points of view of others.
Every "hype" depends on expectations and currently the MMO that does not highlight its "status of art" will not be popular.
WoW, for example, has found that to keep its players it needs to evolve visually. Most recent MMOs attract new audiences precisely because they have clear artistic characteristics. It is important that AoC be a differentiated game paying attention to the audiovisual quality, it is not about clear and colorful graphics, but to have life inside the game. Life.
Player driven world, reactive experience, player housing, castle sieges are promises have to actually run after launch. After.
Before the launch people want to see now how the combat works, how the characters move along skills, the nodes area is a cool idea, but not really the cup of tea.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-12108" rel="nofollow">Tholren wrote:</a></div>
<a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/kntzen/" rel="nofollow">@kntzen</a>
I understand how you felt attacked, indeed demonstrating the community’s preferences early on in development is important to help developers prioritize certain aspects. I personally would much prefer that an extra effort be put to animations than almost any other visual aspect of the game. I’m sure that you can understand how some people who are passionate about the project might feel that you’re passing premature and harsh judgement on a work in progress, which is why you clashed a bit with other’s on this particular discussion. I’m not pointing fingers nor taking sides, just trying to understand where everyone is coming from. In the end, I’m just advocating for healthier discussions, I think we all want to frequent a forum with a mature and respectful community.
</blockquote>
Everything is a matter of point of view and, above all, of respecting the points of view of others.
Every “hype” depends on expectations and currently the MMO that does not highlight its “status of art” will not be popular.
WoW, for example, has found that to keep its players it needs to evolve visually. Most recent MMOs attract new audiences precisely because they have clear artistic characteristics. It is important that AoC be a differentiated game paying attention to the audiovisual quality, it is not about clear and colorful graphics, but to have life inside the game. Life.
Player driven world, reactive experience, player housing, castle sieges are promises have to actually run after launch. After.
Before the launch people want to see now how the combat works, how the characters move along skills, the nodes area is a cool idea, but not really the cup of tea.
[/quote]
That is very true, but you missed one fact- The MMORPGs are mostly carbon copies of something previously made, right down to even the business model. The only thing that actually set one MMORPG apart from one another is the graphics. some had really immersive graphics that made it more immersive and so players liked it more. others had downright shitty graphics and failed.
the thing is, steven isn't counting on the graphics. he's banking on two things. first, the system itself is reactive and will be a ever-changing scenarios, so the first group to leave the game, the guys who do lore hunting and just 'finish' the game, will never leave. second, he's taking the business model into his own hands, will ensuring there will never be a P2W aspect.
why I can say, that this can save possible lacklustre animations from being the doom of the game, is that no other game can mimic this system, and if they do, with better animations... eh! we have an even better game to play!
besides, why I say people can never mimic the game's idea is because of the second point, that is not having a P2W aspect. if a similar game is made, it is probably going to be sold to businessmen, who are immediately going to add a gold shop into it, or something similar. This is a turn off for almost everyone who came here. on the other hand, if there are no active GMs, or some sort of bot hunters in place, then it's only a matter of time before the game slides down the slippery slopes of p2w, to oblivion.
You are being paranoid about the graphics making others turn away. but in reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. the discord chat has 6000+ members.
you think none of them noticed the less than realistic animations? They did, and even if they didn't, proxy's video analysed it.
don't worry, the game won't fail. not now, not on release and not definitely because of this.
on the flip side, I think slightly plastic animations(emphasis on the word slightly) will actually help the MMORPG in the long run, as it will not attract multi boxers from more visually appealing games, as that is why there nests are. since p2w doesn't bother them and every game is a carbon copy, graphics is the main selling point for these people. while multi-boxers are not bad on there own, the give the opening for bots to set up shop and ruin the game. granted, Steven and most players will work hard to weed out the bots, but once they see potential monetary gains, they'll incessantly sell gold, using hacked or regular accounts. while it is possible to stop them with extreme measures, causing losses to the gold-sellers in massive sums, things from here 99%+ will go like follows-
non-p2w players leave. fewer people to catch bots and more buyers/reporting ratio, making it easier to bot. the gold value drops further, more non-p2w players leave, so on, so on until the community stagnates to just loner players, bots and gold buyers. the game is dead, never to be revived again. unless you find some methods to flush out bots and restart the game.
so as you can see, everything is interconnected. Building the perfect MMORPG is like building a house of cards.it is very difficult, requiring a good startup community, a hardworking team, A guy handling business who doesn't think only about money, Dedicated GMs, helpful volunteers to help the GMs coz come on, how much can like a team of 5 do in 1000+ ppl. these are some of the things I could think of, I'm sure it's only the tip of the iceberg though.
Everyone here is willing to sack a bit of visual quality for the non-p2w aspect, if you are not that sort, then there are other MMOs you can go to.
Also, let me throw your own statement back at you. you said immersion is necessary. tell me, would you rather be around slightly less well animated humans, who interact, joke and just generally have fun; or would you rather be standing around with a bunch of botted characters who are literally acting like ghosts, and there are probably so many that you lag to oblivion.
<em>That is very true, but you missed one fact- The MMORPGs are mostly carbon copies of something previously made, right down to even the business model. The only thing that actually set one MMORPG apart from one another is the graphics. some had really immersive graphics that made it more immersive and so players liked it more. others had downright shitty graphics and failed.
the thing is, steven isn’t counting on the graphics. he’s banking on two things. first, the system itself is reactive and will be a ever-changing scenarios, so the first group to leave the game, the guys who do lore hunting and just ‘finish’ the game, will never leave. second, he’s taking the business model into his own hands, will ensuring there will never be a P2W aspect.
why I can say, that this can save possible lacklustre animations from being the doom of the game, is that no other game can mimic this system, and if they do, with better animations… eh! we have an even better game to play!
besides, why I say people can never mimic the game’s idea is because of the second point, that is not having a P2W aspect. if a similar game is made, it is probably going to be sold to businessmen, who are immediately going to add a gold shop into it, or something similar. This is a turn off for almost everyone who came here. on the other hand, if there are no active GMs, or some sort of bot hunters in place, then it’s only a matter of time before the game slides down the slippery slopes of p2w, to oblivion.
You are being paranoid about the graphics making others turn away. but in reality, that couldn’t be further from the truth. the discord chat has 6000+ members.
you think none of them noticed the less than realistic animations? They did, and even if they didn’t, proxy’s video analysed it.
don’t worry, the game won’t fail. not now, not on release and not definitely because of this.
on the flip side, I think slightly plastic animations(emphasis on the word slightly) will actually help the MMORPG in the long run, as it will not attract multi boxers from more visually appealing games, as that is why there nests are. since p2w doesn’t bother them and every game is a carbon copy, graphics is the main selling point for these people. while multi-boxers are not bad on there own, the give the opening for bots to set up shop and ruin the game. granted, Steven and most players will work hard to weed out the bots, but once they see potential monetary gains, they’ll incessantly sell gold, using hacked or regular accounts. while it is possible to stop them with extreme measures, causing losses to the gold-sellers in massive sums, things from here 99%+ will go like follows-
non-p2w players leave. fewer people to catch bots and more buyers/reporting ratio, making it easier to bot. the gold value drops further, more non-p2w players leave, so on, so on until the community stagnates to just loner players, bots and gold buyers. the game is dead, never to be revived again. unless you find some methods to flush out bots and restart the game.
so as you can see, everything is interconnected. Building the perfect MMORPG is like building a house of cards.it is very difficult, requiring a good startup community, a hardworking team, A guy handling business who doesn’t think only about money, Dedicated GMs, helpful volunteers to help the GMs coz come on, how much can like a team of 5 do in 1000+ ppl. these are some of the things I could think of, I’m sure it’s only the tip of the iceberg though. Everyone here is willing to sack a bit of visual quality for the non-p2w aspect, if you are not that sort, then there are other MMOs you can go to. Also, let me throw your own statement back at you. you said immersion is necessary. tell me, would you rather be around slightly less well animated humans, who interact, joke and just generally have fun; or would you rather be standing around with a bunch of botted characters who are literally acting like ghosts, and there are probably so many that you lag to oblivion.</em>
</blockquote>
Dear Guild Master of Ice phoenix,
Respectfully, in response to your long comment, I must highlight a few points:
1) My criticism is valid and this is the right time to get the attention of developers to take better care of the presentation of the game. The moment of the hype and attract investors and players is now, not later.
2) My criticism is constructive, it is healthy and conscious, resulting from the desire for AoC to become a success.
3) At no time did I complain about the game or encourage people to move away. On the contrary, I'm here just to get to know the game more and obviously invite more people to get to know AoC.
4) All questions about Pw2, bots and goldsellers are common and should be prevented as an obligation of the developers of any MMO. They are not differential.
5) I'm not being paranoid. I am soberly raising an issue that I consider important and fundamental. If you do not think it's important, OK. It's a view of you, so paranoia is getting bothered with those who do not have the same point of view. Be cool.
6) Again, this topic was opened by me to discuss about animation design. If the subject does not interest you so you do not have to participate.
If you are interested, I invite you to watch this demo: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r40PJ6r_P4c">UE4 Animation and Physics Technical Showcase | GDC 2017 | Unreal Engine</a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r40PJ6r_P4c
Compare with this, if interested: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzezSQdKJoA">Unity3d realistic effect 4 (AssetStore demo)</a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzezSQdKJoA
Anyway, the subject of this topic is to talk about animation design in AoC.
Realize, animation design is not rocket science. It is art, simply art.
Let's talk about animation design in AoC?
Thank you.
[/quote]
Regarding the level of animation right now, consider how early it is in the game, there’s a lot of time to be spent making them better.
[/quote]
The point is that the timing of presenting the game to investors and players needs to be well spent now, not later. The first image is what counts for the market, for the hype. In the comments of AoC videos on YouTube, what is most striking is the disapproval of character animation,<a href="http://massivelyop.com/2017/02/27/ashes-of-creation-demos-combat-gameplay-and-ui-in-new-alpha-video/"> stiff and clumky.</a> It is somewhat absurd to prepare a video presentation of the gameplay with amateur animation problems. Fix later, at another time it may be too late. The time to show the best of the game is now.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN8iabNjuoA">UE4 - Advanced Locomotion System V1 - Features</a>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/2/#post-12175" rel="nofollow">Irobot wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<em>That is very true, but you missed one fact- The MMORPGs are mostly carbon copies of something previously made, right down to even the business model. The only thing that actually set one MMORPG apart from one another is the graphics. some had really immersive graphics that made it more immersive and so players liked it more. others had downright shitty graphics and failed.
the thing is, steven isn’t counting on the graphics. he’s banking on two things. first, the system itself is reactive and will be a ever-changing scenarios, so the first group to leave the game, the guys who do lore hunting and just ‘finish’ the game, will never leave. second, he’s taking the business model into his own hands, will ensuring there will never be a P2W aspect.
why I can say, that this can save possible lacklustre animations from being the doom of the game, is that no other game can mimic this system, and if they do, with better animations… eh! we have an even better game to play!
besides, why I say people can never mimic the game’s idea is because of the second point, that is not having a P2W aspect. if a similar game is made, it is probably going to be sold to businessmen, who are immediately going to add a gold shop into it, or something similar. This is a turn off for almost everyone who came here. on the other hand, if there are no active GMs, or some sort of bot hunters in place, then it’s only a matter of time before the game slides down the slippery slopes of p2w, to oblivion.
You are being paranoid about the graphics making others turn away. but in reality, that couldn’t be further from the truth. the discord chat has 6000+ members.
you think none of them noticed the less than realistic animations? They did, and even if they didn’t, proxy’s video analysed it.
don’t worry, the game won’t fail. not now, not on release and not definitely because of this.
on the flip side, I think slightly plastic animations(emphasis on the word slightly) will actually help the MMORPG in the long run, as it will not attract multi boxers from more visually appealing games, as that is why there nests are. since p2w doesn’t bother them and every game is a carbon copy, graphics is the main selling point for these people. while multi-boxers are not bad on there own, the give the opening for bots to set up shop and ruin the game. granted, Steven and most players will work hard to weed out the bots, but once they see potential monetary gains, they’ll incessantly sell gold, using hacked or regular accounts. while it is possible to stop them with extreme measures, causing losses to the gold-sellers in massive sums, things from here 99%+ will go like follows-
non-p2w players leave. fewer people to catch bots and more buyers/reporting ratio, making it easier to bot. the gold value drops further, more non-p2w players leave, so on, so on until the community stagnates to just loner players, bots and gold buyers. the game is dead, never to be revived again. unless you find some methods to flush out bots and restart the game.
so as you can see, everything is interconnected. Building the perfect MMORPG is like building a house of cards.it is very difficult, requiring a good startup community, a hardworking team, A guy handling business who doesn’t think only about money, Dedicated GMs, helpful volunteers to help the GMs coz come on, how much can like a team of 5 do in 1000+ ppl. these are some of the things I could think of, I’m sure it’s only the tip of the iceberg though. Everyone here is willing to sack a bit of visual quality for the non-p2w aspect, if you are not that sort, then there are other MMOs you can go to. Also, let me throw your own statement back at you. you said immersion is necessary. tell me, would you rather be around slightly less well animated humans, who interact, joke and just generally have fun; or would you rather be standing around with a bunch of botted characters who are literally acting like ghosts, and there are probably so many that you lag to oblivion.</em>
</blockquote>
Dear Guild Master of Ice phoenix,
Respectfully, in response to your long comment, I must highlight a few points:
1) My criticism is valid and this is the right time to get the attention of developers to take better care of the presentation of the game. The moment of the hype and attract investors and players is now, not later.
2) My criticism is constructive, it is healthy and conscious, resulting from the desire for AoC to become a success.
3) At no time did I complain about the game or encourage people to move away. On the contrary, I’m here just to get to know the game more and obviously invite more people to get to know AoC.
4) All questions about Pw2, bots and goldsellers are common and should be prevented as an obligation of the developers of any MMO. They are not differential.
5) I’m not being paranoid. I am soberly raising an issue that I consider important and fundamental. If you do not think it’s important, OK. It’s a view of you, so paranoia is getting bothered with those who do not have the same point of view. Be cool.
6) Again, this topic was opened by me to discuss about animation design. If the subject does not interest you so you do not have to participate.
If you are interested, I invite you to watch this demo: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r40PJ6r_P4c" rel="nofollow">UE4 Animation and Physics Technical Showcase | GDC 2017 | Unreal Engine</a>
Compare with this, if interested: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzezSQdKJoA" rel="nofollow">Unity3d realistic effect 4 (AssetStore demo)</a>
Anyway, the subject of this topic is to talk about animation design in AoC.
Realize, animation design is not rocket science. It is art, simply art.
Let’s talk about animation design in AoC?
Thank you.
</blockquote>
[/quote]
1&2 I agree with, although I'm saying it's still too early to judge the game's animations yet. there is no denying they have to be improved, but come on, it's only been like 3 months. give them time. that's all I'm saying.
3- when did I say that? an earlier comment? if so that was because you got too critical in an earlier comment and that might turn off readers. you did not intend to do.
4- I was just showing how everything connects. community should assist also, but that's for another thread.
5- I just showed you some numbers, which show that while you may not have actually been paranoid.
6- as I said, with the first comment, you should probably give them a little more time to improve upon it. I understand your concern as a fellow player, but programming is a tedious(not difficult) job. it takes time. let them have it.
to summarise, I'm in total agreement with your point, the animations do seem a bit unrealistic and soft, but again, given it's not their what they intend to use as a customer magnet, they are using their features. this means animations are probably going to be finished just before alpha or sometime like that. nothing wrong in pointing out the flaws, but just don't pressurise them and skew their priorities. that's all. I'm off, good luck.
...
to summarise, I’m in total agreement with your point, the animations do seem a bit unrealistic and soft, but again, given it’s not their what they intend to use as a customer magnet, they are using their features.
<blockquote> this means animations are probably going to be finished just before alpha or sometime like that. </blockquote>
nothing wrong in pointing out the flaws, but just don’t pressurise them and skew their priorities. that’s all. I’m off, good luck.
[/quote]
<img src="https://media.giphy.com/media/Yb7o0xqhZxaxO/giphy.gif" alt="" />
meme https://media.giphy.com/media/Yb7o0xqhZxaxO/giphy.gif
<img src="https://media.giphy.com/media/Yb7o0xqhZxaxO/giphy.gif?format=1500w" alt="." />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVVgjQM0z3Q">Ashes of Creation Pre alpha test footage</a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVVgjQM0z3Q
Why do some animation designers "forget" to detail the movements of the characters' feet?
Bad solution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkxS_MZQFiY
No solution compared with reasonable solution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m5_lIs7P3g
Why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp88TPohGCo
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/we-need-to-talk-about-animation-design/page/3/#post-12209" rel="nofollow">Irobot wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
…
to summarise, I’m in total agreement with your point, the animations do seem a bit unrealistic and soft, but again, given it’s not their what they intend to use as a customer magnet, they are using their features.
<blockquote> this means animations are probably going to be finished just before alpha or sometime like that.
</blockquote>
nothing wrong in pointing out the flaws, but just don’t pressurise them and skew their priorities. that’s all. I’m off, good luck.
</blockquote>
<img src="https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder363/500x/46682363.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="meme believer" /> <a href="https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder363/500x/46682363.jpg" rel="nofollow">meme</a>
<a href="https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder363/500x/46682363.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder363/500x/46682363.jpg</a>
</blockquote>
[/quote]
You know what I had it with you. Other people already told you this that your expectations are unrealistic right now. We also agreed that graphics needed work however its not even alpha and the game has 20 some months before launch. That is not good enough for you, Now with your memes you are just being a down right troll. Do us all a favor and go to some other forum and post your garbage there.
You know what I had it with you. Other people already told you this that your expectations are unrealistic right now. We also agreed that graphics needed work however its not even alpha and the game has 20 some months before launch. That is not good enough for you, Now with your memes you are just being a down right troll. Do us all a favor and go to some other forum and post your garbage there.
[/quote]
Dude, you're the intruder here with petty words.
I am interested in the success of AoC.
Again, if you do not want to talk about animation design. Get out.
[/quote]
lol @helzbelz @irobot Are you both the same person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOwEAHeUfzs
Another video for all those interested in animation design and also for those who want the best for AoC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyMsF31NdNc