Pvper are locust and Trolls

I have been playing mmo for a very very long time. I started when it was word base, and have seen mmo come and go. Some came to early before content was made and roamed around open spaces. Some that you Level so fast you never see the world, and some you was lucky to see a lvl before the game dies. But one thing i have seen kill MMO more is PVP or should i say Open world PVP. Pvp has its place in areas and battle fields or 1v1 tournaments. Let me explain, ok a new mmo starts you got 3 kinds of players the power lvls the craftsmen and the la la's. Crafter work long and hard to master their skills and more are long term players. IN games where crafting matters that is. i can remember the first i got all banded armor made by a craft named Longarm it took me 2 months to save the silver to buy it. Its some thing i earned and we always remember. Any ways i was saying then you got the power lvls who what to be the top lvl just to bully low lvls. So they do, the crafter and newbes are the lvls. out collecting wood, ore and other things. here comes o pvper kills him, the crafter gets killed over and over. One day he says fuck this and quits. one player gone. This happens alot and then many more leave soon the pvpers only have themselves. so theys quit end of game. another thing pvp kills is the story debs are so worried about balancing the chrs. And no new story or new stuff for pver to do or they half ass it. bang you lose more. Pvpers are locust cause they just move to a new game and do the same thing again. I have seen it many times over and over and over. i have seen monthly go to free to play cause it dies so fast. some are just bad games but i seem some great games die with no chance cause of pvp. Open world pvp is a plague please give this plague a shot and kill it. ok Trolls lets hear what you got to say. tell me where i spelled something wrong or my grammars wrong please enlighten me. Just my thoughts o la la's are just the players who play for fun never knowing what they are doing.
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Comments

  • So I'm just going to come out and say it. This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read.

    Yes, Open world PVP does lead to people ganking other characters for their materials. The MMO's you've played obviously did not have a proper system in place to counteract griefing.

    Also, I highly doubt that the MMOs died to PVPers. Give us some titles of MMOs that actually died because of PVPers. I'll be happy to either tell you from experience of playing that MMO or looking up said MMO and finding out why it died. Also, of course, PVPers move to the new MMO because that's what everyone does, PVPer or not.

    To me, this just sounds like the rant of someone that had some bad experiences.

    This game has proper measures in place to counteract griefing. Also, this game plans to do an interesting take on open world PVP that will prevent players from focusing on griefing specific players. It looks like it's going to make open world PVP a fun and interesting aspect to this game.

    There will always be haters. Feel free to hate. Or better yet, learn how to PVP :D.
  • A part of me just died inside after reading this...
  • you have a point about PvP. We all know that when PvP is allowed people can misuse it and troll others. I remember in OaC2 I needed to go into the battle ground to pick up an item or something, moment I entered a PvP zone this one ranger would immediately one-shot me. I just went back after class.
    anyways, what you are concerned about you here, has a name in the community, it is called griefing. that is you go and kill a person who isn't interested in fighting. I speculate that nodes will be non-PvP for citizens, and no one can attack citizens(boring, yes I know, but it's just a guess. hope I'm wrong). unlike other open-PvP, there is a penalty for griefing. you get marked as an outlaw, and you may be attacked by anyone, death penalties are tripled, you can drop your gear, like you are a boss mon or something, and you appear in the map for bounty hunters to track and destroy. and everyone you kill as an outlaw will weaken your attack and defence.
    all in all, the penalty for griefing is quite huge, there's only going to be this rare crazy troll going around. that guy will get beaten to pulp and have all his gear 'confiscated'.
    well, so if you get griefed, you were just really unlucky.
    Also, I predict I'm going to get killed in the first day!
  • I have played every MMo out and watched them all died because of pvp even WWo died their are just now going back to there roots and alot of people are giving it a try again. and if you dont think a lot is lost with games trying to balance classes you have not sat in chat and seem the bitching about o this class is op or o this class got nerfed now they suck. pvp has kill mmo forever. Yes it brings money in fast for the game maker cause kids are pvpers. i watch my kids play mmos and their friends. some of them are the best pvpers . i ever seen i laugh its funny. But as a crafter it suck ass. there are 100 other genes out there to pvp on. lets take wow back in the day you earn your gear them pvp took over. you could do arenas and be as geared in a day as someone who worked for their gear for months. its the i want it now mentality. and everyone plays the same class cause its the strongest. look at Black desert their are class there noone touches because they just simple suck at pvp.
  • i am not saying pvp does not have its place ok taking down a city ok pvp but for me to walk out the gates to find some wood to get killed why its does nothing for the game.
  • one more thing your measure i have hear that many times if this game does that i hope so i really want to play is game. i played eq for 10 years and have not found a game like it. this looks to be alot like it. and i would hate to have to pay my kids to protect me in it, though they would like that. you must be young and not played a lot of mmos look at ark it died as soon as castles came out zerg pvp kill it. to counter that the game let you buy rare crafting stuff in shop. it still died mmos now days if they stay strong for 2 years thats good not
  • [quote quote=12877]I have played every MMo out and watched them all died because of pvp even WWo died their are just now going back to there roots and alot of people are giving it a try again. and if you dont think a lot is lost with games trying to balance classes you have not sat in chat and seem the bitching about o this class is op or o this class got nerfed now they suck. pvp has kill mmo forever. Yes it brings money in fast for the game maker cause kids are pvpers. i watch my kids play mmos and their friends. some of them are the best pvpers . i ever seen i laugh its funny. But as a crafter it suck ass. there are 100 other genes out there to pvp on. lets take wow back in the day you earn your gear them pvp took over. you could do arenas and be as geared in a day as someone who worked for their gear for months. its the i want it now mentality. and everyone plays the same class cause its the strongest. look at Black desert their are class there noone touches because they just simple suck at pvp.

    [/quote]

    1. Ask any old school WoW player why they quit the game and I guarantee they didn't do it just because they got ganked in open world pvp.

    2. Class balancing is just as important in pve as it is in pvp. Take away the pvp and I guarantee there will still be people complaining that some classes are too OP

    3. If you can't handle world pvp then don't play the game.

    4. Name me 1 game that "died" due to pvp.
  • I understand and even like what you think @Rhinosnoring. I agree. Incidentally, anyone who has played MMO for decades understands that today's games are not like the pioneers like WoW, EQ, L1. But unfortunately there is something called "market demand." The WoW phenomenon will not happen again. And like every product, it has had a beginning and is coming to an end. There are millions of players who have learned to play MMO in a way and therefore can not adapt to other games. Thus, the existing market is this multitude of WoW orphans plus a new generation that does not play WoW simply because it has dozens of alternatives, each copying the other. So it is this sense of opportunity that moves some idealistic developers without forgetting the various smarties that appear to just win a buck and disappear afterwards. What we are witnessing today is an explosion of new MMO games from the Eastern market that are born from a historical culture of combat and high competitiveness. This style of MMO is dominating the market and going over the "traditional" MMO style that one day we know. Because of this, proposals like AoC and Elyria are welcome but, despite the will of the developers, their economic survival will depend on serving this PvPers market. A fickle market, in daily dispute for new releases. One of the attempts to maintain Western traditionalism without losing PvP players, which has apparently been successful, is the case of Guild Wars 2. Financially a success and that does not stop growing. So far, we depend on the sensitivity and also the competence of AoC developers to understand the demand that exists and know how to serve it correctly. Lots of work and imagination ahead.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP7zh_SRVNM

    Eu entendo e até gosto do que você pensa @Rhinosnoring. Eu concordo. Aliás, qualquer um que tenha jogado MMO há décadas entende que os jogos de hoje não são como eram os pioneiros como WoW, EQ, L1. Mas, infelizmente, existe uma coisa chamada "demanda de mercado". O fenômeno WoW não vai se repetir. E como todo produto, ele teve um começo e está chegando ao seu fim. São milhões de players que aprenderam a jogar MMO de um jeito e, por isso, não conseguem se adaptar a outros jogos. Dessa forma, o mercado existente é essa multidão de órfãos do WoW mais uma nova geração que não joga WoW simplesmente porque tem dúzias de alternativas, cada uma delas cópia da outra. Assim, é este sentimento de oportunidade que move alguns desenvolvedores idealistas sem esquecer os vários espertalhões que aparecem para apenas ganhar uma grana e sumir depois. O que presenciamos atualmente é uma explosão de novos jogos MMO do mercado oriental que nascem a partir de uma cultura histórica de combate e alta competividade. Esse estilo de MMO está dominando o mercado e passando por cima do estilo "tradicional" de MMO que um dia conhecemos. Por causa disso, propostas como AoC e Elyria são benvindas mas, a despeito da vontade dos desenvolvedores, sua sobrevivência econômica dependerá de servir a este mercado de PvPers. Um mercado volúvel, em disputa diaria por novos lançamentos. Uma das tentativas de manter o tradicionalismo ocidental sem perder PvP players que, aparentemente tem sido bem sucedida, é o caso do Guild Wars 2. Financeiramente um sucesso e que não para de crescer. Até o momento, dependemos da sensibilidade e também da competência dos desenvolvedores de AoC em entender a demanda que existe e saber atendê-la corretamente. Muito trabalho e imaginação à frente.
  • Eu entendo e até gosto do que você pensa @Rhinosnoring. Eu concordo. Aliás, qualquer um que tenha jogado MMO há décadas entende que os jogos de hoje não são como eram os pioneiros como WoW, EQ, L1. Mas, infelizmente, existe uma coisa chamada "demanda de mercado". O fenômeno WoW não vai se repetir. E como todo produto, ele teve um começo e está chegando ao seu fim. São milhões de players que aprenderam a jogar MMO de um jeito e, por isso, não conseguem se adaptar a outros jogos. Dessa forma, o mercado existente é essa multidão de órfãos do WoW mais uma nova geração que não joga WoW simplesmente porque tem dúzias de alternativas, cada uma delas cópia da outra. Assim, é este sentimento de oportunidade que move alguns desenvolvedores idealistas sem esquecer os vários espertalhões que aparecem para apenas ganhar uma grana e sumir depois. O que presenciamos atualmente é uma explosão de novos jogos MMO do mercado oriental que nascem a partir de uma cultura histórica de combate e alta competividade. Esse estilo de MMO está dominando o mercado e passando por cima do estilo "tradicional" de MMO que um dia conhecemos. Por causa disso, propostas como AoC e Elyria são benvindas mas, a despeito da vontade dos desenvolvedores, sua sobrevivência econômica dependerá de servir a este mercado de PvPers. Um mercado volúvel, em disputa diaria por novos lançamentos. Uma das tentativas de manter o tradicionalismo ocidental sem perder PvP players que, aparentemente tem sido bem sucedida, é o caso do Guild Wars 2. Financeiramente um sucesso e que não para de crescer. Até o momento, dependemos da sensibilidade e também da competência dos desenvolvedores de AoC em entender a demanda que existe e saber atendê-la corretamente. Muito trabalho e imaginação à frente.

    I understand and even like what you think @Rhinosnoring. I agree. Incidentally, anyone who has played MMO for decades understands that today's games are not like the pioneers like WoW, EQ, L1. But unfortunately there is something called "market demand." The WoW phenomenon will not happen again. And like every product, it has had a beginning and is coming to an end. There are millions of players who have learned to play MMO in a way and therefore can not adapt to other games. Thus, the existing market is this multitude of WoW orphans plus a new generation that does not play WoW simply because it has dozens of alternatives, each copying the other. So it is this sense of opportunity that moves some idealistic developers without forgetting the various smarties that appear to just win a buck and disappear afterwards. What we are witnessing today is an explosion of new MMO games from the Eastern market that are born from a historical culture of combat and high competitiveness. This style of MMO is dominating the market and going over the "traditional" MMO style that one day we know. Because of this, proposals like AoC and Elyria are welcome but, despite the will of the developers, their economic survival will depend on serving this PvPers market. A fickle market, in daily dispute for new releases. One of the attempts to maintain Western traditionalism without losing PvP players, which has apparently been successful, is the case of Guild Wars 2. Financially a success and that does not stop growing. So far, we depend on the sensitivity and also the competence of AoC developers to understand the demand that exists and know how to serve it correctly. Lots of work and imagination ahead.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP7zh_SRVNM
  • [quote quote=12947]
    I understand and even like what you think @rhinosnoring. I agree. Incidentally, anyone who has played MMO for decades understands that today’s games are not like the pioneers like WoW, EQ, L1. But unfortunately there is something called “market demand.” The WoW phenomenon will not happen again. And like every product, it has had a beginning and is coming to an end. There are millions of players who have learned to play MMO in a way and therefore can not adapt to other games. Thus, the existing market is this multitude of WoW orphans plus a new generation that does not play WoW simply because it has dozens of alternatives, each copying the other. So it is this sense of opportunity that moves some idealistic developers without forgetting the various smarties that appear to just win a buck and disappear afterwards. What we are witnessing today is an explosion of new MMO games from the Eastern market that are born from a historical culture of combat and high competitiveness. This style of MMO is dominating the market and going over the “traditional” MMO style that one day we know. Because of this, proposals like AoC and Elyria are welcome but, despite the will of the developers, their economic survival will depend on serving this PvPers market. A fickle market, in daily dispute for new releases. One of the attempts to maintain Western traditionalism without losing PvP players, which has apparently been successful, is the case of Guild Wars 2. Financially a success and that does not stop growing. So far, we depend on the sensitivity and also the competence of AoC developers to understand the demand that exists and know how to serve it correctly. Lots of work and imagination ahead.
    [/quote]

    So, I've read this post of yours 4 times carefully and I still don't understand the point you are trying to make. Seriously I feel like I've just listened to the Architect from Matrix Reloaded. First you say that you agree with the OP that PvPers are killing mmorpgs, but then say that the success of mmorpgs relies on catering to the PvP market. So which one is it? Are PvPers killing mmorpgs or keeping them going? Also I really wish people would stop comparing every game to WoW. WoW is unique because it was made using an established universe with a huge following, so even though it copied EQ in a lot of ways, it found success. Most other mmorpgs do not have this advantage.
  • [quote quote=12879]i am not saying pvp does not have its place ok taking down a city ok pvp but for me to walk out the gates to find some wood to get killed why its does nothing for the game.

    [/quote]
    except for the fact that the penalty means you are mostly safe. and anyone who does attack you will regret doing so. relax bro, steven knows what he's doing.


    [quote quote=12947]Eu entendo e até gosto do que você pensa @rhinosnoring. Eu concordo. Aliás, qualquer um que tenha jogado MMO há décadas entende que os jogos de hoje não são como eram os pioneiros como WoW, EQ, L1. Mas, infelizmente, existe uma coisa chamada “demanda de mercado”. O fenômeno WoW não vai se repetir. E como todo produto, ele teve um começo e está chegando ao seu fim. São milhões de players que aprenderam a jogar MMO de um jeito e, por isso, não conseguem se adaptar a outros jogos. Dessa forma, o mercado existente é essa multidão de órfãos do WoW mais uma nova geração que não joga WoW simplesmente porque tem dúzias de alternativas, cada uma delas cópia da outra. Assim, é este sentimento de oportunidade que move alguns desenvolvedores idealistas sem esquecer os vários espertalhões que aparecem para apenas ganhar uma grana e sumir depois. O que presenciamos atualmente é uma explosão de novos jogos MMO do mercado oriental que nascem a partir de uma cultura histórica de combate e alta competividade. Esse estilo de MMO está dominando o mercado e passando por cima do estilo “tradicional” de MMO que um dia conhecemos. Por causa disso, propostas como AoC e Elyria são benvindas mas, a despeito da vontade dos desenvolvedores, sua sobrevivência econômica dependerá de servir a este mercado de PvPers. Um mercado volúvel, em disputa diaria por novos lançamentos. Uma das tentativas de manter o tradicionalismo ocidental sem perder PvP players que, aparentemente tem sido bem sucedida, é o caso do Guild Wars 2. Financeiramente um sucesso e que não para de crescer. Até o momento, dependemos da sensibilidade e também da competência dos desenvolvedores de AoC em entender a demanda que existe e saber atendê-la corretamente. Muito trabalho e imaginação à frente.

    I understand and even like what you think @rhinosnoring. I agree. Incidentally, anyone who has played MMO for decades understands that today’s games are not like the pioneers like WoW, EQ, L1. But unfortunately there is something called “market demand.” The WoW phenomenon will not happen again. And like every product, it has had a beginning and is coming to an end. There are millions of players who have learned to play MMO in a way and therefore can not adapt to other games. Thus, the existing market is this multitude of WoW orphans plus a new generation that does not play WoW simply because it has dozens of alternatives, each copying the other. So it is this sense of opportunity that moves some idealistic developers without forgetting the various smarties that appear to just win a buck and disappear afterwards. What we are witnessing today is an explosion of new MMO games from the Eastern market that are born from a historical culture of combat and high competitiveness. This style of MMO is dominating the market and going over the “traditional” MMO style that one day we know. Because of this, proposals like AoC and Elyria are welcome but, despite the will of the developers, their economic survival will depend on serving this PvPers market. A fickle market, in daily dispute for new releases. One of the attempts to maintain Western traditionalism without losing PvP players, which has apparently been successful, is the case of Guild Wars 2. Financially a success and that does not stop growing. So far, we depend on the sensitivity and also the competence of AoC developers to understand the demand that exists and know how to serve it correctly. Lots of work and imagination ahead.

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP7zh_SRVNM?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&autohide=2&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent&w=1400&h=818]

    [/quote]
    this might trigger some PvPers, so be careful. anyways, what's with the video? it seems completely out of place.
  • The anti grief system sounds similar to the old 2d UO mixed with SWG bounty system. My 2 favorite MMO's of all time that were eventually ruined by the big companies that created them. But here is the important part, It significantly reduces open world PvP encounters. I have faith that it will keep them at a manageable fun level in ashes. The best part about it is you will always be on your toes and aware that even other players can still be a danger. It adds a layer of cat mouse excitement. Mostly personal opinion of course. :)
  • Ah, whether to unleash random PVP in your new game or not? Tough question, is it not? A great many things have been learned since the first days of MMO goodness like UO and Meridian59 and EQ. True that many Developers are still ignoring most of what has been learned but I don't see that here. Not yet at least.
    We know one thing: Game Developers DO WANT some amount of random PVP in their games. If not, they would just make it impossible.
    Just the feature of "corrupt" players being visible on the map is a pretty unique approach. Haven't seen that before. How long "corruption scores" persist and how they can be removed will be a very telling part about how much random PVP is seen. If just being killed fixes being corrupt then there will be problems with all the random PVP. When I turn corrupt, can I just hand Bill my gear and have Joe kill me? Can we split the bounty after that?
  • [quote quote=13120]Ah, whether to unleash random PVP in your new game or not? Tough question, is it not? A great many things have been learned since the first days of MMO goodness like UO and Meridian59 and EQ. True that many Developers are still ignoring most of what has been learned but I don’t see that here. Not yet at least.
    We know one thing: Game Developers DO WANT some amount of random PVP in their games. If not, they would just make it impossible.
    Just the feature of “corrupt” players being visible on the map is a pretty unique approach. Haven’t seen that before. How long “corruption scores” persist and how they can be removed will be a very telling part about how much random PVP is seen. If just being killed fixes being corrupt then there will be problems with all the random PVP. When I turn corrupt, can I just hand Bill my gear and have Joe kill me? Can we split the bounty after that?

    [/quote]
    Also, unlike some other games, you don't have to level a crafter, just craft and get on with life. this means a killer will have a huge level and gear advantage and thus will receive huge amounts of punishment.


    [quote quote=13041]
    kntzen wrote:
    I understand and even like what you think @rhinosnoring. I agree. Incidentally, anyone who has played MMO for decades understands that today’s games are not like the pioneers like WoW, EQ, L1. But unfortunately there is something called “market demand.” The WoW phenomenon will not happen again. And like every product, it has had a beginning and is coming to an end. There are millions of players who have learned to play MMO in a way and therefore can not adapt to other games. Thus, the existing market is this multitude of WoW orphans plus a new generation that does not play WoW simply because it has dozens of alternatives, each copying the other. So it is this sense of opportunity that moves some idealistic developers without forgetting the various smarties that appear to just win a buck and disappear afterwards. What we are witnessing today is an explosion of new MMO games from the Eastern market that are born from a historical culture of combat and high competitiveness. This style of MMO is dominating the market and going over the “traditional” MMO style that one day we know. Because of this, proposals like AoC and Elyria are welcome but, despite the will of the developers, their economic survival will depend on serving this PvPers market. A fickle market, in daily dispute for new releases. One of the attempts to maintain Western traditionalism without losing PvP players, which has apparently been successful, is the case of Guild Wars 2. Financially a success and that does not stop growing. So far, we depend on the sensitivity and also the competence of AoC developers to understand the demand that exists and know how to serve it correctly. Lots of work and imagination ahead.


    So, I’ve read this post of yours 4 times carefully and I still don’t understand the point you are trying to make. Seriously I feel like I’ve just listened to the Architect from Matrix Reloaded. First you say that you agree with the OP that PvPers are killing mmorpgs, but then say that the success of mmorpgs relies on catering to the PvP market. So which one is it? Are PvPers killing mmorpgs or keeping them going? Also I really wish people would stop comparing every game to WoW. WoW is unique because it was made using an established universe with a huge following, so even though it copied EQ in a lot of ways, it found success. Most other mmorpgs do not have this advantage.

    [/quote]
    I thought I was the only one not able to make sense of it.
  • [quote quote=13134]
    Also, unlike some other games, you don’t have to level a crafter, just craft and get on with life. this means a killer will have a huge level and gear advantage and thus will receive huge amounts of punishment.
    [/quote]

    Do you not level up your character by crafting? I thought you did, unless you have separate combat and crafting character levels that are independent of one another. If you can level up your character just by crafting then I would argue they would have the advantage over PvPers, since they will have the same stats and better gear than them. What a crafter will lack compared to a PvPer is fighting experience. If a crafter has similar gear and stats to a PvPer (or even slightly higher), the PvPer will probably win because they have fought more battles and are more familiar with the mechanics than the crafter.
  • Yea there will be some PKers here that piss you off. Thing is they will be risking their gear the more they grief you. If you are smart you would run around the world with some friends and the few players that like this kind of game play will be killed on sigh every time.
  • [quote quote=13041]


    So, I’ve read this post of yours 4 times carefully and I still don’t understand the point you are trying to make. Seriously I feel like I’ve just listened to the Architect from Matrix Reloaded. First you say that you agree with the OP that PvPers are killing mmorpgs, but then say that the success of mmorpgs relies on catering to the PvP market. So which one is it? Are PvPers killing mmorpgs or keeping them going? Also I really wish people would stop comparing every game to WoW. WoW is unique because it was made using an established universe with a huge following, so even though it copied EQ in a lot of ways, it found success. Most other mmorpgs do not have this advantage.



    Both:

    1) PvPers are killing mmorpgs as we're used to play years ago.
    2) So, there is a new kind of mmorpg on sale to the PvP market.

    This way, we hope the AoC's aim to "change the genre" - as developers said in the last Twitch - once more is a challenge to be surpassed.

    [/quote]
  • [quote quote=13042]


    this might trigger some PvPers, so be careful. anyways, what’s with the video? it seems completely out of place.
    [/quote]

    Because the new kind of mmorpg full of grind and pvp that is killing old traditional mmorpgs are typical asians, all thirsty of martial arts.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jjHoMB0LxA
  • Obvious answer to people saying pure owpvp doesn't hurt population is just to say "hey, we are going to make a pvp and a pve server". On the PVE server, you can only PVP during node wars or on caravans. Then we can see which servers end up with higher server pop. I think I know the answer already though...
  • [quote quote=12812]I have been playing mmo for a very very long time. I started when it was word base, and have seen mmo come and go. Some came to early before content was made and roamed around open spaces. Some that you Level so fast you never see the world, and some you was lucky to see a lvl before the game dies. But one thing i have seen kill MMO more is PVP or should i say Open world PVP. Pvp has its place in areas and battle fields or 1v1 tournaments. Let me explain, ok a new mmo starts you got 3 kinds of players the power lvls the craftsmen and the la la’s. Crafter work long and hard to master their skills and more are long term players. IN games where crafting matters that is. i can remember the first i got all banded armor made by a craft named Longarm it took me 2 months to save the silver to buy it. Its some thing i earned and we always remember. Any ways i was saying then you got the power lvls who what to be the top lvl just to bully low lvls. So they do, the crafter and newbes are the lvls. out collecting wood, ore and other things. here comes o pvper kills him, the crafter gets killed over and over. One day he says fuck this and quits. one player gone. This happens alot and then many more leave soon the pvpers only have themselves. so theys quit end of game. another thing pvp kills is the story

    [/quote]

    So you DO realize that this game is completely based around open world PvP and the players shaping the world right? While it may not be your cup of tea many of us who have played ArcheAge truly enjoyed a world that was shaped by the players. The alliances, politics and depth of the player interaction is so great and essential that when you join a guild you truly feel like part of a big team.

    I'll never forget my first trip across the ocean in ArcheAge. It was a required quest to get your Large Farm design which was basically a required item in the game to progress. This quest entailed you crossing the ocean which was an open PvP zone into the enemy faction's continent to deliver goods. It was 5 of us crowded all together on 1 clipper with a single Level 50 officer to guide and protect us should we get attacked. I'll never forget that feeling, we were all so nervous that our palms were sweaty because we were all weighed down with heavy trade packs that severely limited our mobility and besides the driver we were all low level so we'd die instantly if attacked by high level players.

    It was a proximity quest completion so we just had to hit the docks for a drive by and get the hell out of there before anyone saw us. We had the strategy to stay far out from shore until the very last second then veer into the docks to complete the quest and get the hell out of dodge. As soon as we veered toward the dock 3 enemy clippers took off from the shore to gank us and take our packs. It was a hair raising race but we got to the docks before they caught up to us and we all were able to complete the quest. But on our escape one of the enemy clippers hit us with a harpoon and slowed us down so that the other 2 boats caught up and we were swarmed. Our captain survived because he was a tank and they couldn't DPS him down. He resurrected those of us that died on the boat and didn't fall into the water and sink and we were actually able to dive down to the ocean floor and recover a couple of the packs that the enemy players left. But over all it was a success. We completed the quest and it was an amazing adrenaline rush.

    THAT's the kind of game we WANT to play. Some of my best memories were times I've been ganked or times I ganked other players or even better when someone tries to rob you but you successfully evade them or fend them off until you hit a safe zone. ArcheAge was such a good game. It was just their Pay to win cash shop, horrible graphics engine that melted GPUs, tab targeting and poor publisher management that killed that game.

    The only thing that is annoying is when a single guild dominates a server for too long. I think having some kind of world apocalypse function that basically resets the game world every year would be a great way to shake things up.

    but many of us love Open world PvP MMOs....we're just waiting for that perfect one to play. I know that Steven the lead on this game is also a former ArcheAge player and his main complaint was the cash shop.... sooooo I think your post will fall on deaf ears...
  • @ SkullMonkey
    That really sounds like fun!
  • [quote quote=13769]
    Rhinosnoring wrote:
    I have been playing mmo for a very very long time. I started when it was word base, and have seen mmo come and go. Some came to early before content was made and roamed around open spaces. Some that you Level so fast you never see the world, and some you was lucky to see a lvl before the game dies. But one thing i have seen kill MMO more is PVP or should i say Open world PVP. Pvp has its place in areas and battle fields or 1v1 tournaments. Let me explain, ok a new mmo starts you got 3 kinds of players the power lvls the craftsmen and the la la’s. Crafter work long and hard to master their skills and more are long term players. IN games where crafting matters that is. i can remember the first i got all banded armor made by a craft named Longarm it took me 2 months to save the silver to buy it. Its some thing i earned and we always remember. Any ways i was saying then you got the power lvls who what to be the top lvl just to bully low lvls. So they do, the crafter and newbes are the lvls. out collecting wood, ore and other things. here comes o pvper kills him, the crafter gets killed over and over. One day he says fuck this and quits. one player gone. This happens alot and then many more leave soon the pvpers only have themselves. so theys quit end of game. another thing pvp kills is the story


    So you DO realize that this game is completely based around open world PvP and the players shaping the world right? While it may not be your cup of tea many of us who have played ArcheAge truly enjoyed a world that was shaped by the players. The alliances, politics and depth of the player interaction is so great and essential that when you join a guild you truly feel like part of a big team.

    I’ll never forget my first trip across the ocean in ArcheAge. It was a required quest to get your Large Farm design which was basically a required item in the game to progress. This quest entailed you crossing the ocean which was an open PvP zone into the enemy faction’s continent to deliver goods. It was 5 of us crowded all together on 1 clipper with a single Level 50 officer to guide and protect us should we get attacked. I’ll never forget that feeling, we were all so nervous that our palms were sweaty because we were all weighed down with heavy trade packs that severely limited our mobility and besides the driver we were all low level so we’d die instantly if attacked by high level players.

    It was a proximity quest completion so we just had to hit the docks for a drive by and get the hell out of there before anyone saw us. We had the strategy to stay far out from shore until the very last second then veer into the docks to complete the quest and get the hell out of dodge. As soon as we veered toward the dock 3 enemy clippers took off from the shore to gank us and take our packs. It was a hair raising race but we got to the docks before they caught up to us and we all were able to complete the quest. But on our escape one of the enemy clippers hit us with a harpoon and slowed us down so that the other 2 boats caught up and we were swarmed. Our captain survived because he was a tank and they couldn’t DPS him down. He resurrected those of us that died on the boat and didn’t fall into the water and sink and we were actually able to dive down to the ocean floor and recover a couple of the packs that the enemy players left. But over all it was a success. We completed the quest and it was an amazing adrenaline rush.

    THAT’s the kind of game we WANT to play. Some of my best memories were times I’ve been ganked or times I ganked other players or even better when someone tries to rob you but you successfully evade them or fend them off until you hit a safe zone. ArcheAge was such a good game. It was just their Pay to win cash shop, horrible graphics engine that melted GPUs, tab targeting and poor publisher management that killed that game.

    The only thing that is annoying is when a single guild dominates a server for too long. I think having some kind of world apocalypse function that basically resets the game world every year would be a great way to shake things up.

    but many of us love Open world PvP MMOs….we’re just waiting for that perfect one to play. I know that Steven the lead on this game is also a former ArcheAge player and his main complaint was the cash shop…. sooooo I think your post will fall on deaf ears…

    [/quote]
    I'm not a fan of PvP either but honestly to say PvP, or rather griefing killed the genre is, just a flat out lie. even if the genre lost many good players to griefing(which it has not, because only people it removes are suckers who can't take it on their first time, or just take a different route).
    Also, some scaling suggests to me that the world is going to be huge, so griefers will be few and far between.10k people will be a only a small amount.
    Or just use the standard technique. if he's too annoying, gather a bunch of your friends and hunt him down. you'll get back what you lost and more too.(3x drop rate penalty + chance of dropping gear).


    [quote quote=13656]
    Irobot wrote:


    this might trigger some PvPers, so be careful. anyways, what’s with the video? it seems completely out of place.


    Because the new kind of mmorpg full of grind and pvp that is killing old traditional mmorpgs are typical asians, all thirsty of martial arts.
    [/quote]
    First off, that's a racist comment(typical asians). I'm an asian myself, and I can say that is as sensible as saying all europeans are drunkards(I know it's nonsense, it's not intended to offend anyone, I know you are not drunkards,etcetc.) Second, the world is dynamic, you CANNOT grind your way to the top, even if you could, how many will? that's right, almost no one. everyone would rather explore.
    And third, for the last time, if you are killed by some random idiot, gather some help and go kill that idiot. you profit in the end, triple drop rate+chance to get free gear. get like what,15 ppl and gang up on him. I doubt anyone can survive such a full blown assault.
  • Lots of walls of text, didn't manage to read literally everything, so just adding my own wall of text, hoping I'm not parroting someone else.

    Personally I'm not too concerned due to the Corruption system. I have played a game with a similar system in its Beta (Fung Wan Online), I have no clue how its doing now... But even in Beta where things matter less, there was almost no PK' ing. Its like being marked as a PK' er, it can be fun for a bit but once you realise the consequences (which most people do beforehand), there will be many that decide against it. Additionally, once someone is corrupt, they are free to attack. Another thing I saw in Fung Wan, is veteran (PvP) players protecting friends, guildies and even other players from PK'ers. (and they say chivalry is dead)

    I have played other MMO's and when it comes to PVP, griefers are most common in situations where there are no direct consequences to them. They can grief, then go back to normal play and no-one knows what they done, or really cares because meh different faction. Even if they get counterganked in time, they can just get away or log out a bit and continue their merry ways later. In some cases though, Guilds will have guidelines that prevent people from griefing, because they have a reputation to uphold, something that also has potential in Ashes of Creation.

    Sure PvP'ers can unite in guilds and whatnot too. But as a rule I dare say, not all PvP'ers are ruthless PK'ers and the number of non-criminals should always be much larger than the number of criminals. So maybe they will hit 'civilisation' once or twice, if they are subsequently punished by the game's and community's reaction, they won't be welcome in certain Nodes, they will lose gear, etc.

    Ashes of Creation has a lot of potential to be different than other mmo's by definition and should have a much more involved community, comparable to some of the other MMO's in their early days. There seem to be plenty of good ways to PvP and quench the PvP'ers thirsts, without harming people who lean more to the PvE side (unless they lose their node). In the end it mostly depends on how involved your server's community is and how involved your immediate in-game community/guild is. There should be plenty of time in Alpha/Beta to verify this :)
  • Ok folks, so a couple of things first off...
    There is an anti griefing system set up, the Devs have already mentioned it. Players will be in 3 categories
    Green, Purple and Red

    Green - Non combatant - these are your typical 'citizen' or 'skiller' type characters who focus on PvE elements and /or resource gathering
    Purple - Combatant - These players I assume have 'turned on' PvP? Its not been explained how you can switch between green and purple, however if you are a combatant, you are ready to engage other combatants in PvP
    Red - The Griefer (essentially) - These players are those who have attacked non combatants. They gain a bounty on their head, will drop most of their gear and will appear on the map (making them easier to avoid unless you are on the hunt for them)

    Whilst I think that system could do with polishing, I do not think its a matter of what is market demand (because that assumes people are dumb and are just a herd of sheep being pushed towards the latest product) nor do I think its a matter of removing PvP.

    I have seen games with little to no PvP, and you know what happens? Guilds move onto influencing the economy AKA Merchant Guilds, making things really cheap and starving a market to make things extremely pricey, which you could argue is also not fair on the average player.

    At the end of the day, PvP is an element of the game that is worth having, and so long as there is a sturdy way of dealing with griefers, I see no issue with it.

    A suggestion to the Devs? Any 'red' players also suffer a % loss in strength and/or Health that way they lose more and die quicker as a result of picking on non combatants, essentially 'their loss.'

    Apologies for any typos etc etc, I did this on the quick as I have other things to do!
  • For many the problem is just as much about vertical progression as it is about gankers.

    Combat is always required in any game... be it PvP or PvE surely really irrelevant.
    You will have to fight....so whether you fight other players or NPC shouldnt really matter.

    What does matter, is Maxed out Vet 1vXing 20 new players to get their rocks off.
    The same kind of players who spend all their time in beta or PTS hunting for exploits the game designer knows nothing about.
    The same kind of players that use cheat engine and such to play with the games RAM areas and improve their stats.
    These are the players that are here to win at all costs.
    FAIR, level or even combat is not something they ever consider and most see their activities as not only acceptable but required.
    The repercussions of Vertical progression almost makes that mentality acceptable.

    Its these PvP players that have tarnished, nay destroyed the reputation of every single PvP player out there.
    Its these PvP players the PvE population hate, because NPCs dont cheat unless they are bugged.
    The game studio can fix those bugs as they control their mechanics.
    The game studio can replace vertical progression with horizontal progression.
    The game studio has no control over hackers and exploiters.

    @Irobot
    hic.... I'm watching you :eyeball: ...hic
  • [quote quote=14054]For many the problem is just as much about vertical progression as it is about gankers.

    Combat is always required in any game… be it PvP or PvE surely really irrelevant.
    You will have to fight….so whether you fight other players or NPC shouldnt really matter.

    What does matter, is Maxed out Vet 1vXing 20 new players to get their rocks off.
    The same kind of players who spend all their time in beta or PTS hunting for exploits the game designer knows nothing about.
    The same kind of players that use cheat engine and such to play with the games RAM areas and improve their stats.
    These are the players that are here to win at all costs.
    FAIR, level or even combat is not something they ever consider and most see their activities as not only acceptable but required.
    The repercussions of Vertical progression almost makes that mentality acceptable.

    Its these PvP players that have tarnished, nay destroyed the reputation of every single PvP player out there.
    Its these PvP players the PvE population hate, because NPCs dont cheat unless they are bugged.
    The game studio can fix those bugs as they control their mechanics.
    The game studio can replace vertical progression with horizontal progression.
    The game studio has no control over hackers and exploiters.

    @irobot
    hic…. I’m watching you :eyeball: …hic

    [/quote]
    I've not met any such cheaters in PvP, unfortunately. but I do have an idea of how annoying they are, because I ran into people who did the same with PvE. shall I hate on PvE now?
  • @Irobot
    If you come across cheaters in PvE.... of course you'd have a reason to hate on them.
    An many people do.

    My point was to identify why PvP players have a bad reputation.
    It was funny in ESO evryone suspected many players of cheating.
    They come back with the get gud scrub/nub comments.
    Created there posse of google eyed devotees whoe worshipped the ground they walked on.
    Just making it clear they were simply that awesome.

    Then most of those players got banned for cheat engine use and such.
    Leaves a real real bad taste in the mouth, knowing that you was right about them being 'that' good all along.
    Many people just crave power over others with an insatiable need to be idolised.
  • [quote quote=14172]@irobot
    If you come across cheaters in PvE…. of course you’d have a reason to hate on them.
    An many people do.

    My point was to identify why PvP players have a bad reputation.
    It was funny in ESO evryone suspected many players of cheating.
    They come back with the get gud scrub/nub comments.
    Created there posse of google eyed devotees whoe worshipped the ground they walked on.
    Just making it clear they were simply that awesome.

    Then most of those players got banned for cheat engine use and such.
    Leaves a real real bad taste in the mouth, knowing that you was right about them being ‘that’ good all along.
    Many people just crave power over others with an insatiable need to be idolised.

    [/quote]
    Yes, It is very evident in PvP when people hack and just generally ruin everyone's fun for being recognised, but that actually happens in PvE too. it's just overlooked as it benefits everyone(faster kills). There are also PvE players who'll go on about having dealt 10k damage when the maximum that can be dealt is like 2.4k.
    If you want to be popular, you should do it in a way which will help everyone, in a honest way. easiest of the lot, I'd say would be bot- hunting and generally weeding the community to keep the toxic people and cheaters out. it's not much, but if like 10-12 people do this instead of being jerks, the game can easily gain at least a year more of runtime. and people will thank you for that.
  • No argument there @irobot
    We can hope. God knows its all we have these days.
  • Respectfully

    I see your point? But I think it's a bit overstretched. It's entirely possible a few people fell into that situation, and you could even argue that's what has really hurt the MMORPG genre in recent years.. But a more viable option is that crappy design, p2w, and terrible/non-existent content hurt he genre. I think you're describing a perfect storm situation, full of unaware participants and a horde of purely malicious adventurers.. All content from Intrepid and nearly all community interaction argues the opposite.
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