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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
I doubt this game will remain a subscription model...
Yes, I doubt that this game will remain a sub based model mmo.
The thing about the sub based model is that, well. Most mmos are either a <strong>b2p</strong> or a <strong>f2p</strong> model now a days and considering that it's biggest competitors <strong>Black Desert Online</strong> is a <strong>B2P</strong> model, I doubt they will remaining as a <strong>p2p</strong> model mmo. Sure, they might have a great launch month but the hype will die down and the sub numbers will drop. I seen this happen with plenty of mmos and they all went either B2P/F2P as a result, then their numbers skyrocketed to the point where they kept the model. The fact of the matter is that most MMO players don't like the sub based model. Sure you might get a vocal majority that defends the sub model with pride but those users will not remain in the game nor will they keep their subs active. They'll stop playing to go play another mmo while either keeping their subscriptions still running or not, depending how loose they are with money. Regardless, I don't see the sub model lasting for this mmo from both experience and when thinking about their competition.
Am I the only one here on the forums who doubts that the sub model will stay? Or do you share my stance?
The thing about the sub based model is that, well. Most mmos are either a <strong>b2p</strong> or a <strong>f2p</strong> model now a days and considering that it's biggest competitors <strong>Black Desert Online</strong> is a <strong>B2P</strong> model, I doubt they will remaining as a <strong>p2p</strong> model mmo. Sure, they might have a great launch month but the hype will die down and the sub numbers will drop. I seen this happen with plenty of mmos and they all went either B2P/F2P as a result, then their numbers skyrocketed to the point where they kept the model. The fact of the matter is that most MMO players don't like the sub based model. Sure you might get a vocal majority that defends the sub model with pride but those users will not remain in the game nor will they keep their subs active. They'll stop playing to go play another mmo while either keeping their subscriptions still running or not, depending how loose they are with money. Regardless, I don't see the sub model lasting for this mmo from both experience and when thinking about their competition.
Am I the only one here on the forums who doubts that the sub model will stay? Or do you share my stance?
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If you are looking to be like the same F2P Jack asses who come to every game and Push it F2P there is the door use it.
O also The Developers also said this game will not be for everyone. So them WOW players that like WOW they should stay in WOW. This will not be a WOW clone like many other games. Just like it will not be for the F2P players period.
Am I the only one here on the forums who doubts that the sub model will stay? Or do you share my stance?
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I suspect they will do what other MMO's have done. initially it will be a sub only model, then they will evolve it to be a B2P or F2P with a sub that gives the subscriber "perks".
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13278" rel="nofollow">mirg wrote:</a></div>
Am I the only one here on the forums who doubts that the sub model will stay? Or do you share my stance?
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I suspect they will do what other MMO’s have done. initially it will be a sub only model, then they will evolve it to be a B2P or F2P with a sub that gives the subscriber “perks”.
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Think you know nothing about the game. There is nothing to BUY. The game is Subscription Only because they know that F2P games end up P2W. They care nothing for F2P because 90% of F2P players play for Free and spend nothing so F2P games have to have Power items in the cash shop to make any money. This is 100% against the beliefs of the developers Just watch their Kickstarter video. It's blatant they dont want anything to do with F2P. Only the people who do not want to spend any money and who are the same people who go from game to game to bitch to make the game Free for them are people that want this shit. Not the core backers of this game.
If you want to reduce your subscription then you can with the referral system. Yea you might be able to play if you refer enough friends that always sub. Outside of that, you P2P or you buy the life time sub at $400+
But the problems it invites as well .... yeah.
I too wonder if the p2p model still has long term viability in this day and age.
But the problems it invites as well …. yeah.
I too wonder if the p2p model still has long term viability in this day and age.
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Why do you think there are no more MMORPGS being made today outside of Kickstarters? Because F2P does not make you any money when you have to come up with content that takes you more money than you make in F2P settings. F2P is great for MOBAs but not MMORPGS. It never was great. It was the only way to save a dying P2P game and give it a handful more years of life before sun-setting the game. The reason why there are so many F2P games right now is there are too many WOW Clone MMORPGS that are not worth subscriptions because you play them for 2 or 3 months then move on.
Ashes is going to break this mold by not being a rush to end game; game like the rest of them out there. There is talk of about 250 hours of leveling to max level. In WOW today you can level from 1 to max in what 20 hours? How is that going to keep players interested? I can tell you it does not, this is why subscriptions in WOW keep dropping and only come back for Xpacs. Its because content is too fast and too stale. When you have content that takes time, months to a year to get to at some points then you have a game people will play for a long time and keep subscribing. That does not work with today's modern MMORPG that players are bored with in 3 months because they done all the content.
But the problems it invites as well …. yeah.
I too wonder if the p2p model still has long term viability in this day and age.
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It isnt, dont let the nay sayers fool you. If it were everyone would be doing it.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13308" rel="nofollow">tinukeda wrote:</a></div>
The temptation to rake in the piles of cash that F2P offers is pretty strong, I’m sure.
But the problems it invites as well …. yeah.
I too wonder if the p2p model still has long term viability in this day and age.
</blockquote>
It isnt, dont let the nay sayers fool you. If it were everyone would be doing it.
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Then you dont understand why B2P and F2P happened in the MMORPG genera. Maybe you should go and understand that First. O and BTW FFXIV is still P2P and I bet you and these people here are the same people that bitch everyday on the FFXIV forums that FFXIV is not F2P.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13339" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>O and BTW FFXIV is still P2P and I bet you and these people here are the same people that bitch everyday on the FFXIV forums that FFXIV is not F2P.
</blockquote>
You are aware that FFXIV isn’t the only mmo out there, right?
</blockquote>
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Dont waste your time, you took the bait. LOL, dont do it man, when you argue with idiots they always beat you with their experience.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13339" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
O and BTW FFXIV is still P2P and I bet you and these people here are the same people that bitch everyday on the FFXIV forums that FFXIV is not F2P.
</blockquote>
You are aware that FFXIV isn’t the only mmo out there, right?
[/quote]
I been playing MMORPGS longer than most MMORPG players out there and I have play countless MMORPGS out there. I know what is out there unlike most people today. I am also well aware of the F2P crowd that has killed every MMORPG for the last 10+ years because you think you are something special when alls you do is fuck the game for the average MMORPG player out there who do not have large Wallets. You turn these games into Wallet wars. Go see ArcheAge and tell me how you feel about F2P after.
[quote quote=13365]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13347" rel="nofollow">mirg wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13339" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>O and BTW FFXIV is still P2P and I bet you and these people here are the same people that bitch everyday on the FFXIV forums that FFXIV is not F2P.
</blockquote>
You are aware that FFXIV isn’t the only mmo out there, right?
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Dont waste your time, you took the bait. LOL, dont do it man, when you argue with idiots they always beat you with their experience.
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More like why dont you and the people that you came here with to protest P2P games move along and go somewhere else. People like you make me sick because that is all you do and you fuck up every game you start bitching about because for some reason everyone owes you FREE shit. I have no respect for people that cannot respect the decision of a company to keep their game P2P. No you have to go to their forums and complain like a 2 year old. You know what. You don't see me going to Neverwinter and bitching endlessly that the game is F2P. Nope I just dont play the game or when I did throw any money at it. I dont play AA anymore and I stopped throwing money at that game because its F2P and is very P2W. No I respect a games right to pick their payment model. I might post my feelings once and move on. I am not like F2P players to flood the forums with absolute disrespect for the company and the customers who want a Subscription model MMORPG. Maybe you should think about that for a change. Maybe then you will realize that you are the one that is disrespectful because you go to EVERY game and flood the forums with your garbage about how a game needs to be F2P when the game has chosen to go P2P.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13347" rel="nofollow">mirg wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13339" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>O and BTW FFXIV is still P2P and I bet you and these people here are the same people that bitch everyday on the FFXIV forums that FFXIV is not F2P.
</blockquote>
You are aware that FFXIV isn’t the only mmo out there, right?
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Dont waste your time, you took the bait. LOL, dont do it man, when you argue with idiots they always beat you with their experience.
[/quote]
Let me ask you a question. Why cant you and the rest of the F2P Player crowd respect a games decision to go P2P and not come here to the forums and post on HOW THIS GAME WILL NOT BE P2P FOR LONG. Really? Because you know something. I didnt go to GW2 Forum and post how GW2 should be B2P when I wanted to play a P2P GW2. I just didnt play it. I did the same with Neverwinter and the only thing I ever said in ArcheAge is says yes I would do P2P for a P2P only server. I didnt endlessly come up with garbage to flood the forum with F2P crap. That is why I have 0 respect for any of you. Why can you not do the same. If you dont like the Sub model then A) Dont play and go else where or B) Refer players and get as much off the sub as you can. Be Respectful to what the company is doing vs what you are.
O and another thing you think I am an ass? Tough I dont care. But with that said go over to the Pantheon forum and bring this shit up. You will get flamed off the forums fast and if you keep this up you will get ban. They made their discussion and they want no F2P Discussion there.
Almost all players who are excited for this game believs in the sub model, and if they were to go against it, they can expect to see players disappear shortly after when they end up being forced to add bad cash shop things to stay alive.
[/quote]
Again there is nothing to BUY. There is NO BOX COST to the game. Just pay the Sub and Download it. Now they might have a Life Time sub. If that is a direction they will take after kickstarter, then you are looking at around $300+ for it after kickstarter if I were to guess. Again No Box cost, so you either sub and play or you dont.
So Technically it could be B2P if they do a life time sub.
Also there are many Adults here, some of us have a Wife, 3 kids and a lot of shit to do. As an Adult you should know there is very few things you can entertainment wise for $15 a month. Hell When I went to see Rogue One it was $50 in Tickets for my wife and Step Daughter. My kids its $45 a month plus our $85 a month to the Y for Tae Kwon Do classes. So people who complain that $15 is a lot for entertainment and lack of time. Take a real look at what you pay for other entertainment. Shit my Spectrum bill for TV is $104 which I am switching to Sling which is $35 a month. Still $15 a month is cheaper than anything that I stated here. The cheapest thing I can think of is my Fishing license which is $18 for the year. Thats not including any equipment I want to buy.
My argument against what you said was that if you look back at other MMOs, you'll notice, the ideas used are pretty much the same across the board, level up to cap, hunt world bosses, pvp, dungeon. a subscription model for another MMO which is largely similar to the others, just wouldn't attract customers. on turning b2p or f2p, the number skyrocketed because people download it for more stuff to experience. here, the referral system, dynamic model of the world, and the sheer number of mechanisms integrated into this will attract a lot of people, and keep them hooked for a long, long time.
oh BTW, don't call BDO this game's competitor. a competitor, in my opinion is a similar game that attempts to win over this game's audience. I don't think that will happen.
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Everyone said that about all the other sub games that went f2p too.
Reality: hype died down, they needed a more monetized game and an infusion of free players. It will happen, just a matter of "when".
[/quote]
I've been watching development for a while, since I haven't seen many games worth playing in ages single or MMO and got nothing to do. don't make dumb assumptions. I showed the stuff to a friend several months back, and we thought it might turn out to be the only decent mmo since L2.
We just realized we were wrong after we saw how dumb some of the ks packages were. And I doubt 'mainstream' mmo players have played as many as us or clocked in as many hours.
I have no way of proving you haven't known about the game for a longer period of time. Only saw you posting today, though. Could be a coincidence, maybe. Then again, maybe not. As to the "don't make dumb assumptions", I'll send that right back to you, regarding how you assume the game will be bad based off of KS packages.
I have no way of proving you haven’t known about the game for a longer period of time. Only saw you posting today, though. Could be a coincidence, maybe. Then again, maybe not. As to the “don’t make dumb assumptions”, I’ll send that right back to you, regarding how you assume the game will be bad based off of KS packages.
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It's speculation with high probability based on unethical decisions. Questionable ethics always rear their head after the game launches.
Due to the KS campaign unethical mansions and name reservation tier being too high vs the basic tier, I will 110% NOT be preordering or pledging. We "might" play after waiting and see how the real game turns out, but I've learned enough hard lessons about not investing in dodgy/hyped games because you always end up disappointed. The message they're sending here is they only care about money, and that their integrity is not what it claims to be.
[quote quote=13339]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13336" rel="nofollow">Malic-Valdon wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13308" rel="nofollow">tinukeda wrote:</a></div>
The temptation to rake in the piles of cash that F2P offers is pretty strong, I’m sure.
But the problems it invites as well …. yeah.
I too wonder if the p2p model still has long term viability in this day and age.
</blockquote>
It isnt, dont let the nay sayers fool you. If it were everyone would be doing it.
</blockquote>
Then you dont understand why B2P and F2P happened in the MMORPG genera. Maybe you should go and understand that First. O and BTW FFXIV is still P2P and I bet you and these people here are the same people that bitch everyday on the FFXIV forums that FFXIV is not F2P.
[/quote]
FFXIV is still p2p because it has a lot of subs. It WILL either go f2p or shut down if subs drop. It's never an "if" but a "when" unless you're world of warcrack.
Basically i fear for the big old, If you want to have a cool pet, PAY, cool mount, PAY, oh really you want to look cool, Please pay some more money.
Absurd , Monster tokens ??? what, so this is a bit like the summoning scrolls of BDO.. Oeh you can grind Hours and Hours for a token or you can buy a token Pack..Please pay some more money.
Sure, you can play the game, but to be a little bit different you better get you wallet.
You can say all shit abut WoW (i don;t play it any more), but it had the best money system. As player you could get any thing you wanted just by playing the game. Only a hand full of mounts and pets you could buy through money.
I want a world to live in, not just a game. If they can make that then I am sure the game will be just fine pay to play. If they do go free to play I will probably not play the game, depending on the model of course but I hate being forced to pay for stuff to make playing the game fun. world of tanks did free to play right, most mmorpgs do not.
I too wonder if the p2p model still has long term viability in this day and age.
[/quote]
Completely different genre but Eve online has been p2p for approx 13yrs now. It recently intoduced a f2p tier which is very limited but yeah, its been a p2p always.
Im not a WoW player but hasnt that always been p2p too?
I understand your point, but f2p games are mainly cash grabs and ruined by 6 billion bots farming and selling gold to ruin the economy, i just see p2p as a step up, a sign of quality and an assurance it wont be short lived, full of teenage trolls and p2w.