Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13285" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
They will lose their player base if they dont keep it a P2P game.
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Everyone said that about all the other sub games that went f2p too.
Reality: hype died down, they needed a more monetized game and an infusion of free players. It will happen, just a matter of “when”.
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FFXIV did a survey on how many people wanted to stay P2P and 80% of their population said stay P2P or they would leave. That would me they would lose 450K subs. F2P is not worth that.
You also forget that Every other MMORPG in the last 14 years have had $100+ Million Budget and was FORCED to go F2P with a cash shop to make more money.
If you dont like it there is the door leave.
Basically i fear for the big old, If you want to have a cool pet, PAY, cool mount, PAY, oh really you want to look cool, Please pay some more money.
Absurd , Monster tokens ??? what, so this is a bit like the summoning scrolls of BDO.. Oeh you can grind Hours and Hours for a token or you can buy a token Pack..Please pay some more money.
Sure, you can play the game, but to be a little bit different you better get you wallet.
You can say all shit abut WoW (i don;t play it any more), but it had the best money system. As player you could get any thing you wanted just by playing the game. Only a hand full of mounts and pets you could buy through money.
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Likely they will have nearly all cash shop stuff in the game able to be sold for gold like every other MMORPG out there. Add to that they will also very likely have nearly the same amount drop some way shape or form in the game, just with low drop rates. FFXIV is a great example of this. They have all the holiday stuff in the cash shop because people want to buy Christmas stuff in July or Easter stuff in November. If people want to throw their money like that at the game which is going to directly reinvest that money Good.
The thing about the sub based model is that, well. Most mmos are either a <strong>b2p</strong> or a <strong>f2p</strong> model now a days and considering that it’s biggest competitors <strong>Black Desert Online</strong> is a <strong>B2P</strong> model, I doubt they will remaining as a <strong>p2p</strong> model mmo. [/quote]
It's perfectly true that "most" games are like that, but a game which sets out to get a very specific audience, which responds well to the P2P model, will likely try and stay there. The majority of the audience, I would suggest, would prefer that to be the case.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/i-doubt-this-game-will-remain-a-subscription-model/#post-13278" rel="nofollow">mirg wrote:</a></div>
Yes, I doubt that this game will remain a sub based model mmo.
The thing about the sub based model is that, well. Most mmos are either a <strong>b2p</strong> or a <strong>f2p</strong> model now a days and considering that it’s biggest competitors <strong>Black Desert Online</strong> is a <strong>B2P</strong> model, I doubt they will remaining as a <strong>p2p</strong> model mmo.
</blockquote>
It’s perfectly true that “most” games are like that, but a game which sets out to get a very specific audience, which responds well to the P2P model, will likely try and stay there. The majority of the audience, I would suggest, would prefer that to be the case.
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The only people that want this game to be F2P are the same people that go to every MMORPG game forum and flood the forums trying to get the game F2P. The one good thing Pantheon did was charge people for the forums and said F2P is not a topic worth talking about. Thats because they are going P2P and will not change their model for this group of people no matter what.
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My kind of people, honestly.
Anyone who's played any of the so called "free to play" MMOs seriously has easily spent over the $180 a year it would cost for a simple $15/month sub. Many players have spent over quadruple that amount in a single year. So your argument is based around a bunch of people being fooled into thinking they are getting a game for free.
Sure a small percentage of freeloaders and high school kids play the game but serious MMO players have no issue paying $15 a month. World of Warcraft has built a very large demographic of users willing to pay that fee and all of the recent Free to play MMOs have built up such a demand for a good MMO with a sub fee based model that it's ridiculous.
I think Ashes of Creation, if they deliver on there promises will have no trouble being a very profitable developer.
If they choose to ignore its Community ( *cough* SWTOR *cough* ) then it will far apart insanely fast.
Fortunately ... that's just it. This MMO has so much Optimism solely because the Dev Team are <strong><ul>
Veterans</ul>
</strong><em>; they've seen what displeases Customers/Players, they know what Players want, they experience Players' dissatisfaction, etc ... and they learned from those mistakes.
Most Problems for MMOs start with the Lack-of-Communication between their Customers/Players & The Devs. But its because they are Veterans that we have high-hopes for this. And Hopefully they will listen to it's Community as opposed to ignoring.
Additionally, even if the ... <em>" Communication-Relationship "</em> is good ... Devs has to give its Customers a reason to stay; content that appeals to each & every Players' Desire while still catering to other styles. Unless this MMO doesn't need any updates
(i.e. If the game is ready upon release & their is no need for any Expansions for about ... 2-3 years )
... then that would have to really a very promising <em>"finishing product"</em> thats been check a gazillion times over.
( it depends on the execution and how well it delivers - too many variables / speculation )
In short, Devs must give a reason for its Customers to Stay, by releasing some enjoyable content, and strong Communication. Which , by the way, its seems as though they're already doing that by their ... "Kickstarter Packs" - some of them mention about Working on building Fortresses, Events and Monster Designs ( just have to spend some more money ) . Although thats only for Kickstarter , at this time, ... but it does seem like a good start.
The Subscription is based on Communication between Devs & its Customers/ Players; listening to its Player-Based. In addition, its based on any (possible ) Future Content that - hopefully -pleases its Player's Preferences. At the same, appealing to other's preferences too. In other words, they need to give the Community a reason to stay.
Ashes of Creation is a game made for mmorpg fans that tire of the same old copy pasta gameplay. This is heavily advertised and the developers do not hide nor try to convince otherwise. They know who their core audience is and what we want. I for one will gladly pay a subscription fee (I got the lifetime sub, so maybe not the best argument) for a game that I truly believe will never become pay 2 win. This is also what I believe many of us are thinking. If they ever make this game pay 2 win, then they essentially kill the game.
In the end, all we can do is wait and see. The developers are clear on the play 2 win part of the game and we the fans expect it to be so.
[/quote]
Of couse theres going to be gold farming bots, my point was the quantity of them in a p2p title compared to a f2p title.
For this, and other reasons such as bots/goldsellers etc, I will generally always prefer the p2p model
That doesn't mean that all p2p games are better, nor does it mean that all f2p games suck.
Really cas wow has reigned supreme for so long on P2P model. Not saying this game will reach that popularity but I don't think P2P will be the reason for that.
To the OP - I think the devs can have the best of both worlds here. With a cosmetic in game shop and P2P. Don't underestimate how much people are willing to spend on appearances whether it be player housing or a cool robe. In a game like CSGO people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a knife skin. F2P will push people away so financially its best to take everyone's money monthly and sell cosmetics
The answer to that is quite simple. WoW came along at a time when MMOs weren't new by any means, but were new enough that it was able to capture HUGE market share and for many people was their first MMO. Once you have that market share, and people are "rusted on" to your game, you actually have to do something colossally stupid to lose most of them.
Meanwhile, a game coming along today, no matter how good, innovative, etc, is facing a market that is remarkably different to the one WoW found itself in when it launched. A game today has to fight, tooth and claw, for every subscriber. It's chalk and cheese. The market is fractured and SUPER competitive nowadays in a way that it wasn't when WoW launched.
I agree that WoWs success can partly be placed on the time it came out but I still feel as though there was no good competition for wow through all the years and the potential for taking away large portions of the player base were there. Everyone who was making these MMOs (Rift, Wildstar, Star Wars, Guild Wars 2) just did not do it as well. Sure an MMO will almost certainly never be as popular as WoW at its height. But I don't think making this game F2P will help and would drive people away.
I wouldn't even worry about people saying it will be (or should be) F2P. It's just crazy talk.
A game need money to become great. And if it's going to be fair, then you have to pay for the product that you are enjoying.
This is all my own speculation, but i don't think i'm too far off on this, there are ofc alot of other factors to consider, but in general i think this is spot on.
1. Like drugs you send tasters far and wide to build your client base and develop a fixation. You promise the earth to appeal to the widest audience.
2. Once the net is cast far and wide. You start the games at low level and the people revel in how rewarded the game is at this stage. The subs role in and word of mouth spreads.
3. But this is not enough. You get greedy. You need to divide and conquer. So you create a vertical progression system and seduce the lower players with what could await them too...if only they progressed to the same level.
4. So the donkeys chase the carrot on a stick...ever further into the bowels of he game. Not realising they have to work harder and harder to any kind of reward. Not realising the chances of that drop are getting slimmer and slimmer.
5. Now your donkeys are basically slaving away to achieve little to nothing. You have domination over them. All we need now is a way out from this hell that they suffer with glee.
6. Now start your cash shop and give them the choice. Endless grind with zero drop rate just to make any kind of progress.....or simply chuck some dollars at me. It will be quick and relatively painless. And so you cough up, because anything is better than the endless grind and paid progress is better than no progress.
7. Now that you have accepted the principal of paying to progress, the next stage is easy. Now we start rising the prices as much as we can get away with. Some will whine and moan....but like any addict...they cant leave as they are hooked on their characters progress. Nothing else matters.
8. Finally. Once they have no more money to spend and refuse to pay more. Introduce drop rates for those paid goods. Until people pay everything thing they have for a chance of what they can never get.
MONEY FOR NOTHING. SELL HIGH BUY LOW ! SUCKERS !
All that vertical progressions system is a part of a grind tread mill, purposely designed to force you to take the easy option... and pay money. Lots of it. All of it.
The psychology of addiction and peer pressure is the engine behind the whole system.
Knowledge is power. Consider yourself empowered. Stop being a chump.
1. Like drugs you send tasters far and wide to build your client base and develop a fixation. You promise the earth to appeal to the widest audience.
2. Once the net is cast far and wide. You start the games at low level and the people revel in how rewarded the game is at this stage. The subs role in and word of mouth spreads.
3. But this is not enough. You get greedy. You need to divide and conquer. So you create a vertical progression system and seduce the lower players with what could await them too…if only they progressed to the same level.
4. So the donkeys chase the carrot on a stick…ever further into the bowels of he game. Not realising they have to work harder and harder to any kind of reward. Not realising the chances of that drop are getting slimmer and slimmer.
5. Now your donkeys are basically slaving away to achieve little to nothing. You have domination over them. All we need now is a way out from this hell that they suffer with glee.
6. Now start your cash shop and give them the choice. Endless grind with zero drop rate just to make any kind of progress…..or simply chuck some dollars at me. It will be quick and relatively painless. And so you cough up, because anything is better than the endless grind and paid progress is better than no progress.
7. Now that you have accepted the principal of paying to progress, the next stage is easy. Now we start rising the prices as much as we can get away with. Some will whine and moan….but like any addict…they cant leave as they are hooked on their characters progress. Nothing else matters.
8. Finally. Once they have no more money to spend and refuse to pay more. Introduce drop rates for those paid goods. Until people pay everything thing they have for a chance of what they can never get.
MONEY FOR NOTHING. SELL HIGH BUY LOW ! SUCKERS !
All that vertical progressions system is a part of a grind tread mill, purposely designed to force you to take the easy option… and pay money. Lots of it. All of it.
The psychology of addiction and peer pressure is the engine behind the whole system.
Knowledge is power. Consider yourself empowered. Stop being a chump.
[/quote]
Can you please pass the crack, thanks.
Here's the kicker. Runescape has now been going (And successful) for 15years. And its not because of the F2P players of the game, but rather the players who pay monthly.
Lord of the rings online been going on for 12 years. And once again its not because of the high number of F2P players but the players who pay monthly.
These are just a few F2P games that exist today because of P2P players. Basically, its not the amount of people playing.
Quality not Quantity wins the day every day.