Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
https://hired.com/companies/intrepid-studios-inc
I've already voiced my concerns in <strong><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/where-are-the-engineers/">another thread</a></strong>. We all need to make up our own mind about the validity of this project, but there is currently no way I'm backing this project based on:
The founders have zero listed game development experience.
The developers don't seem concerned to answer the hard questions even on their very own forums.
They have one coder listed on their staff page.
They are using too many UE store assets for the art talent they currently have on staff.
They are using the "minimum viable product" crowd-funding loophole and have not defined what that is.
They are offering a pledge back guarantee which is a catch22. If they don't need this money why Kickstart, otherwise they will use the money so how will they pay it back (see the MVP loophole above)?
"They are using too many UE store assets for the art talent they currently have on staff."
Right here.. where are you getting this from? Do you actually have sources, show me just one UE store asset they are using :S
Also like, most of this conversation has just happened, so let's just like wait. I mean if in 30 days a community manager hasn't said anything regarding these issues i'm dropping my pledge, but they have barely had any time to respond.
even all the profiles on the staff page look like they were written by the one person.
With the amount of polish to the team presentation you would think they would showcase the brain-trust that will code this wonderful idea of a game (which is all it is in my opinion). Your code team is the backbone of your production so it makes sense that you would show off that talent maybe even more than your art talent because their work should speak for them anyway.
[/quote]
It is the same thing. Ask them to define their "core viable product". Otherwise their guarantee to give you your money back is utterly useless, and I suspect they know this.
I’m that dude; I also wear the hat of Principal Programmer. However, I’m not the only person working on code for the game. We have a few folks – currently not listed on the “about the team” page – who are working with me on the codebase. I am also in the process of interviewing additional programmers to fill out the team a bit further.
It’s true that our coding team seems a little sparse for such an ambitious project, but I can assure you there’s more to the project than just what you see on the surface. We have external partners who have already developed strong systems and utilities that we intend to leverage to a maximal degree. We also intend to set up bi-directional development effort with a few of those partners. Don’t forget the epic level (pun intended) of development effort that Epic provides for the Unreal Engine we are using as a base for the game. So, if you tally up the total number of programmers of all the studios we are partnering with and then add in our own, it looks much more like the numbers you might see working in a vacuum on a large AAA title.
Additionally, the Blueprint language that Unreal Engine provides allows game designers to produce nearly the same quality “code” as a software engineer, thus freeing up actual programmers to work on backend services and native C++ plugins for Unreal (which makes the designers more empowered to make the game they envision)
''I’m that dude; I also wear the hat of Principal Programmer. However, I’m not the only person working on code for the game. We have a few folks – currently not listed on the “about the team” page – who are working with me on the codebase. I am also in the process of interviewing additional programmers to fill out the team a bit further.
It’s true that our coding team seems a little sparse for such an ambitious project, but I can assure you there’s more to the project than just what you see on the surface. We have external partners who have already developed strong systems and utilities that we intend to leverage to a maximal degree. We also intend to set up bi-directional development effort with a few of those partners. Don’t forget the epic level (pun intended) of development effort that Epic provides for the Unreal Engine we are using as a base for the game. So, if you tally up the total number of programmers of all the studios we are partnering with and then add in our own, it looks much more like the numbers you might see working in a vacuum on a large AAA title.
Additionally, the Blueprint language that Unreal Engine provides allows game designers to produce nearly the same quality “code” as a software engineer, thus freeing up actual programmers to work on backend services and native C++ plugins for Unreal (which makes the designers more empowered to make the game they envision)"
You CAN make a usable environment with a small team and a couple years of time. That is a point that fails in the OP's questioning statement #1. Whether they HAVE done so or not and whether their team size meets the OP's approval level is really speculation and opinion. To me it looks like this game is being made on a budget FAR BELOW a AAA game so they likely will never have 100s of employees on the basic design staff. Maybe later when they need GMs and stuff, but why now?
”I’m that dude; I also wear the hat of Principal Programmer. However, I’m not the only person working on code for the game. We have a few folks – currently not listed on the “about the team” page – who are working with me on the codebase. I am also in the process of interviewing additional programmers to fill out the team a bit further.
It’s true that our coding team seems a little sparse for such an ambitious project, but I can assure you there’s more to the project than just what you see on the surface. We have external partners who have already developed strong systems and utilities that we intend to leverage to a maximal degree. We also intend to set up bi-directional development effort with a few of those partners. Don’t forget the epic level (pun intended) of development effort that Epic provides for the Unreal Engine we are using as a base for the game. So, if you tally up the total number of programmers of all the studios we are partnering with and then add in our own, it looks much more like the numbers you might see working in a vacuum on a large AAA title.
Additionally, the Blueprint language that Unreal Engine provides allows game designers to produce nearly the same quality “code” as a software engineer, thus freeing up actual programmers to work on backend services and native C++ plugins for Unreal (which makes the designers more empowered to make the game they envision)”
[/quote]
Thanks, Meagashira, but to me that answer did more harm than good. They are <strong>extremely</strong> forth-coming with their art team but all we get is a vague "others are helping code" for programmers and that they've outsourced. I can't help but to wonder if it is the outsourced people who he is referring to that is helping him code.
Why is it so hard to put up credentials of the people that will bring these wonderful designs to fruition?
What are you guys doing to prevent the referral system from being commercially exploited? Would you be willing to put any limits or safeguards on it?
The shady business with this kind of cashback program, clearly has nothing to do with dude1234 making a few bucks and reinvesting it in the game or paying his sub on the side.
If the rewards were purely game-related, only people with an interest in the game (plus your traditional gold sellers) would try to get referral money. Now because they are opening it so that _everyone_ can cash out, walk out real hard money, then you just enlarged the realm of who's interested to anyone that's in to make money on the internet, potentially.
How is that bad? Well you've just shifted motivations for how people act in and about, and how they upsell the game. People are creative. They'll find creative ways to exploit the system. Let me give you a few pointers on that.
It could be tricking people to use their referral links to signup. Or flat out lying about the game to get someone to use their link and sign-up for a month. When a company makes false promises, the consumer recourse is to go after them and call them out on their bullshit, open litigation cases, impact their image. But when it's some 3rd party nameless referrer, you just shifted the potential for blame. AoC might profit from someone selling the game under false pretense, but never get any consequences for it.
Something else big referrers can do is invest into accounts. Level up a character, gear it up, then hand the account over to someone (just give it for free) and continue making a profit off of their monthly sub, actually making powerleveling even look legitimate (no $$ changing hands directly).
Even better, referrers could just trade someone’s signup using their referral link based on a promise for rewards in-game or advantages and bonuses (one month free! 1000 gold! this armor set!) in the hope that using their link to signup, the user will continue playing regularly so they can recoup for their initial investment of farming for that gold or gear, etc.
Someone could even launder money quite easily using that approach. First, buy gold from a gold seller. Second, package that gold with referrals (as explained above). Third: profit! Very hard to trace where that money came from.
There are just so many ways that this could be twisted into people acting against the good of a community in game. I also totally don't understand how that's not revenue sharing. The fact that Kickstarter has quite a stake in the success of that KS is probably something that comes into play when it comes to bending the rules ever so slightly...
However, not answering these questions in a forthright manner creates a sense of deception. If you look at successful Kickstarted games like Camelot Unchained, they are very open about their need to hire more programmers and engineers to ensure that their code is up to snuff for the things they want to do. It's okay to be skeptical when it comes to these lofty promises. I want this game to be successful and the developers should not be afraid to answer these questions if they are confident in their own production.
You complain that no one answers your issues; yet Jason, the person who turns out is in charge of programmers literally told us everything is fine and that they have and are hiring enough to complete the project. There could be a million reasons as to why they don't have bios yet you jump straight to "the game is a scam". Surely you can think of other reasons as to why they don't have bios, why do you jump head on into some conspiracy. Almost every other concern is debunked. Like the whole "MOST ASSETS ARE TAKEN FROM THE UNITY STORE" despite not having any evidence, links and sources please.
Just because they aren't showing off all their programming talent doesn't mean anything, it's just how you think they should present themselves.
No matter how much information is thrown at you, you just find whatever tiny rabbit hole you can think of to fall into, in this thread and every other one on the forums from what I can see.
Sure this kickstarter is risky, like all kickstarters, especially for such an ambitious project. But there's nothing overwhelming to suggest everything is rotten to begin with. Just chill out man, if your biggest concern is they don't have bios for people you expect them to on your staff page, and that's enough for you to think the game is a scam, you need to take a step back :p
People have been flipping out about the lack of transparency and a lack of a response literally hours after the this thread and others were created. Before a community manager or anyone makes official statements and replies they probably talk to their co workers as to the best way to address the concerns obviously. And in this case it took less than 12 hours for them to get back and explain what's up...enough time for everyone to flip out apparently
Slagathore and the other dude are also notorious for just bitching about everything, even people on the mmorpg forums wanting them to vanish with all their toxicity.
It seems pretty natural that any ambiguity of any kind throws up flags and starts little fires. Never mind that some or sometimes most of the ambiguity is trumped up nonsense and often presented with an agenda to weaken support. Players have been burned too much.
I still have to wonder though, what it feels like to be compelled to comfort fans or potential customers over every tiny little over blown issue. Like having your chain yanked hard?
I’m still kind of concerned about the real life cash back system, I didn’t realise you earned actual cash from recruiting people. That pretty much is a pyramid scheme :S would be totally fine if the rewards were just in game.
I’ve pledged quite a bit but this kind of worries me, if they stick to just in game cash shop discounts/sub discounts and not actual cash payouts for referrals then I will definitely keep my pledge.
[/quote]
I was unaware this game pledge thing was turning into an MLM? Why would they even offer that if this pledge is all about in game rewards?
Hallelujah!
I hope they do address all of the original questions posed by OP. While I'm not buying that they are merely out to make a quick buck and not create the promised product, they are the kind of details I would like to know before committing to this game fully - especially questions 1 and 5.
I think we can all agree that this thread has gained enough attraction to merit a response from the developers.
You complain that no one answers your issues; yet Jason, the person who turns out is in charge of programmers literally told us everything is fine and that they have and are hiring enough to complete the project. There could be a million reasons as to why they don’t have bios yet you jump straight to “the game is a scam”. Surely you can think of other reasons as to why they don’t have bios, why do you jump head on into some conspiracy. Almost every other concern is debunked. Like the whole “MOST ASSETS ARE TAKEN FROM THE UNITY STORE” despite not having any evidence, links and sources please.
Just because they aren’t showing off all their programming talent doesn’t mean anything, it’s just how you think they should present themselves.
No matter how much information is thrown at you, you just find whatever tiny rabbit hole you can think of to fall into, in this thread and every other one on the forums from what I can see.
Sure this kickstarter is risky, like all kickstarters, especially for such an ambitious project. But there’s nothing overwhelming to suggest everything is rotten to begin with. Just chill out man, if your biggest concern is they don’t have bios for people you expect them to on your staff page, and that’s enough for you to think the game is a scam, you need to take a step back :p
[/quote]
I'm not sure how to word this where it is properly understood. I thought I've been clear but I guess I've been wrong. I am a pessimist by design and that has offered me a very comfortable life. How? I'm going to disclose something I hope I don't regret.
I make a living by vetting companies for a medium-sized investment company that specialize in startups looking for first round funding (Series A). I am the "due diligence" guy. I don't invest, I don't find the companies, I only do the initial vetting and report my findings. I am counted on to weed out companies that don't fit what the investors are looking for, including those that would scam them. I get paid decently to do what I do. I get paid very well in bonuses should the companies I recommend for investing succeed so I have a vested interest in scrutinizing every aspect of a prospective company.
Let me assure you there are no bounds to what a company will go through to look good for the chance at large money, which ironically Series A funding usually is not relative to follow-on series. I have caught companies lying about their revenue, their staff, their products, their facilities, even their ownership. One company was looking for funding to expand into a neighboring warehouse because they were seeing "unprecedented growth". Come to find out their existing warehouse was full of stacked boxes, hundreds of them, all filled with dirty used clothes, papers and garbage. This company was not a clothing, paper or garbage company.
The VERY first thing I look at is the team. Without a solid team, there will be no solid product. I have yet to see even one exception to this rule.
This is why I am pressing Intrepid Studios so hard on the lack of programmer presentation, especially given the emphasis they have decided to put on the art team. This concern is magnified because they are building a MMO which we all know to be one of the most complex coding beasts you can create.
I know Jason Crawford answered the question of him being the only listed programmer but from my experience in vetting companies his answer was full of avoidance. Using terms like "there are others helping me" and "bi-directional partners" makes that painfully clear. Otherwise he could have just said "We have a total of 3 coders on staff, two junior coders and a lead, and we are outsourcing roughly z% of the current workload to company Y" or something of that nature.
Let's assume I am correct in that they only have Jason as their coding team. Sure they can hire more and make the game. However, the avoidance displayed shows I can trust this company to be forthright about their standings and that is always game over in the due diligence world. If I can't trust your leadership, I can't recommend you for further consideration.
My other concern is the "core viable product" being thrown around along with the guarantee they will refund all pledges should they not launch Ashes. Let me use an analogy. You want to buy a car. The sales person says they offer a warranty with the car you found. You ask the sales person what the warranty is. He tells you it covers "the basics". You ask what the basics covers. He says "you know, the basics". You ask again and never get an answer. Would you still buy the car?
That's probably not the best analogy but I hope it gets my point across. A "core viable product" can literally mean anything and is being left undefined until it is needed, which I hope for all the backers sake never happens. Going a step further, ask yourself why. Why would they offer a guarantee on your money to begin with? They've stated the KS money is so you can be there in development with them because they are fully-funded up to this "core viable product". If that is the case, why not NOT take the money and let people be part of the process for free? Otherwise they are just going to hold on to the money right? If not, and they end up using the money, how exactly are they going to refund if something happens?
This has seriously been the longest post I've ever made on the internet. I am a gamer at heart and want to believe in this project but for the reasons I've posted I can't recommend this company to my investors (my wallet in this case). Good luck everyone, I hope for you backer's sake they deliver on the (super loose) promises they are making and wish you all happy times. :)
You complain that no one answers your issues; yet Jason, the person who turns out is in charge of programmers literally told us everything is fine and that they have and are hiring enough to complete the project. There could be a million reasons as to why they don’t have bios yet you jump straight to “the game is a scam”. Surely you can think of other reasons as to why they don’t have bios, why do you jump head on into some conspiracy. Almost every other concern is debunked. Like the whole “MOST ASSETS ARE TAKEN FROM THE UNITY STORE” despite not having any evidence, links and sources please.
Just because they aren’t showing off all their programming talent doesn’t mean anything, it’s just how you think they should present themselves.
No matter how much information is thrown at you, you just find whatever tiny rabbit hole you can think of to fall into, in this thread and every other one on the forums from what I can see.
Sure this kickstarter is risky, like all kickstarters, especially for such an ambitious project. But there’s nothing overwhelming to suggest everything is rotten to begin with. Just chill out man, if your biggest concern is they don’t have bios for people you expect them to on your staff page, and that’s enough for you to think the game is a scam, you need to take a step back :p
[/quote]
I'm not sure how to word this where it is properly understood. I thought I've been clear but I guess I've been wrong. I am a pessimist by design and that has offered me a very comfortable life. How? I'm going to disclose something I hope I don't regret.
I make a living by vetting companies for a medium-sized investment company that specialize in startups looking for first round funding (Series A). I am the "due diligence" guy. I don't invest, I don't find the companies, I only do the initial vetting and report my findings. I am counted on to weed out companies that don't fit what the investors are looking for, including those that would scam them. I get paid decently to do what I do. I get paid very well in bonuses should the companies I recommend for investing succeed so I have a vested interest in scrutinizing every aspect of a prospective company.
Let me assure you there are no bounds to what a company will go through to look good for the chance at large money, which ironically Series A funding usually is not relative to follow-on series. I have caught companies lying about their revenue, their staff, their products, their facilities, even their ownership. One company was looking for funding to expand into a neighboring warehouse because they were seeing "unprecedented growth". Come to find out their existing warehouse was full of stacked boxes, hundreds of them, all filled with dirty used clothes, papers and garbage. This company was not a clothing, paper or garbage company.
The VERY first thing I look at is the team. Without a solid team, there will be no solid product. I have yet to see even one exception to this rule.
This is why I am pressing Intrepid Studios so hard on the lack of programmer presentation, especially given the emphasis they have decided to put on the art team. This concern is magnified because they are building a MMO which we all know to be one of the most complex coding beasts you can create.
I know Jason Crawford answered the question of him being the only listed programmer but from my experience in vetting companies, his answer was full of avoidance. Using terms like "there are others helping me" and "bi-directional partners" makes that painfully clear. Otherwise he could have just said "We have a total of 3 coders on staff, two junior coders and a lead, and we are outsourcing roughly z% of the current workload to company Y" or something of that nature.
Let's assume I am correct in that they only have Jason as their coding team. Sure they can hire more and make the game. However, the avoidance displayed shows I can trust this company to be forthright about their standings and that is always game over in the due diligence world. If I can't trust your leadership, I can't recommend you for further consideration.
My other concern is the "core viable product" being thrown around along with the guarantee they will refund all pledges should they not launch Ashes. Let me use an analogy. You want to buy a car. The sales person says they offer a warranty with the car you found. You ask the sales person what the warranty is. He tells you it covers "the basics". You ask what the basics covers. He says "you know, the basics". You ask again and never get an answer. Would you still buy the car?
That's probably not the best analogy but I hope it gets my point across. A "core viable product" can literally mean anything and is being left undefined until it is needed, which I hope for all the backers sake never happens. Going a step further, ask yourself why. Why would they offer a guarantee on your money to begin with? They've stated the KS money is so you can be there in development with them because they are fully-funded up to this "core viable product". If that is the case, why not NOT take the money and let people be part of the process for free? Otherwise they are just going to hold on to the money right? If not, and they end up using the money, how exactly are they going to refund if something happens?
This has seriously been the longest post I've ever made on the internet. I am a gamer at heart and want to believe in this project but for the reasons I've posted I can't recommend this company to my investors (my wallet in this case). Good luck everyone, I hope for you backer's sake they deliver on the (super loose) promises they are making and wish you all happy times. :)
You complain that no one answers your issues; yet Jason, the person who turns out is in charge of programmers literally told us everything is fine and that they have and are hiring enough to complete the project. There could be a million reasons as to why they don’t have bios yet you jump straight to “the game is a scam”. Surely you can think of other reasons as to why they don’t have bios, why do you jump head on into some conspiracy. Almost every other concern is debunked. Like the whole “MOST ASSETS ARE TAKEN FROM THE UNITY STORE” despite not having any evidence, links and sources please.
Just because they aren’t showing off all their programming talent doesn’t mean anything, it’s just how you think they should present themselves.
No matter how much information is thrown at you, you just find whatever tiny rabbit hole you can think of to fall into, in this thread and every other one on the forums from what I can see.
Sure this kickstarter is risky, like all kickstarters, especially for such an ambitious project. But there’s nothing overwhelming to suggest everything is rotten to begin with. Just chill out man, if your biggest concern is they don’t have bios for people you expect them to on your staff page, and that’s enough for you to think the game is a scam, you need to take a step back :p
[/quote]
I'm not sure how to word this where it is properly understood. I thought I've been clear but I guess I've been wrong. I am a pessimist by design and that has offered me a very comfortable life. How? I'm going to disclose something I hope I don't regret.
I make a living by vetting companies for a medium-sized investment company that specialize in startups looking for first round funding (Series A). I am the "due diligence" guy. I don't invest, I don't find the companies, I only do the initial vetting and report my findings. I am counted on to weed out companies that don't fit what the investors are looking for, including those that would scam them. I get paid decently to do what I do. I get paid very well in bonuses should the companies I recommend for investing succeed so I have a vested interest in scrutinizing every aspect of a prospective company.
Let me assure you there are no bounds to what a company will go through to look good for the chance at large money, which ironically Series A funding usually is not relative to follow-on series. I have caught companies lying about their revenue, their staff, their products, their facilities, even their ownership. One company was looking for funding to expand into a neighboring warehouse because they were seeing "unprecedented growth". Come to find out their existing warehouse was full of stacked boxes, hundreds of them, all filled with dirty used clothes, papers and garbage. This company was not a clothing, paper or garbage company.
The VERY first thing I look at is the team. Without a solid team, there will be no solid product. I have yet to see even one exception to this rule.
This is why I am pressing Intrepid Studios so hard on the lack of programmer presentation, especially given the emphasis they have decided to put on the art team. This concern is magnified because they are building a MMO which we all know to be one of the most complex coding beasts you can create.
I know Jason Crawford answered the question of him being the only listed programmer but from my experience in vetting companies, his answer was full of avoidance. Using terms like "there are others helping me" and "bi-directional partners" makes that painfully clear. Otherwise he could have just said "We have a total of 3 coders on staff, two junior coders and a lead, and we are outsourcing roughly z% of the current workload to company Y" or something of that nature.
Let's assume I am correct in that they only have Jason as their coding team. Sure they can hire more and make the game. However, the avoidance displayed shows I can trust this company to be forthright about their standings and that is always game over in the due diligence world. If I can't trust your leadership, I can't recommend you for further consideration.
My other concern is the "core viable product" being thrown around along with the guarantee they will refund all pledges should they not launch Ashes. Let me use an analogy. You want to buy a car. The sales person says they offer a warranty with the car you found. You ask the sales person what the warranty is. He tells you it covers "the basics". You ask what the basics covers. He says "you know, the basics". You ask again and never get an answer. Would you still buy the car?
That's probably not the best analogy but I hope it gets my point across. A "core viable product" can literally mean anything and is being left undefined until it is needed, which I hope for all the backers sake never happens. Going a step further, ask yourself why. Why would they offer a guarantee on your money to begin with? They've stated the KS money is so you can be there in development with them because they are fully-funded up to this "core viable product". If that is the case, why not NOT take the money and let people be part of the process for free? Otherwise they are just going to hold on to the money right? If not, and they end up using the money, how exactly are they going to refund if something happens?
This has seriously been the longest post I've ever made on the internet. I am a gamer at heart and want to believe in this project but for the reasons I've posted I can't recommend this company to my investors (my wallet in this case). Good luck everyone, I hope for you backer's sake they deliver on the (super loose) promises they are making and wish you all happy times.
From what I gather if someone subscribes, using your referral code you'll receive either something in game, be that in game currency, titles or what ever. You can even convert that in game benefit to hard cash. But only once per referral not recurring every month. So for instance I refer someone and they sub, I get say £/$/€ that's it end of, AOC still have the other £13.99 that month and £15.00 every month then on, so it's cost them £1, thats a cheap marketing tool for them.
Now the only way this could be a Pyramid Scheme is if I get money every month from that referral, and every subsequent referral that my initial referral makes. Then at some point there will be an imbalance.
Even if I was to get £1 every month from my referral as long as they keep subbed, it's still only £1 from £15.00 again a cheap marketing tool.
But I do agree, we should only receive in game benefits and not "hard cash", I don't want to see people abusing/misusing the system for personal monetary gains.
From what I gather if someone subscribes, using your referral code you’ll receive either something in game, be that in game currency, titles or what ever. You can even convert that in game benefit to hard cash. But only once per referral not recurring every month. So for instance I refer someone and they sub, I get say £/$/€ that’s it end of, AOC still have the other £13.99 that month and £15.00 every month then on, so it’s cost them £1, thats a cheap marketing tool for them.
Now the only way this could be a Pyramid Scheme is if I get money every month from that referral, and every subsequent referral that my initial referral makes. Then at some point there will be an imbalance.
Even if I was to get £1 every month from my referral as long as they keep subbed, it’s still only £1 from £15.00 again a cheap marketing tool.
But I do agree, we should only receive in game benefits and not “hard cash”, I don’t want to see people abusing/misusing the system for personal monetary gains.[/quote]
I personally do not believe at the moment that the referral system is a scheme. It could very well be if one came up with an insidious plan for the cash shop that somehow forces you to spend money. How this could play out without still being called pay to win I can't say. The only thing I can think of is that since if the person you are referring refers someone else and receives benefits from them, you receive less. So probably they can pay you a lot less than you would actually "deserve" because it's impossible for a single person to backtrack. But right now, I am assuming that it's just their way to spread the word without bothering at all about marketing due to no evidence otherwise.
What I do believe though is that offering cash back in an MMO brings out the worst in people and I don't believe that's a good thing. In my opinion they should just scratch that and leave it to in game rewards only. Maybe prestigious things you can only acquire with referral points?
What raises the red flags though is that I think Steven seems to be too smart not to know that and they are still doing it. What raises the red flags is that Steven earned his money with shady business. What raises the red flags is that they are somewhat deceptive by making tech demos look like there is at least a rough game beneath where I believe there is not. What raises the red flags is that they claim the project is fully funded but however, they don't have a working website which can't be found in Time Machine or anywhere else and they don't seem to be hiring at full force while still being very few programmers. What raises the red flags is that when they give answers to tough questions they weave in things Sean Spicer might say. Jasons answer about outsourcing systems and utilities did more harm than good for me. How can you outsource anything regarding integral code in a project like that? That's all very unusual and strange to me.
That being said, I don't believe in a classical scheme. I believe that they might be honestly trying but have neither a clue how to exactly realize this game from a technical standpoint (yet), nor do they have anything near the manpower or expertise they would need (yet), nor do they have anything from the systems they are selling implemented (yet). And for some strange reason although they have been fully funded from the start (so they say), they are not hiring (yet). That's why I find answers to the questions I asked very important for backers. Well, at least for me.
I personally do not believe at the moment that the referral system is a scheme. It could very well be if one came up with an insidious plan for the cash shop that somehow forces you to spend money. How this could play out without still being called pay to win I can't say. The only thing I can think of is that since if the person you are referring refers someone else and receives benefits from them, you receive less. So probably they can pay you a lot less than you would actually "deserve" because it's impossible for a single person to backtrack. But right now, I am assuming that it's just their way to spread the word without bothering at all about marketing due to no evidence otherwise.
What I do believe though is that offering cash back in an MMO brings out the worst in people and I don't believe that's a good thing. In my opinion they should just scratch that and leave it to in game rewards only. Maybe prestigious things you can only acquire with referral points?
What raises the red flags though is that Steven seems to be too smart not to know that and they are still doing it. What raises the red flags is that Steven earned his money with shady business. What raises the red flags is that they are somewhat deceptive by making tech demos look like there is at least a rough game beneath where I believe there is not. What raises the red flags is that they claim the project is fully funded but however, they don't have a working website which can't be found in Wayback Machine or anywhere else and they don't seem to be hiring at full force while still being very few programmers. What raises the red flags is that when they give answers to tough questions they weave in things Sean Spicer might say. Jason's answer about outsourcing systems and utilities did more harm than good for me. How can you outsource anything regarding integral code in a project like that? That's all very unusual and strange to me.
That being said, I don't believe in a classical scheme. I believe that they might be honestly trying but have neither a clue how to exactly realize this game from a technical standpoint (yet), nor do they have anything near the manpower or expertise they would need (yet), nor do they have anything from the systems they are selling implemented (yet). And for some strange reason although they have been fully funded from the start (so they say), they are not hiring (yet). That's why I find answers to the questions I asked very important for backers. Well, at least for me.
I mean I've dropped literal thousands on Star Citizen and that game is basically a huge tech demo at this point and it has 10x the amount of the communities money than this with no actual definitive release date yet.
At the end of the day this will be fully funded with or without you so if you can't afford to lose $400 on this due to what you consider "red flags" then withdraw your pledge and just come back either during the Alpha, Beta or hell, either it's funeral or release.
As a note though, if your primary driving force for kickstarting things is the rewards for pledging you are doing it entirely wrong. You research first, then pledge, not pledge then follow the whinge train asking questions afterwards. Have you literally never invested money in something before?