Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
No More Static Crafting
ArchivedUser
Guest
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zXGHMMLPj8FmeYY6wR_hfqri7wq9GIUg4r9zYi-DRgA/edit?usp=sharing
0
Comments
Just some thoughts.
While manual crafting does give you xp.
White, green, blue, magenta, gold qualities.
I really hope they implement a skill based system in crafting, Would be fun to see that Player B becomes well known for his craft and people from far will want to buy his items.
Powerful in some areas and weak in others would be my preference.
Which is what would be crafter/build dependant.
That way it becomes a playstyle dependant gearing system.
Some gloves/shoes will fit better than others.
It also means a crafter who is perfect for one specific build will not be the best crafter for another specific build.
Which opens the door for an unlimited variety of crafters.
Every crafter can have a niche.
Every crafter is required.
You may well have to travel from one end of the lands to the other to find your perfect tailor.
And experiment with everyone in between.
I definitely would like to see materials factor into the outcome of a product a crafter makes. I want materials to have varying qualities/conditions (like you pointed out) but also I'd like to see properties (statistics) as well. Maybe this would make it too complex for some players - but as I always say, I want a crafting system for players that love crafting - not for players that hate it :)
Example:
Iron
Grade: A, B, C (quality)
Properties: Density, Conductivity, Hardness (just examples)
A combination of those factors would determine the "rarity".
For example, maybe a large vein of C-grade Iron was found, but it had high-density. This could be desirable for a particular use or by a particular crafter... but since there's a lot of it, and that's the most common attribute, the rarity might be "Common."
But, say a prospector found a small vein of Iron with extremely high density, and the grade was A... that might be "Epic" and so on.
And those inputs should affect the output of your craft for sure. And not just in "I need less of this material because it's better" but in other ways... it should impart some unique (maybe random) properties, visuals, or something to it.
This is not an easy ask... but is part of my dream crafting system :)
Good post!
Max mean compound grade limit = 25.
You could have 2x 10 grade materials and 1x 5 grade material
You could have 9x 2 grade materials and 1x 7 grade material
The grades determine the rating of individual aspects.
The materials determine the player build harmonics.
Like a fingerprint or combination lock.
Other people will be able to use it....but only one or a limited number of builds will be 100% efficient.
That kind of idea ?
Needs more specifics though.
Max mean compound grade limit = 25.
You could have 2x 10 grade materials and 1x 5 grade material
You could have 9x 2 grade materials and 1x 7 grade material
The grades determine the rating of individual aspects.
The materials determine the player build harmonics.
Like a fingerprint or combination lock.
Other people will be able to use it….but only one or a limited number of builds will be 100% efficient.
That kind of idea ?
Needs more specifics though.
[/quote]
Yes... along those lines... great stuff! People smarter than I would have to figure out the details... but I feel there's some untapped, deep gameplay here!
Trees = logs
3 logs = lumber
1 X type of oil + 10 lumber = fine lumber
1 Q type of oil + nother item + 10 fine lumber = Grand Lumber
To make X type of oil you need X amount of 2 too 4 difrent types of materials.
To make Q type of oil you need X amount of 2-4 difrent types of materials + 1 or +5 Type X Oil.
That's my 2 cents
-Ravossel.
Trees = logs
3 logs = lumber
1 X type of oil + 10 lumber = fine lumber
1 Q type of oil + nother item + 10 fine lumber = Grand Lumber
To make X type of oil you need X amount of 2 too 4 difrent types of materials.
To make Q type of oil you need X amount of 2-4 difrent types of materials + 1 or +5 Type X Oil.
That’s my 2 cents
-Ravossel.
[/quote]
We'll probably see that type of thing to some extent, since Processing is one of the 3 Artisan paths... but hopefully not as overtly "grindy".
I'd like to see resources come from the wild with potentially just as much variety.
In your example, Trees = Logs. But I'd see more:
Maple Trees = Maple Logs
Grade A Maple Logs
Grade B Maple Logs
Grade C Maple Logs
And so on...
So in every step of the processing process you have a choice to use a different quality resource to potentially affect the output of your processing!
The higher grade stuff would be more rare, and harder to get. The good crafters would have a good supply chain or stockpile of the best stuff, so players looking for the best would know to seek out this particular crafter.
etc... !
Now jest to stay on topic about grades, I'll keep it in the realm of trees, logs, and lumber.
Now the whole Maple tree = maple logs of grades 1 too X, seams bit much, for it'll lead to Black Jack tree gives Black Jack Logs 1 too X, and Pine tree gives pine tree longs 1 too X. Then you'll have item W needs maple log grade 2, while item W needs pine tree log X. All of this would lead to a need for massive requirements for inventory space. For both your toon, bank, and storage chest, or Tresure Troves.
To cut back on this need for space, and simplesity while keeping it detailed I would suggest the fallowing.
Five types of Logs.
1) Soft logs or soft wood.
Your soft woods are normal from the fast growing trees, like your Maple trees, Pine trees, Cypress, and Cedar to name a few.
2) Hard logs or Hard wood.
The Hard wood, are normally your slower growing trees, like your Oak trees (White, Bur, Post, Swamp White, , , ect), Ash, and Aspen to name a few.
3) Iron logs or Iron wood.
Are from a list of trees that are incredibly hard, like the Black Iron wood, Itin, Lead Wood, Desert Iron wood, and Parrotia Persica or Persion Iron wood.
4) Cooking longs or Smoaking wood.
Would be wood that's quite lidderly used for cooking on the gril, and some wood types are Maple, Black Jack/Scrub Oak, white oak, Mesquite, Cherry, , ,and more.
5) Unique.
Unique wood would be wood that's gathered from a tree that's been in a event.
Like a Pine tree or a Ever great tree getting hit by lightning would make lighter knot wood. For the ones that don't know, Lighter Knot is HIGHLY flammable and burns for a very long time.
Now let's say any other tree that be comes hit by lighting, it makes a Lighting struck tree.
Or a tree that growers near a high magic / Mana source could be come infected with sed Magic and or Mana.
Ok I'll cut it off hear be for I go into what the difrent types of wood can be made into.
-Ravossel
So, in my mind recipes wouldn't (necessarily) call for specifics. For example, any "wood log" (in your example, any soft log... or maybe ANY log) could be used in place where wood logs are needed. This would be up to the crafter to decide what type of wood to use (based on it's properties) and of what quality to use as well. Maybe an Elven Bow recipe called for "Northern Elven Pine" to be an authentic bow which might instill some kind of bonus to it. But you can use any Pine, or in worst case any Log, to actually make the item.
And yes, inventory space can be a problem... this is often brought up by designers when discussing this kind of system.
The way I see this potentially working is that all "Maple Logs" could be one item in your warehouse. There would be UI elements that indicate how much of a given quality you have, and a crafting UI filter to dictate how much of a given quality to use. So the player only has one pile or stack of Maple Logs, but the a database behind the scenes allows you to use/split them by their stats.
-_- sorry every one this post was longer then what I wanted it to be.
* Your soft wood Trees will only give soft wood logs, but the logs need to be made into Lumber be for use.
Soft Lumber made from the Soft wood logs can be made into Teir 1 low weight fast attack weapons " Bowes, clubs, spears. " with low Damage, or for small fast craft like Clippers, and Gliders. This would also include lower grade fishing pole frames, stools, benches, beds, painting frames, and so on. Thees and other items would still require X amount of Soft Lumber.
* Higher teir items would need higher Teir Soft Lumber.
T1 - Soft Lumber comes from 5 soft wood logs.
T2 - Fine Soft Lumber comes from 10 soft Lumber + X amount of Type X Oil.
T3 - Grand Soft Lumber Comes from 5 Fine soft lumber + X amount of type Q oil + Type A magic potion.
T4 - Mythic Soft Lumber Comes from 10 Grand Soft Lumber + a long list of other materials.
This Prosses would repeat for your Heavy, and Iron Woods.
(( I want to go in depth about thees two types of wood as well, but I'll wait in order to cut back on the length of this post.))
Back on to the topic of Trees.
Some trees I would suggest would have a chance to give other materals.
# Rubber trees would be a soft wood, and would give Soft Wood Logs, but their would be a chance for them to give X amount of Natral Rubber. The odds, and amount of Natral Rbber being gathered should be bassed on one's logging skill.
# Maple Trees would be a soft wood, and would give Soft Wood Logs, but their would be a chance for them to give X amount of Maple wood. The odds, and amount of Maple wood being gathered bassed on logging skill.
P.s In winter I would suggest that a Maple Tree could be taped for it's sapp,, , , hummmm Maple Syrup.
# White Oak would be a Hard Wood, and would give Hard Wood Logs, but their would be a chance for them to give X amount of White oak Wood, and agin bassed on one's logging skill.
Now not every tree type should do this, agin the need for massive inventory space will be simply to much.
Only a few trees, may be some thing like 5 too 10 on the out side may be 15 may be.
Any who
Thees named peaces of wood ( Maple, White oak, Cherry ) can be split into cooking wood, to make smoaked Chiken, Fish, smoaked pulled pork, , , so on. Like White oak cooking wood for Smoaking a brisket, and Maple cooking wood for Smoaking a Chiken.
The same and or other named wood can be made into named Lumber. Like White oak Lumber, Black Cerry Lumber, Cedar Lumber can be used use for more higher quality beds, chairs, benches, tables, , , But agin to save space, and to keep the Scripers' minds, and player minds from melting, and our inventories 5 too 10 difrent named lumbers, 15 at the most some may say 20 that's getting a bit much.
We're only talking about Trees, logs, and lumber. Now expanded this into Metals, Gems, and Difrent type plants, and crops , , , it becomes rather expansive. That is why I keep stressing over limited amounts ((5 too 10, may be 15. )) of named woods, and lumbers
-Ravossel
I do like the idea of other reagents needed to product the higher tier products. Seems to play into the "Processing" track really nicely, and allow for skilled processors to be in-demand based on their effort and skill. But I do also like the gameplay involved in harvesting and finding a tree, discovering that it is indeed of "Mythic" quality (sort of like the loot drop surprise, same feeling :) Maybe that could be a rare proc based on the skill/equipment/experience of the harvester as well. But not so much that it takes away the processor's livelihood.
The main thing for me in this is to try and have difference in output of crafted items that is a result of everything from the resource input to crafter skill to equipment to tools and workshops they use, etc. So if someone really wanted to try to make the ultimate Mahogany Chair of Worthiness, they have several steps where they could try to assure and insert materials or processes to have the best shot at getting that result.
For some objects (like chairs) this might be a simple "grading" indicator or numbers, since it might be tough to visually indicate quality of some items. But for the collectors of fine furniture, this number on a certificate of authenticity is probably enough! "You have a Grade A-99 Lethality-crafted Underrealm armchair?!?" etc.
I really like your ideas, and I think we're on the same page! I can't wait to learn more about how these resources will play into it.
Did we talk about "properties' of materials at all, such as density, conductivity, etc and how/if those should play into the crafter's choice?
The grade sytem you have brought forth, dose have it's merits, and flaws like with any other crafting sytem that's out their. User friendly, easy to under stand, and to implement. Were it starts to run into ishews is the amount of space it'll take up in the player's inventory, mind melting bordum on the scripting side, and not all of the crafting materals will remain relevant.
The trick here is have a in depth, and engaging crafting / gathering system, were every thing and anything is needed. While saving on inventory space rather it's done by total weight of all items, or number of slots. (( That's a totally difrent topic all to gather. ))
Now with all that sed, and with what the Devas are trying to do, and you bring up the mana areas I'll go head and expand upon the train of thought that I started with.
(( Pleas do note that I'm still talking about Trees, and some of the Possibilities on unique trees and logs.))
(( I'll only talk about four different areas to cut back on the Post size. ))
The fallowing areas would be places that come and go, or can linger for a time with a few perniment ones.
* Mana area: Would primarily be around were unformed Rifts, and or Portals are, or did forum, or has formed at some point.
A tree grown here may give 1 too X amount of mana log(s), in turncan be made into items that give a bounce to max mana, and or mana regen rate.
* Magic area: Would primarily be around were large magi battles took place, or around some old ruins or even a possible relic item.
A tree grown here may give 1 too X amount of Magic log(s), in turn can be made into items that give a bounce tomagic. Being office or defense pending upon the item, and the whims of the crafter.
*Fire area: Would primarily be around were lava flows, near volcanoes, or were a lot of magi fire was used in battle.
A type of tree that growers here may/would give 1 too X amount of fire log(s), in turn can be made into items that give a office or defiance bounce to fire.
*Commbined (( very rare )): Is a area that combines aspects of two or more areas into one.
Avery rare tree that Holds more then one of thees properties from the above areas.
### Thees bounces from thees difrent type of trees, and others would not count to the maxim effects / enchments or abilities that can be placed upon item. For they are a rewarded for going out and hunting them down, or for being a savvy merchant. ###
For the ones that truly love Unique items, think about this.
In earlier post I barely touched upon Lighting Struck trees. Logic with magic would be that Log(s) "Lighting struck logs " can be crafted into items that can give office or defiance bounces upon a item that's made from thees.
Now what if a Mana tree, Magic Tree, Fire tree, or a Commbined Tree, was also struck by lighting?
Jest to recap thees difrent Trees would be rare, and some of them truly and udderly unique. The items made from sed logs could be jest as unique.
-Ravossel
P.s This was jest on trees, now expand this to ores, stones, gems, and possibly Clays and other assorted crafting materals.
We not talk about properties, that into it's self can be expasinve topic, but I'll tap on it. This time , , , haaaa , , yehp I'll stay on my trees in the hopes to keep my post short, clear, and on topic.
Properties like Density, conductivity to are elements more akean to low or no magic settings, unlike here were I get the feeling it's high too very high magic setting.
i'll stop here this would be off topic and should be placed into another section all to gather.
-Ravossel
Firstly multiple types and quality of resources create an inventory problem but that is solvable three ways:
1. Dedicated resource inventory like everquest next but that's extra work every time you add a new resource item. Must be updated and glitches out.
2. The stack stores more than size. It stores 4 additional meta data: minimum quality, Maximum quality, average quality and median. This holds enough data to retrieve items in approximate quality but may lose or gain quality in the mid range. A destacking sort function then retrieves the highest quality item until you get to the median then it randomises the final between the median and the min result until the median = the min quality.
3. simple stacks as bags. Two low quality leather make a "bag / pile" that holds only leather and can store quality data for each slot. And has a good number of slots. Likewise two ore make an ore basket. Two grass makes a plant bundle. Two logs make a log pile. Etc. This is the preferred option because it can store any metadata and needs no fiddling when dev add a new resource unless its a new resource class.
These will need to track total weight as well as slots. These bags auto fill when you're harvesting with a message when you get an exceptional drop. Open the pile, basket,bundle, etc to retrieve the top quality stuff. An empty bundle can be crafted back into two base materials.
Not all games will use the same color progression. Your storing these with numerical values in code under the hood anyway.
May I suggest:
Wood. = Pole, soft wood, hard wood, fine wood , exceptional wood, imbued wood.
Stone. = Rubble, sandstone, soft stone, hard stone, basalt/quartz( very hard), marble, imbued stone.
Ore. = Pebble ore, impure ore, base ore, precious ore, rich ore , exceptional ore.
Leather. = Damaged hide, crude hide, good hide, Quality hide, fine hide, water proof hide.
Tool parts/ loot. = Crude, basic, quality, high quality, master crafted.
Gems etc. = Flawed, basic, quality, precious, rare, exceptional, Imbued.
The lowest level pole, rubble, pebble, Damaged hide, Crude and Flawed can all be harvested or made without tools but are rare except the leather. If you use a high powered spell or attack on a low level mob you should get only damaged hide and Crude loot. You vaporised the good stuff. (This leaves more low level mobs for the noobs. )
Pole is a starting wood tool source. Just an uprooted sapling or fallen branch.
Higher ore levels give more ingots and melt faster.
Sandstone can be used to craft a sanding stone for woodworking. Sandpaper is a very new thing.
A variety of tools should be available at the mid level to give fine crafting diversity: chisels, draw knives, hand drills, rasps, sanding stone, polishing stones, jewelers tools, etc so we can open up a lot of crafting diversity.
Imbued means it's got magic already in it that can be drawn out to make better magic items.
[/quote]
Bank and mail systems will be a challenge. If the bank slot is global then it will go around the restrictions on trade. Likewise global mail with no global trade created a 'cheat' breaking the process of distance trade. It can be fixed but it will be complex and someones sure to complain.
Mail sytem will more then lily be letters ONLY.
Bag of Holding or baskets in, inventory most likely NOT, do to the PvP sytem, and how you can drop items randomly.
Inventory is more then likely done by a weight cap bassed on your toons strength, and limmited slots/spaces.
Their may be items like " Bags of Holding " that add extra slots or inventory tabs like NwN2, or increase weight carry limits.
------------
As for the difrent grades of materals, agin it has it's merits, and disadvantages. Like it's simple, can be very stream lined, and easly understand. Now for games like this one, that'll have a VERY wide selection of crafting materals to gather, it'll fill your inventory up in the first 30 mins of the game.
I'll explan.
Five too nine difrent grades of a base Materal, multiplied by the amount of raw materals that can be gathered. (( Trees, stone, iron ore, copper, silver, gold, mithrale, obsidian, hide, leather, meat, fish, and not counting all the difrent types of plants, and herbs. )) Thats easly over 180 Raw Materal items. Will lead to much frustrations, give that their is no fast traveling, along with being long distances from one's home NOD or FreeHold.
With all that sed.
Keeping the base raw materals Simple, will save inventory clutter, and keep all raw materals relevant. The top teir wooden weapon, or top teir craft able iron gear will all still need basic raw materals that have been crafted into higher teir crafting materals.
Not only that, but you'll have so much more room to hunt down the Unquie raw materals that I posted in a nother post.
All of this combined will still allowe for a more dynamic crafting, and gathering sytem.
-Ravossel
Its fundamentally about everything having sets of 8 attributes.
All of which ultimately rely on time or location.
Everything is basically tuned as 8 pairs to crafter and material.
The distribution of the 8, sets up a harmonic for everything.
Where harmonics match or resonate....the result is optimum.
But the place and time also impacts this.
Time relates to professions and their time of year.
Space relates to biomes/race and natural habitat.
Its basically a nature vs nurture resonance system.
Although the effects are infinitely complex.
The methodology is actually ridiculously simple.
I could see it instead "enchanting" it with an attribute?
Good points in your comments on my post above.
I could see it instead “enchanting” it with an attribute?
[/quote]
The latest hit minecraft mod pack Invasion by Darkosto has torches that set wood on fire. Several of minecraft's best and brightest youtubers are plagued by burning buildings and forest fires. And the mod pack has a pyromaniac mob in it with a flint and steel. I hope AoC doesn't hire darkosto to make the bosses.