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How long to reach max level

How long do you think it should take to reach max level? Personally I've grown tired of games where your level 5 before you even kill your first mob, hit level 30 within a hour, and reach max level within a few days. I miss the long leveling process from games like vanilla wow, games where hitting max level actually felt like a achievement.
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Comments

  • with normal playing (3-4 hours/day) i would love to reach max lvl in no less than 6-12 months like the old pre WoW games (EQ, FFXI, Lineage, etc).
  • It'a a tough thing to balance out if player level factors heavily into player power... and that has certainly been the case across most vertical-progression oriented games.

    There have been halfhearted attempts in GW2, WildStar, even WoW and now ESO to effectively neuter player power based on level with various "scaling" mechanics. It's safe to say none of them really work out well, and introduce all kinds of other problems.

    I'd love to see a game where level is just that - a badge of honor (the ultimate "achievement", if you will). Where it wouldn't factor into player power at all, but if you saw a 74th level Wizard run by, you'd KNOW that guy had BEEN THERE and DONE THAT!

    In this way, I also think there'd be room for player levels to exist without a cap.

    Black Desert's soft cap system provides some of this feeling, but of course it players directly into player power. But when you see, say, a level 62 player... you are generally impressed! Right before you die ;)
  • it would be awesome to see leveling take a year to hit max level. :)

    EQ (or DAoC, cant remember which one) had a mechanism where the 10th levels (10, 20,30 etc) that took like twice or more times the amount of effort to level past.
  • I guess I sort of forgot to answer the OP's question directly! :)

    If player power is influenced by level, and other content is influenced by player power, then the leveling time has to be short so everyone can be on a relatively similar playing field.

    If they can disconnect player power from level as I mentioned above, then level cap should be a long-term goal more than a checkbox you have to "knock out".

    Hopefully the concept of end-game and everyone funneling into the same "high level" content will also be mitigated in AoC. By having a level cap -- especially one you can reach quickly -- it suggests all players should be at that level to play the game.
  • I don't want to hit lvl 2 in less than 1 hour. And i would like exponential time between levels after that.
    I would like to have the majority of my kit/primary skills at lvl 10.

    Though can't really specify until we know what Max* level is.
  • If we look at past games / releases the most important factor behind this is what / how much of the game are you able to participate at any point. Is a huge amount of content end-game ? Are you meant to not grind your heart out but instead enjoy the 'journey' ? Somewhere in between? At any rate - what's important is that the amount of content available to the player at any one time remains relatively consistent while growing based on your new found powers. I'm a hardcore player, always have been - the release of Warhammer Online, SWOTR, GW2, TESO all can teach us something about leveling speeds, what felt good, what felt silly and how these feelings related to where the content you as a player wanted to experience.

    I think this whole Vanilla WoW movement and pre-WoW interest as of late indicates that there is a decently sized player base that wouldn't mind a grind, a longer process than recent MMOs. Yet if there is end-game content (which is vital to the success of this game) we need to ensure that it doesn't take a relatively casual player no more than 6-8 months of leveling. I'm not attempting to cater to casuals - but keep in mind that this game seems to require a sprawling population to be at it's best. If this were the case you could expect your hardcore population to hit cap in the first say... 3/4 months, then they start raiding, end game PvP, controlling the marketes, producing youtube videos and guides ... all of this comes into circulation and reaches your more casual player who (hopefully) says 'Wow, that's sick! I need to grind harder so I can do that too!' or 'Oh man I messed up! I need to reroll!' -- That means more people playing, more often, creating a more realistic feeling world. The pacing needs to match the amount of content that's available to you at max essentially.
  • It should feel meaningful to level. I'd say perhaps it should take ages to level.
  • No more than 6 months. Maybe similar to Vanilla WoW, I felt that was a good compromise between slow and fast leveling.
  • 6 months to a year would be good for me. My opinion is the next level is the goal and max level is something that just might happen.
  • Hmm, I'm betting most of this has mostly been decided already.
    Just guessing
  • Totally agree!
    One year to reach max level if you are playing 2~4 hours a day.
  • 300 hours minimum to level. This will force people to spend 3+ months leveling and keep the game fresh for a long time since you are not rushing to end game just to raid because raiding in Ashes is not WOW raiding.
  • [quote quote=20715] 6 months to a year would be good for me. My opinion is the next level is the goal and max level is something that just might happen.

    [/quote]

    That great for us old time gamers but the new generation of MMO gamers that are all about getting to max level and end game as fast as they could would whine like never before or end up dying in front of their computers ...
  • [quote quote=20743]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/how-long-to-reach-max-level/#post-20715" rel="nofollow">doford wrote:</a></div>
    6 months to a year would be good for me. My opinion is the next level is the goal and max level is something that just might happen.

    </blockquote>
    That great for us old time gamers but the new generation of MMO gamers that are all about getting to max level and end game as fast as they could would whine like never before or end up dying in front of their computers …

    [/quote]

    It does not matter. This game like several other MMORPGs being made right now are not made for the new generation of gamers. They either need to adapt or move on.
  • I think it was said that a metropolis would take months to develop, I think max level should closely coincide with a similar time investment...
  • Well, the key here is that we have to level the nodes as well as our characters.
    Specifically, we have to get at least 5 nodes to level 25.
    And it takes a few months to accomplish that - regardless of what the players actually do. I think the progression of the nodes is hardcoded and changes pop during the weekly updates.

    And, of course, we can de-level nodes as well.
    So, really the concept of max level significantly changes in AoC because we aren't solely focused on max level of our characters.
    Well, be more focused on leveling the nodes. And that's just the 5 major nodes. There will also be a huge number and variety of associated nodes.
    Which is why AoC shouldn't have an endgame. Even the servers that reach 5 metropolises existing together could topple on or more and try to change they type of metropolis. Or even the race the metropolis reflects. And all of that will change the types of tasks, events and narratives the nodes generate.
  • [quote quote=20743]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/how-long-to-reach-max-level/#post-20715" rel="nofollow">doford wrote:</a></div>
    6 months to a year would be good for me. My opinion is the next level is the goal and max level is something that just might happen.

    </blockquote>
    That great for us old time gamers but the new generation of MMO gamers that are all about getting to max level and end game as fast as they could would whine like never before or end up dying in front of their computers …

    [/quote]

    Agreed but also think. The new generation (feel weird saying that as Ive only been in MMOs for 5-6 years) are the generation that will blast through the game to level cap in 1 month, play it another month then move on to something else. They will have no longevity in the game. Then when an expansion comes out they re-sub for 1-3 months, then leave again. Do we really want those players here or long term players?

    I myself bought the lifetime sub simply because this game feels to me like Eve: Online and WoW got together and had a kid. I loved Eve except for the fact that only a few people in the game truly had power back when I was playing. Played it for years and loved it. I plan on sticking to this one for a long while and running with it.
  • We've been blasting through these games for 20 years now.
    it's easy to stay with a game for a couple of years when there are less than a handful of games in the genre.
    Traditional MMORPGs have static content. AoC should provide constantly changing content based on the level and type of the node.
    Even within a city, different areas could change drastically depending on who is governing the city.
    Players can effectively create their own expansion by destroying a city and re-building it as a new type, reflecting a different race thematically.
  • Remember one thing the dev don't want us to feel like your grinding. The dev are going to have a find mid point between making leveling take time and not feel like a grind.

    For them old time SWG players. remember how long it took to level your Jedi Initiate one box at a time and then to get to Jedi Padawan. I started hating Endor mobs....

    Bring back the good times!
    <img src="https://puu.sh/vML2V/3838dfe08f.png" alt="Jedi skill tree" />
  • I hope it takes a while to level so we can actually utilize armor sets and weapons, its annoying to go through crafting a whole armor set and in just a few lvls it becomes useless. I would say that it should take at least a year to hit cap and for hardcore gamers it should take 4-6 months.
  • Time isn't the only factor for how "difficult" or how to level. Introducing time as the primary driver introduces a slew of other problems. Think out a bit out of the standard, there are other ways to handle leveling without requiring a set amount of hours to be glued to the screen.
  • I seem to recall Steven mentioning on stream or a Q&A that he wanted leveling to max to be meaningful and to take a while.

    If this game is going to be my game for a long time I'm okay with it taking a few months to hit max level. From what they have said so far it sounds like there will be lots to do and see so I don't mind not rushing it.

    As a suggestion maybe add a 10% xp boost to alt leveling for each max level character you have.
  • I dunno. I don't necessarily have to gain levels to enjoy progression.
    Leveling various areas of the zone. Acquiring new gear. Obtaining new skills - the skills don't have to make me stronger - even just different things to do rather than more powerful things to do. Exploration...

    I'm just hoping there is plenty more to do than just kill 50 xxx.
  • I'm torn between a long leveling experience and a fast one. Part of me likes the idea of a really long leveling experience because you really know your character by end game and the journey adds value to the game. But, a fast experience lets you keep up with people that have way more time to play than you do. I always feel like a third wheel if I can't keep up with my guild or friends because they have to come back and do some dungeon, for example, they have already mastered and are bored with just to help me.

    So with that in mind, I feel like there should be separate leveling systems in the game. Leveling your main class could be really fast. Secondary class, religion, society and guild could be very slow. This way, I can do the same content as anyone else, but still have to work for all the extra perks that come with taking the time to experience all the game has to offer. If people get to the end of the secondary stuff ahead of me, no big deal. So long as I can still compete against them.
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/how-long-to-reach-max-level/#post-20648">Lethality wrote:</a></div>It’a a tough thing to balance out if player level factors heavily into player power… and that has certainly been the case across most vertical-progression oriented games.

    There have been halfhearted attempts in GW2, WildStar, even WoW and now ESO to effectively neuter player power based on level with various “scaling” mechanics. It’s safe to say none of them really work out well, and introduce all kinds of other problems.

    I’d love to see a game where level is just that – a badge of honor (the ultimate “achievement”, if you will). Where it wouldn’t factor into player power at all, but if you saw a 74th level Wizard run by, you’d KNOW that guy had BEEN THERE and DONE THAT!

    In this way, I also think there’d be room for player levels to exist without a cap.

    Black Desert’s soft cap system provides some of this feeling, but of course it players directly into player power. But when you see, say, a level 62 player… you are generally impressed! Right before you die <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f609.svg" />

    </blockquote>
    I like this and I don't if players poor hours into something expecting to get stronger thin this system sucks. Why spend hours leveling if we get nothing from it? If that is the case if you get nothing from it don't put it in the game no levels just gear for improving your character. If I work hard to get rare mats and fight epic legendary monsters for rare mats that you get for killing it thin that should be what helps a player be stronger. "Your only as strong as the sword you wield and as resilient as the gear on you back"
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/how-long-to-reach-max-level/#post-20648">Lethality wrote:</a></div>It’a a tough thing to balance out if player level factors heavily into player power… and that has certainly been the case across most vertical-progression oriented games.

    There have been halfhearted attempts in GW2, WildStar, even WoW and now ESO to effectively neuter player power based on level with various “scaling” mechanics. It’s safe to say none of them really work out well, and introduce all kinds of other problems.

    I’d love to see a game where level is just that – a badge of honor (the ultimate “achievement”, if you will). Where it wouldn’t factor into player power at all, but if you saw a 74th level Wizard run by, you’d KNOW that guy had BEEN THERE and DONE THAT!

    In this way, I also think there’d be room for player levels to exist without a cap.

    Black Desert’s soft cap system provides some of this feeling, but of course it players directly into player power. But when you see, say, a level 62 player… you are generally impressed! Right before you die <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f609.svg" />

    </blockquote>

    I like this and I don't if players poor hours into something expecting to get stronger thin this system sucks. Why spend hours leveling if we get nothing from it? If that is the case if you get nothing from it don't put it in the game no levels just gear for improving your character. If I work hard to get rare mats and fight epic legendary monsters for rare mats that you get for killing it thin that should be what helps a player be stronger. "Your only as strong as the sword you wield and as resilient as the gear on you back"
  • It depends...

    If this game was all about end level raiding and PvP then the faster the better but since it is not...

    Trying to find a perfect rate of experience points per hour played is going to be a fool's errand; Some people will complain that it is taking much too long while on the other extreme other players will say it is too fast (for the various reasons previously posted).

    Intrepid should aim for a rate that makes every 5th (10th ?) level feel like an achievement in and of itself while making most levels fun to play through by having interesting and compelling content. Heck, if the content was especially fun to play players might ask for an option to turn off experience point gains just to be able to keep enjoying the content and not level out of it.

    Simply, I'd like to be able to see at least 300 and up to 450 hours of purely <em>leveling</em> content - A bit faster at low levels while slowing down as we get closer to end level. Granted, (should max level be 50) at 5 hours/day it would "only" take 60 to 90 days to max level but feel this is a good balance between it being fun and it feeling like the achievement it should be.

    All the other content (crafting, exploration, etc) would take as long as it takes to complete it. As well as adding days to max level without a need to artificially slow down leveling, of course.
  • I truly hope we see something like 7-10 days of played time to max level and maybe like another 10 more days of played time just to get gear. I feel like 20 days played is a good point to get to max level and good gear. I loved vanilla wow for how long it took to get to max level and how it took just as long to get the gear you needed at 60 to be successful (atleast it took me just as long). I hope thus game can recapture that sense.
  • @Fwuppers - 20 days played time is crazy fast compared to some of the older games where leveling was hard.

    I don't know how many times with these games I've seen players say that they want the leveling experience to be slow at this stage of the games life, but by the time it launches we end up with a super fast leveling experience because people want to get to the end. Now days, leveling is a tutorial.
  • I'm on board with us old timers. My first Infil in DAOC was solo leveled (nobody wanted an assassin in group) and took me roughly a 6-8 months to get fully to 50 and that was a good 5+ hours a day grinding out mobs (quests where a joke back then). Grouping helps the leveling experience, when I played a healer I could get to 50 within about 4-5 months, but even then it was long hours grinding on random stuff until a group left a spawn and you could camp it. Don't know exactly how the Devs are going to handle spawns and camps and such for grinding, or questing xp for that matter, but like it was said above we don't want the newer generation of players that are here today gone tomorrow to show up and max out in a month and then leave. They need to come back in 6 months and see all the hard core players in raid gear out there owning the server and decide that's what they want to do and put the time in to do it. Where's my cane, there's some kids on my lawn, damn kids don't know a hard days work these days.
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