Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
How does Intrepid plan on limiting how much the corruption system can be abused as a weapon instead of just a deterrent?
Probably a bit early for clear answers on the nuances of systems. I would suggest using guild vs guild mechanics and maybe they need a mechanic that a node can use for declaring "lone wolves" as Node outlaws. Same result as the guild vs guild mechanic.
Bringslite wrote:
Choosing to NOT be in a guild so that you can escape any given Node’s idea of “Justice” is also a problem.
I am an old hand at this type of discussion. The game I am playing now has developed a pretty complicated system that covers just about all of this stuff, but it has taken a long time and lots of debate to get there. In this game, a person (past a certain level) who is not in a Company(plz read guild) that is part of a “player city” can’t advance past a certain level. This is for two reasons: The game design wants that player involved in the larger world after a certain time and the game does not want you to be really effective as a character unless you can be held accountable for your actions.
That makes rowdy players unable to duck responsibility for what they do. They can get their Guild involved in conflict, their guild could kick them, the city could kick that Guild or other cities could siege and take that whole city away if it is too annoying. Underneath all of this is a reputation system that punishes you for random murder. A multi layered approach and absolutely VERY weakly summarized here by me.[/quote]
That line of thinking reminds of the guilds who refuse to allow their members to have alts because alts can be used as spies.
I think you choose not be in a guild just because you choose not to be in a guild. Just like you have alts because you like playing different roles.
So, the corruption mechanic is not adequate on its own. Forced guild enrollment is a proposed addition...
I'll have to spend some time thinking about how I think your concept of guilds would entice or dissuade PvErs from playing with hardcore PvPers. I guess what I think would be interesting to see is what that level restriction would be in AoC.
Seems like that's setting up artificial PvP zones. Hmmmn.
Food for thought.
Thanks!!
No PvP guards are going to be screaming at a baker or armorer when he doesn’t heal them or taunt during a PvP battle. That does not work for a PvE cleric or a PvE tank.
PvP folk are not going to escort a PvE cleric or a PvE tank who does not participate in the PvP battle.
Unless you’re telling me that happens. I keep asking about that. And people keep ignoring it.
Again, people keep presenting this escort concept as if the escort will always win.
When my experience has been that people get kicked from groups for not having BiS gear or the optimal spec for the class.
Is this what happens? PvE cleric and PvE tank refuse to participate in the PvP battle. The group wipes and everyone is OK with that?
Anyways. Really that’s a derail that should be moved to the other thread. I’m just answering questions but this is not the thread.
This thread is about the corruption system and Improvements to it.
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You also think this game will be about BIS gear. Guess what? That will not be true since they already said that gear will not be for stats. Armor will be just about protection not about adding +100 to your STR. This is a game a skill and Risk. And no not everyone will win every encounter. Its about who you become friends with and employ to help you out.
What it comes down to honestly is you dont want to play this game because if you did then you wouldn't be consistantly trying to get a PVE server because you would RISK something in this game. Well Yes that is this game if you dont like it there are other games out there for you.
I don't care enough about BiS gear to think this game will be about BiS gear.
Gear is the example Steven used. I didn't say anything about BiS gear. Have barely thought about it beyond LexLocke mentioning some of the best materials will come from dungeons and raids.\
I am not talking about a PvE server. Y'all keep bringing up PvE server.
I am not talking about a PvE server. Y’all keep bringing up PvE server.
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Uhuh and you were not the one that didnt go on and on and on about it in another post. Right. If you cant read most people dont buy anything you been saying.
I say something on May 6 and y'all still can't repeat it back correctly on May 12. I stop talking about it and y'all keep bringing it up.
This thread is about the Corruption mechanics, so I don't know why you are talking about a PvE-Only server... or BiS gear.
What about PvP combat in AoC will make you happy that is different than in previous games you've played?
Specifically, you will still be attacked while harvesting, but instead of that being because someone wants to loot you it will be because your harvesting as a negative impact on their objectives/node/region.
Also, if you encounter an avatar who is doing something that negatively affects your region, like spreading blight amongst your forests, will you be willing to gain corruption to stop them if they don't fight you back?
How do you envision resolving that encounter?
I am getting the impression that you are now(maybe for awhile) not happy about and focusing on the more meaningful parts of the PVP like friction between Nodes, wars, guild wars, etc... Is that what you are getting at?
The early Lineage 2 model included either combatant and/or non-combatant dropping gear upon death.
The later model was that only the "red" combatant had potential to drop gear upon death.
This was a successful model in game that worked well to provide a risk and reward approach to pvp.
Did the system protect players who did not wish the compete in pvp, yes.
Did it create a risk to those who outright player killed, yes. They took on a large risk in doing so and would only undertake the risk knowing the full consequence of the kill.
The AOC version takes this model a little further and it will further enhance that model.
Did the system protect players who did not wish the compete in pvp, yes.
Did it create a risk to those who outright player killed, yes. They took on a large risk in doing so and would only undertake the risk knowing the full consequence of the kill.
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To be honest it did only create a risk to solo PKers and small groups.
PKing in a raid squad didn´t create that high punishments and you could kill your mate to get/destroy worthless gear he´s wearing for that purpose.
That´s the way how we fought endless bot trains and did "ToI floor cleaning" ^^
I am getting the impression that you are now(maybe for awhile) not happy about and focusing on the more meaningful parts of the PVP like friction between Nodes, wars, guild wars, etc… Is that what you are getting at?[/quote]
Soooo...that's a complicated question.
What I love about the AoC design is that it's a continuation of the EQNext design.
I am a carebear, who typically avoids killing as much as possible.
But, I sometimes enjoy PvP combat in the form of defending towns. For about 60 minutes.
The beauty of PvP conflict/node v node conflict is that it flipped a switch that has me closer to PK mode.
Which is why I keep using that same scenario...
If I have to kill some dryads to siphon their Life energy, convert it to Shadow energy to power my Stealth abilities - I'm going to kill some dryads. And if avatars are going to attack me to prevent that, they will have to die. Same for if I'm on the opposite side and I have to destroy the processor that transmutes Life magic to Shadow energy and avatars attack me to defend there city, I will just have to kill them.
I've been eagerly awaiting that dynamic for 3 or 4 years now.
My concern is that I'm a casual PvPer. I'm only interested in that for 60 minutes. After that, I want to do other stuff without participating in PvP combat at all. Up until about 4 days ago, I hadn't consciously recognized my issue is that 60 minute window for which PvP combat is OK. I just recognized that what pushes me to off of PvP servers is PvPers who attack me even when I'm not in the mood for PvP combat.
So, my concern remains...how do we get PvE Adventurers and casual PvPers happily playing on the same servers as Artisans and hardcore PvP Adventurers.
My current concern is that the Corruption system really only works well to bring Artisans and hardcore PvP adventurers into a symbiotic relationship.
The way the official deterrents we've heard about currently work, PvE folk and casual PvPers could just do some damage and then not fight back when they're attacked and force their attackers to gain corruption. Which I have a feeling is going to cause quite a bit of friction because that's not fair to legitimate PvPers.
For Isende, she says she will be happy with the PvP combat in AoC where she hasn't in previous games. So, I'm just asking what is different for her about being attacked by player avatars in AoC that she will enjoy that she doesn't enjoy when it's a PKer.
TL;DR
I love all the node v node conflict. I'm still concerned about the ramifications of nonconsensual PvP combat with PvPers.
I think corruption deals with PKers fine.
There are some potential problems there whether its because we don't know "jack" about the final system yet or because it is still being hashed out(probably both). From my understanding though, a guild can declare a "war" against another guild and that will nip off some of what you seem to be bringing up. Maybe not a great solution "in the exact moment" but as follow-up and vengeance, pay back, revenge or whatever you want to call it.
What they are going to do about "non guild" players and tricksey "drops from guild" players.... can't wait to see.
I'm still mulling over your post from yesterday about how guilds worked in that other game. Guild wars don't mean much if you aren't in a guild. Revenge is meaningless to me. That is a hardcore mentality, I suppose.
That has nothing to do with my question for Isende.
I’m still mulling over your post from yesterday about how guilds worked in that other game. Guild wars don’t mean much if you aren’t in a guild. Revenge is meaningless to me. That is a hardcore mentality, I suppose.
That has nothing to do with my question for Isende.
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Very true. I gave up trying to answer for Isende. Turning over a new leaf, don'tcha know? :D
My own 2 cents worth on coruption design would be an upfront reduction in performance inflicted on the attacker giving the non combatant a fighting chance at recovering from the suprise attack. This would also make the defender more likely to retaliate rather than just accept their fate. fighting back against a prepaired, buffed (if buffs are a thing) oponent who is already working through their rotation when the defender is already at a 25% to 50% hp deficite dosent seem to offer much incentive. As always just my opinion.
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Well, if you don´t want to pvp then just let yourself be killed. There is no need to defend yourself if you don´t want that. This part of the system is fine as it is.
I hope for some kind of reflect or shield buff on someone i want to kill and maybe this could turn out well for me ;)
What about PvP combat in AoC will make you happy that is different than in previous games you’ve played?
Specifically, you will still be attacked while harvesting, but instead of that being because someone wants to loot you it will be because your harvesting as a negative impact on their objectives/node/region.[/quote]
These are very good questions, and focused me a bit. Rather than answer them directly, let me give you a scenario or two, as my little mind envisions things. In Scenario #1, we have the game launched -- yay! We have a lot of people who're in the game because we're enamored of what Intrepid has offered; we've read, we've spoken, we've debated, and we've wrangled. That's what I consider the "core" of what will become the game's population. Then, we'll also have a lot of people who're buying the game because it's the <strong>NEXT! BIG! THING!</strong> These people will not have been as intimately involved as we've been. In fact, a great many of them won't even have read up on what the game offers, what Intrepid is offering, nothing. These will be the people who run around willy-nilly PKing people because, "Hey, man, it's a PVP game, deal with it dude!"
Then corruption will kick in. And, per Intrepid's design, it'll grow as they PK. They'll be hunted down by bounty hunters. They will <em>most assuredly</em> be very much not happy. They will whine, and scream, and cry, and then leave long notes on the forums about why they're leaving. To which the rest of us will wave them bye-bye and hope to see the door slam'em on the way out.
This scenario is one I've seen repeated time and again. Sadly, however, a couple of things happen in reality. First of all, the gankers/griefers get their demands met because, duh, PVP game, right? Let's disregard that there's a lot more to the game than simply PVP ... their demands are met. Also happens with the end-game crowd, the folk who're convinced that no grind = game suck. Typically, however, one of two things happens. Either the devs accommodate the cryers, or they don't; if they do, then the game is ruined for the core; if the don't, then the PK/grinders wander off to the <strong>NEXT! BIG! THING!</strong>
Scenario #2 goes a bit differently; it takes place after a game company holds their line, or listens to their core. So far, the only game I've experienced that in was Rift. Trion, give them their due, back in the day bent over backwards to keep their core community involved, and happy. They listened to the PVP crowd who got pissed because costumes "hid the true class of the player" they were engaged in PVP against. So they took away our ability to wear costumes in PVP. Then the core crowd spoke up and said "Hey, man, if you can't figure out that that player whaling away on you with a 2h sword is a warrior, then you shouldn't be PVPing." Miraculously, costumes were brought back into PVP.
If we imagine that Intrepid 1) sticks to their guns on their design plans and 2) really listens to we, the core community who've slogged through this for a couple of years, then this is what I foresee happening:
PVP will have purpose; I will happily and gladly lend my abilities to hunting down bounties, or to claiming/keeping a town/metropolis/whatever. I foresee that while not all will do so, the main thrust of players in this game will listen when an unflagged characters says "Hey, man, I'm gathering here, I'm really not interested in fighting you," and will go find someone to fight who <em>wants</em> to fight. Do I think it will completely eliminate unsolicited fights? No. I'm really not that idealistic, though it'd be nice to think so.
I just think that those of us who've been riding this ride and joined the KS and spend time debating these things, here, in the forums; I think that we will find an accommodation that works for us, because we'll be planning on being in this world for quite a while.
I hope that answered your questions; I just figured giving you a peek inside my mind might be better than a direct Q-A type dealie.
Ciao!
That's a damn good answer and a very healthy outlook for a planned survivor of the chaos that is the opening months of an OWPVP game. Could not have done as well myself!
+1
+2
Nice post. Well articulated.
My sentiments exactly.
I am actually looking forward to the PK pwn players being beaten to a pulp by the server PvP players and wandering off in tears of frustration.
Never to be seen again.
Then we can all go siege those annoying oinks that are taking all our resources next door.
And revel in some glorious PvPvE together.
Maybe buy a beer in the tavern for the losers afterward too.
:D
I hope you're correct that player to player (if not avatar to avatar), people listen when someone says, "Hey, please leave me alone, I'm just harvesting."
When this was discussed on the EQNext forums, we were told don't expect honor as part of PvP combat.
These days, I'm streaming or recording while I play. Which means other people will be able to watch the encounters, so there may be some reputation consequences for players who don't play well with others. Also, is easier for devs and GMs to take action if they don't like the way the interaction went down. Especially if it seems to be a common behavior for certain players.
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Change the title if you can. Questions about PVP are going to come up often and answers needed to be provided over and over and over. The average person's research skills or patience are... not real high. :)
Not true for all. I am, for the most part, one of these players. I hate being ganked. It's stressful and I don't particularly care for stress. However, this game, and all it promises to offer appeals to me so greatly that I backed it from day 1 at the Founder level. I have great hopes for what the game and its community can become.
If I can randomly be killed by another player while not engaging in, or desiring to engage in PVP I’m okay with that. However I want the ability to randomly engage THEM in an equally negative experience in game they can’t control.[/quote]
I like the way you think. This is a seriously good idea.
Outstanding post, dear. Pretty sure you nailed it. If we can achieve this state, and I believe we can, the core of players who remain will go on to build an amazing world that always presents something interesting in which to be involved.
That is my most erstwhile hope :-D