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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Steven said game will have no grind!
Speculation commence! How will they do this?
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For myself I won't feel like it's a grind if I don't have to repeat 10,000 of the same actions to attain the next goal. Like I'm a weaponsmith and my best recipe is... steel dagger. If I don't have to make 500 steel daggers to get real gains, I'll be happy enough.
Add: oops, ignored the OP. I would say make achievements a good part of requirement to advance. Like say I want to get my next fighter level, I need the xp and to have defeated some certain thing or things to prove to "The Master" that I am ready to learn more. Just don't make it 10,000 orcs. Make it something at the edge of my current skill range.
Repeating the same thing in the same place over and over because it gives the optimal XP progression.
They dont want that.
Whether that means the XP system wont allow that or
whether they mean you wont need to do that in their game
is a subtle distinction I guess we wont know until alpha.
If they think people do it because they have no choice rather than to reach cap as quick as possible I think they are in for a nasty surprise.
People want to hit cap ...because that s where there friends will be ...and thats what they must do to be on their level so that they can play together.
Steven said, there will be different content for different levels because the lower level players wont be able to achieve the higher level content.
That means its a 'vertical' wall between players.
And players will need to get over that wall ASAP to play with the others.
Thus they will grind the same thing over and over because it gets them there quicker than questing (XP wise).
Unless they make mob XP next to useless.
I dont see any way around that.
That is what a vertical system is and does.
'''Seperates''' players by power level.
It walls players apart.
Thus you can not have vertical progression without grind!
Anyone telling you otherwise is full of shit.
It takes how many weeks/months to build a Metropolis??
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How not?
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That's what I'm thinking. Grinding for 10,000 iron ore is a choice I would make for personal or guild wealth but not to get to the next level plz.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/steven-said-game-will-have-no-grind/#post-23642" rel="nofollow">juschmaster wrote:</a></div>
they dont “force” you to grind ……
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That’s what I’m thinking. Grinding for 10,000 iron ore is a choice I would make for personal or guild wealth but not to get to the next level plz.
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But what about getting to the next level? If that means doing 100 "node tasks", is that not grinding?
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Well my in my experience players tend to call it "grinding" when really what they are doing is forcing character advancement fast by voluntarily "grinding" content or in other words: Pushing to Get There More Faster. You really can't call that grinding in the context that I think Steven means grinding.
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I would venture to guess mobs will provide little to no experience, and your adventuring class will level off of quest turn ins. This would remove the mob grind, that most MMOs leave for power leveling.
I recall hearing that ... <em>a Player's Level will not matter in this Game; If a Low-Lvl with great Skill Vs. a High-LvL with no Skill ... the outcome may be 50/50</em>. Does that suck ? not necessarily - but that was to emphasis - or at least give a vague depiction - as to what "grinding" will be. You got to remember, some of the Devs contributed to making Old-School MMOs (like <em>SWG</em> & <em>Everquest</em>) ...<strong> I think they are trying to implement old-school style mechanics in this MMO</strong>. I think it might be like EverQuest Mechanics.
In short, the "grind" is not going to be Narrow-minded as it has been. Instead, its going to be more Broaden.
Repeating the same thing in the same place over and over because it gives the optimal XP progression.
They dont want that.
Whether that means the XP system wont allow that or
whether they mean you wont need to do that in their game
is a subtle distinction I guess we wont know until alpha.
If they think people do it because they have no choice rather than to reach cap as quick as possible I think they are in for a nasty surprise.
People want to hit cap …because that s where there friends will be …and thats what they must do to be on their level so that they can play together.
Steven said, there will be different content for different levels because the lower level players wont be able to achieve the higher level content.
That means its a ‘vertical’ wall between players.
And players will need to get over that wall ASAP to play with the others.
Thus they will grind the same thing over and over because it gets them there quicker than questing (XP wise).
Unless they make mob XP next to useless.
I dont see any way around that.
That is what a vertical system is and does.
”’Seperates”’ players by power level.
It walls players apart.
Thus you can not have vertical progression without grind!
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And, I think you hit the nail on the head in the first, and last, bit of your post, Rune_Relic. I have no definitive proof, but if you want to eliminate the continuous/monotonous monster grind, you make monster xp far inferior to "task based" xp. For reference, a game that I played that does that is Guild Wars 2.
As for the vertical progression part of your analysis....I agree, and disagree. It's true that most vertical progression games "wall" players apart, simply by the difference between player levels. Players that are only concerned with combat, be it PvE or PvP, will see vertical progression as a wall, if they have friends of differing levels. But, that just pertains to combat. Friends can still play together in out-of-combat scenarios, of which the devs at Intrepid are trying to make plentiful. Granted, it remains to be seen how it works.
I think you hit the nail on the head in the first, and last, bit of your post, Rune_Relic. I have no definitive proof, but if you want to eliminate the continuous/monotonous monster grind, you make monster xp far inferior to "task based" xp. For reference, a game that I played that does that is Guild Wars 2.
As for the vertical progression part of your analysis....I agree, and disagree. It's true that most vertical progression games "wall" players apart, simply by the difference between player levels. Players that are only concerned with combat, be it PvE or PvP, will see vertical progression as a wall, if they have friends of differing levels. But, that just pertains to combat. Friends can still play together in out-of-combat scenarios, of which the devs at Intrepid are trying to make plentiful. Granted, it remains to be seen how it works.
Anyone telling you otherwise is full of shit.
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this opinion is full of blind shit.
[quote quote=23650]But what about getting the to next level (which face it, we all want)? If they want you to do 100 node tasks for the next level, is that not grinding?
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Clearly, you don't understand what a grind is.
grind is when you repeat all over to get "stronger".
this can be easily bypassed, by using quests which are not carbon copies. each character will have it's own quests.
If you expect a grind, you're gonna be grinding. If you enjoy what you're doing, it isn't grinding.
I'm an Altoholic. We are many. We are I.
It takes how many weeks/months to build a Metropolis??
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this is a good point :)
i dont think you can get away from some grindy aspects whether it be gathering or processing or crafting or killing stuff for something or whatever.
it is how that grind is controlled and minimised so it doesnt make you feel like facerolling keyboard
Or if i found the best way to get money was one task constantly I'd do that and 'grind for a house'
I don't have any issue grinding, I did it in SWG for the At-ST, WoW for multiple crafted gear / PvP rank / Reputation.
Lotro , Warhammer Online & Rift for kills / achievements / Reputation, GW2 for Legendary Weapon ingredients.
Just to name a few of the more recognisable games. I don't think grinding is a bad thing. But if there wasn't enough quests and I had to grind monsters to level up like RF:Online or EQ2 / Original FF online then that's the less optional kind of grinding that people probably hate more.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/steven-said-game-will-have-no-grind/#post-23626" rel="nofollow">Slagathore wrote:</a></div>
Grind is in every MMO to date. Every. single. one.
Anyone telling you otherwise is full of shit.
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this opinion is full of blind shit.
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Yet you offer nothing to refute it except your own very flawed opinion of what grinding is and assume everyone else must believe it!
<blockquote>
Clearly, you don’t understand what a grind is.
grind is when you repeat all over to get “stronger”.
this can be easily bypassed, by using quests which are not carbon copies. each character will have it’s own quests.
</blockquote>
Except quests are carbon copies and a grind just the same. If you have a quest to kill 5 boars, it is the same as a quest to kill 10 rats, or deliver "x" to "y" in multiple variations.
A grind is a grind no matter how much lipstick you put on it and is a part of all MMO's.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/steven-said-game-will-have-no-grind/#post-23626" rel="nofollow">Slagathore wrote:</a></div>
Grind is in every MMO to date. Every. single. one.
Anyone telling you otherwise is full of shit.
</blockquote>
this opinion is full of blind shit.
[/quote]
Yet you offer nothing to refute it except your own very flawed opinion of what grinding is and assume everyone else must believe it!
<blockquote>
Clearly, you don’t understand what a grind is.
grind is when you repeat all over to get “stronger”.
this can be easily bypassed, by using quests which are not carbon copies. each character will have it’s own quests.
</blockquote>
Except quests are carbon copies and a grind just the same. If you have a quest to kill 5 boars, it is the same as a quest to kill 10 rats, or deliver "x" to "y" in multiple variations.
A grind is a grind no matter how much lipstick you put on it and is a part of all MMO's.
What they ment with the game not having grind is that they will try to add as many different ways to progress your character that you can choose how you do so or change ways to keep things different. That way it wont feel like you are repeating yourself constantly, hence the game will have no grind in that sense.
Actually, that isn't <em>quite</em> true. My gameplay tends to be such that I'm like "Oh, shit, I dinged again. Need to go sink some more points."
I think there's a disparity in the crowd looking at and for this game with hope in our eyes. For some, there's no knowledge of how to play in a truly sandbox game that doesn't have dailies/weeklies/so on and so forth. I mean, yes, there is separation of what you can do ... but with <em>so very much</em> which you <em>can</em> do, why limit yourself to only one method of gaining XP? For instance, if the methods of gaining XP include PVP, Crafting, Killing Mobs, and Exploration ... then why rely only on killing mobs? You limit the world you see that way. I know, I know, that's my opinion; but here's the crux.
If you think you need a game that offers dailies/weeklies/mobkills as the "best" or "easiest" or "fastest" way of gaining "Max Level," then why not stay in games that utilize those features? Why consider playing in a world that says "Yeah, we're not so interested in doing it that way; in fact, we want other game companies to look at us and realize where they've gotten it wrong."
We do not, in fact, all of us rely on gaining max level to enjoy the game we're in.
Plus the Adventurer level will have horizontal progression in addition to vertical progression. And, it's looking likely we will have social progression added as a feature.
X monster or C quest is only in that area during winter or when it's not raining. Keep them npcs moving just like in life, animals migrate and people move to new nodes. It's important to keep the world moving as Steven stated and having a living breathing world that grows as we do that aspect will be important, in excited to see what is really in store for us.
I'd just wait for them to return.
Come on folks, some of you have claimed to have played MMO's for decades. There is always some form of grind, you keep players on grinding until you can produce new content. Dont be bad consumers, trust your instincts and your histories.
No grind in an MMO, come on man. LOL
Come on folks, some of you have claimed to have played MMO’s for decades. There is always some form of grind, you keep players on grinding until you can produce new content. Dont be bad consumers, trust your instincts and your histories.
No grind in an MMO, come on man. LOL
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I don't understand what you mean. We're not here to promote "no grind" mmos. Many of us in this thread are already backing the kickstarter and supporting the game. My instincts tell me that this game has the potential to be very good, so I support it.