Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.

Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

Steven said game will have no grind!

2»

Comments

  • I personally don't mind grinding I played Everquest for 16 years... I still play it. I love grinding but I'd also like to see a new form of grinding or something to replace it.

    Now I didn't say follow the migration of mobs, you could if you can predict where they are going but I meant bring new
    Mobs to the area, change their hang out locations and maybe have nothing spawn in that area at all based on time of day and what not. My main concern is people staying in 1 spot and not being social or moving and enjoying the lore and everything the game has to offer, everyone wants to do their own thing which is great but keep the world turning is all I'm saying
  • [quote quote=23972]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/steven-said-game-will-have-no-grind/page/2/#post-23961" rel="nofollow">Malic-Valdon wrote:</a></div>
    LOL so a developer of an MMO at kickstarter says there will be no grind and youre all in?

    Come on folks, some of you have claimed to have played MMO’s for decades. There is always some form of grind, you keep players on grinding until you can produce new content. Dont be bad consumers, trust your instincts and your histories.

    No grind in an MMO, come on man. LOL

    </blockquote>
    I don’t understand what you mean. We’re not here to promote “no grind” mmos. Many of us in this thread are already backing the kickstarter and supporting the game. My instincts tell me that this game has the potential to be very good, so I support it.

    [/quote]

    I dont think I could possibly be any clearer so if you dont know what I mean I dont know what else to say.

    Thank you for the reply though, see you around the forums.
  • [quote quote=23972]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/steven-said-game-will-have-no-grind/page/2/#post-23961" rel="nofollow">Malic-Valdon wrote:</a></div>
    LOL so a developer of an MMO at kickstarter says there will be no grind and youre all in?

    Come on folks, some of you have claimed to have played MMO’s for decades. There is always some form of grind, you keep players on grinding until you can produce new content. Dont be bad consumers, trust your instincts and your histories.

    No grind in an MMO, come on man. LOL

    </blockquote>
    I don’t understand what you mean. We’re not here to promote “no grind” mmos. Many of us in this thread are already backing the kickstarter and supporting the game. My instincts tell me that this game has the potential to be very good, so I support it.

    [/quote]I don’t think I can be any clearer and if you didn’t know what I meant then any elaboration going forward would be folly.

    Thanks for the reply though, see you around the forums.
  • [quote quote=23972]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/steven-said-game-will-have-no-grind/page/2/#post-23961" rel="nofollow">Malic-Valdon wrote:</a></div>
    LOL so a developer of an MMO at kickstarter says there will be no grind and youre all in?

    Come on folks, some of you have claimed to have played MMO’s for decades. There is always some form of grind, you keep players on grinding until you can produce new content. Dont be bad consumers, trust your instincts and your histories.

    No grind in an MMO, come on man. LOL

    </blockquote>
    I don’t understand what you mean. We’re not here to promote “no grind” mmos. Many of us in this thread are already backing the kickstarter and supporting the game. My instincts tell me that this game has the potential to be very good, so I support it.

    [/quote]

    I don’t think I can be any clearer and if you didn’t know what I meant then any elaboration going forward would be folly.

    Thanks for the reply though, see you around the forums.

    How many posts have you had eaten today? LOL
  • Would love to quote you siidari but the forums wont allow me too.

    I don’t think I can be any clearer and if you didn’t know what I meant then any elaboration going forward would be folly.

    Thanks for the reply though, see you around the forums.
  • [quote quote=23961]LOL so a developer of an MMO at kickstarter says there will be no grind and youre all in?

    Come on folks, some of you have claimed to have played MMO’s for decades. There is always some form of grind, you keep players on grinding until you can produce new content. Dont be bad consumers, trust your instincts and your histories.

    No grind in an MMO, come on man. LOL

    [/quote]

    Grinding is usually the hallmark of a themepark mmo that can't keep up on releasing new content fast enough for its players, so they put in systems to slow down player progress with repetitive gameplay. What the devs for AoC are trying to do is to put in a non-linear progression that branches into many different things to do that you be overwhelmed with choices. You can of course repeat doing the same thing if you chose to but you can also do many other things which all contributes to the game in some way.
  • I have always savored the journey just as much or more than the destination. To me, grinding is when you are trying to force results faster by doing the optimal thing repetitively to get to what you want as soon as you can.
  • [quote quote=23976]I personally don’t mind grinding I played Everquest for 16 years… I still play it. I love grinding but I’d also like to see a new form of grinding or something to replace it.

    Now I didn’t say follow the migration of mobs, you could if you can predict where they are going but I meant bring new
    Mobs to the area, change their hang out locations and maybe have nothing spawn in that area at all based on time of day and what not. My main concern is people staying in 1 spot and not being social or moving and enjoying the lore and everything the game has to offer, everyone wants to do their own thing which is great but keep the world turning is all I’m saying

    [/quote]
    THIS.
    this has summarised all my feelings.
    grinding is fine and all, but make it so that it requires some actual skill to play, not just repeating the same dumb AOE over and over.
    and definitely not on the same spot
  • I find the term "Grind" to be very subjective since all it really means is how many repeat things do I have to do to reach my goal. I think Stevens plan with the introduction of more horizontal progressions like the $2mill Social Progression Milestone is going to help with the issue of Grind.

    The more different type of stuff you can use to progress, the less of a Grind it will feel in the end.
  • I doubt anyone enjoys the 'grind' just some can tolerate it more than others.
    which from my core perspective is killing particular mobs in an optimal location spawn zone or repetition of specific content for exp.

    Occasionally these areas are also contested for viable farming and reputation

    I can't say from personally experience in the past that any of these scenarios were 'fun'
    and typically were detrimental to the whole world/community/economy health.

    I am not opposed to the 'grind' but I feel that a diminishing returns principal should be in place to keep the player moving and engaged with the greater environment and put a handbrake on any possible exploitative aspects of typical grinding...
  • It always cracks me up when people who have not endured a korean MMO complain about grind; games where it takes 1 million exp to hit level 63 but it takes 10 million exp to hit level 64 are grindy. When I was a teenage it was not uncommon to grind for 12 hours straight and get 1/8 of a level of experience. Those games literally take YEARS to reach max level.

    My point is not to brag, just to point out that grind is a very vague term.
  • [quote quote=24308]It always cracks me up when people who have not endured a korean MMO complain about grind; games where it takes 1 million exp to hit level 63 but it takes 10 million exp to hit level 64 are grindy. When I was a teenage it was not uncommon to grind for 12 hours straight and get 1/8 of a level of experience. Those games literally take YEARS to reach max level.

    My point is not to brag, just to point out that grind is a very vague term.

    [/quote]

    Not really vague.
    The common feature is doing monotonous work to reach max level as fast as possible.
    Literally grinding out progress.
  • I see grinding as needing 10,000,000 artifact power to advance your weapon further or needing 300 of some item to move further in the story line. So maybe what he means is there will be no forced grinds like to ones I mentioned. However, if some dungeon boss has a low chance to drop an item you want and you chose to kill that boss repeatedly in order to get it, then that is not a forced grind. So they can make multiple paths of progression by making everything you do worth XP and have no forced grinding like WoW and its artifact power.
  • Even if there is a "grind" I am down. I love to kick back with some whiskey and just kill 1000000 mobs

    I think what Steven means with the no "grind" is that the game may not be like Black Desert Online/Lineage 2 where you need to kill 100000s of mobs to level and that is really the only way to level. I am sure in the game you can kill mobs to progress, but they want to add other ways to progress and a lot of things to progress in. I highly doubt the game will be without some form of a grind
  • It will not be a grind when you can go do what ever you want and take on what ever you want that you are powerful enough to do. You do not need to sit and kill Millions of mobs to level just to do something in the game. This game will be an old school game where you can go and do things in the game without worrying about level expect when you take on harder mobs.
  • I believe he's leaving the option open in our hands, grind sure go kill those 10k mobs, craft sure go do that, adventure yes why not.
    Do caravans sure xp up there.
    I think we are all thinking there will be no grind but there will always be.
    You just get to choose how you want to level.
    We are not forced to grind like lineage or the Korean games or Everquest.
    It's going to be the best of both worlds.
  • Play Lineage II then complain about grind. I, for one, welcome the grind. It separates the strong from the weak. (Or the lifeless from the ones who have real life obligations).
  • Yes my 'grinding' in the past hasn't been anything compared to grinding out 210 Bajillion xp for 1/20000 of a level in a korean mmo. Well more fool to them for playing that kind of truly monotonous filth.

    It's all relative. Generally for the most of us in Western mmo's the grind isn't that bad but it doesn't mean people love it.

    Though, looking at this thread it seems like most don't really mind if there's something to get out of it / it's optional. It's mainly forcing players to grind to level up for a long amount of time that people take issue with and I think that's what Steven was referring to overall.

    Choices.
  • If there are varieties of content to advance, as Steven says, then there will not be required grinding. There can still be increasing amounts needed to get to where you want to, hopefully. I am one that enjoys the journey as much as the destination. I don't mind if the climb is steep and hate getting where I am going too fast in MMO games. It's nice to have LOTS of memories to savor when you reach the peak.

    So I suppose that I agree with most here. Intentional grinding because it gives more exp/hour or I want 1,000 oak logs NOW is my choice and not "Grind By Design".
  • I want to farm items for personal pleasure. Stuff that not a lot of people have because they don't grind/farm for hours for some rare items.
  • [quote quote=24433]Not really vague.
    The common feature is doing monotonous work to reach max level as fast as possible.
    Literally grinding out progress.

    [/quote]

    So like I said, it's really vague.

    There people who think WoW in it's current state where you can max level in under a week is grindy.
  • Of course, there will be grinding, don't kid yourselves guys.

    That said, there are different ways to make grinding more rewarding/less of a chore.

    I was quite impressed by the Dark Fall: Unholy Wars level/prestige System where you had to grind prestige from all sorts of activities in the game (combat & noncombat) to gain prestige at certain thresholds, which you could in turn use to unlock active or passive abilities, from an improved dodge roll to higher health regen. Maybe they could find a compromise between a levelling system and a prestige system?

    Another option would be something like what bdo attempted (unsuccessfully) to do, where you gain beast mastery for every monster of a kind you've defeated. Since the story is all about learning of an ancient civilization you could be rewarded for gathering information about monsters by killing them or locations by completing quests in them and in turn being rewarded by the growing city's zone you are doing these things in.

    There are ways to make it fun/rewarding, but at the end of the day MMOs and grinding goes hand in hand in one way or another, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in the first place.
  • [quote quote=24923]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/steven-said-game-will-have-no-grind/page/3/#post-24433" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
    Not really vague.
    The common feature is doing monotonous work to reach max level as fast as possible.
    Literally grinding out progress.

    </blockquote>
    So like I said, it’s really vague.

    There people who think WoW in it’s current state where you can max level in under a week is grindy.

    [/quote]
    as it was said, you can never really please everyone. Even if you could grind to max level in a day, ppl will still say it's grindy.
    I personally feel grinding should be optional, and the mid-game should essentially be as much fun as end game,as in I can make contributions even when I'm in mid-game levels, although it won't be as high as if I was end game.
    Also, one thing I never really understood. Why does everyone want to rush to the end-game so fast? it's not like you become a god end-game or super-skilled or anything like that. in fact you only learn to crowd control well.
  • But surely the best way to avoid the grind is to have plenty of quests that actually give XP, these can be grindy, but hopefully with some decent lore/story they won't seem so.
  • [quote quote=24923]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/steven-said-game-will-have-no-grind/page/3/#post-24433" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
    Not really vague.
    The common feature is doing monotonous work to reach max level as fast as possible.
    Literally grinding out progress.

    </blockquote>
    So like I said, it’s really vague.

    There people who think WoW in it’s current state where you can max level in under a week is grindy.

    [/quote]

    lol
    Touche
  • Well if they mean you won't have to repeat the same content over and over again I'm happy with that.
    BUT if they mean no gear grind at all then I'm kinda sad. GW2 did that -> all gear is basically equal and I felt bored and had nothing to do very fast. I want to feel like I'm progressing my character the whole game, not only while leveling. I want to feel enouraged to run end game content for my own personal-only gain, not only for my node/community gain :P.
    I hope they can make me feel like that.
  • To me, grind was essentially the Everquest model of levelling. Go into a zone, find a spot, pull things to there and kill for hours on end. It was generally fun, but mostly tedious. Bad thing was there was really no other way to level your character. Nowadays there are different things to "grind" out but they are part of several advancement aspects in the game rather than just the one.
  • [quote quote=25101]To me, grind was essentially the Everquest model of levelling. Go into a zone, find a spot, pull things to there and kill for hours on end. It was generally fun, but mostly tedious. Bad thing was there was really no other way to level your character. Nowadays there are different things to “grind” out but they are part of several advancement aspects in the game rather than just the one.

    [/quote]

    Yep FFXI had the same setup. I agree that this type of grind was fun because it really was and you got to know the people well you were playing with. Also during the days before WOW we didnt rush to end game just to raid. People forget that in games like FFXI and SWG and even UO while a grind existed most players didnt grind because it was very boring. Just take the Holocron Grind in SWG where you could grind 30+ classes just to get a Jedi. Most people gave up after a short period of time. In UO and SWG yea people maybe did do a bit of a grind to max a certain skill, BUT they didnt grind to rush to end game. They played the game and as they played the game their character became more powerful and then they took on more powerful mobs.

    I think the problem comes from the race to raiding where grinding comes from.
  • Many people have a different opinion on what grind means. Some people say it's doing the same quest over and over again to get to a higher level while I would say it is to kill random mobs without a quest to level up and some people say grinding is when you have to kill a type of monster more than once.

    <strong>My thought:</strong>
    I think they will try to do they same quest style like Guild Wars 2. All quest are different and you aren't able to do the same quest in the same way again so every quest will be unique and since the quest isn't repeatable it isn't grinding.
Sign In or Register to comment.