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Will there be Quest Helper Arrows in the game?

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Comments

  • Steele said:
    The game has to appeal to the masses not a niche. The majority of players will be used to important NPCs being marked in some way and have guidance markers for quests. So to attract as large a player base as possible and therefore more money I'd bet markers will be present and enabled by default with the option to toggle them off.
    Incorrect.  The game doesn't have to "appeal to the masses".  Steven and his team have said repeatedly that their goal is to create a game that is different than what the rest of the genre is doing.  His sole motivation for starting this is because he didn't like the direction the genre is going.  Most of the games coming out these days are giant cash grabs full of pay to win.  And so many of them have been dumbed down to appeal to the least common denominator.

    The reason people are excited by this game is exactly because it does not aim at the LCD crowd.  They're going for quality over quantity and they believe, as do I, if they hold true to their vision the player base will grow and develop and the game will flourish and thrive.  If you watch the Twitch live streams, Steven has said repeatedly that this is a passion project for him.  It is not about the money.  It is about creating the MMORPG that will hopefully grab the attention of the genre and change the direction it has been going to a more positive and healthy status.

    I'd bet quest markers will not be present.  They've already said they're NOT going to have a big ! over a quest giver's head.  If they won't do that, I'd say it's certain they won't give you an option to have an arrow telling you which way to go.

     
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    [quote quote=25089]
    If there will be quest markers… well than let be it but in the most mmorpg’s I played in the past with quest markers most people are just running around, accepting every quest without even reading the text devlievered by the game which makes me sad.

    [/quote]

    When you have played in group after group who have already done the quests, most wont wait now days.
    If you stop to read, you simply get left behind.
    That makes me sad.

    Its why I play mostly solo. I value the story.
    This is truly not the game for those people.  They will come in and try that, become disgusted with the fact that they can't grab everything and rush through it and they will eventually leave.  Can't happen fast enough for me.  As they say, "Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out."

    This game is being designed for people who crave story and immersion, as well as meaningful PvP that leads to changes in the world.  It is not being designed for people who want what all the other games already have.  Doing that would negate the primary reason Steven decided to create the game.  If people want those sort of game "features" that already exist in other games, they know where to find them.
     
  • I agree with @Possum. Quite frankly we discuss appealing to the masses as if there are masses to be appealed to. The genre is cluttered with cluster f***s of MMOs all over the place which are basically copies of eachother with different skins. The only "masses" left to appeal to are the ones who're sicked to death of the BDO, ESO, -insertMMOhere- grind and want something totally different. Ashes represents about as different as we're going to get in the next few years.  
  • Nephalem said:
    I don't believe quest arrows is the way there going with this game. They want you to explore the word and talk to everyone. 
    Hope your right.  With the talk of immersion and an interactive world I can't see it.
    Consider also that every server will be on a different path.
  • It would be cool in a sense if they were not marked out and you could find "hidden quests" by exploring and talking to NPCs. Best if they quests were not there all the time, had player reqs or even Node triggers.

    That's the plan as far as we know.
  • Not all have the patience for questing in the first place. Not all have the knowledge of the area that is needed. Need intuitive steps.

    Again, this is not the game for those people.  Those games already exist.  Why do people think every new MMORPG should have all the things they want?  That's how games turn into a steaming pile of worthless mediocre shite. 

    People looking at this game need to just get it out of their heads that it has to appeal to everyone.  They're not out to make a game that "appeals to the masses".  They're out to create the game they want to make and it will attract plenty of people who want to play that kind of game.  They're operating on the "Field of Dreams" premise that "If you build it, they will come.".
  • It would be cool in a sense if they were not marked out and you could find "hidden quests" by exploring and talking to NPCs. Best if they quests were not there all the time, had player reqs or even Node triggers.

    From what I've watched and read, I believe this is exactly what they're doing.
  • Cdubb said:
    A lot of MMOs these days show you exactly where to go when you get a new quest. I find this takes a lot of the immersion out of the game. I want to explore and find out for myself where and how to complete a quest. I know you can generally turn off "Quest Helpers" in game, but what is the point when everyone else is using them? Do I really want to be the guy that holds up the group because I want to read the quest and figure out what it wants me to do?

    What is everyone else's opinion? Do you like "Quest Helpers"? Should they be in the game even if you don't personally like them?

    Sorry if this has been discussed before. I couldn't find a topic talking about it.
    The Devs have stated that there will be no hand holding in the game. Youtube link: https://youtu.be/qnk1sfUXaEw?t=3161

    This specific link refers to exclamation points and question marks over quest givers, but I think it is safe to assume this negative statement includes arrows.
  • I have a feeling that quests will be fairly dynamic too. Not random, but dynamic. Maybe I can explain better with an example:

    Say you arrive at your village with some time to burn, and there's someone dressed as a trader standing near the town square. You interact with the trader and she tells you that she's worried about a late shipment of goods bound from Catfoobar. She offers a reward for finding the shipment and reporting back to her.

    You accept and you go down the road to Catfoobar looking for the wagon. Here is where the questline could take its first branch:

    1. It's a long trek, and you have to be mindful of cutthroats and the like on the way (PC and NPC), but you find the wagon and it's perfectly fine. It's just late. You go back and report and done. Quite boring, but okay maybe this option will be more weighted toward the lower levels.

    2. You find the wagon and it's destroyed. Goods scattered everywhere. You can pick them up and keep them, or you could dutifully return them to the quest giver and claim your reward (and your positive karma!).

    3. The wagon NPCs are under attack by other NPCs, who you can either join or fight off. Other players may be there too, fighting on either side of the battle. Some of the players could be on quests of their own from a neighboring town. They might've been told that the wagon was stolen and they have to rescue the stolen goods. [If players have joined the attack on either side, this area might be automatically flagged as a PvP combat zone]

    4. There is no trace of the wagon on the road, but if you are observant enough you'll have noticed signs of a battle and wagon wheels leading into the forest. Again you have a choice to hunt down the wagon, encounter whatever or whoever has taken it; or just run back to town and say it's lost.

    5. Etc...

    These kinds of dynamic variations could be created by combining simple plot elements together in unique ways, based on the player's choices (and some RNG) to create experiences that feel unique, even though the underlying goal of the quest may not vary. 

    I'm not a PvPer but the ever present threat of player combat will make this type of dynamic content even more unpredictable and exciting. Here's hoping!
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Bannith said:
    However I know for a fact they'll get a lot of complaints from the lazy crowd so maybe their should be a simple set mixed in for those kinds of players. Some days I'm to lazy to read let alone remember my own name lol.
    I wonder, really, if it is necessary to deviate from your intention in, say, building a game, just to please the so-called masses. I mean, let's look for an instant at reality.

    Currently, there are 321.4 million people, in the United States. Give or take a few hundred. Anyway, let's take politics for a second. So, we have Group A, and Group B. Group A and Group B both have "noisy" folk; those who're certain that the world relies on their statement of their opinion, on their goodwill, on their money being thrown at them. We won't even talk about what percentage of Group A and Group B these noisy ones are; let's talk, instead, about the rest of the population.

    You know, the population who quietly get up and go to work, every day. The ones who quietly go about their business, do what good they can do, and rest each night only to look forward to the next day. Are they unaware of what's going on around them? Having talked to a lot of "Everyday Joe's," I can assure you they're not. So why don't we hear from them?

    We don't hear from many of them for many reasons. Perhaps they feel their opinions are private. Perhaps they feel that speaking up will only get them noticed, and they don't wish to be noticed. So many possible reasons for this! Yet, what we don't ever sit back and realize is that these quiet ones are actually the majority of the population. 

    I think the same is true in games. You have the noisy ones, those who insist "This must be this way!" and "This must be that way!" and "You should always have such-and-such!" They'll always be there. But like mayflies, they'll also be gone soon, to the next big thing, so they can rant and rave some more, screaming about balance inequality and how this game sucks, man, cuz it doesn't even have quest markers!

    I think the lazy ones will be a minority, to be honest, but I also think they'll be the noisy ones. This is really difficult, from a publisher's perspective, to manage; how do you please every person who wants something?

    Simple answer is, of course, that you can't. You have to pick a direction, then keep to it. In establishing my business (which is still new and very small, but that's ok!), I made some deals with myself. The first was that I would start out as I mean to go on. That means I won't compromise my beliefs in what my business can be in order to please the masses. There will be folk who think I charge too much, or I should offer such-and-such service, so on and so forth. To them, I'll reply "that's offered over there, at that other business," and I'll go on with my chosen path. The other thing I decided was to let things grow slowly, but organically. I will rely greatly on word-of-mouth.

    I can tell you right now that our gaming group, which has ... oh, last count, I think 42 people in it, is largely hesitant. They're sitting back, waiting to see what we few (six, maybe?) say about the game, when it launches. Then, based on what we tell them (either that our hopes were well-founded, or were poorly-founded) they will decide whether or not to play.

    I get a sense that @Intrepid has much the same sense of things. I don't offer that to say they won't change anything they've said; rather, I offer it to say, if they don't? They'll still have my unwavering support.
  • Cdubb said:
    A lot of MMOs these days show you exactly where to go when you get a new quest. I find this takes a lot of the immersion out of the game. I want to explore and find out for myself where and how to complete a quest. I know you can generally turn off "Quest Helpers" in game, but what is the point when everyone else is using them? Do I really want to be the guy that holds up the group because I want to read the quest and figure out what it wants me to do?

    What is everyone else's opinion? Do you like "Quest Helpers"? Should they be in the game even if you don't personally like them?

    Sorry if this has been discussed before. I couldn't find a topic talking about it.
    In one of the streams, Steven said that quest givers will be denoted, but not in a way that breaks immersion. And they've said no quest helpers. Glad we'll be reading text.
  • In one of the streams, Steven said that quest givers will be denoted, but not in a way that breaks immersion. And they've said no quest helpers. Glad we'll be reading text.
    Agreed. There are going to be two main types of "quest"
    • Regular quests have meaningful and necessary text or spoken dialog.

    • Tasks are intuitive objective based quests that don't require a bunch of text that nobody will read anyway.
  • We'll have narratives, events, and tasks, so we'll technically have 3 types, but yes, I agree that tasks and narratives will require reading while events will obviously not. Yay!

    P.S. I hope we have some key voice acting to help us out, too, but that's just a quality of life ask.
  • I'm really on the fence with this I get what the op says about the breaking of immersion, but for games to be able to lead players in a satisfactory manner through environmental clues etc. Is a monumental task even for single player games. 

    It will probably be much easier to just use quest arrows. 

    Perhaps make it optional so players can choose whether they want to activate it or not. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    A lack of a quest log and progress tracker would also be very immersive, and something I hope they would consider doing if they can pull off making quests that matter.

    Realistically though, the reason why so many MMOs make the same design choices is because they couldn't make whatever else they had in mind fun, rewarding, or work better. If the majority of quests turn out to be just as meaningless as they are in most games, hunting around becomes a waste of time; sometimes to the point that people would rather grind mass monsters (which the quests were having them do most of the time anyway) than complete them. This is why quest helpers were born in the first place.
  • I'm sure there will be but to an extent we don't know fully. Yes, the arrows can take the immersion out of a game for some people but to others are really helpful tool for getting around. A dude who only has an hour to play doesn't want to be stuck on a quest cause he can't find it. Someone like me though wouldn't bother me but that's because i go to school full time and part time work so i have the time for it.
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