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Cash Grab... Pledges... P2W.. ?
I thought for some reason this game was not doing all this pledge junk.. and then.. there it was. Explain to me how this does not give a player an upper hand in the game?
In fact to be honest back in the day.. before Everquest.. and Word of War (these wanna be first MMOs which were not) They never charged you for beta.. Everyone was allowed in an open beta.. In fact they were quite lucky to have your time... testing the game for them... Now they are charging people to work for them.. It is unbelievable. Now I understand.... They need a way to pay for the costs of a massive project like this. . Fine.. But do you really have to put the comments about what you will do when you reach 1 million dollars.. Like ohhh we can't complete the game unless we reach this mark... Wait did I say mark? I meant to say marketing.. duh... Because its the same marketing that all these cash grab pay to win stay in beta forever and leach money off the public without ever having to be liable for the game .. because its simply not release yet..
So.. go ahead.. explain to me how this is not pay to win at least and especially not a cash grab.. give me something to look up to.. I am open minded.
Greenwich
In fact to be honest back in the day.. before Everquest.. and Word of War (these wanna be first MMOs which were not) They never charged you for beta.. Everyone was allowed in an open beta.. In fact they were quite lucky to have your time... testing the game for them... Now they are charging people to work for them.. It is unbelievable. Now I understand.... They need a way to pay for the costs of a massive project like this. . Fine.. But do you really have to put the comments about what you will do when you reach 1 million dollars.. Like ohhh we can't complete the game unless we reach this mark... Wait did I say mark? I meant to say marketing.. duh... Because its the same marketing that all these cash grab pay to win stay in beta forever and leach money off the public without ever having to be liable for the game .. because its simply not release yet..
So.. go ahead.. explain to me how this is not pay to win at least and especially not a cash grab.. give me something to look up to.. I am open minded.
Greenwich
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Ya its a cash grab, why not? People with disposable income have a right to spend their money on what ever they want. IF they want to gamble on promises and hope thats on them. I cant fault gaming companies for taking advantage of it, its 100% on the consumers no one is forcing anyone to pay.
Pay to win? I dont know, maybe we'll see. LOL
I don't mind paying early to play early and get some cosmetic perks.
In this case, I'm paying to help the development of design elements I believe are crucial -node v node conflict + destructibiliity.
The PvP combat might be to hardcore for me to play AoC for more than a few weeks, but the other features of the game need development if we're going to move beyond the stagnant, 20 year old MMORPG designs.
Long winded rant. Realized it's not even worth it.
Before making a thread like this for concepts you do not understand, do a little research on the product itself.
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Told you OP. Basically "do research, come to the same conclusion I did or dont post."
lol.
If yes, then some of your questions are answered in there. Yeah there is a great deal of mistrust built up about Kickstarters and MMOs in particular. In the end you have to go through the info that they provide, evaluate what they say, make your own decision and pledge or not pledge.
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios?token=116f691d]Link to KS page and Video.[/url]
[u]Does it look like a cash grab to you?[/u] How much money do you think it takes to create even a very simple MMO? A few million dollars is not even close to enough. I don't see anything in the Kickstarter that leads me to believe that this is a cash grab. I don't see anything in the community back-and-forth with these guys that resembles a cash grab. You are the only one that can make up your mind about that.
[u]Pay to Win[/u] What rewards within this Kickstarter look like P2W to you? Take a look and compare the stuff that you can get in this Kickstarter and what other Kickstarters offer. Do you feel like Alpha and Beta access is pay to win? I do not. For some time there will be an NDS on the Alphas and maybe the Beta, but fairly early in the process you will see all kinds of Youtube vids and internet reviews about how to play and describing things from inside, etc... There won't be much that isn't detailed about playing by the time it is launched. That is why I don't feel like Alpha or Beta is P2W.
This game is gonna be P2W. You should quit now while you still got time.
Don't worry about me man. I'm gonna be balling and spending all my money on those P2W cash shop cosmetics.
To many any pledge system of such amounts of money is a cash grab.. since the game has not been release yet.
To me.. p2w is when only people who pay money gain the early access advantage, because they excel much quicker on release.
It is as simple as that for me.
But we all have our own definitions.
High pledge backers will get 1 day advance access before everyone else on final release.
Anything with early access isn't really special. People will post their experience and how everything works. You will get a good idea about the alpha and beta before you play the final launch.
In fact to be honest back in the day.. before Everquest.. and Word of War (these wanna be first MMOs which were not) They never charged you for beta.. Everyone was allowed in an open beta.. In fact they were quite lucky to have your time… testing the game for them… Now they are charging people to work for them.. It is unbelievable. Now I understand…. They need a way to pay for the costs of a massive project like this. . Fine.. But do you really have to put the comments about what you will do when you reach 1 million dollars.. Like ohhh we can’t complete the game unless we reach this mark… Wait did I say mark? I meant to say marketing.. duh… Because its the same marketing that all these cash grab pay to win stay in beta forever and leach money off the public without ever having to be liable for the game .. because its simply not release yet..
So.. go ahead.. explain to me how this is not pay to win at least and especially not a cash grab.. give me something to look up to.. I am open minded.
Greenwich
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Not sure how you think kickstarter stretch goals is a Pay 2 Win thing , only way that could be the case is the kickstarter awards offered items that give backers a unfair advantage in game which is not the case with the AOC kickstarter. They also might still give out beta keys to non-backers , alpha and beta access is just a award for those who want to see this game be made and the more money they get with cool stretch goals to motivate more people to back the game , the better game we can hopefully get.
Watch and decide for yourself.
To many any pledge system of such amounts of money is a cash grab.. since the game has not been release yet.
To me p2w is when only people whop pay money get early access advantage.
It is as simple as that for me.
But we all have our own definitions.
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I guess it's a matter of perspective. You see the kickstarter Alpha and Beta as an "early access advantage", whereas I see it as supporting the game to make the game better by helping fund it, and in return I get involved in the development process by helping test the game in the Alpha and Beta stages to make sure it is going to be as good as I hope it will be.
How much advantage do you honestly expect to gain from playing in an Alpha or Beta test? Knowledge of game mechanics that are usually not working as intended and subject to change? Knowing which classes are better in PvE or PvP that are going to be rebalanced before release?
To many any pledge system of such amounts of money is a cash grab.. since the game has not been release yet.
To me.. p2w is when only people who pay money gain the early access advantage, because they excel much quicker on release.
It is as simple as that for me.
But we all have our own definitions.
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This is an MMO forum right after a successful Kickstarter. Any dissent will be summarily crushed. You are better off posing these questions in a month or two to garner a more measured response. Normally the “hype” phase is when people place their bets (paying real money) in the hopes that everything they have been told will happen. This is the worse time on a forum to be a skeptic, you’re essentially posing questions that would harken to the validity of their hope.
You’re questions aren’t without merit, just bad timing. Hang in there
Also keep in mind that no industry "names" are likely going to attach their resumes to anything that is outright deception or that they don't have confidence that they can bring to fruition. That kind of stuff is baggage that you don't want to follow you in a relatively small circle of MMO Industry job markets...
Edit: Also sorry that you have to go through rabid fans to find their take. I had a fairly long and nice reply. The forum is screwy and eating posts at whim so it is lost. :(
In addition, this game needs alpha and beta testers regardless if they were KS backers or random people.
If you're gonna complain about early access advantage, every game has that regardless on how they choose their testers. What do you call people who get randomly picked for early access without spending a dime? Regardless of who gets early access, someone needs to do it, and those people are gonna have a slight edge. Grumbling about something is going to happen regardless if someone pays or not is a moot point.
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Getting your knickers in a twist over a 2 day head start is really something else. I can't take this thread seriously if that was the case.
I don't know. It just takes some of the fun away. Knowing that if I do not donate and start early, I am in a world with many, maybe even half the population being veterans in a game. This loses some of that fresh appeal to me.
I don’t know. It just takes some of the fun away. Knowing that if I do not donate and start early, I am in a world with many, maybe even half the population being veterans in a game. This loses some of that fresh appeal to me.
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Each person to her/his specific tastes. Have you ever joined an MMO some time AFTER it's original launch? Didn't you have fun regardless that you weren't there on day 1?
The days of being lucky to get into a closed beta on a totally corporate self funded game was also around the time CD Burners were like the greatest thing ever.
Tell us more about the days you used to have to wait 15 minutes to download a song......
Back in the UO and EQ days there wasn't much competition and there was little competition ion the horizon when they were in their beta phases.
Just a hypothesis of a sort. :)
Greenwich
[/quote]As the creator of this thread I think it's incumbent upon you to explain how it is pay2win. What pledge package gives a player an actual advantage in-game? I haven't seen you list a single example.
Are you talking about having to buy into alpha or beta access? Do you really think that gives players an advantage? First, you can win into both of those with weekly drawings. Second, it's not under nda so you can just watch a million videos and learn anything and everything about the game from people in the alphas and beta.