[quote quote=24020]As long as it actually does release. Because.. so many games appear to be in forever development. And when I see this pledge system.. I immediately think… forever development. Because it appears in many other games that they initially planned only to make money on anticipation. It is just really disturbing to me. I hope they follow through because.. minus the pledge system.. The game looks fantastic and the team seems great.
[/quote]
The AoC team has almost two years of progress on the game already and their goals for the game is more realistic compared to (the biggest example) what Star Citizen is trying to do that is keeping them in a long development. No triple A company is making this kind of game , I am willing to gamble that Intrepid can pull it off , I might lose money or I might get the game I want to play.
I knew I was going to receive backlash on this post. But this was a good way to get your attention. I know, it was a bit too harsh. I know there will be videos of course and the knowledge will be out there. What about this mount? How easy will it be to obtain an mount at launch.. what are the benefits of the mount?
[quote quote=24040]I knew I was going to receive backlash on this post. But this was a good way to get your attention. I know, it was a bit too harsh. I know there will be videos of course and the knowledge will be out there. What about this mount? How easy will it be to obtain an mount at launch.. what are the benefits of the mount?
[/quote] Looking through the kickstarter page, I see nothing that will give you a worthwhile edge to be considered p2w. sure you could state that alpha and beta are p2w, but they give you only experience.and that too, you can't rely on it. and the day headstart, there are seperate headstart servers, so essentially even if they did have a headstart, they won't be competing with us. also, don't forget MMOs are not an overnight genre. you have to invest significant time to compete. that fades out the one day advantage. one day in a month? not too hard. one day in a year? nothing. By my knowledge pets and mounts are mostly cosmetic only, and will have next to no in game benefit of having them. but still... they kept the pheonix pet beyond my reach.... it burns!! I don't know how to obtain a non-KS mount except for one... the dragon You essentially get the dragon egg from killing a world boss, if you are a mayor or king/queen. hatch it, and you get your very own dragon mount. oh and also, it's the only flying mount, and the only temporary one. I'd presume getting a common mount would be somewhat similar, or maybe something like you have to use a trap or something. Those mechanics are still under construction if I'm right. alternatively, you could head over to discord or come online on twitch on monday, wednesday or friday 3PM PDT and talk directly about your concerns. you will face a lot of fanboy-ism here, I am probably not an exception either. but one thing i know is definitely true- the devs are in touch with us a LOT.
There isnt a single kickstarter perk that gives players an in game advantage. And if ur butthurt over a few people being able to reach level 6 before you do, then ur not upset about P2W, ur just upset about not being one of those people.
Even during the 2 day head start nodes are disabled. So those people arent going to be able to do anything super relevant in game other than a few quests and resource gathering. Neither of which is an actual advantage. The market will flood with resources and everyone will hit level cap, and none of the headstart will matter. Early logins also serve a multitude of purposes for the game including lessening the burden on the login server on the day of launch and stress test data.
The only thing on the Kickstarter that can even be remotely argued as P2W, is the 2 day headstart.
However, we know that Nodes will not accrue EXP during the headstart, and level 0 Nodes are hidden within the world. So all you are really gaining is a few levels extra, and maybe a tiny gear advantage. In the long run that will not amount to much.
But if anyone has has any actual good arguments for any P2W aspects in AoC, I suggest taking it up with the Devs, since their stance on P2W has been firm since the very beginning.
[quote quote=23943]I thought for some reason this game was not doing all this pledge junk.. and then.. there it was. Explain to me how this does not give a player an upper hand in the game? [/quote]
There are NO pay to win mechanics. You should learn what that means. P2W means you can buy items that will make you stronger than other players. Epic level weapons and armor, etc. Cash shop and cosmetics are NOT pay to win. At most the 2-day head start could be seen as a boost, but almost all MMOs launch with a headstart and it helps the server load. And it is 2 days. Of an MMO... you'll be there for YEARS and if not you'll quit and it doesn't matter. Since it won't affect nodes until official launch, it is barely a boost for a small percent of people and you can catch up to them. So it isn't a longterm boost anyway. Oh and it is 2 days.
So what exactly is pay-to-win?
[quote quote=23943]In fact to be honest back in the day.. before Everquest.. and Word of War (these wanna be first MMOs which were not) They never charged you for beta.. Everyone was allowed in an open beta.. In fact they were quite lucky to have your time… testing the game for them… Now they are charging people to work for them.. It is unbelievable. Now I understand…. They need a way to pay for the costs of a massive project like this. . Fine.. But do you really have to put the comments about what you will do when you reach 1 million dollars.. Like ohhh we can’t complete the game unless we reach this mark… Wait did I say mark? I meant to say marketing.. duh… Because its the same marketing that all these cash grab pay to win stay in beta forever and leach money off the public without ever having to be liable for the game .. because its simply not release yet.. [/quote]
I don't think you even know how the Kickstarter works. They fully funded the game. The Kickstarter is to provide extra money to do the extra stuff in the stretch goals. EVERYONE benefits, especially those who don't back the game. Us backers give OUR money to help them create. You get access to the content for free as part of the game at launch. The only thing you don't get are COSMETIC items and pre-paid subscriptions.
You are barking up a tree that doesn't even exist. This isn't a problem as it doesn't apply.
[quote quote=23943]So.. go ahead.. explain to me how this is not pay to win at least and especially not a cash grab.. give me something to look up to.. I am open minded. [/quote]
It isn't pay-to-win because you don't get anything but cosmetic items.
It isn't a "cash grab" because they are using it to create more content. Plus, they are a business. They SHOULD be entitled to earn money otherwise why bother? They've fully funded the game themselves. This is a SMALL pittance of money to recoup costs, have the budget for new hires, and budget for expanded (i.e. stretch goals) content to make the game bigger at launch.
Why don't you explain how it IS p2w and a cash grab?
[quote quote=24003]I mean both, early access in beta and at release. I don’t know. It just takes some of the fun away. Knowing that if I do not donate and start early, I am in a world with many, maybe even half the population being veterans in a game. This loses some of that fresh appeal to me.
[/quote]
There will be non headstart servers you can join. (A little bit research and you would have found this out.)
As for playing Alpha and Beta being P2W that's very subjective. Learning a mechanic to only have it change or using skills that get nerfed into the ground or changed completely is not exactly winning. Let's not forget the character wipes over and over again. Sure these players will have some more insight into the game. But, you'll be able to use that information to your advantage. Read up on the wiki, watch videos on the game, watch the class combos you'd like to play to see if you'll really like it or not.
If you really are interested in the game you should at least put $1 on the kickstarter so you'll get all the backer goal rewards. Even if you never play the game (or it never comes out) it's only a dollar.
No matter what pre-game community forum you go to, you find someone asking these questions. Some of them think they're being profound and asking for the first time (they're usually like the 478th instead), others do it knowing the trolling effects it will bring, etc. However you slice and dice it, these threads are just <em>annoying</em> and feature questions that anyone who has made it through primary school ought to be able to work out for themselves by reading the Kickstarter and/or the website for 10 minutes.
Also, I want everyone to remember what P2W is actually like, here. Think back to those Chinese MMOs, where P2W whales dominated all PVP content, and most PVE content. Think about games where people converted real-life cash to in-game currency, and just bought their BIS gear flat-out.
I don't think that the same thing will ever happen in AoC.
To be fair, though, I think that your average person that spent money on this game will be more motivated to excel than your average player. Therefore, the people that payed money may tend do better than those that didn't - but it probably won't be because of the money itself, if you get what I'm trying to say.
Advantage of early access? Everybody has different play times available to them - How much of an advantage early access gives them isn't really going to make any difference in the big scheme of things.
Advantage of pre-trialling the game in betas? : Yup you get a few more hours to experiment, and people are daft if they don't recognise that it's an advantage, but again it's only a temporary one. If it's that much of a big deal, then start a forum thread as to why you deserve someone to give you a free key for beta. You might get lucky! Better still, pledge and support this game.
[quote quote=24434]So if you purchased 48 hours XP bonus from a cash shop..that would not be a Pay2Win mechanism ? Uhu. Of course not. Nudge nudge wink wink
[/quote]
LOL, nice try. Though that is more of a pay to convenience.
What they could sell you in the cash shop is something that enhances your XP bar that makes it look like you are leveling faster. Big burst of XP for each kill, but then it slowly creeps back to what you really earned. To subtle to notice. But if you look at the XP numbers they are always correct.
Comments
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The AoC team has almost two years of progress on the game already and their goals for the game is more realistic compared to (the biggest example) what Star Citizen is trying to do that is keeping them in a long development. No triple A company is making this kind of game , I am willing to gamble that Intrepid can pull it off , I might lose money or I might get the game I want to play.
I know there will be videos of course and the knowledge will be out there. What about this mount? How easy will it be to obtain an mount at launch.. what are the benefits of the mount?
If they complete the game as promised then they are simply using Kickstarter as another viable source for funding the development of the game.
If the game never releases or is released as a mess then, yeah, it would be a cash grab. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
I know there will be videos of course and the knowledge will be out there. What about this mount? How easy will it be to obtain an mount at launch.. what are the benefits of the mount?
[/quote]
Looking through the kickstarter page, I see nothing that will give you a worthwhile edge to be considered p2w. sure you could state that alpha and beta are p2w, but they give you only experience.and that too, you can't rely on it.
and the day headstart, there are seperate headstart servers, so essentially even if they did have a headstart, they won't be competing with us. also, don't forget MMOs are not an overnight genre. you have to invest significant time to compete. that fades out the one day advantage. one day in a month? not too hard. one day in a year? nothing.
By my knowledge pets and mounts are mostly cosmetic only, and will have next to no in game benefit of having them. but still... they kept the pheonix pet beyond my reach.... it burns!!
I don't know how to obtain a non-KS mount except for one... the dragon
You essentially get the dragon egg from killing a world boss, if you are a mayor or king/queen. hatch it, and you get your very own dragon mount. oh and also, it's the only flying mount, and the only temporary one.
I'd presume getting a common mount would be somewhat similar, or maybe something like you have to use a trap or something.
Those mechanics are still under construction if I'm right.
alternatively, you could head over to discord or come online on twitch on monday, wednesday or friday 3PM PDT and talk directly about your concerns.
you will face a lot of fanboy-ism here, I am probably not an exception either. but one thing i know is definitely true- the devs are in touch with us a LOT.
Even during the 2 day head start nodes are disabled. So those people arent going to be able to do anything super relevant in game other than a few quests and resource gathering. Neither of which is an actual advantage. The market will flood with resources and everyone will hit level cap, and none of the headstart will matter. Early logins also serve a multitude of purposes for the game including lessening the burden on the login server on the day of launch and stress test data.
It isnt all about you.
However, we know that Nodes will not accrue EXP during the headstart, and level 0 Nodes are hidden within the world. So all you are really gaining is a few levels extra, and maybe a tiny gear advantage.
In the long run that will not amount to much.
But if anyone has has any actual good arguments for any P2W aspects in AoC, I suggest taking it up with the Devs, since their stance on P2W has been firm since the very beginning.
There are NO pay to win mechanics. You should learn what that means. P2W means you can buy items that will make you stronger than other players. Epic level weapons and armor, etc. Cash shop and cosmetics are NOT pay to win. At most the 2-day head start could be seen as a boost, but almost all MMOs launch with a headstart and it helps the server load. And it is 2 days. Of an MMO... you'll be there for YEARS and if not you'll quit and it doesn't matter. Since it won't affect nodes until official launch, it is barely a boost for a small percent of people and you can catch up to them. So it isn't a longterm boost anyway. Oh and it is 2 days.
So what exactly is pay-to-win?
[quote quote=23943]In fact to be honest back in the day.. before Everquest.. and Word of War (these wanna be first MMOs which were not) They never charged you for beta.. Everyone was allowed in an open beta.. In fact they were quite lucky to have your time… testing the game for them… Now they are charging people to work for them.. It is unbelievable. Now I understand…. They need a way to pay for the costs of a massive project like this. . Fine.. But do you really have to put the comments about what you will do when you reach 1 million dollars.. Like ohhh we can’t complete the game unless we reach this mark… Wait did I say mark? I meant to say marketing.. duh… Because its the same marketing that all these cash grab pay to win stay in beta forever and leach money off the public without ever having to be liable for the game .. because its simply not release yet.. [/quote]
I don't think you even know how the Kickstarter works. They fully funded the game. The Kickstarter is to provide extra money to do the extra stuff in the stretch goals. EVERYONE benefits, especially those who don't back the game. Us backers give OUR money to help them create. You get access to the content for free as part of the game at launch. The only thing you don't get are COSMETIC items and pre-paid subscriptions.
You are barking up a tree that doesn't even exist. This isn't a problem as it doesn't apply.
[quote quote=23943]So.. go ahead.. explain to me how this is not pay to win at least and especially not a cash grab.. give me something to look up to.. I am open minded. [/quote]
It isn't pay-to-win because you don't get anything but cosmetic items.
It isn't a "cash grab" because they are using it to create more content. Plus, they are a business. They SHOULD be entitled to earn money otherwise why bother? They've fully funded the game themselves. This is a SMALL pittance of money to recoup costs, have the budget for new hires, and budget for expanded (i.e. stretch goals) content to make the game bigger at launch.
Why don't you explain how it IS p2w and a cash grab?
I don’t know. It just takes some of the fun away. Knowing that if I do not donate and start early, I am in a world with many, maybe even half the population being veterans in a game. This loses some of that fresh appeal to me.
[/quote]
There will be non headstart servers you can join. (A little bit research and you would have found this out.)
As for playing Alpha and Beta being P2W that's very subjective. Learning a mechanic to only have it change or using skills that get nerfed into the ground or changed completely is not exactly winning. Let's not forget the character wipes over and over again. Sure these players will have some more insight into the game. But, you'll be able to use that information to your advantage. Read up on the wiki, watch videos on the game, watch the class combos you'd like to play to see if you'll really like it or not.
If you really are interested in the game you should at least put $1 on the kickstarter so you'll get all the backer goal rewards. Even if you never play the game (or it never comes out) it's only a dollar.
If I were to stand on the street corner and give out $50 bills someone would complain that I wasn't handing out $100 bill.
Bet that.
I don't think that the same thing will ever happen in AoC.
To be fair, though, I think that your average person that spent money on this game will be more motivated to excel than your average player. Therefore, the people that payed money may tend do better than those that didn't - but it probably won't be because of the money itself, if you get what I'm trying to say.
Uhu. Of course not.
Nudge nudge wink wink
Advantage of pre-trialling the game in betas? : Yup you get a few more hours to experiment, and people are daft if they don't recognise that it's an advantage, but again it's only a temporary one. If it's that much of a big deal, then start a forum thread as to why you deserve someone to give you a free key for beta. You might get lucky!
Better still, pledge and support this game.
Uhu. Of course not.
Nudge nudge wink wink
[/quote]
LOL, nice try. Though that is more of a pay to convenience.
What they could sell you in the cash shop is something that enhances your XP bar that makes it look like you are leveling faster. Big burst of XP for each kill, but then it slowly creeps back to what you really earned. To subtle to notice. But if you look at the XP numbers they are always correct.