The Problem with Female Armor in MMOs

ArchivedUser

I'm using a link because I can't post it for some reason? ._.
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A9GUrIwD_k216wH5yPys8lrU491RAZlTyr9agdzLAN8/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A9GUrIwD_k216wH5yPys8lrU491RAZlTyr9agdzLAN8/edit?usp=sharing</a>

ArchivedUser

I hope they do away with the high heels stereotype for female armors, I've always hated that.

Try running or fighting in heels and come back to me! Yeahh.

ArchivedUser

ugh i know right?
Like, I can understand a slight heel for horse riding, but stilettos are a bit too much lol

ArchivedUser

I get the message, and agree with your sentiments. In all fairness, both females, and males, get "hyper stylized' in video games. Females usually have "uber breasts/butts", with slim waists, and accentuated clothing. Dudes usually vary between roguishly handsome men, to ultra pretty boys, with bodies straight from a Abercombie & Fitch magazine.

I would keep in mind though that it is a game, and different people may like to see their avatars look a certain way, despite one's own preference. So, instead of limiting the choices players have, I would broaden them so that, for those that want a more practical look, can have it. And, for those players, male or female, that want a more "unique" look, they can have that, too. Nothing immersion breaking, though. Just my thoughts.

ArchivedUser

lol all hail the almighty boob slighter!

I think the female armor sexiness issue comes from guys playing as sexy females . . . I'm not really sure when that started picking up but well I think there should be a choice. I would like to see sexy as a choice rather than forced everyone to wear the same sort of sexy armor.

Waifu syndrome

ArchivedUser

infiniToaster Wrote:
"When people critique armor sets in videogames (especially the ridiculousness that is female character armor) they tend to talk about practicality. While practicality can be a good measuring stick, it doesn't really address the problem at it's root. There are plenty of armor designs for male characters that are horribly impractical, but don't have the same problems that many female armor sets do.
The main problem is simply this: when designing male characters, game devs primarily think, "what will look cool/interesting/realistic?" and when designing female characters, they primarily think, "what will look sexy?" This is what causes the blatant disparity between how characters look.
I want to believe the devs of Ashes of Creation want their game to be more immersive than previous mmos, which is why I also believe they actually do want their female characters to look like they belong in the world. Therefore, they should have the same design philosophy for characters of either gender - or rather, gender should have little to no impact on their design philosophy.

I've heard some people battle this with, "they should have sexy armor sets for male characters too, to balance it out!" but like...why?

Honestly I don't understand why everything needs to have some sexy content in it all the time. Why do people feel the need to jack off to everything? There's plenty of porn made specifically for that purpose! XD You can come back and play after you've sorted yourself out :P"
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My thoughts and I seriously do not want to belittle your concerns, OP; but for heaven's sake this is the same topic that I never see coming as games are being put together. It certainly always comes along though.
This is an old arguement.

On second thought, I'm not going to touch this except to say "sorting myself out" isn't why I might want to play a female avatar that I design to look like a fantasy game exaggeration of an attractive female heroin. I design male avatars the same way.

ArchivedUser

infiniToaster Wrote:
"When people critique armor sets in videogames (especially the ridiculousness that is female character armor) they tend to talk about practicality. While practicality can be a good measuring stick, it doesn't really address the problem at it's root. There are plenty of armor designs for male characters that are horribly impractical, but don't have the same problems that many female armor sets do.
The main problem is simply this: when designing male characters, game devs primarily think, "what will look cool/interesting/realistic?" and when designing female characters, they primarily think, "what will look sexy?" This is what causes the blatant disparity between how characters look.
I want to believe the devs of Ashes of Creation want their game to be more immersive than previous mmos, which is why I also believe they actually do want their female characters to look like they belong in the world. Therefore, they should have the same design philosophy for characters of either gender - or rather, gender should have little to no impact on their design philosophy.

I've heard some people battle this with, "they should have sexy armor sets for male characters too, to balance it out!" but like...why?

Honestly I don't understand why everything needs to have some sexy content in it all the time. Why do people feel the need to jack off to everything? There's plenty of porn made specifically for that purpose! XD You can come back and play after you've sorted yourself out :P"

ArchivedUser

Thing is, I have seen just as many woman argue for sexy gear as men :/
Note I said sexy and not slutty.
There appears to be a big difference to women from what I can tell.

Many women even demand sexy styling for the men too.
Although, I find it immensely difficult to even visualise what sexy means in a male context.
But, I am a manly male without any vanity issues of any kind lol.
So no surprise there.

Anyway, form me it appears to be slutwear thats the main gripe.
Stay away from that and I think the vast majority would be content.

ArchivedUser

Some of the older games like NwN2 had a in game inter face, were users can designe their armor and outfits to were they like it.

Would like to see some thing like this in AoC.

-Ravossel

ArchivedUser

Ill be honest. I enjoy oggling skimpy cladded girls in rpg games. Almost every character i made was a female with a nice backside.

But this game is different. Im gonna make a male! I'll fight my urges because this game deserves more than just boobs!

ArchivedUser

I don't mind the idea of a sexy character to be honest, so long as the armor remains practical. Heels drive me up the wall when I see them in games. My girl is going out to fight mutant lizards in a swamp in the rain, better bring the ol' pumps.

On casters I don't mind it as much, since there's something of a regal air about them, bards being super stylish for example seems like a staple of the class where it might be fitting. But if I roll Tank/Tank, I want her to look like a tank/tank. Or at least I'd like to have the option to.

ArchivedUser

<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/the-problem-with-female-armor-in-mmos/#post-25373">Shirikuryu wrote:</a></div>Ill be honest. I enjoy oggling skimpy cladded girls in rpg games. Almost every character i made was a female with a nice backside.

But this game is different. Im gonna make a male! I’ll fight my urges because this game deserves more than just boobs!

</blockquote>

I appreciate your honesty lol XD But really, like you said, since ashes of creation is going to be better than your standard mmo, it deserves better than the stuff that lesser mmos do to their female characters in my opinion :P

ArchivedUser

I appreciate your honesty lol XD But really, like you said, since ashes of creation is going to be better than your standard mmo, it deserves better than the stuff that lesser mmos do to their female characters in my opinion :P

ArchivedUser

I believe I've heard the developers talk about a transmogrification system so as long as we can get a balance between normal and skimpy outfits then it'd be fine. People that likes eye candy/skimpy outfits/high heels would have plenty of choices and those among us that don't would also have plenty of choices.

The problem is that usually it's always skimpy/high heels. *cries*

ArchivedUser

I've heard this issue come up a few times in the forum or streams and as I recall, Intrepid said that they were going to try to make the characters look as realistic to the time period as possible. But, you can only take their word for at the moment.

This alpha footage is the only thing we have to look at for the female clothes design: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHTWhIF5cqI" target="_blank">Link</a>

I believe Steven did get some backlash for the design and I'm assuming it's for the side boob that the character had in the outfit. But, from this footage, this outfit is on the better end of female MMO battle outfit than others. As long as we keep telling the developers what we want for the game, then we shouldn't have that big of an issue for female clothing.

ArchivedUser

Should add the boob slider into the post and weird breast mechanics in Asian MMOs as well.

ArchivedUser

But surely this is an asian thing. I agree nothing says "armour" like a g-string and heels. It's stupid and one of the main reasons I don't like Asian MMO's or RPGS.

ArchivedUser

Enticing armour of infatuation.
Locks players in place, transfixed by your assets, for 30 seconds.

ArchivedUser

The meme goes back to pre-internet days with comics like this in Dragon magazine;

<img src="https://ci.memecdn.com/5686190.jpg" alt="Bikini Chainmail" />


Classy yet functional;

<img src="http://media-cache-ak1.pinimg.com/originals/bc/e3/76/bce376e7fa6b0ef3f754ef988d68e521.jpg" alt="Better Female Chainmail Armor" />

ArchivedUser

I feel you. It's my pet peeve in some MMOs I've played. I just can't get over running around in stilettos on unpaved ground scantily dressed and calling that proper armor. :P

(The forum is buggy, I wonder why. I wish you were able to write it in your first post. It's a great short enough post and shouldn't have needed to be posted in a link. I dislike links lol.)

ArchivedUser

That

<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/the-problem-with-female-armor-in-mmos/#post-24770">Chanelle wrote:</a></div>I hope they do away with the high heels stereotype for female armors, I’ve always hated that.

Try running or fighting in heels and come back to me! Yeahh.

</blockquote>

That's just because you're not a Goddes as this girl jumping on a slope while running and playing the violin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFLqGqmIrQU

She can do ANYTHING on high heels :)

ArchivedUser

<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/the-problem-with-female-armor-in-mmos/#post-24770">Chanelle wrote:</a></div>I hope they do away with the high heels stereotype for female armors, I’ve always hated that.

Try running or fighting in heels and come back to me! Yeahh.

</blockquote>

That's just because you're not a Goddes as this girl jumping on a slope while running and playing the violin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFLqGqmIrQU

She can do ANYTHING on high heels :)

ArchivedUser

I agree, it's not difficult to make a female warrior that looks like it, and even keeps some feminine traits
It's proven that it's possible...even in games with huge jiggly whipswordwielders
<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_niKllhw2aCQ/Sd0OxlDrSkI/AAAAAAAAAG8/nzw4lEVKs4o/s400/soul_calibur_motivator_4_by_airdjinn.jpg" alt="Female Armor!" />

ArchivedUser

<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/the-problem-with-female-armor-in-mmos/page/2/#post-26448">SaintJoanna wrote:</a></div>Id like to see armor sets like this.

<div class="">


</div>
</blockquote>

what armor? i don't see armor here, that's just clothes

ArchivedUser

<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/the-problem-with-female-armor-in-mmos/page/2/#post-26448">SaintJoanna wrote:</a></div>Id like to see armor sets like this.

<div class="">


</div>
</blockquote>

what armor? i don't see armor, only clothes

ArchivedUser

<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/the-problem-with-female-armor-in-mmos/page/2/#post-26448">SaintJoanna wrote:</a></div>Id like to see armor sets like this.


</blockquote>

what armor? i don't see armor, only clothes

ArchivedUser

what armor? there is no armor, that are just clothes

ArchivedUser

I'd be most happy with anything that caters to all kinds of player preference based on their individual tastes and interests. Based on the developer's stated opinion it appears they are keen to promote the idea of roleplay and lore, so I think it's extremely likely they will make a point of having “practical” armour - or at least they will to a certain degree. Having variation in colour and design is pretty key just to make things look more cosmetically appealing to look at, and that will inevitably break narrative on occasion.

That being said however, if they eradicate something like sexy, skimpy armour they are also eliminating a preference for a large demographic of players. I think that is actually quite unfair in itself. Removing it acts for... what purpose, exactly? I don't know if there's much justification in it unless you're really, really into the lore and it would just be too jarring for you to see scantily clad women everywhere.

But even if that is the case for you - not everyone would take lore as seriously and would like to have options of different designed armour including sexy armours.

In most games that have different armour sets generally speaking you do get variation in their designs. Some are skimpy, some are practical, some are cutesy, some are silly - They're not ALL skimpy on the female characters. That's an absurd generalisation.

ArchivedUser

I'd be most happy with anything that caters to all kinds of player preference based on individual taste. Regarding the developer's opinion it seems they are quite fixated on the idea of roleplaying and lore so I think that what can be gauged from that at the very least that they will have some "practical" armour. Or at least to a certain degree. For as long as you want to keep things visually interesting - either by colour choice or actual look, you're going to inevitably have design choices that do break narrative.

Despite that, if they remove something like sexy, skimpy armour, they're also removing a preference for a rather large demographic of player. That sort of seems unfair in and of itself, since removing that serves... what purpose, exactly? I don't think it can be justified as long as a large portion of the players like it as an option, unless you're super into the lore and it would just be too jarring for you to see scantily clad women.

But that being said, even if a person does think the lore is important, that won't be something that is top priority for every single player. They would prefer to remove some aspects of the lore in exchange for different, interesting designed armour. Some of them sexier than others.

Besides having a blanket statement like all women's armor in MMOs is sexy designs is an absurd overstatement. Yes, some are, but some are cutesy, some are silly, some are practical, and some are sexy. But not all of them are.

ArchivedUser

if you want to wear clothes to a sword fight then get ready to be full of holes.

Edit
Dang had this topic open to long its to the post of the musketeer.

ArchivedUser

My bard, love the outfit...looks like what I envision a bard would wear.
Notice no high heels ;)

http://i.imgur.com/JnNCQaO.png

Thanks braiks111