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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Why the Corruption Mechanics Are Legit and Perfectly Fine as A Starting Point
So, what we know so far:
Corruption is gained by killing players flagged as Noncombatants.
The more that you kill Noncombatant flagged characters and the greater level divide(in your favor) the higher your Corruption score goes.
When Corruption grows and while you are corrupt, you will be subject to attribute or effective skills penalties.
When Corrupt you will be visible on the map to players with Bounty Hunter skills.
When Corrupt and killed your Corruption level will decrease and you may drop some of your gear and inventory.
When Corrupt and killed you will take xp debt at three times the regular penalty. This debt will not de level your character.
Why is this all ok and a great system? Of all of the hardships know so far for being Courrupt there is only one that universally can't be gamed by clever RPK artists.
[u]Dropping gear:[/u] Can be gamed by simply not wearing expensive gear or taking it off to be killed by a friend.
[u]Bounty Hunters:[/u] If you play smart, your friend"The Bounty Hnter" can arrange a meet and you can split any reward with him.
[u]XP Penalties:[/u] Once you get to max level in your combat skills, xp debt means nothing. When you are far above the average newish player, xp debt means nothing. There is no level loss for xp debt.
[u]Skill PenaltiesWhile Corrupt:[/u] This here is the only drawback to the "RPK Control Mechanics" that a skilled and tricksie RPK artist simply can't control or get around with some fancy footwork and the more he does it the weaker he will get.
So, if you really want to play this awesome looking game but are nervous about a RPK environment, TAKE HEART! It is going to be as unlikely that you will see tons of random PVP as it is that you will beat Steven to level cap! You will see some, more than likely. It will be pretty rare a month or so after launch...
Corruption is gained by killing players flagged as Noncombatants.
The more that you kill Noncombatant flagged characters and the greater level divide(in your favor) the higher your Corruption score goes.
When Corruption grows and while you are corrupt, you will be subject to attribute or effective skills penalties.
When Corrupt you will be visible on the map to players with Bounty Hunter skills.
When Corrupt and killed your Corruption level will decrease and you may drop some of your gear and inventory.
When Corrupt and killed you will take xp debt at three times the regular penalty. This debt will not de level your character.
Why is this all ok and a great system? Of all of the hardships know so far for being Courrupt there is only one that universally can't be gamed by clever RPK artists.
[u]Dropping gear:[/u] Can be gamed by simply not wearing expensive gear or taking it off to be killed by a friend.
[u]Bounty Hunters:[/u] If you play smart, your friend"The Bounty Hnter" can arrange a meet and you can split any reward with him.
[u]XP Penalties:[/u] Once you get to max level in your combat skills, xp debt means nothing. When you are far above the average newish player, xp debt means nothing. There is no level loss for xp debt.
[u]Skill PenaltiesWhile Corrupt:[/u] This here is the only drawback to the "RPK Control Mechanics" that a skilled and tricksie RPK artist simply can't control or get around with some fancy footwork and the more he does it the weaker he will get.
So, if you really want to play this awesome looking game but are nervous about a RPK environment, TAKE HEART! It is going to be as unlikely that you will see tons of random PVP as it is that you will beat Steven to level cap! You will see some, more than likely. It will be pretty rare a month or so after launch...
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Comments
If you really want to gank folk, just level up a few alts and then turn them into red zombies - go have some ganking fun.
Random PK is not the issue.
The problems will be with the PvPers attacking for "legit" reasons when PvEers are not in the mood.
It's going to cause contention. Either because the PvEers will be forced to fight when they don't want to... or they will not fight back and cause their attackers to gain corruption when the attackers don't deserve.
Keep your eyes peeled...because there's reason for concern...we just need more info...which we won't get for many months.
Don't let the hardcore PvPers snow you into thinking there is nothing to be concerned about...
Im from Node A... and Node B is hindering our progres, so i want to kill them... i get corruption, and then my ally from Node A kills me
Sure you can have node vs node warfare but thats based on the leaders of the node declaring war and however that works and waiting for that. It could hinder you. You could attack a caravan but i doubt that is a solo endevour
Im from Node A… and Node B is hindering our progres, so i want to kill them… i get corruption, and then my ally from Node A kills me
Sure you can have node vs node warfare but thats based on the leaders of the node and waiting for that. It could hinder you. You could attack a caravan but i doubt that is a solo endevour
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There are several ways to arrange that you will not get corruption for that example. Node wars, guild wars, caravans.
Im from Node A… and Node B is hindering our progres, so i want to kill them… i get corruption, and then my ally from Node A kills me
Sure you can have node vs node warfare but thats based on the leaders of the node and waiting for that. It could hinder you. You could attack a caravan but i doubt that is a solo endevour
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What about guild wars? Guilds living in the same Node can even fight if they want,
I have said this about 17 times. That Good PVP stuff is about the only kind that you can avoid if you want to.
So, a formal ally can't kill you. I don't know why an informal ally would want to kill you. You still get xp debt and other penalties you have to deal with after corruption is removed.
In my experience, most griefing comes from "legitimate PvPers" rather than PKers.
Likely to remain true in Ashes...but, we will see.
In my experience, most griefing comes from “legitimate PvPers” rather than PKers.
Likely to remain true in Ashes…but, we will see.
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Oh really? Is this anyone else's experience? You guys getting griefed through arranged PVP conflict? Do you prefer to be attacked by someone because they SEE you in range or do you prefer PVP that you know is "ON" so that you can avoid it if you wish?
P.S. Let's not get into a name twisting thing here Dygz. I had hopes that you were better.
If someone is skilled (and smart) enough he should be able to avoid getting killed by others in 1 vs 1 by outmatching (outsmarting) them. If people really want to win vs skilled corrupted player they still have an option of grouping up and seeking him out, and using better tactics.
If a skilled player gets to be killed simply because his skill points were nerfed to the ground to allow even a totally unskilled player to kill him, this would just be waaay to LAME.
Just my 2 cents.
I only have an issue with skill points drop while corrupted.
If someone is skilled (and smart) enough he should be able to avoid getting killed by others in 1 vs 1 by outmatching (outsmarting) them. If people really want to win vs skilled corrupted player they still have an option of grouping up and seeking him out, and using better tactics.
If a skilled player gets to be killed simply because his skill points were nerfed to the ground to allow even a totally unskilled player to kill him, this would just be waaay to LAME.
Just my 2 cents.
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So, a formal ally can’t kill you. I don’t know why an informal ally would want to kill you. You still get xp debt and other penalties you have to deal with after corruption is removed.
</blockquote>
You don't think that two guilds that happen to live in the same Node's ZOI would be likely to fight for many reasons?
"You can’t be killed by members in your party, raid, guild or alliance.
So, a formal ally can’t kill you. [u]I don’t know why an informal ally would want to kill you. You still get xp debt and other penalties you have to deal with after corruption is removed.[/u]"
You don't think that two guilds that happen to live in the same Node's ZOI (assuming you mean informal allies?) would be likely to fight for many reasons? You are aware that in a declared guild throwdown, no one from the guilds involved will take on corruption? Otherwise I don't understand your response.
Dygz wrote:
"@ ringlets
In my experience, most griefing comes from “legitimate PvPers” rather than PKers.
Likely to remain true in Ashes…but, we will see."
Your other response, well I am not quite sure I grasp that either. See cause Good PVP is about the only kind that you can see coming. You can do things to avoid it if you chose to. Most people that have concerns are on the same page that it is That Random Guy who comes along and kills you who is the biggest problem. There are too many personal opinions to worry about for game developers to address them on an individual basis.
But that's a great example of an asshat PvPer.
I have no clue what you mean by "Good PvP".
Lots of people are still concerned about PvP combat. As well they should be.
The devs will have to show; not tell.
I suppose that we can start with: What do you consider to be an informal ally? Is it another guild living in a Node's ZOI but not allied to some other guild there? Maybe I need to understand what you mean.
[snip]
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Dygz has issues with what he refers to as 'non-consensual' PvP. Meaning, any time he does not want to PvP, he shouldn't have to in his eyes. I've chatted about it with him in the past, but he's resolute on that. It doesn't matter the reason someone else wants to instigate PvP, if he does not want to it is irrevocably wrong.
I disagree with this stance, because I don't feel I need to ask everyone ever if it's "ok" to flag up on someone. People playing the game know full well that it will be OWPvP, and you can be ganked at any time. Maybe I want the nice ore you're mining. Maybe I want a challenge. Maybe you're from that guild that ransacked my trade caravan. Maybe someone doesn't like you and will pay me for killing you.
1. Does not mean that All Sides have to want it.
2. Does assume that if you are flagged "Combatant" that you are willing to fight. <---This is its weakest truth as far as I am concerned, but as I said, my singular concern isn't enough to change a game's mechanics.
The assumption that being flagged as combatant means you're willing to fight is a poor assumption - very likely to cause quite a bit of contention.
Being flagged as a combatant doesn't mean there will be no penalties. Generally, there will be penalties for the avatar that is killed. Just the fewest penalties.
Right. Penalties to the victim of ANY KIND OF PVP were not really part of the OP. You get the same penalties flagged "Combatant" doing PVP or PVE, unless I am mistaken.
So, what do you mean by the phrase "informal allies"? Would love to know....
If you really want to gank folk, just level up a few alts and then turn them into red zombies – go have some ganking fun.
Random PK is not the issue.
The problems will be with the PvPers attacking for “legit” reasons when PvEers are not in the mood.
It’s going to cause contention. Either because the PvEers will be forced to fight when they don’t want to… or they will not fight back and cause their attackers to gain corruption when the attackers don’t deserve.
Keep your eyes peeled…because there’s reason for concern…we just need more info…which we won’t get for many months.
Don’t let the hardcore PvPers snow you into thinking there is nothing to be concerned about…
</blockquote>
I'm sorry, but I don't really understand the concerns here. The point of ganking is not just to kill other players, but to overpower them. And you really can't do that with a partially leveled alt. What? Does the person in question plan to level up a new alt EVERY time they feel like ganking. Considering equipment, maintenance, and who knows how long it'll take to level up a character to a decent level for ganking (might be fast or slow at this point) it all seems rather inefficient just to gank a few players.
As for PvPers attacking PvEer for "legit" reasons. Well, that's really vague. What would be considered a "legit" reason to PK a PvEer? PvEers are more interested in the world rather than the conflict. They'll literally have nothing to do with any PvP reasons that may come up. Unless we're talking about Caravans, Sieges, or Guild Wars, then they're not PvEers anymore. If a PvPer attacks a PvEer for no other reason than "because they're there," and then kills them without retaliation because the other player wasn't interested in fighting, then hypothetically, yes, the Corruption is deserved. It's not like the PvPer couldn't see that the target wasn't fighting back and, you know, not kill them. And it's not like the PvEer gets off scot-free. If they don't fight back and die, then they get a larger death penalty.
And if this is about wanting to have "enemies around every corner" and "kill on sight" kind of thing, then you could just make a guild and declare war on every guild you can find. And those PvE focused guilds who decline the declaration of war can be considered NPC's in the world, just doing their thing.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be contradictory or argumentative. I just don't understand your point of view on this. I understand that the system isn't ideal for those who thrive in PvP environments, but there seems to be enough mechanics to adapt the system to your liking, at least to an extent. However, my own stance is that of a passive PKKer wherein the system works for me, so I might be missing something here.
If Ziz was alluding to being killed by an "ally" in order to remove corruption, you still have to deal with xp debt and the other death penalties.
An informal ally would be someone who is helping you with content but who is not in a formal party, raid, guild or alliance.
I only have an issue with skill points drop while corrupted.
If someone is skilled (and smart) enough he should be able to avoid getting killed by others in 1 vs 1 by outmatching (outsmarting) them. If people really want to win vs skilled corrupted player they still have an option of grouping up and seeking him out, and using better tactics.
If a skilled player gets to be killed simply because his skill points were nerfed to the ground to allow even a totally unskilled player to kill him, this would just be waaay to LAME.
Just my 2 cents.
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</blockquote>
That's kind of the point though, that by repeatedly murdering (not the same as killing in this game) low level or less skilled players you will just drag yourself down to a level playing field that they can fight back on.
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/why-the-corruption-mechanics-are-legit-and-perfectly-fine-as-a-starting-point/#post-25365">Gothix wrote:</a></div>——————
I only have an issue with skill points drop while corrupted.
If someone is skilled (and smart) enough he should be able to avoid getting killed by others in 1 vs 1 by outmatching (outsmarting) them. If people really want to win vs skilled corrupted player they still have an option of grouping up and seeking him out, and using better tactics.
If a skilled player gets to be killed simply because his skill points were nerfed to the ground to allow even a totally unskilled player to kill him, this would just be waaay to LAME.
Just my 2 cents.
——————–
</blockquote>
That's kind of the point though, that by repeatedly murdering (not the same as killing in this game) low level or less skilled players you will just drag yourself down to a level playing field that they can fight back on.
@Gothix
That's kind of the point though, that by repeatedly murdering (not the same as killing in this game) low level or less skilled players you will just drag yourself down to a level playing field that they can fight back on.
I don't know why @Bringslite and @Dygz do this in every thread. Dygz has a pretty clear position: all PvP should be fully consensual to the degree that maybe only dueling is 'Good PvP'. I don't know if that's his real position or if he's just playing devil's advocate on behalf of people who'd rather there be zero PvP.
Of course Intrepid has already made it quite clear that won't be the way PvP is handled in this game so there is no need get ruffled feathers about it.
I post like I do, as far as the OP goes, to help people understand better as I have come to that this first pass at moderating PVP is looking pretty good. About all that might need messing with are the numbers involved and they can figure that out through trial and error.
Honestly why I fight with Dygz? Not sure. Possibly because I read things into what Dygz writes that he may not mean the way I seem to take them? And I get frustrated. He is free to post wherever he likes. I just wish that he would take his negativity and post it in other threads.
I do get the impression that you feel defeated about the whole PVP thing, Dygz and you are just being sullen about it. Cheer up! Encourage people to try the game the way it is meant to be played! And don't call me ringlets or I'll call you late for dinner!
Well on a more serious note murder shouldnt go unpunished I'd love to be a bounty hunter. In the old really old mmo's i remember people banding together to get rid of the griefer though that was so long ago
I'm just keeping it real.
The devs have a corruption mechanic which they hope will curtail PKing.
That's great.
But, we won't know how well that works for PvErs and casual PvPers. It's fine to hope that it's solved.
But, we shouldn't pretend that it's solved just because there is talk of good intentions.
Show - not tell.
Devs have talked - talked - talked about all kinds of features that never get implemented at all or well.
That's been the case for 20+ years.
So, no. the corruption mechanic is not perfectly fine - far from it actually.
It's a starting point. Sure. We agree on that much.
We have at least one person here in the forums who says that there is no consent unless players verbally give consent before they're attacked. That is an extreme view. The vast amjority of PvPers are not going to agree to that. There are a whole lot of people who are in the middle of the extremes for whom the Ashes mechanics we know of don't offer a decent resolution.
No reason to pretend otherwise.
But, we will have to actually play - with the mechanics and with the Ashes community- before we can get a clear understanding of how well the various playstyles will get along on the same servers.
That's not being "negative". That's being realistic. As opposed to being overly optimistic.
I’m just keeping it real.
The devs have a corruption mechanic which they hope will curtail PKing.
That’s great.
But, we won’t know how well that works for PvErs and casual PvPers. It’s fine to hope that it’s solved.
But, we shouldn’t pretend that it’s solved just because there is talk of good intentions.
Show – not tell.
Devs have talked – talked – talked about all kinds of features that never get implemented at all or well.
That’s been the case for 20+ years.
So, no. the corruption mechanic is not perfectly fine – far from it actually.
It’s a starting point. Sure. We agree on that much.
We have at least one person here in the forums who says that there is no consent unless players verbally give consent before they’re attacked. That is an extreme view. The vast amjority of PvPers are not going to agree to that. There are a whole lot of people who are in the middle of the extremes for whom the Ashes mechanics we know of don’t offer a decent resolution.
No reason to pretend otherwise.
But, we will have to actually play – with the mechanics and with the Ashes community- before we can get a clear understanding of how well the various playstyles will get along on the same servers.
That’s not being “negative”. That’s being realistic. As opposed to being overly optimistic.
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it's true, it won't perfect, you cannot stop PKers without destroying open world PVP. well, it will work(hopefully) and curb PKing fairly well.