Yes, Instead of that guy that doesn't help you out for allowing them to gather at the expense of your life. . . lets take that guy out first, and then fight :) the PvPers code of chivalry lmao
The world is a better place that way.
Oh better yet, because said PvE'r has entered a "fighting zone that extends 50m" all around they automatically become combatants for trying to take advantage of it muahahaha risk vs reward.
Oh don't even get me started at the "orc is bigust" therefore, should be a super tank and "grunts". . . *loses to the elf tank.* Proceeds spams forums how OP elves are and how the game is broken and how "logically" orcs should be tankier than elves cause their "Roleplay orc build" isnt as powerful.
Like-minded mobs then demand nerfs. That although the elf could of been simply more skilled gets nerfed into nothing.
you mi frend expresed mi thots exactly TY i will add that it is not just abaut being forced in to pvp (MEASURING ,,SPINES'' for thats all what pvp is )is not fun but i also depice pvp cuz of it i am simply glad cuz i dont have to become a citizen and oh yes this tread is a joke
There is one area of MMO games though, where PvPers were always at disadvantage to PvEers.
At obtaining the gear.
PvP was never an area where you could obtain the gear, sometimes you could, but its effectiveness was below the level of gear you could obtain from PvE.
So even if original post was made as joke, there is an actual area where PvPers can fairly say that they are at objective disadvantage to PvEers.
@Gothix fair point. Seeing as how Steven said there won't be PVP gear (you use your PVE gear when PVPing), it'll be interesting to see where they go with balancing PVP and PVE.
Even if they make it so PVP offers good item rewards, PVP lovers will find it hard to be a dedicated PVPer at all stages of the game. I received the impression that sieges will be a mid to late game activity after nodes are more leveled up and players are higher level. And, there won't be enough caravans for you to be a PVP bodyguard / raider all day lol.
One fault in that, they say the best gear will be crafted. Meaning there'll be no disadvantage for said pvp'ers. Myself, I don't gank, very much dislike being ganked, feel impartial about arenas, but absolutely live for open world consensual PvP.
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pveers/#post-30893">Bringslite wrote:</a></div>I hate when PVE crafters undercut me constantly at the marketplaces! If I reply by lowering my price but they just lower Thiers’s again! I hate being grieved by PVE players…
</blockquote>
this is called marketplace pvp ,we use economics like you use your sword only we are deadlier ,we will make you pay every gold you have for that shiny new dagger or rabbit slaying ,for you to only realize that after you bought that you need to buy pots and armor go back only to find that because we were ruthlessly ganked in the field we respond by making the prices so high only the kings can afford our wares...beware the hunter gather's
<blockquote>One fault in that, they say the best gear will be crafted. Meaning there’ll be no disadvantage for said pvp’ers. </blockquote>
Crafting is PvE content mate.
Skins from animals, special drops from dungeon and raid bosses as parts of crafting process, recipes found in dungeons, quests needed to be done as part of profession leveling... etc.
<blockquote>Gothix wrote: There is one area of MMO games though, where PvPers were always at disadvantage to PvEers.
At obtaining the gear.
PvP was never an area where you could obtain the gear, sometimes you could, but its effectiveness was below the level of gear you could obtain from PvE.</blockquote> I guess you've never played NWO. You get PvP gear by engaging in PvP combat. And the PvP gear has the best gear score... which pushes PvEers to participate in PvP combat in order to qualify for the endgame dungeons.
I'm pretty sure that in WoW, PvP gear came from engaging PvP combat. Crafted gear is PvE gear. Endgame gear comes from PvE raids. I imagine BiS gear is typically from PvE raids. But, I don't do endgame raids or endgame in WoW so I don't know how the raid gear compares against endgame PvP gear. I don't think crafting has anything to do with raid gear or endgame PvP gear.
In Ashes, Adventurers are expected to provide Crafters with the resources needed to craft the best gear. So, that's going to be a symbiotic relationship. PvPers loot their victims' dropped resources. So crafting is PvE that is also driven by PvP. And then the PvPers benefit from the finished products for which they supplied the raw materials. There is no disadvantage there.
If it will be like that just one disadvantage remains.
Killing animals for resources doesn't give you corruption, killing people for resources does. :) Meaning getting resources though PvP might make you loose your gear etc.
You can expect the most gear churn, and so the most demand for crafting, to be the result of PVP in this game. Players always find ways to mitigate dying or dying the least times possible in PVE. Someone always dies in PVP encounters. Usually several times per battle but almost always at least once in small encounters.
Gear should be in demand both because of PVE AND PVP. If they do things right, crafters could be just as busy as they ever want to be.
Another thing. This is a humorous thread and I appreciate that, but that REAL FACT is that ALL PLAYERS will likely be PVX players in the long run. Those that believe they are just PVE players will be gathering, processing and crafting many things that will end up being used in PVP. That really is a sort of PVP all by itself. PVE players will also likely eventually have to defend hearth and home from PVP assault.
PVP players will always be doing PVE to advance their characters, simply because it is more efficient exp gain.
Well, you just have to kill people who are willing to fight you back.
You gain corruption from killing people who refuse to fight you. If you don't want corruption, you need to stop attacking when people don't attack back.
There should be quite a few hardcore PvPers who will love to fight with you. Plus sieges and caravan runs, etc where all the participants are combatants.
If the corruption system is really as perfect as some people claim, PvP combat will not always result in someone dying. In Ashes, it should be fairly common for PvP combat not to result in death - when the victim doesn't fight back and the attacker doesn't want corruption.
"In Ashes, it should be fairly common for PvP combat not to result in death – when the victim doesn’t fight back and the attacker doesn’t want corruption."
In those cases, I do hope that attackers back off rather than kill pacifists who refuse to fight back. No argument there and I hope that it is very uncommon. I believe it will be as there isn't really anything to gain from it. Just notoriety, which admittedly, some players crave. All those nuts are doing though really is creating content for lots of other players.
Actually, this scenario IS THE WAY THAT "PVPers" CAN BE VICTIMS OF "PVEers". Make them take the corruption hit when you can, in the few ways that you can...
<blockquote> In those cases, I do hope that attackers back off rather than kill pacifists who refuse to fight back. No argument there and I hope that it is very uncommon. I believe it will be as there isn’t really anything to gain from it. Just notoriety, which admittedly, some players crave. </blockquote>
It really depends on the situation, if attacker knows player has been grinding and now is transporting resources back home (specially if with wagon or caravan), and knows he has something to gain, then yeah he will finish the kill for sure.
If not, many will not finish it if they see it's not worth it.
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pveers/page/3/#post-31745">Gothix wrote:</a></div><blockquote> In those cases, I do hope that attackers back off rather than kill pacifists who refuse to fight back. No argument there and I hope that it is very uncommon. I believe it will be as there isn’t really anything to gain from it. Just notoriety, which admittedly, some players crave.
</blockquote> It really depends on the situation, if attacker knows player has been grinding and now is transporting resources back home (specially if with wagon or caravan), and knows he has something to gain, then yeah he will finish the kill for sure.
If not, many will not finish it if they see it’s not worth it.
</blockquote>
I agree that is a likely outcome. The player that will attack a noncombatant will follow through if they feel there is likely more to gain than lose. Some few will follow through despite loss/profit just to put a notch in their weapon...
Yep. Since you should be able to see the flag the target is flying, I agree that there will be more death than less in that situation. Attacker has already made his calculation for profit/loss/infamy. As I said though, I do hope it is uncommon.
Have to see how the actually numbers work together to have a good idea how uncommon that will be.
A caravan has to be scheduled. That's not a noncombatant scenario. The Moonstrider Mule might be a "flag" that someone is carrying more loot than one person can carry. The death penalty is portion of raw materials dropped from the player character, so I'm guessing the inventory on the mule will be safe. Otherwise, that encourages gankers looking for loot to gank gatherers who have mules.
In a perfect game, I would like a "bandit" to be able to accost me and shake me down for some portion of goods and leave me to go my way with part of my goods afterwards, if I choose to yield to them of course.
In an imperfect game, I would rather play in a world wherein the RPK is attacking me for a reason, such as I likely have "loot", than that he runs about killing for fun alone...
Killing you because you likely have loot is basically the same thing as killing for fun. Looting the corpse is extra incentive for griefers. Causes the victims extra grief.
The beauty of Ashes is that the incentives for PvP combat will be more meaningful than stealing loot.
Another thing. This is a humorous thread and I appreciate that, but that REAL FACT is that ALL PLAYERS will likely be PVX players in the long run. Those that believe they are just PVE players will be gathering, processing and crafting many things that will end up being used in PVP. That really is a sort of PVP all by itself. PVE players will also likely eventually have to defend hearth and home from PVP assault.
PVP players will always be doing PVE to advance their characters, simply because it is more efficient exp gain.
What you are describing is PvP conflict. Which is actually separate from, though related to PvP combat.
PvE adventurers and casual PvP adventurers aren't concerned about PvP conflict - actually they are eager to participate in that. They do have concerns over being forced into direct PvP combat when they aren't in the mood to directly participate in PvP combat.
Comments
The world is a better place that way.
Oh better yet, because said PvE'r has entered a "fighting zone that extends 50m" all around they automatically become combatants for trying to take advantage of it muahahaha risk vs reward.
Oh don't even get me started at the "orc is bigust" therefore, should be a super tank and "grunts". . . *loses to the elf tank.* Proceeds spams forums how OP elves are and how the game is broken and how "logically" orcs should be tankier than elves cause their "Roleplay orc build" isnt as powerful.
Like-minded mobs then demand nerfs. That although the elf could of been simply more skilled gets nerfed into nothing.
i will add that it is not just abaut being forced in to pvp (MEASURING ,,SPINES'' for thats all what pvp is )is not fun but i also depice pvp cuz of it i am simply glad cuz i dont have to become a citizen
and oh yes this tread is a joke
At obtaining the gear.
PvP was never an area where you could obtain the gear, sometimes you could, but its effectiveness was below the level of gear you could obtain from PvE.
So even if original post was made as joke, there is an actual area where PvPers can fairly say that they are at objective disadvantage to PvEers.
Even if they make it so PVP offers good item rewards, PVP lovers will find it hard to be a dedicated PVPer at all stages of the game. I received the impression that sieges will be a mid to late game activity after nodes are more leveled up and players are higher level. And, there won't be enough caravans for you to be a PVP bodyguard / raider all day lol.
Myself, I don't gank, very much dislike being ganked, feel impartial about arenas, but absolutely live for open world consensual PvP.
I hate being grieved by PVE players…
</blockquote>
this is called marketplace pvp ,we use economics like you use your sword only we are deadlier ,we will make you pay every gold you have for that shiny new dagger or rabbit slaying ,for you to only realize that after you bought that you need to buy pots and armor go back only to find that because we were ruthlessly ganked in the field we respond by making the prices so high only the kings can afford our wares...beware the hunter gather's
</blockquote>
Crafting is PvE content mate.
Skins from animals, special drops from dungeon and raid bosses as parts of crafting process, recipes found in dungeons, quests needed to be done as part of profession leveling... etc.
PvE.
There is one area of MMO games though, where PvPers were always at disadvantage to PvEers.
At obtaining the gear.
PvP was never an area where you could obtain the gear, sometimes you could, but its effectiveness was below the level of gear you could obtain from PvE.</blockquote>
I guess you've never played NWO. You get PvP gear by engaging in PvP combat. And the PvP gear has the best gear score... which pushes PvEers to participate in PvP combat in order to qualify for the endgame dungeons.
I'm pretty sure that in WoW, PvP gear came from engaging PvP combat.
Crafted gear is PvE gear.
Endgame gear comes from PvE raids. I imagine BiS gear is typically from PvE raids.
But, I don't do endgame raids or endgame in WoW so I don't know how the raid gear compares against endgame PvP gear.
I don't think crafting has anything to do with raid gear or endgame PvP gear.
So....it all depends on the specific MMORPG.
So, that's going to be a symbiotic relationship. PvPers loot their victims' dropped resources.
So crafting is PvE that is also driven by PvP. And then the PvPers benefit from the finished products for which they supplied the raw materials.
There is no disadvantage there.
Killing animals for resources doesn't give you corruption, killing people for resources does. :)
Meaning getting resources though PvP might make you loose your gear etc.
Gear should be in demand both because of PVE AND PVP. If they do things right, crafters could be just as busy as they ever want to be.
PVP players will always be doing PVE to advance their characters, simply because it is more efficient exp gain.
You gain corruption from killing people who refuse to fight you. If you don't want corruption, you need to stop attacking when people don't attack back.
There should be quite a few hardcore PvPers who will love to fight with you.
Plus sieges and caravan runs, etc where all the participants are combatants.
If the corruption system is really as perfect as some people claim, PvP combat will not always result in someone dying.
In Ashes, it should be fairly common for PvP combat not to result in death - when the victim doesn't fight back and the attacker doesn't want corruption.
In those cases, I do hope that attackers back off rather than kill pacifists who refuse to fight back. No argument there and I hope that it is very uncommon. I believe it will be as there isn't really anything to gain from it. Just notoriety, which admittedly, some players crave. All those nuts are doing though really is creating content for lots of other players.
Actually, this scenario IS THE WAY THAT "PVPers" CAN BE VICTIMS OF "PVEers". Make them take the corruption hit when you can, in the few ways that you can...
In those cases, I do hope that attackers back off rather than kill pacifists who refuse to fight back. No argument there and I hope that it is very uncommon. I believe it will be as there isn’t really anything to gain from it. Just notoriety, which admittedly, some players crave.
</blockquote>
It really depends on the situation, if attacker knows player has been grinding and now is transporting resources back home (specially if with wagon or caravan), and knows he has something to gain, then yeah he will finish the kill for sure.
If not, many will not finish it if they see it's not worth it.
In those cases, I do hope that attackers back off rather than kill pacifists who refuse to fight back. No argument there and I hope that it is very uncommon. I believe it will be as there isn’t really anything to gain from it. Just notoriety, which admittedly, some players crave.
</blockquote>
It really depends on the situation, if attacker knows player has been grinding and now is transporting resources back home (specially if with wagon or caravan), and knows he has something to gain, then yeah he will finish the kill for sure.
If not, many will not finish it if they see it’s not worth it.
</blockquote>
I agree that is a likely outcome. The player that will attack a noncombatant will follow through if they feel there is likely more to gain than lose. Some few will follow through despite loss/profit just to put a notch in their weapon...
Have to see how the actually numbers work together to have a good idea how uncommon that will be.
The Moonstrider Mule might be a "flag" that someone is carrying more loot than one person can carry.
The death penalty is portion of raw materials dropped from the player character, so I'm guessing the inventory on the mule will be safe.
Otherwise, that encourages gankers looking for loot to gank gatherers who have mules.
In an imperfect game, I would rather play in a world wherein the RPK is attacking me for a reason, such as I likely have "loot", than that he runs about killing for fun alone...
The beauty of Ashes is that the incentives for PvP combat will be more meaningful than stealing loot.
PvE adventurers and casual PvP adventurers aren't concerned about PvP conflict - actually they are eager to participate in that.
They do have concerns over being forced into direct PvP combat when they aren't in the mood to directly participate in PvP combat.