Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.

Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

Speaking about the PC Gamer article

Greetings, fellow wanderers.

I've lately stumbled upon <a href="http://www.pcgamer.com/ashes-of-creation-kickstarter/" target="_blank">this not-so-flattering PC GAMES article</a>, and I was kinda surprised of not having found a single thread of this forum regarding it (please, tell me if I'm wrong).
The articles contains a number of subtle insinuation about the Intrepid team skills, the referral program legitimacy, and the overall trustworthiness of the whole project. There are no open accusations and no true flaws exposure; still, it's quite a reading, and I encourage everyone to go through it at least once.

<em>(I had to split the post in two due to a forum bug which prevent me to start a topic with too many words)</em>
«1

Comments

  • I'd like to clarify that I was not particularly moved by those words. There's nothing there, in my opinion, truly able to cause distress of my opinion of the game, or to make me lose trust in the developers. I honestly think that the project is solid, sincere and that may represent a significant revolution in the genre. Still, Ashes of Creation is still mostly an embryo, and there is still a long road before its realization. If this community desires to help, I think that problems like this one should be deeply discussed, or at least exposed in order to be extensively commented by the developers themselves.

    The option to just ignore article like this, in my opinion, is not feasible. I've experienced other promising Kickstarter-driven projects being wrecked by media claims, started small but amplified without control because ignored for too long. It has been discussed somewhere in the forum already? I couldn't find any topic regarding this.

    The article, of course, is not the only assumed topic held against AOC. For instance, I've found big criticism about the <a href="http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/464328/unreal-engine-is-a-massive-concern-for-me-and-i-think-many-are-overlooking-it" target="_blank">Unreal Engine 4</a>, depict as not able to manage a large number of players in a single area.

    Please believe me, when I say that I don't want to magnify false problems, but to deal with them before they get a resonance they don't deserve. I'd just really like to hear your opinions about all the matter.
    Thanks in advance to anyone willing to contribute.
  • This was Steven's answer in regards to the article:

    "The author of this article had an obvious agenda when he spoke with us. It is quite a shame.
    Regardless, his reporting of our referral rewards is false, and we have sent a letter to his editor-in-chief for a retraction.
    I'm sorry our community is subject to this style of attack. Our hearts in the studios hurt when reading it."
  • haha. What would you expect Steven to say??
    I hope everyone who backed Ashes have similar concerns as what's outlined in the article and still chose to back anyway.
  • It's fine having concerns, but flat out lying about a system and brining up things that have already been addressed is just sad to see. The 40 year of experience being one of them. Yeah the author sure had an agenda, you can plainly see it on his twitter. Sad, just sad. Made me lose credibility with PC Gamer.
  • Someone claiming to be another writer at pcgamer said the article was a hit piece by the marketing department because Steven didn't buy ad space or a sponsored article on the site. Hence the particular attack/lie on the referral system, which makes traditional advertisement (that sites like pcgamer depend on) largely irrelevant. Might be true, might not. According to Steven the claim that kickstarter pledges won't be applied to referrals is a flat-out lie, and they asked for a retraction...which has yet to come.
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/speaking-about-the-pc-gamer-article/#post-31086">Drokk wrote:</a></div>Someone claiming to be another writer at pcgamer said the article was a hit piece by the marketing department because Steven didn’t buy ad space or a sponsored article on the site. Hence the particular attack/lie on the referral system, which makes traditional advertisement (that sites like pcgamer depend on) largely irrelevant. Might be true, might not. According to Steven the claim that kickstarter pledges won’t be applied to referrals is a flat-out lie, and they asked for a retraction…which has yet to come.

    </blockquote>

    Omg, if the hit piece part is true then.... yeah I've lost any credibility I had with PC Gamer. I remember that I used to read it often when I was younger.
  • If the hit piece part is true... yeah I've lost all of the credibility I had for PC Gamer, so sad, I remember reading that magazine when I was younger.
  • Years of experience does not prevent games from becoming vaporware.
    And, that "hitpiece" had the impact of a limp noodle if that's what it was supposed to be.
    I found it to be closer to fair and realistic than the unbridled hype-train Intrepid is pushing on us.
  • Just read it and anyone that also read it and feels it is an attack should reread it more slowly and without hyper-train goggles on. I didn't get the impression that it was a "hit-piece". It gave Intrepid room to answer the difficult questions and directly confront controversies that far more reckless articles, youtube monkeys, and panic monger alarmists didn't take time to examine about MLM accusations.

    Intrepid does appear to be going out on a limb with what they are claiming to be able to develop. That isn't debatable. Appearances are tricky however. We do not have inside track knowledge and they may already have figured out, theoretically, how to deliver the coding that will make their game run the way that they say it will.

    Face the facts that the MMO base(you, myself, all customers) has been disappointed too often by the whole "multi MMO genre Development Complex" including Huge Corporation funded projects and all the way down to Kickstarter funded projects. Failure to deliver as promised, when promised is THE NORM RATHER THAN THE EXCEPTION. It will continue to be so as long as there is money to be made from failure as well as success.

    Did the article have anything new or devastating to present? No. Did it have any Damning Revelations to reveal? No. Did it change my mind about having some faith in Intrepid to deliver a great product that I hope to play for years? No.

    In short it was just another attempt to stir the pot by a freelance writer that needs to stir things up to sell articles. It's how they become and stay relevant so they can sell more articles. In fact this guy was somewhat less than grandstanding style accusatory and bullhead doom/failure predicting than most such are.
  • All I see is the article's author being super skeptical and everything he quotes is also people being super skeptical. Nothing wrong with that but being skeptical isn't fun... its boring so I wouldn't buy into it. :D
  • Thank you all for your answers, and thank you Glory for posting Steven's answer on this matter. I kinda missed that, where can I find it?

    However, I completely agree with Brinslite's point: this kind of skepticism will be not able to change my mind at all. I have backed this project consciously, and I do think it can become reality. As mentioned before, I didn't want to cause pointless alarmism nor to blindly spread concerns: I intend to debate about how this project is perceived, and what the community may do to improve this. Even a maliciously written, inconclusive piece may be damaging if not promptly managed. I hope that this kind of claims could always be addressed by the developers in such a clear, direct manner.

    Sooner or later, I'd also love to hear from Intrepid studios about those technical issues that may cause distrust. For instance, those critics about the <a href="http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/464328/unreal-engine-is-a-massive-concern-for-me-and-i-think-many-are-overlooking-it" target="_blank">Unreal Engine 4</a>, depict as not able to manage a large number of players in a single area and in general as a not suitable engine for MMOs. Has this issue been already discussed too?

    Even if it's clear that this post too is written with nasty intent (I've seen a couple of posts from the same author, openly against AOC even without an understandable reason), I'd like to hear what Intrepid plans are about the Unreal engine. I've read that there are proofs that this engine may successfully be used to create a functional MMOs, through cooperation between game developers and Unreal team: needless to say that an official insight about the matter would be deeply appreciated.
  • I am the very last person to answer technical questions on game engines. However I can share what I understand from what Intrepid has said on the matter. Seems that Unreal has the ability to create really great enviroments and general graphics and in addition...

    It seems that the Unreal Engine has the ability for it's users to get inside the code and modify what they need to so that they can make it usable for larger participant MMO applications. I wouldn't mind knowing more about this and also hearing or reading confirmation from outside Intrepid but I have some trust that they would not start the project unless they had knowledge that it could be so modified. Just wouldn't make any sense in any other way.

    Things like massive groups of individual avatars in proximity has always been a real challenge, let alone large groups in combat. Can't wait to see if they can pull it off and in a way that the average good gaming machine can deal with! :)
  • I dont read that stuff. I only lisson to myself and what i enjoy.

    So this game gonne be great for what i know so far.
  • I backed the game, I read the article and I am still a backer. I know there is risk and certainly with an MMO that risk is probably much greater.

    What I hope many understand is that the game if/when it does release, it could still be a long time before all the balance issues are worked out and systems work as planned. Heck MMOs that have been released for years change still change things regularly and they have millions of players.

    What I am saying is I hope the community has patience after the game is release and provides constructive feedback. And for gods sake be nice to new players when they arrive. Help them out, thats how the game will grow.
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/speaking-about-the-pc-gamer-article/#post-31149">Townsendvol wrote:</a></div>I backed the game, I read the article and I am still a backer. I know there is risk and certainly with an MMO that risk is probably much greater.

    What I hope many understand is that the game if/when it does release, it could still be a long time before all the balance issues are worked out and systems work as planned. Heck MMOs that have been released for years change still change things regularly and they have millions of players.

    What I am saying is I hope the community has patience after the game is release and provides constructive feedback. And for gods sake be nice to new players when they arrive. Help them out, thats how the game will grow.

    </blockquote>
    +1
  • @ Townsendvol

    +1
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/speaking-about-the-pc-gamer-article/#post-31149">Townsendvol wrote:</a></div>all the balance issues are worked out and systems work as planned. Heck MMOs that have been released for years change still change things regularly and they have millions of players.

    What I am saying is I hope the community has patience after the game is release and provides constructive feedback. And for gods sake be nice to new players when they arrive. Help them out, thats how the game will grow.</blockquote>

    Hell yeah, totally in agreement.
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/speaking-about-the-pc-gamer-article/#post-31149">Townsendvol wrote:</a></div>I backed the game, I read the article and I am still a backer. I know there is risk and certainly with an MMO that risk is probably much greater.

    What I hope many understand is that the game if/when it does release, it could still be a long time before all the balance issues are worked out and systems work as planned. Heck MMOs that have been released for years change still change things regularly and they have millions of players.

    What I am saying is I hope the community has patience after the game is release and provides constructive feedback. And for gods sake be nice to new players when they arrive. Help them out, thats how the game will grow.

    </blockquote>

    Hell yeah, totally in agreement!
  • Who doesn't understand the risk involved? Pointing out skepticism is fine, but it's already on top of everyone's mind. We still choose to back the project regardless because we understand the risk vs. reward. I wouldn't say it's a hit piece but the referral program accusations we're unwarranted.
  • How good a game will be is determined in beta by a dev teams response to feedback from testers. Too many times have I been in a beta where we provided tons of feedback about problems that were ignored by the dev team and the game suffered for it on launch.
  • Using level of expertise to add weight to a hypothetical argument.
    Does not change a hypothetical argument into evidence.
    Thats just selling snake oil.
    It is no better than what they accuse steven of doing.

    1. You say UE4 cant be used for an MMO when everyone knows UE4 cant be used for an MMO 'out of the box' and none has argued otherwise. Which is exactly why access to 100% of the source code was important.
    2. You say it will fail because of the base UE4 code, when you have zero idea what Percentage of UE4 code will be used and what will be swapped out. Unless you are trying to argue that MMOs cant actually be made regardless of any code.
    3. So you have zero idea of what code will be used, zero idea of their MMO technical capability (which could be considerably greater than your own) and yet your obviously faultless talent enables and you to know it will fail. I must say I am impressed with your crystal ball, your free access to intrepid studio basecode and your intimate familiarity with their staffs capabilities.
    In other words, when you have a technical product to criticise, then by all means fire away. At the moment all you are doing is criticising a self created faery tale about what might or might not be the case for a game that is in PRE-ALPHA. Your technical input is worthless at this moment because it is 100% based on assumption. In other words, a baseless smear campaign.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mK_DlUoigg&feature=em-comments
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/speaking-about-the-pc-gamer-article/#post-31159">Bringslite wrote:</a></div>@ Townsendvol

    +1

    </blockquote>

    Thanks :)
  • From what I've seen so far of this games development and other sources on the internet, I can say with confidence that I have faith in the developers. I have backed so many games on Kickstarter from Wasteland 2 and now 3 to board games and many early access games on Steam. some have failed and others are now shining beacons in their categories but I find that people who know what they are doing and have the passion for achieving it are the ones who make the best games so I would take the article with a pinch of salt.
  • Tera uses the Unreal Engine, last time I checked that is an MMO. Also I remember someone posting o reddit about another MMO being made with the Unreal Engine so it's not like it can't be done. Their cheif engineer that's working on the net code with Epic has also many years of experience when it comes to writing net code for MMOs. Pretty sure they know what they are doing.
  • I have been caught out before too. Not only finacially but with time and effort. I spent a year and a half volentarily helping in development of a project as did many others, only for the owners of the game engin to go bankrupt. This was totaly outside of the control of the developers. So anything can hapen. Any time you inveest time or effort in anything it is a calculated risk.

    This artical is just pointing this out with an anti hype agenda. Most journalists write with the aim of getting a reaction. Just writing what everyone else has writen is not going to achieve that.

    Anyway having more than one perspective on a project with objective points of view can be very useful.

    So in closing what has this article achieved? From what I can see it has made an already close and supportive community closer and more supportive. Sent a good few pc gamer readers who may not have heard of this game over to scope out what all the fuss is about. May have detured a few on the fencers, who we all hope will come back nearer the end of development and wish they had had some faith and got their shinys. lol.

    I have been burnt before and decided to back this one anyway, fingers crossed it all goes well.
  • I'm no technical expert either, but from what I understand, UE4 is being used entirely for the graphic visuals and physics. The network and other elements will be coded through Intrepid's custom back end programming. Now, I have heard some concerns about the fact that UE4 is not optimized to communicate with a complex MMO size back end (that guy on Reddit was arguing that UE4 could not handle massive amounts of communication between the front end and back end) , but the devs are adamant that UE4 is flexible enough to be re-programmed wherever necessary. Maybe a network / game programmer could weigh in on the matter.
  • You won't gain anything without taking any risks. ????
  • why does he even bring up Shroud of the Avatar i watched the you tube vids and it looks like what uo kinda sorta should have evolved into 15 years ago
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/speaking-about-the-pc-gamer-article/#post-31135">Rhoqaro wrote:</a></div>Thank you all for your answers, and thank you Glory for posting Steven’s answer on this matter. I kinda missed that, where can I find it?
    </blockquote>

    Steven posts frequently on https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/
  • <blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/speaking-about-the-pc-gamer-article/#post-31135">Rhoqaro wrote:</a></div>Thank you all for your answers, and thank you Glory for posting Steven’s answer on this matter. I kinda missed that, where can I find it?
    </blockquote>

    He posts frequently on https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/
Sign In or Register to comment.