Is it just me? or....

ArchivedUser

I get a feeling looking at the devs and the type of game this is and the features promised that ashes is essentially the game everquest next was meant to be. ASHES NAME EVEN EVOKES THE PHOENIX. Need i say any more?  

ArchivedUser

*shrug*

ArchivedUser

EverQuest 3 never would have launched with only non-consensual combat servers. And they would have put a lot more focus on their end game raiding community as that has been the saving grace of the EQ franchise. It has the largest raiding community of any MMO, including WoW.

ArchivedUser

Well some the people making this game did help make everquest one and two so maybe that why you feel that way

ArchivedUser

Well he's right in the sense that there are some similarities in design concepts. Which to me is baffeling. They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. EQ players won't play a PvP game. They tried ArcheAge because it launched at an opportune time, but hated the PKing and left. This will be no different. Same goes for the WoW, GW2, LOTRO and many other PVE game communities. They will probably come and try this game and then leave within a few weeks.

The EQ community is begging for a new game that they can call home. There has never been a more opportune time to yank millions of PVE players from old and outdated MMO's. So much opportunity there.

ArchivedUser

I think the way Intrepid is trying to allay PvEer's fears is by having very harsh corruption penalties.  I, personally, am hoping that they find a way to make corruption harsh enough that there will be very little ganking of non-combat players.

ArchivedUser

PvP conflict was also the core of EQNext game design.
That was revealed during SOE Live 2014.
And there was a quite a bit of talk of not having separate PvE servers.

LockSixTime came away from a meeting with the EQNext devs thrilled by the vision of not splitting the servers so that the non-combatants would act as support for the PvPers.
Pretty much exactly the way Steven describes crafters supporting PvPers in Ashes.

ArchivedUser

This game will definitely launch. Maybe they won't be able to get all their promises in at launch, and that's okay. Give us a polished, fun game, and built upon that.

ArchivedUser

Stabby said:

Well he's right in the sense that there are some similarities in design concepts. Which to me is baffeling. They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. EQ players won't play a PvP game. They tried ArcheAge because it launched at an opportune time, but hated the PKing and left. This will be no different. Same goes for the WoW, GW2, LOTRO and many other PVE game communities. They will probably come and try this game and then leave within a few weeks.

The EQ community is begging for a new game that they can call home. There has never been a more opportune time to yank millions of PVE players from old and outdated MMO's. So much opportunity there.

You're still thinking their goal "should" be to attract the EQ crowd, and/or to make money. Their streams talk consistently about this being a "Passion Project" and a labor of love to create the game they wish to see and play, not something that is a next-gen of a previous game.

ArchivedUser

T-Elf said:

I think the way Intrepid is trying to allay PvEer's fears is by having very harsh corruption penalties.  I, personally, am hoping that they find a way to make corruption harsh enough that there will be very little ganking of non-combat players.

Harsh enough to ruin the fun for PvP players? The scale has to tip one way or another. 

ArchivedUser

Isende said:

Stabby said:

Well he's right in the sense that there are some similarities in design concepts. Which to me is baffeling. They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. EQ players won't play a PvP game. They tried ArcheAge because it launched at an opportune time, but hated the PKing and left. This will be no different. Same goes for the WoW, GW2, LOTRO and many other PVE game communities. They will probably come and try this game and then leave within a few weeks.

The EQ community is begging for a new game that they can call home. There has never been a more opportune time to yank millions of PVE players from old and outdated MMO's. So much opportunity there.

You're still thinking their goal "should" be to attract the EQ crowd, and/or to make money. Their streams talk consistently about this being a "Passion Project" and a labor of love to create the game they wish to see and play, not something that is a next-gen of a previous game.

As a business man it's hard for me to grasp the concept of creating a business that's not in it to win it. You don't create a business unless you intend to make money. Passion is one thing, survival is another. This is a tough market.

ArchivedUser

Stabby said:

T-Elf said:

I think the way Intrepid is trying to allay PvEer's fears is by having very harsh corruption penalties.  I, personally, am hoping that they find a way to make corruption harsh enough that there will be very little ganking of non-combat players.

Harsh enough to ruin the fun for PvP players? The scale has to tip one way or another. 

Corruption is gained if a player attacks/kills a noncombatant, (not a PVPer). Players who want to PVP and have fun doing so are certainly able to in this experience. This system sounds very similar to the Pathfinder Online mechanic (including Bounty Hunters even).

But if a level 20 character decides to attack a level 2 character, the attacked character has the ability to basically not fight back (it would be pointless anyway, most likely). The attacked character will die (with normal death penalties if any), and the level 20 character becomes corrupted and a viable target for Bounty Hunters and anyone else who might be interested in avenging the poor traveler.

This makes the game sad but interesting for those roleplaying players who like to use permadeath for their character as a type of realism and restraint.

ArchivedUser

It creates a living breathing world where you can have guilds whos only job is to protect people as merc groups who hire out protection to parties from pvper or having bounty hunters role around cities hunting players down. it gives it that new dimension which I never see in games

ArchivedUser

Starglory said:

But if a level 20 character decides to attack a level 2 character, the attacked character has the ability to basically not fight back (it would be pointless anyway, most likely). The attacked character will die (with normal death penalties if any), and the level 20 character becomes corrupted and a viable target for Bounty Hunters and anyone else who might be interested in avenging the poor traveler.

This makes the game sad but interesting for those roleplaying players who like to use permadeath for their character as a type of realism and restraint.

If death penalties/bounties grow proportionately with corruption, this could lead to some interesting gameplay and RP, providing the balance between fear of death and other base motivators remains pretty sharp.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

PvP conflict was also the core of EQNext game design.
That was revealed during SOE Live 2014.
And there was a quite a bit of talk of not having separate PvE servers.

LockSixTime came away from a meeting with the EQNext devs thrilled by the vision of not splitting the servers so that the non-combatants would act as support for the PvPers.
Pretty much exactly the way Steven describes crafters supporting PvPers in Ashes.

Yeah on PvP is where LockSixTime and I parted ways.  Miss that guy.

ArchivedUser

Stabby said:

Well he's right in the sense that there are some similarities in design concepts. Which to me is baffeling. They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. EQ players won't play a PvP game. They tried ArcheAge because it launched at an opportune time, but hated the PKing and left. This will be no different. Same goes for the WoW, GW2, LOTRO and many other PVE game communities. They will probably come and try this game and then leave within a few weeks.

The EQ community is begging for a new game that they can call home. There has never been a more opportune time to yank millions of PVE players from old and outdated MMO's. So much opportunity there.

As a business man, you understand that it costs far more money to develop an MMO with so much strictly PVE content that it can keep players satisfied for the length of time needed to profit, right?

PVE MMORPGs have two weaknesses: 1. The End Game is a Grind Festival because "Better Gear" is about all they have to offer to keep players interested. 2. Constantly needing to develop new and flashy PVE is very expensive.

The newest trend has been more emphasis on PVP to cut costs of developing a workable product. Also because more and more smaller Developers are the ones willing to take the risks involved in MMORPG productions. The Big Boys just don't have the Machismo to put up the funds needed for a AAA PVE MMORPG. Partly because they MAY get lots of players from older titles(WoW, ESO, etc...) but they may NOT get and keep them long enough. Partly because it is a TREMENDOUS investment now to build a AAA MMORPG.

AoC is taking a bit of a risk in trying to offer both Great PVE and Great PVP. That is going to be a tough nut. They are being pretty smart by mitigating some of the PVE cost by making the PVP so pervasive.

ArchivedUser

As a business man it's hard for me to grasp the concept of creating a business that's not in it to win it. You don't create a business unless you intend to make money. Passion is one thing, survival is another. This is a tough market.

@Stabby
I understand you're a businessman, and that that's your background and how you see the world. But I also understand that your view isn't the only one, and what you consider being choices that might appear, from your perspective, to be potentially unsuccessful, others of us see as potentially being wildly successful mainly because they break so far away from the current understanding of "normal mmos."

ArchivedUser

Stabby said:

Isende said:

Stabby said:

Well he's right in the sense that there are some similarities in design concepts. Which to me is baffeling. They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. EQ players won't play a PvP game. They tried ArcheAge because it launched at an opportune time, but hated the PKing and left. This will be no different. Same goes for the WoW, GW2, LOTRO and many other PVE game communities. They will probably come and try this game and then leave within a few weeks.

The EQ community is begging for a new game that they can call home. There has never been a more opportune time to yank millions of PVE players from old and outdated MMO's. So much opportunity there.

You're still thinking their goal "should" be to attract the EQ crowd, and/or to make money. Their streams talk consistently about this being a "Passion Project" and a labor of love to create the game they wish to see and play, not something that is a next-gen of a previous game.

As a business man it's hard for me to grasp the concept of creating a business that's not in it to win it. You don't create a business unless you intend to make money. Passion is one thing, survival is another. This is a tough market.

Hhhmm what about all those non-profit organisations ?

ArchivedUser

@Bringslite and @Isende

You guys both hit the nail on the head.

It's all about personal experience I guess. There are some statistics and economic tells that form the basis of my opinion. It's not just my interest in one aspect or another. Players from the most successful games ever made have been begging their gaming companies for a sequel to the game(s) they love. Those pleas always fall on deaf ears. Then along comes an amazing team of devs and creates AoC. It has sooo much potential to secure the market share of this genre. It is a one stop shop for what most MMO gamers are looking for in their existing "home" games. I'm very concerned that they are not focusing enough on the PvE aspect that would draw in those potential customers. I honestly feel it's going to have a little for everyone but not enough to keep anyone. So, short term money versus the long game. Steven said he wanted to franchise. The only way that will ever happen if if he launches this game with 10000 hours of uninterrupted PvE gameplay. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BewKY_BpVXg

ArchivedUser

Stabby said:

They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. 

I feel they may be trying to attract an "Ashes of Creation" crowd. With that said, they're doing a pretty darn good job at it.

ArchivedUser

T-Elf said:

Yeah on PvP is where LockSixTime and I parted ways.  Miss that guy.

Haha. Yeah. Lock basically banned me while I was trying to understand why in the world I would want to craft to support his PvP combat endeavors.
  

ArchivedUser

Think there will be plenty of open world PVP in this game.
Corruption only comes out when you kill a player that doesnt flag.

There are open world bosses/ dungeons were you auto flag kinda open world battlegrounds. caravans, city sieges (not set on a timer i think people can declare anytime they feel like it). Think you can attack Freeholds when War is declared and won vs a city and it delevels.

On the PVE end there seems to be alot of content aswell.
Dungeons and not just 1 or 2 i think last life stream they said alot, raids, crafting, gathering, farming, breeding, enchanting, help leveling nodes by quest, politics, trading, sailing. Not 100% sure but i think you can also explore the seafloor caves ect.

Last steam they dropped something nice for crafthers if your the first to discover how to make a item you can let people use it for a % of the gold they make then overtime it gets released to every 1 like a RL pattent.

And i think there thinking about adding new content for both pve and pvp every few weeks month and also do a huge update in form for expantions.

People are just looking for a good game to sink there teeth in just take a look at Black Desert you die now and again but its a crafthers wet dream. they just lifeskill all day making items to sell.

Now i think the crafthing system in ashes will rival or be better then Blackdesert and when people here you can open your own store im geussing because there was talk about owning your own inn so im geussing you can open your own amour/weapon shop on your freehold alot of Pve's will probarly try it and stay.

So i feel there is giong to be enough PVE ( and if its fun enough ) most PVEers will just shrug it off that they might get PKed now and again and lose a bit of XP and stay.

ArchivedUser

well, I'd say corruption mechanics are fine the way they are. I've gone around duelling basically everyone, although I will go away if they don't fight back. I'll mostly end up killed though.
I'd also request adding a duel mechanic.  you can ask the other player for a casual duel, where you can fight till someone reaches 1HP, but cannot die. you come out in the previous state(if you were a non-combatant, you remain so).

ArchivedUser

I hope it's not too much like EverQuest Next, because if I remember right, one of the reasons they cancelled that game is because they felt like it was boring.

ArchivedUser

Nice idea for the duelling @Irobot.

ArchivedUser

It's more identifiable as a Lineage successor, but I'm sure if some of the team worked on EQN that they brought good ideas forward.

EQN had a lot of great concepts that were never fully realized. But that's also true with Lineage as well. It had a lot of great design tenets that were never fully realized due to technical limitations 20 years ago. Anyone who has played Lineage can see some of the great core design principles carried forward and expanded upon in the information and interviews we've seen so far.

ArchivedUser

Stabby said:

T-Elf said:

I think the way Intrepid is trying to allay PvEer's fears is by having very harsh corruption penalties.  I, personally, am hoping that they find a way to make corruption harsh enough that there will be very little ganking of non-combat players.

Harsh enough to ruin the fun for PvP players? The scale has to tip one way or another. 

If there are enough reasons for people to pvp then it wouldn't ruin the fun for PvP players. 

What the corruption system does is ruin the fun for PK players. 

ArchivedUser

i'm not a huge fan of mindless pkers either. pking for an actual reason i'm okay with. actual reason not being "hey there is another player." i agree with games that have pk flagging so that people that do enjoy that can do so, and i can even get along with someone pking a non-pker every once in a while. what makes me not a fan of pkers is the vast majority of them out there that in my experience will attack and attempt to kill anyone they come across just because they happened to be there. i like the corruption aspect of this game to deter this and think it should get worse as the pker as they continue the act, ending with a permadeath flag that cannot be removed so that if they continue they will lose everything when they next die. i'd go so far as to say i prefer a RNG percentage that grows with each offense to determine the permadeath flag for every pk of a non-pk flagged player. that way there is always the chance that being an asshat just once could cost you everything.

side note, i do hold a grudge. i've been known to keep a list of names of people that pk me and months or years later on a raid tossing them a smite instead of a heal when they needed it most.

ArchivedUser

Welphgryn said:

Stabby said:

They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. 

I feel they may be trying to attract an "Ashes of Creation" crowd. With that said, they're doing a pretty darn good job at it.

Welphgryn 

            Well said! 
Oh, and I am an original EQ player of 3 yrs. 

ArchivedUser

Welphgryn said:

Stabby said:

They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. 

I feel they may be trying to attract an "Ashes of Creation" crowd. With that said, they're doing a pretty darn good job at it.

                Well said Welphgryn
                Oh and I am an original EQ player of 3yrs.
  

ArchivedUser

Isende said:

Stabby said:

Well he's right in the sense that there are some similarities in design concepts. Which to me is baffeling. They're going out of their way to create a great game similar to EQ but they're doing nothing to attract the EQ crowd. EQ players won't play a PvP game. They tried ArcheAge because it launched at an opportune time, but hated the PKing and left. This will be no different. Same goes for the WoW, GW2, LOTRO and many other PVE game communities. They will probably come and try this game and then leave within a few weeks.

The EQ community is begging for a new game that they can call home. There has never been a more opportune time to yank millions of PVE players from old and outdated MMO's. So much opportunity there.

You're still thinking their goal "should" be to attract the EQ crowd, and/or to make money. Their streams talk consistently about this being a "Passion Project" and a labor of love to create the game they wish to see and play, not something that is a next-gen of a previous game.

plently of eq players are here. what on earth makes you guys think otherwise


ive played it on and off since i was 9 yrs old