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The Class system in Ashes Doesn't Make Sense?!

There is this question that has been bugging me lately. I looked at every source of information available in the spreadsheets, and some, yet couldn't find an answer. The question is "Can you have your main class as a subclass?" For example, can i main a Tank and have a subclass of Tank? It's been bugging me for one reason, and that's because having your main class as a subclass doesn't make any sense. Why? Ok let me explain.

I did the research and the prevailing way the subclass system will work in equilibrium with the main class is augmentation. You see, the subclass the player picks will change how their main class skills work. For example, take the infamous charge skill all Fighters have in every fantasy MMORPG. Say this charge skill allows the Fighter to get in-contact with the targeted enemy in 1s from a 20 meter distance. Supposedly, this fighter picks a mage subclass. Now, instead of spending one second either jumping to the enemy or dashing to them, the Fighter instantly teleports to the front of the enemy, subsequently removing the one second casting time. This is where it gets a bit confusing. What will happen, or what change will occur to the Fighter's main skills if the Fighter picks a subclass of Fighter? Can anything actually happen? because maining a fighter means you already have fighter skills, so a subclass fighter can add nothing to your skills. In other words, you already have charge, so, whAT? :dizzy:

Share your thoughts, i am burning to hear them :tongue:

Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Yes. You can be a Tank/Tank.
    You basically double down on your role.

    If you augment Charge with Charge, you charge faster.
    2x Charge is faster than 1x Charge.
    But, you may be able to augment Charge with Shield Bash.

    Keep in mind that the hotbar only holds 10 abilities.
  • A fighter/fighter could get an even scarier charge? Perhaps a charge that ends with a furious roar that makes all surrounding mobs take more damage? Or one that makes him leap and spin in a deadly arc causing massive aoe damage?

    The secondary class just kinda gives more flavour (aside from different effects) to the primary class.

  • So it's been explained that your subclass augments the abilities of your primary. So if you were to pick a Rogue primary with a Mage secondary, you may get a teleport with your backstab.

    In your example, I think it's safe to say the same principle applies. You will get Fighter skills that are augmented by Fighter Skills. Maybe this is how you duel-wield 2 handed weapons. Maybe you get a charge that not has a finishing move that's a blade furry.

    Honestly, we don't know enough about individual skills to do more than speculate at this point, but it's safe to say that we can expect a Fighter/Fighter to be an augmented fighting class. 
  • Dygz said:
    Yes. You can be a Tank/Tank.
    You basically double down on your role.

    If you augment Charge with Charge, you charge faster.
    2x Charge is faster than 1x Charge.
    But, you may be able to augment Charge with Shield Bash.

    Keep in mind that the hotbar only holds 10 abilities.
    So, passive stats, or even buffs would double in number?  
  • I don't think anyone has the specifics @SethGure. He was just providing an example. 
  • 1: You apply the augments. They don't automatically double.
    2: Choosing to double up on an ability doesn't necessarily mean the ability becomes twice as powerful. More powerful, probably not twice as powerful.

    Just as the secondary Cleric heal augments are self-only; not group heals.
  • well you said it, look at the fighter, take that charge, you take fighter/fighter,your charge now knocks them down or maybe stuns them instead of just a charge. your charge just does more, maybe it can it a group instead of a single target. lets say a cleric/cleric instead of healing just one person you now heal an area.
  • Simple answer is yes. Tank/tank = amazing tank. Cleric/cleric = amazing healer. Dont freak out over details bcuz thats their job. Just know its a thing.
  • ^ everyone's already clarified it for you 
    Truth is though we'll know more when we get old more. In the upcoming months we'll get a better understanding of how things work :)
    I'm very excited for augmentation rather than receiving a new skill set. Much more exciting ^^
  • going Bard/Bard gives you a kickass DJ set to blast your chants with :hushed:
  • i think the games not out yet and we dont have the information you dying for.
  • think what we know so far is exciting as races will also play a part in maxing out builds ,but so many different options so many people will be different a that to me is great    
  • *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
  • Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
  • Kratz said:
    Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
    The UI footage hotbar shown to us thus far is not something that will remain. Steven said the UI is just a placeholder, so expect it to change. It will hold more or less when the game comes out, but i don't think we know how many exactly. Just a placeholder for now.
  • We dont know what the augments will be yet, but yes you can double on an archetype and they are augmented still.
  • SethGure said:
    Kratz said:
    Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
    The UI footage hotbar shown to us thus far is not something that will remain. Steven said the UI is just a placeholder, so expect it to change. It will hold more or less when the game comes out, but i don't think we know how many exactly. Just a placeholder for now.
    Fair point but I hope It'll be 10 or less.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Kratz said:
    SethGure said:
    Kratz said:
    Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
    The UI footage hotbar shown to us thus far is not something that will remain. Steven said the UI is just a placeholder, so expect it to change. It will hold more or less when the game comes out, but i don't think we know how many exactly. Just a placeholder for now.
    Fair point but I hope It'll be 10 or less.
    10 will just limit what you can do, and less than that will be a death sentence for a Cleric, or a rogue. I know guardians i.e Tanks won't have any problem will ten or even less than that since they're mainly damage sponges, but for most it's bad. I hope a minimum of twenty. Why do you hope for 10 or less? It will put most classes at a huge disadvantage, and it will limit people's options. Also, even if it's less than 10, there will be those who will try to install third party macros to try'n get it higher.
  • Kratz said:
    SethGure said:
    Kratz said:
    Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
    The UI footage hotbar shown to us thus far is not something that will remain. Steven said the UI is just a placeholder, so expect it to change. It will hold more or less when the game comes out, but i don't think we know how many exactly. Just a placeholder for now.
    Fair point but I hope It'll be 10 or less.
    10 will just limit what you can do, and less than that will be a death sentence for a Cleric, or a rogue. I know guardians i.e Tanks won't have any problem with ten or even less than that since they're mainly damage sponges, but for most, it's bad. I hope a minimum of twenty. Why do you hope for 10 or less?
  • I've always preferred combat in games where the hotbars are smaller, like GW2 and that game had healers and rogues who managed admirably. It's all to do with design but I prefer the minimal approach. I really enjoyed MMOs like LOTRO and SWTOR etc but hotbars ended up being cluster chaos. It's a preference at the end of the day and I'm sure there'll be plenty who'll disagree, but alas, time will tell. :)  

  • Here's a preview from Summoner+Summoner  link 
  • Kratz said:
    SethGure said:
    Kratz said:
    Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
    The UI footage hotbar shown to us thus far is not something that will remain. Steven said the UI is just a placeholder, so expect it to change. It will hold more or less when the game comes out, but i don't think we know how many exactly. Just a placeholder for now.
    Fair point but I hope It'll be 10 or less.
    10 will just limit what you can do, and less than that will be a death sentence for a Cleric, or a rogue. I know guardians i.e Tanks won't have any problem will ten or even less than that since they're mainly damage sponges, but for most it's bad. I hope a minimum of twenty. Why do you hope for 10 or less? For most classes, this will put you at a disadvantage, and it will limit people's options. Also, if it's less than 10, there will be those who will try to instal third party macros to try'n get it to be higher. As you know, opening the inventory is just not ideal.
  • Kratz said:
    SethGure said:
    Kratz said:
    Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
    The UI footage hotbar shown to us thus far is not something that will remain. Steven said the UI is just a placeholder, so expect it to change. It will hold more or less when the game comes out, but i don't think we know how many exactly. Just a placeholder for now.
    Fair point but I hope It'll be 10 or less.
    10 will just limit what you can do in the game, and it will be a death sentence for those who play Clerics, Rogues, and Fighters. As you know, clerics depend on a vast array of skills as well as remedies and potions. All of those things need to be milli seconds away, or the hole raid wipes, etc... As for Rogues, at level 50 in games such as WoW, you already have over 20 hotbars filled. Less than 10 is just not ideal. I can see how it benefits Tanks since they're mainly there to absorb damage, and AoE CC, which four skills are sufficient. However, for most, it's just disadvantageous. What's your reasoning for hoping it will be less than 10? 
  • Kratz said:
    SethGure said:
    Kratz said:
    Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
    The UI footage hotbar shown to us thus far is not something that will remain. Steven said the UI is just a placeholder, so expect it to change. It will hold more or less when the game comes out, but i don't think we know how many exactly. Just a placeholder for now.
    Fair point but I hope It'll be 10 or less.
    10 will just limit what you can do, and less than that will be a death sentence for a Cleric, or a rogue. I know guardians i.e Tanks won't have any problem will ten or even less than that since they're mainly damage sponges, but for most it's bad. I hope a minimum of twenty. Why do you hope for 10 or less? For most classes, this will put you at a disadvantage, and it will limit people's options. Also, if it's less than 10, there will be those who will try to instal third party macros to try'n get it to be higher. As you know, opening the inventory is just not ideal.
  • Kratz said:
    SethGure said:
    Kratz said:
    Isende said:
    *sniffs the air* What's this I smell? More theorycrafting? Ah, smells like notebooks and bulbs burning brightly :-)

    In short, I love it lol. I will, however, be most happy when we have more information to do more theorycrafting with!
    Never a truer word spoken. For now I'm just happy that the hotbar holds only 10 abilities.
    The UI footage hotbar shown to us thus far is not something that will remain. Steven said the UI is just a placeholder, so expect it to change. It will hold more or less when the game comes out, but i don't think we know how many exactly. Just a placeholder for now.
    Fair point but I hope It'll be 10 or less.
    10 will just limit what you can do in the game, and it will be a death sentence for those who play Clerics, Rogues, and Fighters. As you know, clerics depend on a vast array of skills as well as remedies and potions. All of those things need to be milli seconds away, or the hole raid wipes, etc... As for Rogues, at level 50 in games such as WoW, you already have over 20 hotbars filled. Less than 10 is just not ideal. I can see how it benefits Tanks since they're mainly there to absorb damage, and AoE CC, which four skills are sufficient. However, for most, it's just disadvantageous. What's your reasoning for hoping it will be less than 10? 
  • SethGure said:
     Why do you hope for 10 or less?
    Honestly, in my opinion, having fewer buttons on your hotbar makes you play smarter. You work to mold your spells/abilities to be their utmost in power, but similarly, you also have to really know your bar in order to succeed, given that you have fewer choices to make.

    I found that with ESO, as well as GW2, and I grew to love it. For me, it's more of a challenge to work with this, rather than less ... and I do love me a good challenge!
  • Isende said:
    SethGure said:
     Why do you hope for 10 or less?
    Honestly, in my opinion, having fewer buttons on your hotbar makes you play smarter. You work to mold your spells/abilities to be their utmost in power, but similarly, you also have to really know your bar in order to succeed, given that you have fewer choices to make.

    I found that with ESO, as well as GW2, and I grew to love it. For me, it's more of a challenge to work with this, rather than less ... and I do love me a good challenge!
    I didn't like the GW2 system because it wasn't customizable. Your self heal was always bound to 3, your big class skill was always 5. But other then that, the system does make you play, organize and build your character better.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    The system makes perfect sense, has been to a point done before, has been explained enough in vids and livestream. It's not that it doesn't make sense, you just don't understand it.
  • But what if they add a third sub class could we be Tank/Tank/Tank and would my charge make me turn into a model of superman ? Sorry had to troll this one...
  • Karthos said:
    Isende said:
    SethGure said:
     Why do you hope for 10 or less?
    Honestly, in my opinion, having fewer buttons on your hotbar makes you play smarter. You work to mold your spells/abilities to be their utmost in power, but similarly, you also have to really know your bar in order to succeed, given that you have fewer choices to make.

    I found that with ESO, as well as GW2, and I grew to love it. For me, it's more of a challenge to work with this, rather than less ... and I do love me a good challenge!
    I didn't like the GW2 system because it wasn't customizable. Your self heal was always bound to 3, your big class skill was always 5. But other then that, the system does make you play, organize and build your character better.
    Good point mate, but Intrepid have already confirmed their intention for the UI to be fully customizable therefore I suspect key mapping the hotbar will be a natural part of that. I loved LOTRO, SWTOR, AoC etc but man, I hope the days of the 30+skills all over your screen are gone lol. We don't need it, especially in a PvP orientated game. Just my humble opinion ofc ;) 
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