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Karma/Fame system

One of my favorite systems from old MMO's that I have not seen done since was the karma/rep system from Ultima Online.  As you do nefarious deeds you could drop down the karma scale, or conversely as you defend the weak and slay evildoers you could rise in the karma scale. Same thing with doing great things raising your reputation, such as slaying a Dragon.  Both of these "sliders" kind of earn you equippable titles that can give people at a glance what type of personality and fame your avatar has.  I thought it added a whole new level of depth to character, especially for role playing.

Thoughts on something like this being viable for Ashes?

Heres a link to what I'm talking about for those who don't know:
http://uo2.stratics.com/reputation/fame-and-karma-reputation-titles/
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Comments

  • I think maybe they may have something a little like that where religion is concerned.  They give you a choice to please a God or not.  Doing so is supposed to be beneficial.   This is part of the story I believe, you can participate if you want.

    I don't think I would want a complete karma/fame system because then it leads to tedious grinding for many.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    There are definitely ways they could implement the system without it being tedious. Have it be another incentive to the open world pvp and build off of combatant/non-combatant/and corrupted player kills. Maybe bonuses if you kill a player actively trying to PK an innocent, or assist someone in the murderous deed, for example.  Since it would be cosmetic it's not like its required to do anyway, it would just be another avenue for people to find immersion in their character.
  • This could be reflected in the skinning of the gear that drops for you. 

    High Karma = Shiny unicorns and rainbows

    Low Karma = Evil awesomeness
  • lexmax said:
    This could be reflected in the skinning of the gear that drops for you. 

    High Karma = Shiny unicorns and rainbows

    Low Karma = Evil awesomeness
    Interesting take on it! I'd be down.
  • This system could even extend to guilds having good/evil options for mount barding or guild emblems.  Maybe even physical features that could manifest on characters themselves?
  • Lady Autumn Willow has a nice ring to it. 

    Let there be karma/virtue! 
  • I want my name to strike fear into mortals so when they see the undead legions march on their nodes they will know who to beg for mercy to or curse my name in hatred. 
  • Why not .... But the "I dont know" button is missing  :#:#
  • I would love for our like/lols and agrees to affect the fame some how ^^
  • Fair point Stereo, that's my bad.  

    I encourage everyone to look into it and decide if it is a good thing or a bad thing.  The I don't know votes don't really give the devs a good pulse of the community on the topic.
  • Doesn't this concept cross over into their corruption system a bit?
    At least, if something like this was tied into the game, it would have to compliment the corruption system.  
  • It does but its does not change the point thatI want to be a bane to all life ^^
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Doesn't this concept cross over into their corruption system a bit?
    At least, if something like this was tied into the game, it would have to compliment the corruption system.  
    Absolutely!  Just like in UO, PKing would greatly diminish your karma.  Slaying evil creatures like Daemons would increase reputation and karma.  Slaying PKers would increase karma as well.  The systems would complement each other.  However, it wouldn't be exclusive to the corruption system.  Doing great things and slaying evil creatures in PvE would also have an effect.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Severok said:
    Fair point Stereo, that's my bad.  

    I encourage everyone to look into it and decide if it is a good thing or a bad thing.  The I don't know votes don't really give the devs a good pulse of the community on the topic.

    Yes it's true ^^
  • Severok said:
    Doesn't this concept cross over into their corruption system a bit?
    At least, if something like this was tied into the game, it would have to compliment the corruption system.  
    Absolutely!  Just like in UO, PKing would greatly diminish your karma.  Slaying evil creatures like Daemons would increase reputation and karma.  Slaying PKers would increase karma as well.  The systems would complement each other.  However, it wouldn't be exclusive to the corruption system.  Doing great things and slaying evil creatures in PvE would also have an effect.
    The same could be said of the good guys as well. If I kill a unicorn will I get bad karma which then increases my evil meter?
  • Doesn't this concept cross over into their corruption system a bit?
    At least, if something like this was tied into the game, it would have to compliment the corruption system.  
    Agree, I think this should compliment both the corruption system for PvP and the questing system for PvE. The choices we make on or off the battlefield should shape our characters in some way. Ideas like @Severok and @AutumnWillow for altering physical attributes, modifying titles, or skinning gear and weapons toward good or evil.

    As a player of both light and dark characters, I'd consider undertaking high risk challenges to gain enough negative/positive karma to obtain these kind of augments.

    • In PvP, you'd have to run up a high amount of corruption and avoid getting captured for X amount of time to lower your karma. To increase your karma you'd have to collect a crap ton of bounties in X amount of time.

    • In PvE you'd have to make choices in quests/tasks that really increase their difficulty. Say on a timed task to escort a wagon of supplies, you stop the wagon to save a poor wittle wamb from being crushed by the wheels. Or you have a choice of negotiating passage with a bunch of burly guards or just killing them.
    Either way think it should be hard to increase or decrease your karma. Difficult but not too grindy! Yeah, game design is easy in the forums, I know ;)
  • I like the way you think, @lexmax.
  • Yes to both @nagash and @lexmax.  
    Anything that increases immersion in gameplay is a good thing.  
  • Severok said:
      Anything that increases immersion in gameplay is a good thing.  
    Totally agree.
  • 100% yes!

    To my understanding this is similar to the bounty system AoC already will be implementing or there PvP system. However, @Severok did you mean that Karma and Fate would be the PvE counterpoint to this?
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Nah Hinbane.  Basically pvp and pve deeds could drive your karma up or down, depending on whether or not your actions were good or evil, or what you kill for the same reasons.  For example, killing a demon would grant karma, killing a benevolent spirit would reduce karma.  

    Also, success in large events or slaying monsters would yield a net gain in fame, and fame would be lost in increments upon death. So for example slaying wolves might earn you fame until a certain point, then you have to move on to bigger and badder baddies to continue earning fame, but you lose fame upon death.

    In effect the karma/fame system would be complementary to all systems currently in place.
  • @Severok
    Ah gotcha!

    It seems like an idea that would work really intuitively with the whole open world, sandbox model that AoC is implementing.

    Players are already incentivized to become self-made men and women. Why not dangle a nice title or two in front of everyone and make it that much more exciting? 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    @Severok
    You need an in between option because the very concept I love however, I have seen games do this very badly. For instance off the top of my head Archeage's karma system had for me, too many downsides for turning pirate (even though I ended up being a pirate). The idea that I was locked in as soon as I hit a certain threshold was stupid imo. on the other side of that coin there has been games doing it right like Ultima online. 

    Also I'm pretty sure they confirmed there's no 'karma' system but instead your literal actions bare the weight and repercussions from them, rather than the game say 'you're a bandit now'. I know people are talking about religion and other systems but as far as i'm aware, they're their own systems that'll incentivise players to clash or work together, whilst also working on their own religion progression  

    If it was a system that strictly compliments the players experience through cosmetics and other parts of the game, whether you're good or bad then that's another story. An example (though not MMORPG) would be Infamous or Fable.
  • @Severok

    Also I'm pretty sure they confirmed there's no 'karma' system 
    There is a Karma system for PvP the form of corruption. This was confirmed by Steven in an interview with Aggelos on May 3. 

    I'm just editing the transcription from that video for another purpose, so this was fresh in my mind :smile:
  • @lexmax
    As far as I'm aware that's its own system to stop pkers/grievers
  • @lexmax
    As far as I'm aware that's its own system to stop pkers/grievers
    It serves that purpose, yes. I very much hope they will build on that in the future!
  • @lexmax
    The way I see it Bounty Hunters will be Obsolete Because they have made Corruption such a Deterrent imo.
  • @lexmax
    The way I see it Bounty Hunters will be Obsolete Because they have made Corruption such a Deterrent imo.
    Bounty hunters are part of the corruption mechanic: You gain corruption, BHs hunt you down. This is a yin and yang karma mechanic.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    @lexmax
    The way I see it Bounty Hunters will be Obsolete Because they have made Corruption such a Deterrent imo.
    If you think for one second that ANYTHING will deter people from creating PK guilds and PKing in a sandbox MMO, you've never played a sandbox MMO.
  • @lexmax
    So by that logic no corruption means no BHs

    @Severok
    and if you know what they're making corruption do, you'll know that all the PK guilds will get rekt
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