Will there be PVP and PVE servers?

ArchivedUser

Hi all.
I did a few searches here but for some reason I got literally no results for "PVP" which I didnt understand, so Im making a new post. I cant remember how PVP will work in Ashes, is there any type of forced PVP? Or will there be separate PVP and PVE servers? Maybe a PVP flagging system? Thanks for any info on this.

ArchivedUser

there flagging system is the corruption , i guess some severs will be less pvp than other put can't see just a Pve server as pvp is a main thing in game 

ArchivedUser

EDIT: I Stand corrected. It has been confirmed.

No PVE servers.    

ArchivedUser

No PVE only servers.

Open World PVP. Possible anywhere and any time. <---They have said that there "may" be "some" instanced content. It is possible that PVP might not be a thing in some of that...

A flagging system with what looks like pretty hefty penalties for killing players flagged as "Noncombatant" but we don't have numbers details yet.

A bounty hunter system that will allow the hunters to see general location of random player killers.

ArchivedUser

^^^ They dev's have said that there won't be separate PvP and PvE servers.

ArchivedUser

ArchivedUser

I didn't hear of pve or pvp servers so far, but i hope that you have balanced pvp and pve on every server, so you can do what you prefer more.

ArchivedUser

Thank you everybody for all for the information.

ArchivedUser

OneWingedAngel said:

there flagging system is the corruption , i guess some severs will be less pvp than other put can't see just a Pve server as pvp is a main thing in game 

I don't believe pvp is the main thing in the game, I believe if that's what you want it to be then it will, but remember the game is what you want it to be!

ArchivedUser

Pvp is the dynamic by how nodes will be contested. Pvp is how certain guild mechanics will be determined. Pvp is how militaristic nodes will gain their leader. Pvp is how control of main castles will be determined. Guilds will be able to declare war on other guilds. They have said that the mechanics for guild wars will make it so they are NOT long drawn out affairs, but will have increasing penalties. Pvp will NOT be stealth, gank, cc, gank, dead, affairs, but will be more drawn out affairs lasting a couple to several minutes. Pkers will have substantial penalties including exp and full loot loss on death while corrupted. On the reverse, if you are the target of a Pker, attacking back will gain you corruption also. Corruption is gained on death of the person being attacked. So, by the information right now, if you are a PVE person attacked by someone who is a Pker, don't attack back and let them kill you unless you want to gain corruption (hope this is changed). People who don't attack back will not be fully lootable, but can lose some of their stuff. PKers when killed will be fully lootable. Attacking people who are much lower level than you will gain increased corruption. All of this is subject to change, and no one knows how the final penalties for corruption will work out. But expect assholish behavior to be heavily penalized if it impacts others gameplay/progression.

ArchivedUser

CWB said:

Hi all.
I did a few searches here but for some reason I got literally no results for "PVP" which I didnt understand, so Im making a new post. I cant remember how PVP will work in Ashes, is there any type of forced PVP? Or will there be separate PVP and PVE servers? Maybe a PVP flagging system? Thanks for any info on this.

The game is designed as PvX, there won't be official PvE servers or RP servers.

ArchivedUser

@UnkownSystemError

"On the reverse, if you are the target of a Pker, attacking back will gain you corruption also. Corruption is gained on death of the person being attacked. So, by the information right now, if you are a PVE person attacked by someone who is a Pker, don't attack back and let them kill you unless you want to gain corruption (hope this is changed)."

You've gotten this part a bit wrong. ANYONE that attacks you has to be at least flagged "combatant" by default. There is no penalty for you to fight back and kill them if they attack you first. Attacking someone flags you to "combatant" unless the target is already corrupt. There is no penalty for attacking and killing anyone flagged as "combatant".

ArchivedUser

@UnknownSystemError.   In Ashes, it's important to make the distinction between PvP conflict and PvP combat.
Where PvP combat is specifically player characters killing other player characters.

Steven specifically stated that the pillar is Meaningful Conflict; not Meaningful PvP (combat).
And Steven specifically stated that Ashes is not a "PvP-centric game".

What drives change in the world is PvP conflict: during sieges, the objectives will be destroying infrastructure and killing key NPCs. Winning a siege will not be dependent upon how many player characters are killed by other player characters.

ArchivedUser

I can't wait to kill some people. PvP anywhere is a great idea.

ArchivedUser

I would be fairly surprised if Intrepid or Steven himself played up the PVP aspects to a high degree or down for that matter. They want to please/lure the most possible from both camps that they can.

ArchivedUser

What type of flagging system will be used for PvP in Ashes? Something completely open like Free-For-All, or a system limited to certain areas (like caravans and sieges), or maybe an incentivized factional opt-in system tied to established nodes, similar to Star Wars Galaxies’ TEF system?

We are still developing our flagging system, but I can give you an overview of how it stands now. It is important to keep in mind, that players are not forced into PvP. If you want to influence the world around you through non-pvp methods, it is an equally viable option.

There are three states that a player can find themselves in: Non-Combatant (Green), Combatant (Purple), and Corrupt (Red). Everyone is a Non-Combatant by default. If a Non-Combatant attacks a Combatant or another non-combatant, then they become a Combatant for a period of time. Similarly, if a Non-Combatant enters a PVP zone (which includes things like Castles, City Sieges and Caravans) they are automatically flagged a Combatant while in the zone, and for a period of time after leaving that zone.

Players can kill Combatants without repercussions, and are encouraged to do so, since dying while a Combatant means you suffer reduced death penalties. Where this changes is when a Combatant kills a Non-Combatant. In this case, the Combatant is Corrupt, and acquires a Corruption Score (which is accrued based on a number of different parameters, including the level differential of their freshly slain victim). This Corruption Score can be worked off with effort through a few mechanics, but the primary means of getting rid of it is through death.

While a player is marked as Corrupt, they may be attacked by both Combatants and Non-Combatants. If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant. We also have some other ideas that we haven’t formalized yet that will allow players to participate in what we feel could be a fun cat-and-mouse part of the game. As an example, the location of these corrupt players will be displayed on the map, if you have the Bounty Hunter title, which can be obtained through a quest available to a citizen from a Military zoned, Stage 4 (Town) Node. These are systems that we’re still working on, but Corruption is something we want to provide explicit gameplay opportunities for.

In any case, all this comes to a head via death penalties. A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). A Combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the Non-Combatant rate. A character who has a Corruption Score on the other hand, suffers penalties at three times the rate of a Non-Combatant, and has a chance to drop *any* carried/equiped items based on their current Corruption Score.

The idea here is to disincentivizes those who wish to gank or grief others, while rewarding those who engage in consensual PVP. We don’t want Ashes to be a murder box!

Again, this is the briefest of overviews, and I’m sure this explanation raises as many questions as it answers. It really demands a more thorough explanation, which we’ll get into in a developer blog. Also, keep in mind that Ashes is continually a work in progress – though I’ve given a lot of specifics here, what survives play-testing is anyone’s guess!

ArchivedUser

  Nephalem said:

I can't wait to kill some people.

There's only a few places where you can say stuff like that publicly. Thanks heavens this is one of them, eh? ^^

ArchivedUser

Detox_YT said:

OneWingedAngel said:

there flagging system is the corruption , i guess some severs will be less pvp than other put can't see just a Pve server as pvp is a main thing in game 

I don't believe pvp is the main thing in the game, I believe if that's what you want it to be then it will, but remember the game is what you want it to be!

While PvP isn't the "main thing" in the game, it is the lever which will introduce change into the world. It is a hefty portion of the game. The devs have nixed the idea of non-combatants being able to remain unattackable; that is less-than-delightful for some of us, but some of us are willing to see how the system actually shakes down.

Others above have spelled out the combat and flagging system as it has been explained and as we currently understand it. I add this caveat because it's important to always remember that, at this time, we are pre-alpha. Things can change. I do, of course, hope that they keep in line with their vision and goals and I, for myself, am willing to commit to this game even if it doesn't do everything I'd like.

I guess that's the beginning of the "risk/reward" mindset they're engendering, eh? I am willing to accept the risk that some arsehat will decide it's fun to gank me a few times; I'll also happily contribute to the corruption they're collecting, depending on how long this goes on, thus I'm allowing them to accept the results of their own risky actions.

ArchivedUser

The fact that PvP and PvE will affect each other in such a direct way is one of the things that makes this upcomming MMORPG so unique and compelling to me. 

ArchivedUser

GaFl4Ever said:

The fact that PvP and PvE will affect each other in such a direct way is one of the things that makes this upcomming MMORPG so unique and compelling to me. 

As it is for many of us.  PvP without a good reason in my mind is no fun. 

ArchivedUser

In any case, all this comes to a head via death penalties. A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). 

That doesnt sound right? 

ArchivedUser

Ukparadox said:

In any case, all this comes to a head via death penalties. A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). 

That doesnt sound right? 

It is what they've stated.  The intent is to encourage people to flag as a combatant and participate in PvP.

If it's a meaningful fight with a purpose, rather than someone just randomly ganking me for the jollies of murdering another player, I'll consider flagging and having a go at it.  If they just want to murder me because I'm there, I won't flag and they can eat a heaping helping of corruption.

ArchivedUser

I'd still have a few questions for the devs as to how some specific scenarios would play out.

We've been told all dungeons aren't instanced, or there will be open world bosses.  Let's say I'm a rogue, and I see a raid in progress.  I'm feeling antisocial today, so I decide to go attack some healers, and stun/sap/whatever them.  Not enough damage to kill them, but maybe enough to make them miss enough heals that the tank dies, and the raid wipes.

Now, my question is, do I get corruption for that?  Technically I did't kill anyone, that dragon did.  If I do get corruption, is it just for the people I actually attacked in some way, or for everyone that died as a result of my meddling?

I ask this because that seems like a giant loophole in the system if I get no corruption.

ArchivedUser

Thanks everyone for the additional information. Im not into PVP much anymore, but when I was younger was heavy into it through first person shooters. I never really liked PVP in MMORPGs though, too many variables such as overpowered = armor, weapons, abilities, classes, etc, where as FPS PVP was just pure skill of aiming and handling yourself well in a firefight through smart use of your cover/surroundings.

As for Ashes as long as a PVE player especially those who are not into PVP can be attacked by another player, thats forced PVP basically. So I will have to pass on this very neat looking game if I want to be honest with myself on if I will like it or not. I dont need another game where Im out doing something or working on something or gathering mats etc etc as a primarily PVE based player, and still have to constantly look over my shoulder for gankers, been there done that. So unless I misread something, Ashes is just too PVP focused for me. Thanks again for the info.

ArchivedUser

You gain corruption for killing a non-combatant. You don't gain corruption for just attacking someone.

ArchivedUser

@CWB

Well that is sucky. The more non PVP happy players the game can get, the less likely there will be nasty gankers everywhere. @Dygz (I think) plans to try and get a "low PVP combat server" going by looking at the stats. He would probably like to have you there.

Give the system a little time to mature and grow through alpha and beta. YOu never know exactly how things will play out. There are a few possible loopholes in Intrepid's system(as they have described it so far) and they will need to address those.

So yeah, check back to see if Dygz gets his dream or to see if the unwanted PVP is really prevalent or almost non existent. You never know and the game seems to offer SO MUCH in so many other areas.

ArchivedUser

@CWB hey hey budy! I'm really not a PVP player, and my boyfriend even less than I (atleast not in MMORPG). However, we are very excited for this game because despite of the possibility of getting killed, the game itself is so promising. It rely on the players to create their own world, and from one server to another the atmosphere may be very different. 
I've been saying this again and again, and I'll say it even more in future... Some server will gather very active and competitive guilds. Some servers will be more relaxed. There is so many different ways such a concept can be played.

We have wrote and edited a video with the intention of soothing players like you, like me, who may be scared of the PVP aspect of the game. Maybe you will find it useful and it will reassure you.

Ashes of Creation explained for relaxed players

ArchivedUser

I'm guessing that Stevens answer when questioned about rp servers goes with pvp pve servers too...
He doesn't want to divide the community

ArchivedUser

I believe he said something along the lines of

One Server to rule them all, One Server to find them...

ArchivedUser

"Bringslite said:

@CWB

Well that is sucky. The more non PVP happy players the game can get, the less likely there will be nasty gankers everywhere. "

But why would anyone who isnt into PVP play a game that is focused on PVP? The flagging system doesnt protect you from PKers, only gives the PKer some corruption. That wont stop gankers from killing you while you are questing, talking to NPCs, etc etc. It would be silly for a PVE player to play this PVP based game.

ArchivedUser

Elloa said:

@CWB hey hey budy! I'm really not a PVP player, and my boyfriend even less than I (atleast not in MMORPG). However, we are very excited for this game because despite of the possibility of getting killed, the game itself is so promising. It rely on the players to create their own world, and from one server to another the atmosphere may be very different. 
I've been saying this again and again, and I'll say it even more in future... Some server will gather very active and competitive guilds. Some servers will be more relaxed. There is so many different ways such a concept can be played.

We have wrote and edited a video with the intention of soothing players like you, like me, who may be scared of the PVP aspect of the game. Maybe you will find it useful and it will reassure you.

Ashes of Creation explained for relaxed players

As long as the flagging system doesnt stop PKers from killing people and only gives them a bit of corruption, Ashes will more likely just be a gankfest unless the corruption penalty is very severe which I doubt it will be. Its simply not the type game for me, Im not scared of PVP either I just think its annoying as hell in MMORPGs. Get me in a first person shooter for some real PVP, and I can still hold my own(but not as good as my younger days). But thank you for your reply and the nice video.