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Will there be PVP and PVE servers?

245

Comments

  • For the most part I don't like attacking other player characters. The flagging system doesn't change that.

    I'm a casual PvPer. I like having the ability to engage in PvP combat sometimes - primarily in defense of towns/cities.
    My issue revolves around consent. In order to play on a server with OWPVP, I would need to play one server where the vast majority of the population agrees with my interpretation of consent. Which may be possible.

    What a lot of people fail to understand about Ashes is that the primary culprits who will be pushing people like us away from Ashes won't be PKers, rather it will be PvPers driven by the Meaningful Conflict pillar. 
    It will be common for us to be competing for resources and for actions which benefit our node/city to detrimentally affect other nodes/cities.
    Even trying to fulfill my PvE harvesting goals can negatively affect nearby regions in such a way that they feel obligated to stop me. Which is going to be problematic for me since I'm only in the mood for PvP combat for about 60 minutes though I play for 8 hours.

    I also think the focus on PvP combat will be too much for me to play, but we will begin to confirm that during alpha and beta.
    My prediction is that the community will be split in any case -such a stupid phrase- because the PvE adventurers and and the casual PvPers, those who typically play on PvE servers, won't play Ashes at all.

  • Dygz said:
    You gain corruption for killing a non-combatant. You don't gain corruption for just attacking someone.
    Are you sure...?
    I'm just curious because what's then to stop you dragging mobs in into someone you've almost killed and letting them finish them off...
    Or just stunning someone and doing the same?
    I had assumed that ANY damage to a non pvp flagged player would trigger corruption...I'm probably wrong again, but I'd love to see where to find this info /read up more on it, thanks
  • A little corruption  never hurt anyone  >:) 
  • In what games can you drag a mob into someone who didn't attack it? 
  • Seem to remember lotro was like that...
    And I'm sure there was another one where you just get to close to a mob and it aggros on you, but given that my brain and memory are completely bottled at the best of times I fail at details :/ 

  • @Megs
    You should be able to find the link on the 1st page, but here is the pertinent quote that the devs have also confirmed on the Livestreams:
    Players can kill Combatants without repercussions, and are encouraged to do so, since dying while a Combatant means you suffer reduced death penalties. Where this changes is when a Combatant kills a Non-Combatant. In this case, the Combatant is Corrupt, and acquires a Corruption Score (which is accrued based on a number of different parameters, including the level differential of their freshly slain victim). This Corruption Score can be worked off with effort through a few mechanics, but the primary means of getting rid of it is through death.
  • Dygz said:
    @Megs
    You should be able to find the link on the 1st page, but here is the pertinent quote that the devs have also confirmed on the Livestreams:
    Players can kill Combatants without repercussions, and are encouraged to do so, since dying while a Combatant means you suffer reduced death penalties. Where this changes is when a Combatant kills a Non-Combatant. In this case, the Combatant is Corrupt, and acquires a Corruption Score (which is accrued based on a number of different parameters, including the level differential of their freshly slain victim). This Corruption Score can be worked off with effort through a few mechanics, but the primary means of getting rid of it is through death.
    Poot. 
    That's @dygz for this. I can see sooo much griefing and abuse  if you don't get corruption for attacking someone... especially if you still gain armor damage from being hit....

    Euch, I'm probably just being too paranoid about it :)
    Thanks again :)
  • Hmmm....must be a credit for killing blow for loot then. Say you attack non-combatant, get then down to 10 percent, and they jump off a cliff and die. Do you still get the killing credit? Can you loot? Do you get full corruption cause they die while you were still flagged in combat with them? Or attack down to 10 percent, drop outta combat, drag mobs onto them, they die. Same questions. Sure it will be made more clear in the remaining time till testing. Looking forward to breaking their system in devious ways during testing.
  • Most of the armor damage will be from the death penalty.
  • As long as the flagging system doesnt stop PKers from killing people and only gives them a bit of corruption, Ashes will more likely just be a gankfest unless the corruption penalty is very severe which I doubt it will be. Its simply not the type game for me, Im not scared of PVP either I just think its annoying as hell in MMORPGs. Get me in a first person shooter for some real PVP, and I can still hold my own(but not as good as my younger days). But thank you for your reply and the nice video.
    Understandable.  I was having my doubts for many of the same reasons but I finally decided to take the plunge. Yes it can be annoying in MMORGP's but that is the nature of this game.   How we the community respond to it and our actions that will hold our future world together.  And for this I was intrigued enough to take that step and join.  

     Many of us were more agile and focused at one time in years gone past but heck the young whipper snappers of today need to be taught what only the aged and wise can teach them!   Look at @nagash he hasn't given up yet.  Those old bones keep rattling down the battle fields!  

    It would be nice if you joined us. We sure could use all the help we can get from people like you to help make peace with the land but we do understand.  Best of luck in finding the right world for you.   :)
  • Isn't the entire game PvX? With a corruption system if you pk someone?
  • Faint said:
    Isn't the entire game PvX? With a corruption system if you pk someone?
    Yes.  The dynamics of the world depends on both to survive and grow.
  • Other possible loopholes I'd like to see devs consider, is what exactly constitutes 'fighting back'?

    Do I have to actively target them and use some attack abilities?  What if I didn't actively attack them, but I have a damage aura?  Would that trigger it?  Can I damage them if I don't actively engage or switch my flag?  Can they time attacking me so they catch splash damage from an AE attack?

    I only ask because I know players, they will toe the definition of the ruleset while shattering the spirit of it if they can.
  • hravik said:
    Other possible loopholes I'd like to see devs consider, is what exactly constitutes 'fighting back'?

    Do I have to actively target them and use some attack abilities?  What if I didn't actively attack them, but I have a damage aura?  Would that trigger it?  Can I damage them if I don't actively engage or switch my flag?  Can they time attacking me so they catch splash damage from an AE attack?

    I only ask because I know players, they will toe the definition of the ruleset while shattering the spirit of it if they can.
    Great points! Pets being attacked/attacking players or other pets would also be a compilation.

    These are definitely things that need to be thoroughly tested during alpha and beta.
  • Hi there,  I am very excited about this game but was disappointed to hear that there will be no pve servers. I have been telling my friends and family about this game but if there is no pve servers it will surely turn them off as most of them and myself included dont enjoy open world pvp. I have played games where im gathering and get jumped by two or three people and it is not fun.Please take into consideration adding pve servers as a lot of people enjoy having it as an option and play style Thank you for your time.
  • @irish01 They have instituted penalties for ganking and griefing that will be worked on all through testing. There are no full loot mechanics to pvp. There won't ever be pve only servers, the game just would not function that way. Ashes in not a themepark mmo a la WOW or any of the others. Without drivers of change via player conflict a few of their main pillars of gameplay just don't work, meaning the game breaks. Once you realize that meaningful pvp is essential for the game to function, the theory behind it all falls into place. I am in your camp of people that hate OWPVP salt-n-gank type games where people just get to take your effort and destroy your experience at the cost of their own. Ashes has promised not to be that. If they don't fulfill that promise then they will fail.
  • Feels like the 100th time this topic is posted.

    confident the same info being expressed is then same as the 100 other times.

    basic answer to the OP is NO,  because Ashes is a PVX where everything intrinsically  integrates into a complex system resulting in a far greater community initiative.
  • irish01 said:
    Hi there,  I am very excited about this game but was disappointed to hear that there will be no pve servers. I have been telling my friends and family about this game but if there is no pve servers it will surely turn them off as most of them and myself included dont enjoy open world pvp. I have played games where im gathering and get jumped by two or three people and it is not fun.Please take into consideration adding pve servers as a lot of people enjoy having it as an option and play style Thank you for your time.
    Not going to happen. Stop insisting on feeding water to the fuel tank of a Ford Mustang when the manual clearly states otherwise.
  • MMORPG = catering to a diverse array of playstyles that typically tend to be a blend between PvP, PvE or RP categories. To cut out, in this case PvP, would require a complete redesign of system mechanics to create essentially an entirely different game from the PvX scope that is Ashes of Creation. PvP and PvE both play integral roles in the over arching scope of the system design and mechanics. Intrepid will be designing a game, in their vision (which has been stated to be PvX centric) that is balancing key activities of all 3 categories. One will need to play the game in its full scope based on all communications received to date .. meaning no there will not be isolated PvE or RP servers.

    Thanks,

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2018
    No one is really asking for PvP to be completely cut out - they're really asking for non-consensual PvP to be shut off.
    Which, apparently is more complex at this point than simply flipping a switch - so highly unlikely to happen.

    In Ashes, a "PvE" would still have sieges and arenas and caravan raids.
    But they would be consensual rather than non-consensual.
    More character v character than player v player.

    Whether the devs can actually pull off having all the playstyles play happily on the same servers remains to be seen.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2018
    Dygz said:
    No one is really asking for PvP to be completely cut out - they're really asking for non-consensual PvP to be shut off.
    Which, apparently is more complex at this point than simply flipping a switch - so highly unlikely to happen.

    In Ashes, a "PvE" would still have sieges and arenas and caravan raids.
    But they would be consensual rather than non-consensual.
    More character v character than player v player.

    Whether the devs can actually pull off having all the playstyles play happily on the same servers remains to be seen.
    There are core system mechanics driven around it ... would essentially equate to a re-design / net new game. To do this would essential require eliminating open world PvP to a large, or almost complete fashion.
  • The core PvP systems are sieges and caravans - battlegrounds, which would still function even on a "PvE" server.
    Having non-consensual PvP combat turned off or manual flagging outside of battlegrounds would not be a new game. It's a different rule-set.
    But, when the devs are not even open to a separate RP server -which does not require a change in code at all- we know that a server with manual flagging outside of battlegrounds is highly unlikely to happen (like 98% unlikely).
  • Dygz said:
    The core PvP systems are sieges and caravans - battlegrounds, which would still function even on a "PvE" server.
    Having non-consensual PvP combat turned off or manual flagging outside of battlegrounds would not be a new game. It's a different rule-set.
    But, when the devs are not even open to a separate RP server -which does not require a change in code at all- we know that a server with manual flagging outside of battlegrounds is highly unlikely to happen (like 98% unlikely).
    Goes back to my point. Play the game, experience it fully and with statements made such as "anti-grieving" or means of playing the game with little experience to PvP mechanics, i personally think you will find that those wishing to avoid open world PvP will have a large means of so doing. At least from my personal opinion, I just do not see a rational where the DEV team would wish to deliver anything but the full experience at launch. Restricting mechanics and such ... nah, lets play the game designed =)
  • Basically, I don't think anyone will get a RP server, or A PVE server, where open world pvp isn't in the game. I takes away from what Intrepid wants the game to be, it also creates a hindrance on the systems already in place. If you dont want a lot of PVP move to a lower populated server, group with friends etc. Strength in numbers. Many alternative routes to protect yourself without having to PVP. 

    But complaining about systems you haven't tested, and systems that haven't been refined yet, is a waste of breath. Basically I 100% agree with Bell. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2018
    Dygz said:
    The core PvP systems are sieges and caravans - battlegrounds, which would still function even on a "PvE" server.
    Having non-consensual PvP combat turned off or manual flagging outside of battlegrounds would not be a new game. It's a different rule-set.
    But, when the devs are not even open to a separate RP server -which does not require a change in code at all- we know that a server with manual flagging outside of battlegrounds is highly unlikely to happen (like 98% unlikely).
    Goes back to my point. Play the game, experience it fully and with statements made such as "anti-grieving" or means of playing the game with little experience to PvP mechanics, i personally think you will find that those wishing to avoid open world PvP will have a large means of so doing. At least from my personal opinion, I just do not see a rational where the DEV team would wish to deliver anything but the full experience at launch. Restricting mechanics and such ... nah, lets play the game designed =)
    Opinion isn't worth much when we have no evidence.
    We will have to play the game to know.
    And, of course, by then it will be too late to change much so the only alternative at that point will be to not play. After investing hundreds of dollars in the game.
    Although, I'm investing specifically so devs can work on the Nodes system - since it is a successor to EQNext StoryBricks and needs to be a component in the next generation of MMORPGs - which is still not dependent upon non-consensual PvP combat.
    Doesn't really matter to me if Ashes ends up being too PvP-centric for me to play as long as the Nodes system works to my satisfaction.

    Again...people are not complaining about open world PvP combat.
    People are complaining about non-consensual PvP combat.
    And, we don't have to play a game to know whether we will enjoy non-consensual PvP combat.
    We have to wait until Beta to determine whether or not Corruption sufficiently curtails non-consensual PvP combat.
  • I just worry because seemingly every single open pvp game out there always claims in development that they'll have the grief thing licked.  Invariably they are proven wrong practically every time.

    So much about ashes looks good, but that open pvp is the enthusiasm killer for me.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2018

    Not really sure whether there is merit in having different style servers or whether it is a "Death Knell" for an MMORPG. I can't really think of any MMO that started with diff flavor servers. I can only think of those that have created them long after they have tried and failed to manage acceptable "random PVP" for much of their player base. Those rarely worked well as they were too late.

    I don't think that everybody can ever be totally pleased on this front.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2018
    EQ, EQ2 and WoW all started with separate PvE servers and PvP servers. Pretty sure WoW also started with separate RP servers.
  • Never played any EQ. WoW I did play and they had terrible problems with level discrepancy PVP for a good long time. But neither are OW PVP are they?
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