How hard

Hello guys ! I am new here!
I was wondering how hard the game should be?
I am a Mmorpg veteran  started With Everquest and what made this game great to me was the degree of danger of the world.
Sometimes very painfull but so exciding. Toda y, all the games of any genre are so easy. I think the challenge is important for a lot of us.
Thanks,
Covus

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Comments

  • Well from what ive gathered from livestreams and the forums this game isnt catered to casuals.
  • Welcome @Covus. You will feel right at home here if you are into challenging MMORPGs. There's a large contingent of EQ players here in the community, and also on the Dev team too. Kick back and join the chatter :) 
  • Difficulty is ironically difficult to get right in role playing games.  For some people, it's about the stories and adventures you have. Whereas for others it's a more competitive scene. If you're talking about PvE expect anything other then bosses to be pushovers. But as for PvP Ashe's arena system and sieges should make for some cut-throat gameplay. 
  • @RiseFromTheSea
    Hold up there, there's a place for everyone in Ashes of Creation.  :smile:
  • Elder said:
    @RiseFromTheSea
    Hold up there, there's a place for everyone in Ashes of Creation.  :smile:
    True words but i dont think they're catering to casuals. Dont get me wrong with casuals comes cash but from my opinion catoring to casuals kills mmos
  • That seems like an elitist point of view to me. Games are for fun and everyone should be able to enjoy them no matter how much time they get to play. That being said I don't think Intrepid should dumb down the game just so casual players can compete in the late game.  They should instead make all content fun and compelling.
  • Elder said:
    That seems like an elitist point of view to me. Games are for fun and everyone should be able to enjoy them no matter how much time they get to play. That being said I don't think Intrepid should dumb down the game just so casual players can compete in the late game.  They should instead make all content fun and compelling.
    This is what i mean. Not that casuals arent welcome or an essential part of the community but so many games cater (make the game super easy for them with easy skill trees pay to win so on so forth) to people who either dont have the time or the practical know how to get better at the game. Take star wars knights of the old repuvlic as an example. Once EA stepped in and dumbed the game down it turned into a simplified experience and a cash grab from the casuals they catered to while putting the core community in the background so to speak. 
  • I understand what you're going for now. Better to say cater to both parties than not cater to one. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Elder said:
    I understand what you're going for now. Better to say cater to both parties than not cater to one. 
    Exactly. And while AoC doesnt seem to be an easy walk through game there are aspects that any casual can enjoy. Like the monster coin system or even simple farming haha
  • hopefully PvE is challenging with degrees of bring difficult (dungeons)  and PvP will be based on skill of the community and the player  
  • The best way to do this, I think of course, is to have a hard game with easy concepts. Have many simple spells, talents, and abilities that need to be combo'ed and rotationally played to make things moderately difficult while also having creative ways to get out of situations; one example of getting out of a situation with a creative way is to have a fire blast be a propellant to push a mage off the ground for a short period of time if it can avoid a ground effect, or perhaps fire damage to self to break frozen. They are simple spells, just not used in simply one way which leads to both Exploration and Skill Building. 

    The game -does- need to be marketed to those who cannot compete at top end levels... Not everyone is a top end player after all who is willing to do the research, put in the practice, and -able- to execute the skill and playstyle... They need the subs to continue making the game awesome for years to come.

    The Politics and Tradesmen skills are an amazing thing for those players who are not top-end to get into (of course, not saying there will not be top end tradesmen) and will fund them for things they wish to do. As an example, my mother who I swear cannot plan a course of attack on a one legged boar with ranged weapons without getting killed in game... She likes to Explore the World, she did that with Vanguard and was more than impressed with what I thought was a simple area... But she paid for that Sub, kept her interest in the game, made friends, and in turn was apart of the gaming community. Don't discourage the non-elites, >_>; FARM THEM MUAHAHAHA but really... They help perpetuate the Hardcore's fun and excitement through direct and indirect means.
  • The difficulty in this game isn going to be unique. It's about keeping up the trades, the crafting, defending nodes from monster invasions and sieges to keep your node functioning. If you don't work hard to support your node it'll probably be lost ^^
    Mob difficulty scales with the node level so it will vary through out the landscape depending on what nodes are at what stage.
    Not sure about dungeons but the teams are aware that mob scaling with players is really important and are working it out to have it right.
    imo Ashes of Creation wont be a standard linear quest driven mmo so the type of difficulty won't be the same as standard mmos.
    Ashes is going to be a new experience with meaningful play so everything you do has value to the greater community. Everything has a risk/reward attatched to it so the difficulty is getting the reward not the risk xD
  • Casual does not mean easy. There are many skilled players who simply do not have 8 hours a day to dedicate to the game. Still, they can achieve great goals and often be better players than mindless farmers who spend hours killing A.I. mobs.

    I would like the game to be hard, which in my mind doesn't mean grindy. To me it means offering engaging and challenging encounters, quests and events.
  • Casual does not mean easy. There are many skilled players who simply do not have 8 hours a day to dedicate to the game. Still, they can achieve great goals and often be better players than mindless farmers who spend hours killing A.I. mobs.

    I would like the game to be hard, which in my mind doesn't mean grindy. To me it means offering engaging and challenging encounters, quests and events.
    Ashes will not be a grind game and thus far the game will offer you your latter suggestions :3 Ashes aims to have all content that we do meaningful so regardless of the amount of time you have available to play - whatever you choose to do will have some impact on the greater community ^^
  • i think it will be hard :D
  • So hard
  • PVE difficulty is easier to determine, bosses could have more health, hit faster/harder or move more around the battlefield. In general most players should be able to complete the basic (non-hard mode) PVE content. That might make it a little easy but I'm fine with that.

    PVP difficulty is an entirely different discussion. Here I find difficulty quite important because unstanding your class (and the opponents class) should be a steep learning curve. If you can learn all the class in a week it tends to get boring quickly. Therefor the skills, effects and combat mechanics need to be somewhat complicated. This will allow players to slowly develop counters for all classes without it being too straight forward.

    The other thing thats important is numbers, nobody likes to lose to less skilled players just because they're outnumbered. Ideally there would be mechanics to prevent groups from getting to big. For example, if an AOE spell hits more than X targets the dmg is increased by a significant amount. This forces players to spread out which makes it harder for the healers to keep everyone alive. This allows smaller organized groups to chip away players from larger groups.

    PVP has usually been my main focus in MMOs so I really hope Ashes gets it right.

  • I don't think they are going to rid of grinding..
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    I don't think they are going to rid of grinding..
    It will be another kind of grind, but to some point. It will not be like other games: keep killing the same monsters until you reach max level. It will most likely be a crafting/gathering kind of grind, with requirements to kill certain monsters along the way to reach the required ingredient or to find the wanted item.


    Casual does not mean easy. There are many skilled players who simply do not have 8 hours a day to dedicate to the game. Still, they can achieve great goals and often be better players than mindless farmers who spend hours killing A.I. mobs.

    I would like the game to be hard, which in my mind doesn't mean grindy. To me it means offering engaging and challenging encounters, quests and events.

    I like your way of thinking. Also by making the game/mobs harder/stronger, it gives more chances for the casual players with decent skills to keep up with the hardcore players.
    Of course, those hardcore players with decent-masterful skills will be the most advanced, but with the node system in this game they will not be too far ahead like in other games where hardcore are close to max level and the decent casual is around mid levels.
  • If the majority of the progression for players will be horizontal progression. 

    It actually aids casuals in getting to a point where they can compete. Just that they'll have less variety to choose from compared to the less casual players. 

    As in more time spent with give you more options/augments vs. More power.
  • Difficulty to me is a combination of strength and hardness, where strength is the level/hp/attack damage of the mobs, and hardness is the ability of to mob to move and act in response to how you are fighting it, basically it's AI component.

    I personally prefer to have a harder AI then a stronger mob. Now when it comes to bosses I think it is fitting that they are both stronger and harder.
  • HARD SO ALWAYS TARGET TO SEE.

    EASY SO ALL PLAY IN WORLD ENJOY.

    BALANCE GIVE KEY.
  • don't think of this as a game but as a living world where you decide how hard or easy it will be 
  • What Nagash Said. They need to make this a living world with Varying levels of difficulty and achievement. Give everyone something to work for and you really can please all the people. You cant please all the people if you set everything at one specific level and expect everyone to like it.
  • Xontian said:
    What Nagash Said. They need to make this a living world with Varying levels of difficulty and achievement. Give everyone something to work for and you really can please all the people. You cant please all the people if you set everything at one specific level and expect everyone to like it.
    They have pretty much said this.  
    There will be a place for all, from the solo and casual players to the hard core players.  This is not going to be a game that holds your hand and lets you walk through it.  It is going to be up to each one of us which path we take.

    From all I have read and listened to, I  feel that mob AI will be more intuitive in this world and what we encounter out in the wilds may be more then we expect.  A high level meanie may spawn and roam the land randomly.  

    The Devs have heard our cries as they too have experienced the "dumbing down" of the game worlds.  I believe they are on the road to changing that.  




  • If everyone was elite, you wouldn't like it.  You need casual players to make the elite feel, well, elite.  Not everyone wants to be king of a heap; most people just want to be effective and feel they can get a job done...whatever that job is.  Most people have a feel for what their skill levels are and know they will not be hardcore...and that's ok.  We need people who are more niche and in a way this game is designed for you to find that niche.  If you are hardcore there will be a place for you, I'm sure (thinks Military node).  

    Anyway, I think they are trying to have sometime to do for every type of player.
  • Xontian said:
    What Nagash Said. They need to make this a living world with Varying levels of difficulty and achievement. Give everyone something to work for and you really can please all the people. You cant please all the people if you set everything at one specific level and expect everyone to like it.
    They have pretty much said this.  
    There will be a place for all, from the solo and casual players to the hard core players.  This is not going to be a game that holds your hand and lets you walk through it.  It is going to be up to each one of us which path we take.

    From all I have read and listened to, I  feel that mob AI will be more intuitive in this world and what we encounter out in the wilds may be more then we expect.  A high level meanie may spawn and roam the land randomly.  

    The Devs have heard our cries as they too have experienced the "dumbing down" of the game worlds.  I believe they are on the road to changing that.  





    Hehe, the devs weren't particularly specific about the enemy Ai though during their djtechlive interview though. Jeffery said that it won't be an IBM supercomputer while Steven jumped in to say that it will be robust without giving any details. 

    I'm expecting mob Ai to be functional and challenging but probably nothing more revolutionary than that.  Just based on the observation that if they had a revolutionary idea about mob Ai they'd probably be talking more about it. Heh heh.


  • Hehe, the devs weren't particularly specific about the enemy Ai though during their djtechlive interview though. Jeffery said that it won't be an IBM supercomputer while Steven jumped in to say that it will be robust without giving any details. 

    I'm expecting mob Ai to be functional and challenging but probably nothing more revolutionary than that.  Just based on the observation that if they had a revolutionary idea about mob Ai they'd probably be talking more about it. Heh heh.
    There are open source AI technologies right now (like TensorFlow) that are improving exponentially. It wouldn't be too difficult to integrate this into mob behavior (and other dynamic elements) to make this game a step ahead of everybody else.

    If Intrepid are pursuing this, then I'd understand their secrecy, because they would not want to the AAA studios beating them to the mark.
  • lexmax said:

    Hehe, the devs weren't particularly specific about the enemy Ai though during their djtechlive interview though. Jeffery said that it won't be an IBM supercomputer while Steven jumped in to say that it will be robust without giving any details. 

    I'm expecting mob Ai to be functional and challenging but probably nothing more revolutionary than that.  Just based on the observation that if they had a revolutionary idea about mob Ai they'd probably be talking more about it. Heh heh.
    There are open source AI technologies right now (like TensorFlow) that are improving exponentially. It wouldn't be too difficult to integrate this into mob behavior (and other dynamic elements) to make this game a step ahead of everybody else.

    If Intrepid are pursuing this, then I'd understand their secrecy, because they would not want to the AAA studios beating them to the mark.

    That's possible as well.

    That wasn't totally the message I got when looking at the glances that they had with one another but, as I've mentioned, my impression was just purely based on observation and is just pure speculation. Haha. 

    Either way, I don't think the Ai will be bad, and there is a possible upside of it being revolutionary. 
  • I enjoy a decent grind, being a Lineage 2 Vet I can grind with the best of them. The industry has swung the pendulum to far to the no effort needed side though. It feels like Ashes is going to swing it back to a balanced state that non of us have experienced in the genre.
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