Lore paradox (speculation wanted)

ArchivedUser

The lore we know describes a mass exodus from the Ashes world to a non-magical world through divine gateways. Then thousands of years later, the gateways reopened allowing the descendants from the Ashes world to return to their place of origin.

We have many races in the game, Humans being one such race. So my question is, how is it possible for humans to be part of this story?

ArchivedUser

I don't think there is "Earth". Although they are humans I don't think they are from Earth - I just think we have humans because they are obviously the most humanoid thing possible to have in a game genre xD
I think the non-magic world are worlds or a single planet with divided continents in which the races are spread out.
Perhaps an expansion down the line might allow us to visit the other worlds who knows.
I would love to read theories though

ArchivedUser

I tend to agree with @Diura. I think Earth may not exist in this universe. That Humans might originate from the Ashes homeworld and are returning back like every other race. But having Earth in the lore would be an interesting and exciting plot twist

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

I tend to agree with @Diura. I think Earth may not exist in this universe. That Humans might originate from the Ashes homeworld and are returning back like every other race. But having Earth in the lore would be an interesting and exciting plot twist

@lexmax I think it's  like a historic loop between each world. I think there is a Phoenix God that destroyes the world when it's too civilised "for good or bad reasons" and forces civiliasarton to flee from world to world to start a fresh for a "better world"

ArchivedUser

If the other world had no magic, who is to say it had much of anything?  It may have consisted largely of uninspired uninhabited wastelands.   The various races could have held on to their culture, legends, and knowledge of their old world - passing it down generation after generation, just waiting for the chance that they could one day return as a civilization. 

ArchivedUser

Rumbleforge said:

If the other world had no magic, who is to say it had much of anything?  It may have consisted largely of uninspired uninhabited wastelands.   The various races could have held on to their culture, legends, and knowledge of their old world - passing it down generation after generation, just waiting for the chance that they could one day return as a civilization. 

I believe that too but I think it's been so long since the gates have been shut that it's almost a legend - the world of Ashes - forgotten and has become a story - until the gates reopen *gasp*

ArchivedUser

Diura said:

Rumbleforge said:

If the other world had no magic, who is to say it had much of anything?  It may have consisted largely of uninspired uninhabited wastelands.   The various races could have held on to their culture, legends, and knowledge of their old world - passing it down generation after generation, just waiting for the chance that they could one day return as a civilization. 

I believe that too but I think it's been so long since the gates have been shut that it's almost a legend - the world of Ashes - forgotten and has become a story - until the gates reopen *gasp*

Which poses for some interesting drama in terms of story, doesn't it?   People who believed in the legends of Ashes, being proved right.... VS those who thought it mere stories of fancy, now coming to the realization of the reality.

And all these beings pouring through the gates, refugees who want to claim the world as their birthright.... VS a world who has gotten on for ages without them, and may be indifferent to them at best - or hostile to them at worst.

Potentially, the very lore of this game is setup for conflict on many levels. 

ArchivedUser

Diura said:

lexmax said:

I tend to agree with @Diura. I think Earth may not exist in this universe. That Humans might originate from the Ashes homeworld and are returning back like every other race. But having Earth in the lore would be an interesting and exciting plot twist

@lexmax I think it's  like a historic loop between each world. I think there is a Phoenix God that destroyes the world when it's too civilised "for good or bad reasons" and forces civiliasarton to flee from world to world to start a fresh for a "better world"

I like it alot! A god like Shiva or Cronus would be interesting. I'm more of the mindset that overused and misused magic was the force that corrupted the homeworld and that even the gods couldn't stop it, so they had to save the peeps by sending them through the gateways. Just idle speculation.

ArchivedUser

Humans originated from the Ashes world and have since been seeded across the universe. The humans for the ashes world lived there for hundreds of thousands of years before the exodus!

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

Diura said:

lexmax said:

I tend to agree with @Diura. I think Earth may not exist in this universe. That Humans might originate from the Ashes homeworld and are returning back like every other race. But having Earth in the lore would be an interesting and exciting plot twist

@lexmax I think it's  like a historic loop between each world. I think there is a Phoenix God that destroyes the world when it's too civilised "for good or bad reasons" and forces civiliasarton to flee from world to world to start a fresh for a "better world"

I like it alot! A god like Shiva or Cronus would be interesting. I'm more of the mindset that overused and misused magic was the force that corrupted the homeworld and that even the gods couldn't stop it, so they had to save the peeps by sending them through the gateways. Just idle speculation.

That's a great idea xD
I was thinking too that it was like a pandora box thing and the gods gave magic to the people but missed would cause corruption - and corruption is a force itself and that why when we use monster coins we become monsters. So Phoenix god I think destroyes cos it links in with logo and the meaning of a Phoenix etc kinda taken litterally. I also think Tulnar are a creation from corruption left behind xD I could ramble on all day about my theories lol xD

ArchivedUser

Diura said:

lexmax said:

Diura said:

lexmax said:

I tend to agree with @Diura. I think Earth may not exist in this universe. That Humans might originate from the Ashes homeworld and are returning back like every other race. But having Earth in the lore would be an interesting and exciting plot twist

@lexmax I think it's  like a historic loop between each world. I think there is a Phoenix God that destroyes the world when it's too civilised "for good or bad reasons" and forces civiliasarton to flee from world to world to start a fresh for a "better world"

I like it alot! A god like Shiva or Cronus would be interesting. I'm more of the mindset that overused and misused magic was the force that corrupted the homeworld and that even the gods couldn't stop it, so they had to save the peeps by sending them through the gateways. Just idle speculation.

That's a great idea xD
I was thinking too that it was like a pandora box thing and the gods gave magic to the people but missed would cause corruption - and corruption is a force itself and that why when we use monster coins we become monsters. So Phoenix god I think destroyes cos it links in with logo and the meaning of a Phoenix etc kinda taken litterally. I also think Tulnar are a creation from corruption left behind xD I could ramble on all day about my theories lol xD

Please do That's what this thread is for! I love this stuff

ArchivedUser

Rumbleforge said:

Diura said:

Rumbleforge said:

If the other world had no magic, who is to say it had much of anything?  It may have consisted largely of uninspired uninhabited wastelands.   The various races could have held on to their culture, legends, and knowledge of their old world - passing it down generation after generation, just waiting for the chance that they could one day return as a civilization. 

I believe that too but I think it's been so long since the gates have been shut that it's almost a legend - the world of Ashes - forgotten and has become a story - until the gates reopen *gasp*

Which poses for some interesting drama in terms of story, doesn't it?   People who believed in the legends of Ashes, being proved right.... VS those who thought it mere stories of fancy, now coming to the realization of the reality.

And all these beings pouring through the gates, refugees who want to claim the world as their birthright.... VS a world who has gotten on for ages without them, and may be indifferent to them at best - or hostile to them at worst.

Potentially, the very lore of this game is setup for conflict on many levels. 

Where is that damn insightful button when you need it

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

Rumbleforge said:

Diura said:

Rumbleforge said:

If the other world had no magic, who is to say it had much of anything?  It may have consisted largely of uninspired uninhabited wastelands.   The various races could have held on to their culture, legends, and knowledge of their old world - passing it down generation after generation, just waiting for the chance that they could one day return as a civilization. 

I believe that too but I think it's been so long since the gates have been shut that it's almost a legend - the world of Ashes - forgotten and has become a story - until the gates reopen *gasp*

Which poses for some interesting drama in terms of story, doesn't it?   People who believed in the legends of Ashes, being proved right.... VS those who thought it mere stories of fancy, now coming to the realization of the reality.

And all these beings pouring through the gates, refugees who want to claim the world as their birthright.... VS a world who has gotten on for ages without them, and may be indifferent to them at best - or hostile to them at worst.

Potentially, the very lore of this game is setup for conflict on many levels. 

Where is that damn insightful button when you need it

So true xD well my character lore will be finished soon xD maybe it gives an insight (see what I didn't there) into some of my ideas of the Ashes world xD See it through my eyes xD

ArchivedUser

There is no earth, the other world is a magicless sister planet of the Ashes world

ArchivedUser

Rumbleforge said:

Diura said:

Rumbleforge said:

If the other world had no magic, who is to say it had much of anything?  It may have consisted largely of uninspired uninhabited wastelands.   The various races could have held on to their culture, legends, and knowledge of their old world - passing it down generation after generation, just waiting for the chance that they could one day return as a civilization. 

I believe that too but I think it's been so long since the gates have been shut that it's almost a legend - the world of Ashes - forgotten and has become a story - until the gates reopen *gasp*

Which poses for some interesting drama in terms of story, doesn't it?   People who believed in the legends of Ashes, being proved right.... VS those who thought it mere stories of fancy, now coming to the realization of the reality.

And all these beings pouring through the gates, refugees who want to claim the world as their birthright.... VS a world who has gotten on for ages without them, and may be indifferent to them at best - or hostile to them at worst.

Potentially, the very lore of this game is setup for conflict on many levels. 

Well, we are part of the expedition force sent to rediscover this world. So I'm assuming that many of those non-believer might still be stuck on the old non-ashes world refusing to cross the portal.

Perhaps there'll be an expansion later on where the non-believers attempt to sabotage the portal to prevent anyone else from returning to ashes. 

There will probably be people who're bitter at having been "forgotten" or "cast aside" for the gods for so long. That would be a good source of drama and stories as well. Raiding the gods is definitely something I hope to do a few expansions down the line. 

Btw, it probably isn't earth as we know it mainly due to the different fantasy races. At most it'll be an alternate earth. 

ArchivedUser

I'm of the belief that they're not actually "humans" from "Earth".  The term "humans" is only being used because it's the point of reference we Earthlings understand.  If you look at the chart of the races, it looks like the "humans" tag is only added on for our clarity.  The race is actually called "Aela" and subdivided into the two groups "Kaelar" & "Vaelune".  Once the game is launched and we're more familiar with the races, we may cease to call them humans and simply refer to them as "Aela".

ArchivedUser

Yeah, I don't think that these are the same humans as the earthlings. 

ArchivedUser

I have to agree with the notion that the "humans" were native to this world, perhaps even one of the original species, having a patron god responsible for their existence. I imagine each race being the embodiment of the principles they were created, each one having innate characteristics that fuction as a sort of means to an end of the god(s)  that created them. It would be these abilities that would ironically be the mechanism of their undoing. A rebellion against the gods, fueled by the inhabitants desires to be the source of their own power. A rift was created by the abuse of their abilities, the corruption of greed and hatred seeped into the hearts of the people, poisoning their works and sorching the surface of the world. Those that remained loyal were forced to flee for fear of their lives, but not all were destined to outrun the blight, many were left behind, scorned by the others due to their deformities. Driven nearly mad by their abandonment, they made the exodus to the heart of the planet, only there would they be safe from the reach of the corrupted souls that now dwelled above. With time the strength of those who clashed against the gods would subside, allowing the the connection between the people and their homeland to establish itself once again. It is now where we find ourselves, returning to the land of our ancestors, will we find ourselves capable rebuilding the lives shattered by the lure of power, or will the lingering shadows of corruption consume us all? 

ArchivedUser

Possum said:

I'm of the belief that they're not actually "humans" from "Earth".  The term "humans" is only being used because it's the point of reference we Earthlings understand.  If you look at the chart of the races, it looks like the "humans" tag is only added on for our clarity.  The race is actually called "Aela" and subdivided into the two groups "Kaelar" & "Vaelune".  Once the game is launched and we're more familiar with the races, we may cease to call them humans and simply refer to them as "Aela".

I don't know if that is the species name, or if it the world/continent name where they come from. i.e. American Humans, African humans, Earth humans, Mars Humans

ArchivedUser

Who is to say that humans are only on planet Earth?  There's plenty of evidence to support that the human race came from the stars.  Now I'm not saying for a fact that the human race did, but it's something that definitely warrants further research and is a great topic of debate.

ArchivedUser

Rumbleforge said:

Diura said:

Rumbleforge said:

If the other world had no magic, who is to say it had much of anything?  It may have consisted largely of uninspired uninhabited wastelands.   The various races could have held on to their culture, legends, and knowledge of their old world - passing it down generation after generation, just waiting for the chance that they could one day return as a civilization. 

I believe that too but I think it's been so long since the gates have been shut that it's almost a legend - the world of Ashes - forgotten and has become a story - until the gates reopen *gasp*

Which poses for some interesting drama in terms of story, doesn't it?   People who believed in the legends of Ashes, being proved right.... VS those who thought it mere stories of fancy, now coming to the realization of the reality.

And all these beings pouring through the gates, refugees who want to claim the world as their birthright.... VS a world who has gotten on for ages without them, and may be indifferent to them at best - or hostile to them at worst.

Potentially, the very lore of this game is setup for conflict on many levels. 

Oh, yay, thank you so much @Rumbleforge & @Diura! Finally, I can begin to decide the shape of my characters! I mean, are they the "believed" or "didn't believe" faction? Whew! That helps!

Seriously, about the question; I believe (and this is just li'l ol' me) that while it's probable that humans, in our universe, only exist on Earth, that doesn't make it probable that in all universes, humans only exist on Earth. I think when you really start getting into the Fantasy, and even some Sci-Fi, genres, you find that humans or human-type people are found in myriad, diverse locations. So, yeah, for me, "Potato".

ArchivedUser

You have no idea how much I wanted to vote potato.

ArchivedUser

Conspiracy theory: 
The devs will play this out through future story and events.  None of the races are originally from the Ashes world, but instead, are being tricked into believing that's where their ancestors are originally from.  The gods are using the various races to repopulate "Ashes" to help them fight off the powerful evil that is now threatening their godhood.  

ArchivedUser

the idea of a parallel universe has always been interesting , but quite complicated. For example "if in the universe there are people why is their no" or "why haven't they taken over the planet of ashes in his universe" and these mistakes quite a lot

ArchivedUser

I think the gods are fighting over this mortal plane, evil vs good. The Evil or Mad gods have succeeded in corrupting the current civilization of humans/dwarves/elves/orcs and  the corruption lead to war, famine, greed hate and destruction, however the divines open portals and lead the mortals away to a new world......thousands of years later and unhappy with their empty word the Madgods re-open the portals and cunningly invite the good folk to step through in search of even a better world or new lands...only to allow them to settle and prosper until again they have their way with us...Im rolling with that lol.

ArchivedUser

i believe the ashes "escaped to" world is a subtle jab at the MMO's that came before. . . we came from the other planets (whichever mmo you WERE a part of *cough world of warcraft cough*)and are returning to where we belong. . . as such those other planets could have taken up refugees, perhaps denizens of said other planets, and THOSE refugees are the humans we play as. . . just a theory among dozens.

ArchivedUser

Theres more than 1 gateway.
Why have more than 1 gate unless there is more than 1 path ?
If there is more than 1 path, there must be more than one origin/destination

This fits with the 4 races as each coming from/to a different place via a different gateway.
The humans merely come from one of the 4 gates

On the question of if they are in the same space time or alternate parallel dimensions.
Depends if they are dimensional gates or wormholes.

A wormhole would imply universal physics.
A Dimensional Gate would imply different physics.

ArchivedUser

The gateways aren't racial, at least in terms of returning to Verra

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

The gateways aren't racial, at least in terms of returning to Verra

But is that actually how it is? We know we can start from any gateway but is that just there for our convenience so players can easily start together without having to pick the same race. The lore could explain it as your character coming through their races gateway then traveling to the one you want to start at. 

ArchivedUser

Yea, potatoes.

ArchivedUser

Where is the paradox? Humans are a race in many fantasy worlds, and I don't see any connection between the fact that the races fled through divine gates to another world. Also I am pretty sure that nobody said that the world they fled to didn't have magic. Magic may not be a world based system just something that is inherent to the universe.