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This Is Going To Be A Great MMO

Bet on the Jockey, not on the Horse.


It's a simple philosophy. I know that if Blizzard releases a new IP, that I would be first in line to try it. I have faith in Blizzard, and their passion for what that do. So much so, that I'm willing to try anything they release, knowing that they've made it to the best of their abilities.

I'm getting a similar feeling from Intrepid.

The transparency of their communication, and the sheer joy and passion that the devs have for their flagship product has me very excited for the game we are about to receive. This is why many of us have thrown money at them without so much as a single playthrough under our belts. I feel confident that regardless of the hardships and circumstances that may rear their ugly heads, these game devs will stick to their guns and grind through to a big win for all of us.

This is going to be a hell of a race winning Horse, and I pity anyone who doubts these Jockeys. 
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Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017

    You can have a jockey and the horse shatters its leg. Blizzard is a great example. Diablo 3 was a massive failure for the first 2 years of existence and despite profit and sales from long time Diablo and Blizzard fans was an example of such studio having a massive failure. Diablo 3 has gone through 3 complete redesigns and now can't even get an expansion. StarCraft 2 while polished and a good game, is not nearly as popular competitively as StarCraft 1. Hearthstone and Overwatch are successes. You can believe in the people and they may work very hard but odds are against a smash hit. Very few players expect the same things from a MMO, especially one with such lofty goals and broad definition, all of us have an "idea" how we want this game to be but it will disappoint many.


    All I have to say is show me the money. It's all speculation at this point and history, unreal engine, and the current market say the odds aren't in our favors.

  • For me, half the success of a online game depends on it's community. 
    And in that regard, I feel Ashes is already over halfway there on he road to success. ;)

    As far as Blizzard is concerned.... rumblings indicate that they're going to release a remastered version of Diablo 2 sometime in the future. 
    That will be a win in my book. 

  • I'm shovelling the coal, shovelling the coal! All aboard the hype train!
  • I don't know if it would ever materialize, but I've seen someone speculate on the possibility of a "World of Diablo".  I'm not a Diablo player, but I understand it has great lore.  I wouldn't mind exploring that if a WoD did become reality.

    But right now, the focus of my MMORPG hopes and dreams is right here.
  • As hyped as I want to be about an MMO, I've learned my lesson not to after watching games like BDO, Aion, Tera, and Star Wars Galaxies just fall apart.

    BDO might still be "in good standing" but I was so disappointed with the fact that 90% of the game was solo and about 10% (that being PvP) was team based. It was literally pointless to be in a guild and the enchant/upgrade system was absolutely one of the worst approaches I have ever seen.

    Aion just.... well let's see. They nerfed my class. HARD. (Gladiator) My 2 self heals were put on the same cooldown (destroying my effectiveness in pvp). They removed the strongest spear in the game completely. It was a lvl47 spear called Zapiels Spear with a tiny drop rate and heavily farmed boss location that only spawned a couple of times a day. Along with this, they merged servers because some were dead but at the same time they allowed free server swaps so my server went from being 300 active elyos vs 700 active asmos to 250 active elyos vs 2000 active asmos. We were horribly overwhelmed.

    Tera's level expansion was cancer. The 2 race based classes (Reaper and Brawler) were both given to female characters. What the shit. Female human brawler when the Amani and the stone people were literally built for melee.

    SWG.... combat patch. Class reduction (my 3 months of hard work to be a master bounty hunter was basically given to people for free when they had to reassign their levels. The gold sellers didn't help either. Absolute trash. Damn it Sony.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Just remember, most of the other mmos were built by corporations...

    This game is a small, almost 'family' run business.... Now whilst family businesses can fail just as much as anything else, they do normally have extraordinary ethics and strong core values.

    It's when they have to start focusing on making the shareholders happy that morals and things start slipping.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is ...
    If this doesn't come to anything, I get a guaranteed refund via ks.
    However, if this game does turn up, even if it lacks ongoing financial viability, it will almost definitely be the game that they've been describing.

    Which is personally, all I want. I want to live in that intrepid universe.
    Toot toot hype train is now departing from discussion central. :smiley:
  • Megs said:
    I guess what I'm trying to say is ...
    If this doesn't come to anything, I get a guaranteed refund via ks.
    shhhhhhh don't say it. If this game doesn't make it, I'm going to spend my refund on one night in a tavern just to get over it.
  • You can have a jockey and the horse shatters its leg. Blizzard is a great example. Diablo 3 was a massive failure for the first 2 years of existence and despite profit and sales from long time Diablo and Blizzard fans was an example of such studio having a massive failure. Diablo 3 has gone through 3 complete redesigns and now can't even get an expansion. StarCraft 2 while polished and a good game, is not nearly as popular competitively as StarCraft 1. Hearthstone and Overwatch are successes. You can believe in the people and they may work very hard but odds are against a smash hit. Very few players expect the same things from a MMO, especially one with such lofty goals and broad definition, all of us have an "idea" how we want this game to be but it will disappoint many.


    All I have to say is show me the money. It's all speculation at this point and history, unreal engine, and the current market say the odds aren't in our favors.

    This is an example of short term thinking, the exact opposite of what I spoke about. Blizzard had=s the fortitude to grind through the tough times. Auction House 3 was bad, what Diablo 3 is now is much more enjoyable. Starcraft 2 is not nearly as popular mainly because of the emergence of MOBAs. 

    Have faith in this passionate dev team to see this project through. People such as you may fall off the bandwagon early, and that's ok. That's a guarantee to happen. However I have a good feeling that 5 years from now, this game will still be kicking along.
  • As hyped as I want to be about an MMO, I've learned my lesson not to after watching games like BDO, Aion, Tera, and Star Wars Galaxies just fall apart.

    BDO might still be "in good standing" but I was so disappointed with the fact that 90% of the game was solo and about 10% (that being PvP) was team based. It was literally pointless to be in a guild and the enchant/upgrade system was absolutely one of the worst approaches I have ever seen.

    Aion just.... well let's see. They nerfed my class. HARD. (Gladiator) My 2 self heals were put on the same cooldown (destroying my effectiveness in pvp). They removed the strongest spear in the game completely. It was a lvl47 spear called Zapiels Spear with a tiny drop rate and heavily farmed boss location that only spawned a couple of times a day. Along with this, they merged servers because some were dead but at the same time they allowed free server swaps so my server went from being 300 active elyos vs 700 active asmos to 250 active elyos vs 2000 active asmos. We were horribly overwhelmed.

    Tera's level expansion was cancer. The 2 race based classes (Reaper and Brawler) were both given to female characters. What the shit. Female human brawler when the Amani and the stone people were literally built for melee.

    SWG.... combat patch. Class reduction (my 3 months of hard work to be a master bounty hunter was basically given to people for free when they had to reassign their levels. The gold sellers didn't help either. Absolute trash. Damn it Sony.
    For every game you've listed here as examples of poor leadership, I'm sure you could name just as many, if not more, of developers who have run successful games. 
  • I am a Blizzard fan and I agree with you. Same feeling of success here... with a twist: Intrepid guys are not afraid of going big. Go big or go home is really the philosophy here. I believe Blizzard has lost that touch and Intrepid has really the chance to step up and take the throne.
  • I really appreciate your faith and passion in this project, @Krojak. I wish I could blindly trust Intrepid as much as you do. I personally like their style, their ideas and the direction in which they are working. Alas, that's not enough to give me confidence that everything is going to be alright for sure.

    You ask me to bet, and indeed I'm betting. I am backing the project, and I am doing it with joy, since I want to help ideas like this one to become a reality, to concretely shape the future of MMORPG and how we think about online gaming. Personally, I'm not too worried about my money either: I am sure that I'm supporting a dream, more than purchasing a product, and I'm okay with that. Even if everything would eventually fail, I won't regret my choice. In my opinion, this kind of reward is worth the risk.

    Anyway, I don't agree with you, when you say that Intrepid should be trusted just because they gives us a good feeling. In my opinion, that's the worst stance we (as supporters) could maintain, if our goal is to see this project succeed. 

    Please, bear this in mind: the last thing I desire is to attack you, or to seem aggressive or opinionated. You are an amazing member of this community, helpful and caring, and you earned my respect. I am bringing my point to everyone's attention because I believe blind optimism may lead any project directly to its grave.
    I've already seen a smaller, but very promising game sink miserably, for reasons frightfully similar. The most faithful members of that community were just unshakably sure that everything was going to be alright. No choice from developers team could ever be wrong, since they were working with such dedication. This supporters were so certain in their belief, that all criticism got quietly ignored, left behind, mockingly commented.
    There's no reason to be afraid, everything is going to be alright!

    Unfortunately, the project failed. Ironically, some of reasons leading to that were extensively expressed on the forums, but ultimately left unheard. Needless to say that it was quite a shock for me and for many others, since we believed in the project with all our hearts. 

    This is why I cannot accept to just sit back, relax and enjoy a faithful wait.
    I'm not implying that I'm pessimist regard all this.
    I'm not saying things will inevitably fail.
    I'm not declaring that I have all the answers, that I'm right and everyone else is wrong. 
    My point is that this community should be vigilant, and highlight everything that may represent a danger for AoC. Things tends spontaneously to chaos, it is known. This is why criticism is so important: it can help Intrepid avoid derailing, due to reasons they ignore but that may be foreseen by someone among us.

    I try doing my best to make my voice be heard, disapproving when I feel compelled to, always in a constructive way. And I beg, with all my heart, all the most faithful member of this forum to do the same: don't let your affection towards the game prevent your rationality from analyze what's going on. Always try to look at AoC from a broader point of view, farther than your attached one, envisaging how every choice may influence its future. 

    Don't pity those who doubt these Jockeys, but try to understand them.
    For without their criticism, this dream will never be more than a dream.
  • Very well made post @Rhoqaro but to be fair to @Krojak, he's been around long enough to know what's what with Ashes and you do him a disservice in suggesting his enthusiasm stems from blindness. We all want the same thing here and you're absolutely right in that we must be the opposition to a certain degree and hold Steven and co accountable for the direction they take their game. There's no harm in enjoying the journey and supporting the troops. ;)  
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    You are right, @Kratz, it wasn't my intention to sound offensive by any mean. My bad, @Krojak, if I've crossed the line.

    I agree with your words, you guys heat the atmosphere in the forums to crazy levels with your passion, and I am deeply thankful to you veterans for that.
    I think that the balance among our different positions may be utterly positive, at least since discussion seems always calm and constructive here. You, as firm supportive strongholds on a side, and others such as myself on the other, buzzing bees always ready to bring everything into question.

    I'm sure it may work :)
  • Rhoqaro said:
    I'm sure it may work :)
    Hopefully my friend, between us all, we'll get what we've waited a damn long time for. ;)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    @Rhoqaro I can't speak for anyone else, but you made a good point in a clear polite way.

    And as much as I agree with Krojak, I also agree with you.

    Even though I am on-board the hype train all the way,  I still disagree with some of the things intrepid have gone about implementing things.... And they haven't seemed to have learned from prior mistakes....

    Though I haven't checked the wording recently on the summer campaign, when it first came up, they had gone back to calling the mounts, mounts again, rather than skins which there'd been that hooha about during ks.

    I am happy that I have and can discuss things with the team, but am also aware that there's a lot of important stuff staying unanswered...However....a lot more is getting answered than any other pre launch game I've been part of so far.

    I think the game should be great!

    I also think the Ashes community should hold intrepid to account and challenge them on issues they see.


  • Megs said:
    Just remember, most of the other mmos were built by corporations...

    This game is a small, almost 'family' run business.... Now whilst family businesses can fail just as much as anything else, they do normally have extraordinary ethics and strong core values.

    It's when they have to start focusing on making the shareholders happy that morals and things start slipping.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is ...
    If this doesn't come to anything, I get a guaranteed refund via ks.
    However, if this game does turn up, even if it lacks ongoing financial viability, it will almost definitely be the game that they've been describing.

    Which is personally, all I want. I want to live in that intrepid universe.
    Toot toot hype train is now departing from discussion central. :smiley:
    @Megs is right.  @GMSteven has flat out said, he doesn't have to answer to a publisher or a board.  Ashes is HIS passion project, HIS vision.  He is responsible for driving it and making it what we're all hoping it will be.  He doesn't have to cave to pressure from the money grabbers.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Blizzard and more so Activision with hand up Blizzard have not made an original IP since the mid 90's.

    You are not really getting a new intellectual property with Blizzard you are getting the polish.

    I am a rationalist and a realist.
    Intrepid Studios have convinced me to support the project more so than any other project of it's kind.

    However I have seen and experienced projects promising the same thing, only to flip flop into a limp husk of good intentions propped up by a handful of dedicated fans in denial.

    I already have a personal issue with a cash shop in a subscription based MMO, but that's my personal gripe and it was not enough to deter my funding support.

    I can't have the same blind faith in the genre like before. Intrepid has to earn my respect and not take it for granted and I will return the favor.

  • I agree ^^
  • I think its rational to disagree.

    Steven is not an experienced game maker and managing a project like an MMO takes significant experience. I could easily see this project going belly up.

    I however have optimism that he will surround himself with an experienced team and things can go on the right track given the right situation.
  • Zomnivore said:
    I think its rational to disagree.

    Steven is not an experienced game maker and managing a project like an MMO takes significant experience. I could easily see this project going belly up.

    I however have optimism that he will surround himself with an experienced team and things can go on the right track given the right situation.
    Must be a flash git
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Do I have to be the one to say it? Better funded more prominent IPs have tried and failed. Why would this particular one succeed simply on merit? A lot of practical technical logistical things have to go right for an MMO to succeed pre production. Let alone surviving post launch.

    To have healthy skepticism should be the default position.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Zomnivore said:
    Do I have to be the one to say it? Better funded more prominent IPs have tried and failed. Why would this particular one succeed simply on merit? A lot of practical technical logistical things have to go right for an MMO to succeed pre production. Let alone surviving post launch.
    The merits are the same merits that independent films or music productions can succeed well...  more streamlined operation, less "cooks in the kitchen," and a clear vision.

    Large studios may have many in the role of "producer" and often push for things that may contradict each other or go against the flow of production.  Why?  Many reasons.... ego, trying to justify their paycheck... or just too many people pushing for different things rather than for a unified clear vision. 

    Just because a project has a huge budget (like a larger studio might have) doesn't mean that all that money gets funneled into the end result of that project.  Usually the more money that's involved, the more ways people try to allocate portions of it into all sorts of different things in the business.  Also, when more money is involved, there's less of a drive to be efficient with it in general.  

    With a smaller production such as Intrepid here, you get a unified vision, efficient production (because they can't afford not to be), and less people up the chain (the suits) that can interfere with what you are trying to create. 

    I trust a independent studio to accomplish something special more than any other kind of studio, these days. 
  • Zomnivore said:
    Do I have to be the one to say it? Better funded more prominent IPs have tried and failed. Why would this particular one succeed simply on merit? A lot of practical technical logistical things have to go right for an MMO to succeed pre production. Let alone surviving post launch.
    The merits are the same merits that independent films or music productions can succeed well...  more streamlined operation, less "cooks in the kitchen," and a clear vision.

    Large studios may have many in the role of "producer" and often push for things that may contradict each other or go against the flow of production.  Why?  Many reasons.... ego, trying to justify their paycheck... or just two many people pushing for different things rather than for a unified clear vision. 

    Just because a project has a huge budget (like a larger studio might have) doesn't mean that all that money gets funneled into the end result of that project.  Usually the more money thats involved, the more ways people try to allocate portions of it into all sorts of different things in the business.  Also, when more money is involved, there's less of a drive to be efficient with it in general.  

    With a smaller production such as Intrepid here, you get a unified vision, efficient production (because they can't afford not to be), and less people up the chain (the suits) that can interfere with what you are trying to create. 

    I trust a independent studio to accomplish something special more than any other kind of studio, these days. 
    Need to agree intensifies
  • @Rumbleforge I like what you said, even though I couldn't understand it. Cheers :tongue:
  • Whocando said:
    Blizzard and more so Activision with hand up Blizzard have not made an original IP since the mid 90's.
    Incomplete sentence. Hand up what?? ;)
  • lexmax said:
    @Rumbleforge I like what you said, even though I couldn't understand it. Cheers :tongue:
    I tried to cover my points without making to big of a wall of text... maybe I ended up being too vague in my effort.  Hah!
  • lexmax said:
    Whocando said:
    Blizzard and more so Activision with hand up Blizzard have not made an original IP since the mid 90's.
    Incomplete sentence. Hand up what?? ;)
    You're just playing dumb.  :P
  • nagash said:

    Need to agree intensifies
    Too bad they took away the "Agree" button, huh? 
  • @lexmax free to interpret as you will.
  • Krojak said:
    Have faith in this passionate dev team to see this project through. People such as you may fall off the bandwagon early, and that's ok. That's a guarantee to happen. However I have a good feeling that 5 years from now, this game will still be kicking along.
    Yes. So many "Yes"s, lol!
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