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CLASS Skills seem to be DUMBED-DOWN

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Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    I listened to the video 3x.  Had mixed feelings about the cleric.  I have realized  I am seeing it though  a narrow vision  as none of us have the entire picture yet.  
    What I heard was interesting and a bit different then any cleric/healer I have ever played in my 20 years.  But again, my knowledge is limited atm.  We don't know yet of other basic skills or how they will be implemented.  Nor do we know what secondary choices we will have to augment them.  One thing is for sure, this game is going to be different in many ways.  I like that we will be able to more or less customize our main roles which inmho is going to make for more unique game play and styles.
    I think it is way too early to say that any role is dumbed down.


  • a6point6 said:
    Can't wait till late 2018 where i can finally prey on weak souls.. ^^

    And comeon, we all know all classes will choose cleric as there 2nd.
    I won't be.  I'm VERY interested in the Predator (Rogue/Ranger).  I see much about it that is appealing to me.
  • I think we are delving into territory of asking questions we don't have enough information to answer yet. Like:

    -How exactly will augments work, and what kinds of spell augments we have in game.
    -What will combat really be like?
    -Who took the cookies in the cookie jar?
    -Why does Iggy Azalea look like an alien?
    -Will I ever find love?

  • I think I have 4 alts planned already and none of them have Cleric as an archetype.
    I suppose Cleric sub-class is a very logical choice for those focused on PvP combat.
    I'm more interested in RP than PvP combat.
    I'm especially looking forward to playing a Py'Rai Mage/Tank Martyr who augments Fireball with Taunt.
  • I'm interested in PvP and I don't plan on cleric sub role.

    I think I'm gonna go Archer / Rogue for stealthiness.
  • I think the term "Dumbed-down " was harsh but also accurate. Most likely they are not planning on bringing the most complex version of the class to PAX when Alpha has not even really started. The class is a simple, scenario crafted, version of the Cleric.

    As @Dolphin has pointed out they clearly laid the groundwork for how they are approaching the Cleric. This is a simplified, specifically crafted version of that class. However, I do not think anyone was saying let's not debate this because it's just PAX, I read it more as let's not say it's dumbed-down because we only heard about one build.

    Everyone here seems super eager and excited to discuss almost any and all theorycraft. Most are trying to do it from a positive point of view.
  • Much has already been mentioned but I'll add this aswell :)

    1. There might be a spell book but you'll have fixed amount of skills on your bar. What that magic number is is still being decided.
    2. Skill augmentations will give those primary skills a flavour of the secondary archetype, you'll be able to choose from a variety of augments per a skill.
    3. Your weapon will give a special skill.
    4. You'll have an ultimate skill.
    5. You will also have utility skills.
    6. Not to mention that racial traits and religion may have influence on augments too.

    You may have few skill in comparison to other mmos but it'll be likely that your skills will be unique or // personal to your playstyle.

    The classes we have been shown for PAX are a hint at what each class can be and imo they sound like what their class should be? They are un augmented or a double down on the primary class.

    I think its  incredible that they are allowing players to experience a pre alpha -still in development game - and you can pve and pvp!

    im jealous of all those going to PAX xD
  • Karthos said:
    I think we are delving into territory of asking questions we don't have enough information to answer yet. Like:

    -How exactly will augments work, and what kinds of spell augments we have in game.
    -What will combat really be like?
    -Who took the cookies in the cookie jar?
    -Why does Iggy Azalea look like an alien?
    -Will I ever find love?


    I can answer for the 3rd, 4th and 5th question.
    Cookie Monster,(obviously)
    Too much eyeliner makes her eyes look bigger and slantier
    No

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    VECNA said:
    After watching the TWITCH Stream on June/30 it seems as though CLASS Skills are DUMBED-DOWN.

    I'l explain, WOW use to have a GREAT 3 Tier Tech-Tree for your CLASS and you could go down one of the tiers and specialize in it or have a little bit of everything. Now WOW no longer gives you free reign with your the choices for you CLASS and how you use them are really DUMBED-DOWN. That's the reason I quit WOW.

    After Steven finished explaining the CLERIC Class I was really underwhelmed. The CLERIC felt DUMBED-DOWN. I can understand if it was under one Tech-Tree that gives you both healing and damage, but I think there needs to be 3 Tech-Trees to go down like in WOW. One that focuses on HEALING, One that focuses on DAMAGE, and One that focuses on a mix of HEALING & DAMAGE but not as effective as the other two yet would make you more versatile. The CLERIC that Steven explained fits in the HEALING & DAMAGE / Versatile SPEC.

    I planned on making a HEALING / CLERIC (Cleric / Cleric) God of Healing, but the way they described the CLERIC isn't the play-style that I want.

    We NEED a 3 Tier Tech-Tree to really have A-LOT of CUSTOMIZATION for our CLASS.
    Hello,

    I see you are infact in quite some distress over this issue. I will respond to your dilemma with a real life story, and perhaps it will have some bearing on your current situation.

    I have a Niece, who had a great distain for Carrots, would not eat a single one. They disliked the taste. In a way thats fine, not everyone likes everything. However one day I tried to convince her to try some of my home made carrot soup. The carrots were roasted, and the soup was seasoned and flavoured with corriander and ginger. The base taste was still carrot, it was designed and proccessed in another way, but still carrot flavoured. She wouldnt try it at first, but I eventually convinced her to try a spoonful, and she liked it. It was still carrot flavoured, but she enjoyed the soup. Now her mother makes it for her regularly.

    You might not like something due to the way it sounds, looks or what you might think it tastes like, but you cant really judge something until you taste it for yourself.

    My suggestion would be to play/use/test what they currently offer, and if what they have on offer AFTER you have tried it isnt to your liking and you think It could be improved, then would be the time for constructive, and rational feedback.

    One only needs to look towards "A Certain Guildleader" for an example of irrational, overzealous feedback that effected a game prematurely. Leader of "A Certain Large Gaming community" PUSHED Daum in BDO to make sure that we didnt get a megaserver in EU/NA, as he believe it would cause the PvP to die rapidly. Infact quite the opposite happened, lack of people on servers, because the community was divided by 3 in each region, caused the PvP to die out rapidly. Once the 3 servers were reunited as one in the form of a Megaserver, PvP was alive and well again.

    As with any Feedback, its only truely valid after you have tested the product in question, after all if i wrote a book, I wouldnt personally accept feedback from someone who never read it. 

    Just a wall of text for thought! 




  • Just a wall of text for thought!


    My eyes are bleeding make him stop writing..... Kidding
  • VECNA said:
    After watching the TWITCH Stream on June/30 it seems as though CLASS Skills are DUMBED-DOWN.

    I'l explain, WOW use to have a GREAT 3 Tier Tech-Tree for your CLASS and you could go down one of the tiers and specialize in it or have a little bit of everything. Now WOW no longer gives you free reign with your the choices for you CLASS and how you use them are really DUMBED-DOWN. That's the reason I quit WOW.

    After Steven finished explaining the CLERIC Class I was really underwhelmed. The CLERIC felt DUMBED-DOWN. I can understand if it was under one Tech-Tree that gives you both healing and damage, but I think there needs to be 3 Tech-Trees to go down like in WOW. One that focuses on HEALING, One that focuses on DAMAGE, and One that focuses on a mix of HEALING & DAMAGE but not as effective as the other two yet would make you more versatile. The CLERIC that Steven explained fits in the HEALING & DAMAGE / Versatile SPEC.

    I planned on making a HEALING / CLERIC (Cleric / Cleric) God of Healing, but the way they described the CLERIC isn't the play-style that I want.

    We NEED a 3 Tier Tech-Tree to really have A-LOT of CUSTOMIZATION for our CLASS.
    Hello,

    I see you are infact in quite some distress over this issue. I will respond to your dilemma with a real life story, and perhaps it will have some bearing on your current situation.

    I have a Niece, who had a great distain for Carrots, would not eat a single one. They disliked the taste. In a way thats fine, not everyone likes everything. However one day I tried to convince her to try some of my home made carrot soup. The carrots were roasted, and the soup was seasoned and flavoured with corriander and ginger. The base taste was still carrot, it was designed and proccessed in another way, but still carrot flavoured. She wouldnt try it at first, but I eventually convinced her to try a spoonful, and she liked it. It was still carrot flavoured, but she enjoyed the soup. Now her mother makes it for her regularly.

    You might not like something due to the way it sounds, looks or what you might think it tastes like, but you cant really judge something until you taste it for yourself.

    My suggestion would be to play/use/test what they currently offer, and if what they have on offer AFTER you have tried it isnt to your liking and you think It could be improved, then would be the time for constructive, and rational feedback.

    One only needs to look towards "A Certain Guildleader" for an example of irrational, overzealous feedback that effected a game prematurely. Leader of "A Certain Large Gaming community" PUSHED Daum in BDO to make sure that we didnt get a megaserver in EU/NA, as he believe it would cause the PvP to die rapidly. Infact quite the opposite happened, lack of people on servers, because the community was divided by 3 in each region, caused the PvP to die out rapidly. Once the 3 servers were reunited as one in the form of a Megaserver, PvP was alive and well again.

    As with any Feedback, its only truely valid after you have tested the product in question, after all if i wrote a book, I wouldnt personally accept feedback from someone who never read it. 

    Just a wall of text for thought! 




    Intrepid can use this comment as the Wall Skill of Tanks in PAX.

    Tank creates a wall from the ground, but wait what is it?! It's the comment of @DeathsProxy

    By the way, I started to crave for carrot soup, because you explained it so appetent, 
  • Dolphin said:
    *snip!*


    Intrepid can use this comment as the Wall Skill of Tanks in PAX.

    Tank creates a wall from the ground, but wait what is it?! It's the comment of @DeathsProxy

    By the way, I started to crave for carrot soup, because you explained it so appetent, 
    Yeah, might actually go make some!!!
  • Dolphin said:
    *snip!*


    Intrepid can use this comment as the Wall Skill of Tanks in PAX.

    Tank creates a wall from the ground, but wait what is it?! It's the comment of @DeathsProxy

    By the way, I started to crave for carrot soup, because you explained it so appetent, 
    Yeah, might actually go make some!!!
    Ok we need to start a recipe thread!  That carrot soup sounds scrumptious!  
  • In my opinion GW2 has a decent PVP combat system and only has 5 attack buttons.  The skill is using them at the right times.  Also, AoC placed a lot of importance on the combos.  Like everyone else said, these skills are just to give pax goers a FEEL for the classes, not a final load out demonstration.  
  • This is why I play summoners I just let people bloody their hands for me while I drink tea 
  • nagash said:
    This is why I play summoners I just let people bloody their hands for me while I drink tea 
    well, who knows how active the summoner has to be. go to the enemy and rip a skeleton out of his body to fight for you?
  • They told some skills, not really a skill tree right or did i miss something. Cause they talked about that sometimes that they will have a skill tree and a limited use of spells throughout your actionbar.
  • It sounded more to me that the skills they mentioned for the classes were the ones they had done and were ready for people to see and not in anyway an indication of what any of the classes would look like.

    OP is just jumping the gun in complaining about what the vision of the class is when all we have been allowed to do so far is peek through a keyhole.
    I'm wasn't jumping the gun, I was giving my opinion on how I saw the class skills as they were presented to us thus far
  • @Fleelix Yes, I think you have a skill tree that you progress through to enhance add flavour and give variety.  You won't have level 1 skills that you replace with level 10 skills which you replace with level 20 skills. Instead you get level 1 skill "charge" level 10 you get some more options charge with knockdown or charge with additional damage or charge with armour break,  at level 20 you will get additional options depending on what you did at 10 and so on obviously if you take second class this will also affect your options but effectively you only have one charge that evolves.  That is how I interpret the system they are describing. Did that make sense? It did in my head.
  • Hmm...I think speculation is healthy.... 

    If you have any concerns, possibly wait a little bit of time to give the devs a chance to put forward a clearer definition of the way that their going though?

    There's so much stuff..SO SOOOOOO much stuff we don't know about classes and how anythings going to affect them to be able to judge anything yet.

    Like planning a journey when you don't know if it's going to be to France or Canada, sure you can do it, but you probably shouldn't :)

  • Megs said:
    Hmm...I think speculation is healthy.... 

    If you have any concerns, possibly wait a little bit of time to give the devs a chance to put forward a clearer definition of the way that their going though?

    There's so much stuff..SO SOOOOOO much stuff we don't know about classes and how anythings going to affect them to be able to judge anything yet.

    Like planning a journey when you don't know if it's going to be to France or Canada, sure you can do it, but you probably shouldn't :)

    Actually at this stage is more like planning a trip to colonize a new planet, with theories that the planet exsists, but you dont really know if its there or its not. 

    Better to wait for confirmed, full information before taking off, so you could plan accordingly.
  • The class concept seems dumbed down but character progression "trees" or "traits" are intended to add depth to the effectiveness and overall function of each class. Steven talked about the class skills in a static way without going in depth on how character progression paths buff,nerf, on even change those skills.
  • I can't see how its dumbed down unless it was better in the first place really your comparing 2 different games. You don't even know how it will play like at the moment. 
  • I've seen a few people worry about Clerics not being the typical "heal only" type class. Personally when I heard the skills, it made me be like hmm I may want to play this. One thing that would always draw me back from playing a healer was the lack of also dealing damage (I dont expect to hit as hard as a Mage) but enough where not all my skills are just plain heals. I think it is interesting besides healing you do some damage within the same skill.

    I initially thought of playing Mage but for some reason I found was uninterested as they were reading the Mage skills out.  =/
  • VECNA said:
    " After watching the TWITCH Stream on June/30 it seems as though CLASS Skills are DUMBED-DOWN.

    I'l explain, WOW use to have a GREAT 3 Tier Tech-Tree for your CLASS and you could go down one of the tiers and specialize in it or have a little bit of everything. Now WOW no longer gives you free reign with your the choices for you CLASS and how you use them are really DUMBED-DOWN. That's the reason I quit WOW.

    After Steven finished explaining the CLERIC Class I was really underwhelmed. The CLERIC felt DUMBED-DOWN. I can understand if it was under one Tech-Tree that gives you both healing and damage, but I think there needs to be 3 Tech-Trees to go down like in WOW. One that focuses on HEALING, One that focuses on DAMAGE, and One that focuses on a mix of HEALING & DAMAGE but not as effective as the other two yet would make you more versatile. The CLERIC that Steven explained fits in the HEALING & DAMAGE / Versatile SPEC.

    I planned on making a HEALING / CLERIC (Cleric / Cleric) God of Healing, but the way they described the CLERIC isn't the play-style that I want.

    We NEED a 3 Tier Tech-Tree to really have A-LOT of CUSTOMIZATION for our CLASS. "
    Idk about you, but i do not want another WoW Clone. And yes - i know exactly what this ... " 3 Tier-Tech Tree " is. I know because SWTOR used the same thing.

    And I'd prefer not to have that. Rather, I'd like more Freedom of that.
  • Sozia said:
    " ...  could be no tree maybe it could be a bunny path. No reason to limit it to an idea that has already been used over and over again. "
    I like how you think  ;)
  • LunarSky said:

    " ... I don't think the game needs trees like WoW. The variety that is being planned through augments (race,sub class, religion, social group) and via weapon skills should be sufficient to create variety in the community and allow for a almost completely pure healer class. 

    I, like others, believe this is just a sample of their skills for a PAX build that is playable. "
    I'm still dreaming about the Ranger/Cleric - being able to launch a "Healing Arrow" at my Allies from afar  :p
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